3 point turn cop on trial

**peasea** · 25th March 2009, 14:20

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

how could he tell that the bikes coming towards him were going at 125kph? really hard to judge speed of an object coming straight towards you I reckon, plus he would have had bugger all time to make the call.

Have a read of the link I just posted, he's told a Sgt one thing and McGurk another, he's making shit up as he goes along I'd say.

Nothing unusual.

**LBD** · 25th March 2009, 15:29

Originally Posted by Winston001

Just to clarify something, a police officer can allege excessive speed on the basis of his own judgement as a law enforcement officer. The actual speed can only be estimated so the charge is either exceeding the speed limit or possibly driving at a dangerous speed.

.

From experience when you are in a position of iminent danger and about to be involved in an inevitable accident, time slows, judgment is distorted etc,
In this case if you couple that with the officer being occupied with his turning manouver...I would say his judgment of the speed of the bikes would have been very distorted.

**mdnzz** · 25th March 2009, 16:41

Originally Posted by PirateJafa

You do recall that by law you must be able to stop within the visible distance?

Not that I'm defending the ex-cop in any way, shape or form, but it will be something interesting to bear in mind as the case goes to court.

Yes I am well aware of this law and also the law that states that anytime you pull out onto a road or do any type of maneuver on the road you are responsible in making sure that no other road users are put in danger.
Might not be those exact words but you get the gist.

If you can see someone traveling towards you what frame of mind would you have to be in too turn in front of them? Especially if you have just 'judged' them to be speeding towards you.

There has for the last 30 years in this country a plague of people not accepting their responsibilities, stepping up to plate and apologizing when they are wrong or generally having any empathy for their fellow human.

This is nothing about lefties, pc tree huggers or anything else, just a simple observation of how our country has gone.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 25th March 2009, 16:49

this is OT but kind of relevant.

Who is paying for this man's (doubtless competent) defence? Does the Po-lice* trade union (sorry, Police association) step in and do it, or is he putting hand to pocket?

Signed, Curious of Christchurch

*Ive been watching "Cops" and Po- and -lice are two separate and distinct syllables such as when used in this context: "Po lice, Git awn tha graaaaaahhhhnd"! shouted by a large armed man with his angry face on.

**peasea** · 25th March 2009, 16:50

[QUOTE=mdnzz;1997697]
If you can see someone traveling towards you what frame of mind would you have to be in too turn in front of them? QUOTE]

The 'money-extraction' frame of mind.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 25th March 2009, 16:50

Originally Posted by mdnzz

Yes I am well aware of this law and also the law that states that anytime you pull out onto a road or do any type of maneuver on the road you are responsible in making sure that no other road users are put in danger.
Might not be those exact words but you get the gist.

If you can see someone traveling towards you what frame of mind would you have to be in too turn in front of them? Especially if you have just 'judged' them to be speeding towards you.

There has for the last 30 years in this country a plague of people not accepting their responsibilities, stepping up to plate and apologizing when they are wrong or generally having any empathy for their fellow human.

This is nothing about lefties, pc tree huggers or anything else, just a simple observation of how our country has gone.

but the sensible advice to anyone accused of a crime (for that is what this is) is "say nothing, admit nothing, exercise your right to silence and deny deny deny".

**98tls** · 25th March 2009, 16:51

Originally Posted by mdnzz

Yes I am well aware of this law and also the law that states that anytime you pull out onto a road or do any type of maneuver on the road you are responsible in making sure that no other road users are put in danger.
Might not be those exact words but you get the gist.

If you can see someone traveling towards you what frame of mind would you have to be in too turn in front of them? Especially if you have just 'judged' them to be speeding towards you.

There has for the last 30 years in this country a plague of people not accepting their responsibilities, stepping up to plate and apologizing when they are wrong or generally having any empathy for their fellow human.

This is nothing about lefties, pc tree huggers or anything else, just a simple observation of how our country has gone.

Then again theres no bloody law thats had them accountable for there actions,my Cousin Julie riding a GN250 back to the Air force base in Blenhiem had an old coot make a right hand turn into an orchard in front of her on a straight a few kms long resulting in her death,the old bastard came up with the usual "i just didnt see her " excuse and in court received sweet fuck all for his actions,possibly because he was an old coot,go figure methinks thats why he fucked up,not an excuse.

**Katman** · 25th March 2009, 17:11

There's a big difference between being 'blameless' and knowing that your actions contributed to an eventual outcome.

What is careless?

Doing a U-turn in a questionable location or travelling at such a speed that you couldn't stop if you were confronted with a tree that had fallen onto the road in your path?

**Badjelly** · 25th March 2009, 17:21

Originally Posted by Katman

...What is careless?

Doing a U-turn in a questionable location or travelling at such a speed that you couldn't stop if you were confronted with a tree that had fallen onto the road in your path?

Both of those are careless in my opinion. Or arguably reckless.

**cheshirecat** · 25th March 2009, 18:09

Originally Posted by MD

I think some of you have missed this old thread on the crash.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...=62178&page=10

I'm appearing at the trial so can't comment but it should be wrapped up by Friday.

One things for sure the past few days have greatly increased my respect for the Police. Some really nice people work there. Seeing the low-life good-for -absolutely-nothing scumbags they have to deal with all hanging around the courthouse. It just amazes me how Cops stay human in the face of such trash, I'd go postal.

Nice comment - good luck

**JimO** · 25th March 2009, 18:30

Originally Posted by 98tls

Then again theres no bloody law thats had them accountable for there actions,my Cousin Julie riding a GN250 back to the Air force base in Blenhiem had an old coot make a right hand turn into an orchard in front of her on a straight a few kms long resulting in her death,the old bastard came up with the usual "i just didnt see her " excuse and in court received sweet fuck all for his actions,possibly because he was an old coot,go figure methinks thats why he fucked up,not an excuse.

one of my boys got knocked off his bike last year by a old coot going through a comp stop, he said i didnt see him he must have been speeding, despite several witnesses saying he wasnt speeding the cop that turned up at the hospital asked him 5 times how fast were you going trying to catch him out

**mdnzz** · 25th March 2009, 20:03

Originally Posted by 98tls

Then again theres no bloody law thats had them accountable for there actions,my Cousin Julie riding a GN250 back to the Air force base in Blenhiem had an old coot make a right hand turn into an orchard in front of her on a straight a few kms long resulting in her death,the old bastard came up with the usual "i just didnt see her " excuse and in court received sweet fuck all for his actions,possibly because he was an old coot,go figure methinks thats why he fucked up,not an excuse.

I had an 'old coot' that was parked at a red suddenly drive thru at me while I was traveling on the green. This was right in front of a cop.
I stopped the car I was in an gave him the dressing down of his life regardless of the fact he towered over me.
Both him and the cop were left staggered, at anytime you are in a killing machine your awareness better be 200%. I'm sorry I didn't see you doesn't cut it, if you cannot see then get the f**K off the road.

**Winston001** · 25th March 2009, 20:12

Originally Posted by Marmoot

If he hadn't seen the bikes before/while doing the U-turn, how could he have estimated their speed.

Yet if he had seen the bikes and had guessed the speed correctly to be excessive, why had he turned in front of them?

Who is the prosecutor and why this question hadn't been asked? Incompetence? How can I email this to him/her?

Be cool, its not all over yet. The prosecutor will be very aware of this statement. If the defendant doesn't give evidence, then he can't be asked about this but his statement can be challenged.

What has happened here is a cop has made a mistake. He's u-turned thinking he could see clear road but got caught out. He has naturally assumed (being a cop) that the two bikes were speeding and keeps to that story because that's his excuse. He probably honestly believes it but the court may not accept it.

We expect police officers to be honourable and have integrity. If they make a mistake, fess up. Like the cop in the Bain trial who says he momentarily in Bain's presence, moved the glasses. He didn't have to admit that. Good on him.