3 point turn cop on trial

[MSTRS:Me]

This is what the Road Code says...
Making a U-turn

You are normally allowed to make U-turns, as long as the road is clear in both directions and it is safe to do so. Make sure you have enough room to complete the turn and don't create a hazard for oncoming vehicles.

You aren't allowed to make U-turns if a 'No U-turn' sign is displayed.

[Grahameeboy]

[pedant mode] 62mph = 100kph [pedant mode]

So assuming all is 'normal' we can be reasonably sure that we can stop from 100kph in about 100m. Both riders who hit the cop car say they weren't speeding (at least at that point). Bridgeman says they were. We can understand that if they were within that 100/120m zone when the cop pulled across the road, then he never saw them, they 'came out of nowhere', therefore it might look as though they were speeding (to him). We do not know what the SCU boys findings are yet. So at this stage it is he said/she said.

No.....84m....was my post not within the distance you could see.....

[Grahameeboy]

This is what the Road Code says...
Making a U-turn

You are normally allowed to make U-turns, as long as the road is clear in both directions and it is safe to do so. Make sure you have enough room to complete the turn and don't create a hazard for oncoming vehicles.

You aren't allowed to make U-turns if a 'No U-turn' sign is displayed.

I have often said that following the rooad rules is dangerous.

As far as I am concerned doing a u-turn should be a no brainer as there is a high risk as you have to look each way and every where and at the same time doing a sharp maneouvre which involves blocking 2/3rd's of the road at a relatively slow speed.

Safer to find a side road or even a petrol station where you can turn around.

Bit like the 3 sec indicator rule...

[Grahameeboy]

My 2c:


As we all know motorcycles can't brake hard while cornering - the front never has enough grip in reserve after the cornering load.

Debatable....you can brake on a bend by straightening up and then braking...ie you head for side or centre line, brake hard and then crank it over again...

[MSTRS:Me]

No.....84m....was my post not within the distance you could see.....

That was your post (braking distance)...I'd assume that was based on the figures for a car. In any case, braking distance increases in a corner. It is one thing to slow down because you are a little hot, quite another to actually stop. The problem here is that these 2 bikers saw the car across the lane, maybe nose into the rough, they braked and headed for the gap behind the car, at which point the unaware cop chucks it into reverse and moves into the 'gap'...now too late for them to change line, so heavy last minute braking until THUD!!!
The SCU guys will have all the evidence of who was doing what and where. I think one bike hit just behind the front wheel arch and the other one hit the rear wheel. That bit does have me wondering, unless the 2 were 1/2 wheeling

[Nasty]

This is what the Road Code says...
Making a U-turn

You are normally allowed to make U-turns, as long as the road is clear in both directions and it is safe to do so. Make sure you have enough room to complete the turn and don't create a hazard for oncoming vehicles.

You aren't allowed to make U-turns if a 'No U-turn' sign is displayed.

He obviously caused one huge bloody hazard .. cos two bikes hit him! What a crock!

[BMWST?]

Any an all evidence against the motorcyclists will certainly be presented in court, however a spanner here.

What if they were speeding?

Does that exonerate the driver from failing to ensure the safety of other road users during the course of his
maneuver? For not thinking that at any second another road user could round that blind corner?

Surely at the days end people are responsible for their own actions.

If the bikers were speeding the prosecute them for that, but still prosecute the driver for his inattention that contributed to the accident.

+++++++++(plus hoowever many that is)

[Grahameeboy]

That was your post (braking distance)...I'd assume that was based on the figures for a car. In any case, braking distance increases in a corner. It is one thing to slow down because you are a little hot, quite another to actually stop. The problem here is that these 2 bikers saw the car across the lane, maybe nose into the rough, they braked and headed for the gap behind the car, at which point the unaware cop chucks it into reverse and moves into the 'gap'...now too late for them to change line, so heavy last minute braking until THUD!!!
The SCU guys will have all the evidence of who was doing what and where. And I can't see how the cop is not at fault.

Was just being funny in that post...however, a bike should pull up quicker than a car given the weight advantage....so I stick to my point and "walk away"

[MSTRS:Me]

....so I stick to my point and "walk away"

Keep practising...30 Seconds might be looking for a new presenter....

[BMWST?]

There's a big difference between being 'blameless' and knowing that your actions contributed to an eventual outcome.

What is careless?

Doing a U-turn in a questionable location or travelling at such a speed that you couldn't stop if you were confronted with a tree that had fallen onto the road in your path?

Dont confuse one with the other.If they were speeding it doesnt make his actions right.I am sure you have been to the Buller gorge.To attempt a u turn or three point turn is absolutely stuoid(and as it turned out dangerous)I am sure part of the training they get is NOT to place other road users in danger.

[MSTRS:Me]

This is what the Road Code says...
Making a U-turn

You are normally allowed to make U-turns, as long as the road is clear in both directions and it is safe to do so. Make sure you have enough room to complete the turn and don't create a hazard for oncoming vehicles.

You aren't allowed to make U-turns if a 'No U-turn' sign is displayed.

The big however though, is that this cop was not u-turning. He was having to do a 3 point turn because the road was too narrow for the poxy car's turning circle. A 3 point turn necessitates at least 2 stopped parts to it.

[BMWST?]

http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedi...ngDistance.pdf

here are some motorycle stopping distances,on a dry road a vfr 800 can stop in 71-72 metres FROM 128KPH.

[Grahameeboy]

Dont confuse one with the other.If they were speeding it doesnt make his actions right.I am sure you have been to the Buller gorge.To attempt a u turn or three point turn is absolutely stuoid(and as it turned out dangerous)I am sure part of the training they get is NOT to place other road users in danger.

At the end of the day this was an unfortunate accident....cop was responding to a crime so in his mind he did not want to let the offence go...probably did check, saw nothing and blah blah.

Guys on bikes were probably doing 100kph or more...at this speed they would have covered 28 meters per 10 seconds so in almost the blink of an eyelid they would have been in view very quickly.

To be fair, the bikers would not have expected a car to be doing a u turn...at most a slow vehicle..maybe an animal so yes you could say that the cop should have considered the hazard over the guy speeding...which highlights the dangers of Police pursuits where adrenalin rather than the Brain tends to kick in.

[neels]

I'm sure that I've read somewhere that the skid marks from the motorcycle were about 45m long, but can't remember where I read it. Given that at 100kmh you are travelling 28m/s, 1.5 seconds of braking from 100 when presented with a stationary object blocking the road wouldn't seem unreasonable. I'm sure you could lose a couple of seconds in coming off a corner and reaction time before braking.

I have however escaped a careless driving charge when I had an accident doing a u-turn as there was some debate about the speed that the other car was travelling at, I guess the police didn't charge me as they thought that may be enough to get me off. Interesting to see if a jury thinks the same way.

[ynot slow]

Skimmed over this,but as said doing U turn,make sure all is clear,but with pursuit happening,the cop can accelerate the turn,something we can't do for losing the car with boy racer traction rules.The onus on the cop is he can do a U turn quicker than normal traffic drivers due to the no loss of traction legislation not applying to them in pursuit,so obviously he thought yep they are close,but if I accelerate I'll beat them,then he stuffed the turn up.