Pakeha world views?

[smoky]

What if you were born in Germany (for example) but were ethnically Asian?
which box would you tick?

Hmmmm - ethnicity would be Asian!!!

[Big Dave]

What if you were born in Germany (for example) but were ethnically Asian?

Japanese and you might have an Axis to grind.

[McJim]

I think the main thrust of the whole thread is specifically that the P word refers to people who are not of the same culture as Maori.

If we then take the same question from my cultural point of view and we refer to people who are not of Scottish descent as Sassenach then could we please have THE sasseneach world view?

Bear in mind that the word Sassenach means not Scottish and therefore I want ONE world view that inclusively reflects at least the following cultures and others:
Japanese, American, Samoan, Argentinian, Italian, German, Zimbabwean, Russian, Latvian, Swedish, Portugese, Maltese, Libyan, Israeli, Kyrgyzstani, Napalese, Chinese, Mongolian, Iranian, Kuwaiti, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Chinese, Thai, Taiwanese, Brazilian, Chilean, Mexican, Paraguayan, Cook Island, Australian, Danish, Maori, Dutch, Canadian, Cameroonian, Kenyan, Tanxanian, Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan and Hawaian.

Go on - one World View to encompass that - If you are Maori then you MUST be sassenach by the definiton given here but I think such an exercise in impossible. At least as impossible as the question you have set us.

Despite our pale skin we all have substantially different world views as individuals.

Here is one aspect of MY world view.

I am white, male and heterosexual. I therefore have no community. Gays have a Gay community. Asians have the Asian Community. Maori have the Maori Community. Indians have the Indian Community. Lesbians have the Lesbian community. But if white heterosexual males stand together we get called neo nazis.

This means that as soon as we are born, while we are still babes in arms we are hated. As soon as I was born I was held responsible for the oppression of African Americans, I was responsible for every battered woman, I was responsible for the invasion of every land by the British Empire....I can go on but I hope you understand the World View that has been thrust upon me just because of the colour of my skin.

It can make us wiggers pretty bitter.

[davebullet]

I think when you identify any group by a particular attribute, whether racial origin / ethnicity, eye colour or hair length, the worldview becomes constrained by that one attribute - regardless of where the people that meet that group's critiera are located in the world.

For example... A pakeha world view might be "wish we could all just get along in this country and forget the racial past. Sure there were some wrongs, but paying endless money to other groups doesn't make those wrongs right". The Pakehas could then empathise with other like groups (colour independent here) across the world where the same thing is going on. If you don't know about other cultures, then your worldview is constrained to your perspective of what has happened in your own country, which means it isn't really a world view afterall. I fall into this latter category, like I believe most NZers would.

My point is, a worldview is constrained by the common attribute, and is largely irrelevant since most people will have strongest opinions about their own country, not others.

[Trudes]

So as far as the goverment is concerned, a newly newly appointed citizen from Spain, Romania, or Slovakia would be in the same ethnic group as 7th generation New Zealander?

Hence the name Pakeha, it is the name given to the white coloniser, so techniquely if you were born in NZ and are of European decent, yes you would be "lumped" in as a Pakeha. If you're fresh off the plane from wherever, then you would be whatever ethnicity you are (or what nationality is on your passport as far as the authorities are concerned).
In that way Pakeha denotes the other people who are Treaty of Waitangi partners who are not Maori and are represented by the Crown. It makes Pakeha partners with Maori, tangata whenua and gives us a standing in NZ, some rights as the Treaty partner.
As I said, I look at it as a way of belonging here, my ancestors were party to the Treaty (well, mine didn't but what the hell, I still get blamed for all the injustices of the past just like every other Whitey) so I'm claiming my place in NZ.

[sidecar bob]

That’s very odd – the term Pakeha is neither a nationality nor a race, never has been. It is not recognised or used in any government statistics, funding or analysis – so it is highly unlikely it was used by any government agency or polytech? You must be mistaken, or tell them they are a bunch of dickheads.

I can assure you i was not mistaken, it was only about a week or so ago.
I would be happy to source the form & somehow post a copy of it on here.
It is also used on the ACC 45 injury/accident report form too.
The nationality on my passport states my ethnicity as "New Zealand" which was a country last time i checked, not an ethnicity.
I am of Dutch parentage, but being born here & having no interest or connections in the Netherlands i am about as Dutch as Mc Jim & therefore dont think of myself as such, therefore i am not.

[Pwalo]

Here is one aspect of MY world view.

I am white, male and heterosexual. I therefore have no community. Gays have a Gay community. Asians have the Asian Community. Maori have the Maori Community. Indians have the Indian Community. Lesbians have the Lesbian community. But if white heterosexual males stand together we get called neo nazis.

This means that as soon as we are born, while we are still babes in arms we are hated. As soon as I was born I was held responsible for the oppression of African Americans, I was responsible for every battered woman, I was responsible for the invasion of every land by the British Empire....I can go on but I hope you understand the World View that has been thrust upon me just because of the colour of my skin.

It can make us wiggers pretty bitter.

Yep, and it's even worse if you're a middle class, white, heterosexual male. I never realised that I was so smegging dangerous.

I still stand by by my original statement. Trump Lady, you know what your lecturer/marker wants, so just let her have it. What you, or I, or anyone else thinks, isn't going to change the way that she will bemarking your paper.

[PeeJay]

I can assure you i was not mistaken, it was only about a week or so ago.
I would be happy to source the form & somehow post a copy of it on here.
It was on an ACC form to at some point too.
The nationality on my passport states my ethnicity as "New Zealand" which was a country last time i checked, not an ethnicity.
I am of Dutch parentage, but being born here & having no interest or connections in the Netherlands i am about as Dutch as Mc Jim & therefore dont think of myself as such, therefore i am not.

My NZ passport only has Nationality, no mention of ethnicity.
A quick look at the application form and again no mention of ethnicity
Do you have some other countries passport where ethnicity is important to the govt?

[sidecar bob]

My NZ passport only has Nationality, no mention of ethnicity.
A quick look at the application form and again no mention of ethnicity
Do you have some other countries passport where ethnicity is important to the govt?

Ahh, true, it does say nationality, my badd. Maybe it should say "New Zealander" rather than New Zealand though.

[jetboy]

Who's calling you Pakeha anyway? what's your issue? when was the last time you had to tick a box for Pakeha? It's not used. The Government use European or NZ or Caucasian to describe white people or non Maori
So WTF are you guys getting bent out of shape for???

Just about every bit of paperwork that comes from the Government has the word Pakeha on it, which I cross out and replace with New Zealander. I am getting "bent out of shape" because I find the term derogatory. Relate to the word "Negro" which is a term referring to people of Black ancestory....Pakeha, according to some here, means people of non-Maori decent, or white.
Negro is now considered an ethnic slur, yet Pakeha is considered acceptable even though alot of New Zealanders I know find it an ethnic slur too?

As long as 'One people' is defined in terms that you find acceptable
and 'One country' is what? No doubt interpreted according to a colonialist view of things?

I refer to 'One People' as a term where ALL New Zealanders are treated equal with the same rule applying to everyone, which is certainly not the case now. Whether this be a 'colonialists' view or not it doesn't matter - Europeans conquored NZ way before anyone-alive-today's grandparents were even a twinkle in their parents' eyes. What I am in favour of is that there is one legal system, one education system, one electorate system for all New Zealanders...why should there be more than one, I don't get it?!


**Disclaimer**
These posts are written in my personal capacity and are my own.

[Headbanger]

This is going to be a right bastard when it comes to Ethnic cleansing.

Be interesting to see how this separatist bullshit holds up in another 100 years when the blood lines are indistinguishable.

Who the hell are they going to blame then?

[smoky]

As soon as I was born I was held responsible for the oppression of African Americans, I was responsible for every battered woman, I was responsible for the invasion of every land by the British Empire.....

Bloody hell - I knew it was all your fault, you bastard you

[Trudes]

Hey Trump-lady, have you read "Being Pakeha" or "Being Pakeha Now" both by Michael King? Wonder if either of those would help you any?
Infact, those and Michael King's "The Penguin History of New Zealand" are good books to get a pretty good history of New Zealand, probably a bit different to what our teachers in primary school taught us (and yes, Michael King was a Whitey) and not entirely one sided like a lot of other NZ history books I've read, so fairly easy reading. If anyone is actually interested in opening their minds a little.

[smoky]

Just about every bit of paperwork that comes from the Government has the word Pakeha on it, which I cross out and replace with New Zealander.

It is simply not used when collecting nationality or ethnicity statistics, unless they are operating outside of current legislative requirements - which I doubt they are (see my earlier post on that subject if you can be bothered - you obviously skipped it)

I refer to 'One People' as a term where ALL New Zealanders are treated equal with the same rule applying to everyone, which is certainly not the case now. Whether this be a 'colonialists' view or not it doesn't matter....What I am in favour of is that there is one legal system, one education system, one electorate system for all New Zealanders...why should there be more than one, I don't get it?!

Problem is - I doubt we could find one system that suites all of us. In my view the normal European/British rule or system is classist, racist and inflexible of minority groups. But I'm yet to find a better one.
But I think the discussion is more about recognising that we are not 'one people' we are many people, rather than let that make you feel uncomfortable we should embrace diversity, celebrate our differing strengths

Europeans conquored NZ

When was that?
You should really read a bit of history on NZ

[James Deuce]

Hey Trump-lady, have you read "Being Pakeha" or "Being Pakeha Now" both by Michael King? Wonder if either of those would help you any?
Infact, those and Michael King's "The Penguin History of New Zealand" are good books to get a pretty good history of New Zealand, probably a bit different to what our teachers in primary school taught us (and yes, Michael King was a Whitey) and not entirely one sided like a lot of other NZ history books I've read, so fairly easy reading. If anyone is actually interested in opening their minds a little.

Anything by James Belich will fulfil that role as well.