Choosing parenthood - Women vs men

[trump-lady]

IUD 30 dollars last 5 years. Condoms to stop catching eww nasties and spermacide to make sure. I dont beleive its anyone elses responsibility but mine. My body my life.

I will never get pregnant to keep a man and I am 32 and seen it rampant all over New Zealand. Why would ya?


Men pick your women better, talk about this to your partners because theres to many dam kids out there "lost" cause of this stuff or being raised in traped relationships that have no love.

One thing I dont understand is that WTF in this day and age isnt there something for men! WTF

Crazy

[Hans]

Yep, you are right. How many guys do we know that would rather buck the condom to feel the sensation rather than wear it for the extra protection? (Based on a woman also taking the pill.)

I know many, many, many.

[fire eyes]

OK, I confess I was watching daytime TV, Dr. Phil to be precise. The show today was about men who have fathered children and wanted to opt out of taking any part in the child's life and/or paying child support. Their argument was that they made every effort to ensure a child was not created. They'd also made it clear to their partner beforehand that they didn't want to be a father and therefore they were under no obligation. They pointed out that no-one forces women to become parents against their will as they have the option of termination or adopting out (in many societies at least). Why should men be forced to take responsibility if women aren't?

I'd never really looked at it this way, and they do have a point. It's quite a double standard in many respects.

Thoughts?

In that respect .. I can understand the said fathers decision to opt out .. especially if they have made 'every effort' .. Surprises me though about the term 'responsibility' ... if not to father a child .. would you not have a vasectomy???

Great thread by the way .. gets the mind ticking ..



This is really making me think.

[reofix]

the problem is daytime tv.. the solution is ... a life!

[MsKABC]

In that respect .. I can understand the said fathers decision to opt out .. especially if they have made 'every effort' .. Surprises me though about the term 'responsibility' ... if not to father a child .. would you not have a vasectomy???

Great thread by the way .. gets the mind ticking ..



This is really making me think.

Having pondered it a bit more and read the responses, my position is that if a bloke makes it very clear that he doesn't want to father a child, uses contraception, and warns his partner that if she falls pregnant then he will have no part of it (thus she can take her chances by sleeping with him), then maybe he has a moral/ethical get out of jail free card. He would have trouble proving a verbal contract like that in court though, wouldn't he?

[fire eyes]

Having pondered it a bit more and read the responses, my position is that if a bloke makes it very clear that he doesn't want to father a child, uses contraception, and warns his partner that if she falls pregnant then he will have no part of it (thus she can take her chances by sleeping with him), then maybe he has a moral/ethical get out of jail free card. He would have trouble proving a verbal contract like that in court though, wouldn't he?

I can agree with some of that. If he has taken every precaution and his partner agrees .. and his partner at the time still falls pregnant .. why is it her responsibility to shoulder the burden of dealing with the child.

Decisions made does not exempt one from accountability especially when you are a participant, upon conception .. the rules previously agreed no longer apply in my book.

If a man is totally against having children ... then a vasectomy or no sex at all would be the obvious course of action to take.

[gatch]

Girl says to me shes on the pill, that means she doesn't want the babies, for me this is great, no-one LIKES condoms. If however by accident she did fall pregnant I would suck it up and do the decent thing. Because I could have done more to try prevent this. It couldn't be good for a kid to find out Daddy doesn't love you cause you were an accident.

If however there was deceit involved it would be made very clear that my money will stay in my pocket, you can't lie about this kind of shit when there is a whole other life that hasn't properly started to consider.

I really wish there was a viable male-contraceptive, it would be very difficult then for guys to back out of fatherhood if they hadn't "been on the pill" so to speak. That and it would cut the chances of a woman trying the old "keep a nigger baby" trick.

Come onnnn science.

[R1madness]

I have a son and 2 step daughters and dont want any more kids. I had a vas 3 years ago. Mostly pain free and easy. Problem solved. But i am 41 not 21. A 21 year old guy cant get the snip (at most places) because it is not fair to them. Just because they say they dont want kids (ever) now doesnt mean they wont change their mind in 10 years time. So no the snip is not always an option. I know lots of guys that have been trapped into an unhappy relationship because she "forgot" to take the pill (for about 3 months while secretly flushing them down the toilet one every night). They stay for about 6 years then think screw it i would rather pay than put up with the crap any more. And pay they do..... usually losing the house and everything in it to her, along with the car, the dog, and their dignity as well. Then they have to pay til the kid(s) are 18.
A true dad will pay and not care or argue with the amount that is taken by the government but a man that has been tricked will take every oppertunity to avoid payment, and believe me there are plenty of options to get out of paying if you look into it (or ask a friendly male accountant)......

[Mully]

Having pondered it a bit more and read the responses, my position is that if a bloke makes it very clear that he doesn't want to father a child, uses contraception, and warns his partner that if she falls pregnant then he will have no part of it (thus she can take her chances by sleeping with him), then maybe he has a moral/ethical get out of jail free card. He would have trouble proving a verbal contract like that in court though, wouldn't he?

It's a nice theory but all the woman has to do is tell IRD and Slappy is paying through the nose for 18 years. Whether or not he wants to be involved or not.

EDIT: especially these days, where the DPB is seriously considered as a career option.

[fire eyes]

I have a son and 2 step daughters and dont want any more kids. I had a vas 3 years ago. Mostly pain free and easy. Problem solved. But i am 41 not 21. A 21 year old guy cant get the snip (at most places) because it is not fair to them. Just because they say they dont want kids (ever) now doesnt mean they wont change their mind in 10 years time. So no the snip is not always an option. I know lots of guys that have been trapped into an unhappy relationship because she "forgot" to take the pill (for about 3 months while secretly flushing them down the toilet one every night). They stay for about 6 years then think screw it i would rather pay than put up with the crap any more. And pay they do..... usually losing the house and everything in it to her, along with the car, the dog, and their dignity as well. Then they have to pay til the kid(s) are 18.
A true dad will pay and not care or argue with the amount that is taken by the government but a man that has been tricked will take every oppertunity to avoid payment, and believe me there are plenty of options to get out of paying if you look into it (or ask a friendly male accountant)......

If vasectomy is not a viable option .. then there is another .. don't fuck.

[Number One]

One thing I dont understand is that WTF in this day and age isnt there something for men! WTF

SING IT SISTER!

Girl says to me shes on the pill, that means she doesn't want the babies, for me this is great, no-one LIKES condoms.

So what about venerial diseases...do you like those?

Not getting at you personally with this Gatch.

BUT I find it strange (and quite irritating actually) that just because a chick might be on the pill (or might TELL a guy that she is on the pill) this computes in a mans head as way hey hey no condom nookie! What if she is lying? What if she happens to be on antibiotics that effect it's efficacy? What if she is forgetful and hasn't been taking it regularly at the same time and all that jazz?

My take on this is that it takes two to tango and both people should be responsible for preventing a baby when they don't want one....especially in the case of casual sex. I too know of psycho hose beasts who have tricked their boyfriends into fatherhood - one even went so far as to prick holes in his stash of condoms!!!

I don't care who you are no one is truely prepared for parenthood and it is tough and a bloody important job to at least TRY to get right...SO I believe both parties should agree either way and if they don't want kids they should take all available precautions and then if a rogue sperm should manage to slip past the goalie both parties should be adult enough to shoulder whatever responsibility comes their way. For guys this might just mean accompanying the lady to the abortion clinic and supporting her through what is a fucking awful experience EVEN when you KNOW it's the right choice

If you are grown up enough to do the horizontal hula you should be grown up enough to face the consequences head on!

[Skyryder]

I wonder how many men would 'accept' no for an answer if the woman said that she did not want to get pregnant.

There's no double standards on this issue. If you don't want fatherhood have a wank.

If ya want the real thing you take ya chances and it's the womans 'say' come what may.



Skyryder

[Fub@r]

Years ago my ex was having a coffee with a friend of her's who was on the DPB but also in a relationship.

I was in the other room and overheard them discussing how National was proposing to make anyone who was on the DPB with a child over 6 go in to part time work. (this was 10 years ago). Anyway she was saying how she didn't want to work and had gone off the pill without the partner knowing. Her plan was to get pregnant and maintain her work free benefit.

About a month later she was pregnant, National lost the election and now this poor bastard has to pay for a kid to this nutty cow.


A few years back I heard about a test case in the UK where a guy was taking his girlfriend to court to force her to go through with her pregnancy. He wanted the kid she didn't as was going to get an abortion. I never heard the outcome of this case but the arguments were:

He said if he didn't want the child and she did he is forced to be financially liable for the next 19 years. He wants the child so why does he have no say?

Whereas she had decided she didn't want it and female groups argued that its her body and she decides what happens.

[Lissa]

Having pondered it a bit more and read the responses, my position is that if a bloke makes it very clear that he doesn't want to father a child, uses contraception, and warns his partner that if she falls pregnant then he will have no part of it (thus she can take her chances by sleeping with him), then maybe he has a moral/ethical get out of jail free card. He would have trouble proving a verbal contract like that in court though, wouldn't he?

The problem is not all contraception is 100% accurate. Condoms burst, pills are not effective if you are on antibotics or you have diarrhea or are sick etc. Having an abortion isnt something that is easy to go through, and its not a method of contraception. Of course there are women who may try to get pregnant with just about anyone so they can have a child and then screw the guys life up forever, but I think (hope) those are few and far between.

There is of course the fact that if you dont want to have children dont have sex having a child is a possible outcome even with every precaution. So I guess I am saying, if a guy has sex with a woman, uses all precautions and she still gets pregnant than he has a responsibility to that child, the child didn't ask to be born and shouldn't suffer for it. I guess guys just have to step up and accept that sometimes there are no accidents... only choices.

[Mikkel]

Of course accidents can happen, nothing bar abstinence is 100% fail safe

And even that, if we are to believe certain authorities on contraception, doesn't hold true all of the time

The truth of the matter is that it is something that *can* cause life long trauma.

Whereas having a kid you truly do not want *will* cause life long trauma - and possibly for everyone involved.

The problem is not all contraception is 100% accurate. Condoms burst, pills are not effective if you are on antibotics or you have diarrhea or are sick etc. Having an abortion isnt something that is easy to go through, and its not a method of contraception.

Butt, there is another way...(NWS)

http://www.berylium.net/uploaded_images/anal-723075.jpg


But in all seriousness, a woman who is misleading a partner into knocking her up and then decides to keep the baby while reaping 18 years of benefits on his account is guilty of reverse rape. It is a despicable thing to do.

Ultimately abortion or no abortion is the woman's choice. However, it does take two to tango and if she decides to use Joe Bloggs as a sperm donor without his consent he ought to have at least the same rights as the ones that gets paid to provide the same service. I do think we can all agree that the main purpose of sex these days is recreation, not procreation - if so it is important to recognise this fact legally as well.