Pakeha world views?

[Skyryder]

I have always found the term "Pakeha" (sorry Spank) to be derogatory.

I remember an incident I had at high school a wee while ago. My social studies teacher asked the class if they knew what "Pakeha" ment, and the majority responded "White Pig", which was apparently the correct answer. When asked what the word "Maori' ment I responded "Black Pig" and got booted out of class.

I am not a racist and strongly believe in the "One People, One Country" ideology and my comment above was a piss-take, seriously.

I just HATE the word Pakeha. Why can't I be a New Zealander? Or a Kiwi? Why do I have to be labled with what I take as a derogatory term and it is considered OK?
If I were Maori I would hate being referred to as the N-word and other such names.

With you on this one.

The 'unmentioned name' differs somewhat from iwi to iwi. As it now stands Europeans associate the 'unmentioned' name to that of a Caucasian of European descent. From this perspective the name has changed it's meaning from the original Maori. This was in reference to that of the 'smell' of a pig. bearing in mind that the first contact that maori had of Europeans were the sealers. You don't have to imagine very hard what these guys smelt like after months at sea where personal hygene did not exist. Pakeha is a reference to the smell of a pig or to one that acts as a pig; dirty and unclean.

Skyryder

[Big Dave]

[smoky]

Duty
Honour
Justice
Solidarity
From each according to his means, to each according to his needs
Don't let a mate down
Do what y'need to do
Loyalty
Self sufficiency
Use it up, make it do
#8 wire
If you can't afford it, don't have it
Many hands make light work
Nobody respects a bludger
Nothing venture nothing gain

Generation Y wouldn't even grasp half of those concepts. Sadly mate they belong to a mythical past which we fondly recall.......

Or perhaps each generation, and different cutures, dress those values/concepts up in way you don't recognise.
As we become more stayed, ingrained in our own truth (own world view), we fail to recognise the same values and concepts in a modern younger generations culture (the culture gap?)

I think the majority of young people have a better sense of responsibility and behave themselves far better than when I was a teenager. They have to, as the repercussions are far worse now - unfortunately the few who don't behave have a higher degree of exposure with modern media

[smoky]

I have always found the term "Pakeha" to be derogatory.
I just HATE the word Pakeha. Why can't I be a New Zealander? Or a Kiwi? Why do I have to be labled with what I take as a derogatory term

Who's calling you Pakeha anyway? what's your issue? when was the last time you had to tick a box for Pakeha? It's not used.
Maori don't use the term very often at all - I hear Tau iwi or Tu iwi or Manuwhiri, more often, and it's far more descriptive of non Maori.
The Government use European or NZ or Caucasian to describe white people or non Maori
So WTF are you guys getting bent out of shape for???

I am not a racist and strongly believe in the "One People, One Country" ideology

As long as 'One people' is defined in terms that you find acceptable
and 'One country' is what? No doubt interpreted according to a colonialist view of things?

The whole idea of social workers and public servants developing a two world view (or more) is to open their eyes to the possibility that situation can be interpreted in more ways than 1.
Not to convince people to change their world view but to accept that we are not all the same.
To be an effective communicator, to be effective across cultural, generational divides - not to assimilate or change your view on things.

But it's not a surprise to see as people open themselves up to other ideas and views - you do change a bit

[scrivy]

Thats fine, but i strongly object to apparently only having a Maori word to describe my ethnicity.

Well here's a few white fellas word to describe you then.........

Soft,
Lazy,
unnecessary exertion,
slow,
munter funker,
Kickaha..........

(Got you in the mood for Sunday Bob?)

[Ms Piggy]

Maybe something to do with the nuclear family ideal that most of us "whiteys" still envisage but seldom achieve; individualism ie. not collective ways of living; self-determination, the things we do are usually to benefit ourselves and our immediate families, not our extended family and future generations; farming and innovation, yes, that is a broad generalisation, but hey why not a picture of a Pakeha with his sheep and dogs and tractor or something.

Hey Trump Lady - I can't be arsed wading through all the comments to see if I'm repeating anything anyone has already said.

Your post really got me thinking (man it hurt!) and I think it used to be a lot more clear cut than it is now - like when NZ was 1st settled by Europeans it was very clear what the Pakeha worldview was as compared to the Maori worldview. I reckon wot Trudes has suggested is pretty much it.

Anyhoo, I've also found that (as Trudes says) Pakeha families (including mine) are generally more individualistic where as Maori and Pasifika (in broad terms) are more collective and generally don't think of "I" but "us/we" - there's a really good poem written by a Pasifika poet that says it all. Well that's my understanding anyway. For e.g. (might be getting slightly off topic) Tariana Turia didn't agree with the paramountcy principal of CYF (section 6 of the CYP&F Act 1989, i.e. that the welfare and interests of the child or young person are the first paramount consideration[borrowed that quote from someone else not my own tired brain!]) because a child is part of the collective and not viewed as an individual (was her view).

But then my understanding is that Europeans used to be very collective also pre-Industrial revolution (cripes that's going back in the archives of my 1st year sociology paper!). Aaaaaaaaannnnnd my Mum's generation (she's in her early 60's) had extended family living with them - their G/Dad and Great Uncle.

My theory and the way I work is that everyone has a story and even though categorising worldviews can be helpful it can sometimes be a hindrance so I (try to) find out from the people I meet what their story is and what is important to them and their family.

For the record I don't find the term Pakeha offensive but I'm a bit of a lefty liberal type.

Okay I'll shut up now cos I could blab on about this sorta shit all night!! I'd love to read your final essay. All the best!

[sidecar bob]

Well here's a few white fellas word to describe you then.........

Soft,
Lazy,
unnecessary exertion,
slow,
munter funker,
Kickaha..........

(Got you in the mood for Sunday Bob?)

Ive heard you being described with a few kiwi words in the last week too pal, im sure you know what i mean

[Headbanger]

Who's calling you Pakeha anyway? what's your issue? when was the last time you had to tick a box for Pakeha? It's not used.

The Government use European or NZ or Caucasian to describe white people or non Maori
So WTF are you guys getting bent out of shape for???

About a week ago on a Government form, I of course crossed it out and wrote in New Zealander.

Pakeha is an ugly word, It sounds ugly like most Maori words and is used by many in an ugly fashion.

[sidecar bob]

About a week ago on a Government form, I of course crossed it out and wrote in New Zealander.

Pakeha is an ugly word, It sounds ugly like most Maori words and is used by many in an ugly fashion.

I did exactly the same on the forms for my apprentice from the polytech.
So yeah, they do use it on forms still.

[smoky]

I did exactly the same on the forms for my apprentice from the polytech.
So yeah, they do use it on forms still.

About a week ago on a Government form, I of course crossed it out and wrote in New Zealander.

That’s very odd – the term Pakeha is neither a nationality nor a race, never has been. It is not recognised or used in any government statistics, funding or analysis – so it is highly unlikely it was used by any government agency or polytech? You must be mistaken, or tell them they are a bunch of dickheads. The collection of nationality or ethnicity statistics is regulated by legislation, there are clear guidelines.
I have been part of the recent review of the categorisation of information gathered and used by government departments and agencies, there is a standard that is used across health education and so on.
Ethnicity choices should only be;
European
NZ Maori
Pacific Island
Asian
Other
There are a few more ethnicities that you can use in specific cases like; Cook Islander, Tokelaun etc. But you have to show direct relevance to ask any more than the basic list.
And believe me – you will not find Pakeha on that list either (full list can be provided on request).

If you cross anything out and write New Zealander or Kiwi – you are automatically assigned to the ethnic status of ‘Other’. Kind of don’t agree with how it is, but that’s how it is

Ethnicity is not the same as Nationality – as in New Zealander, Indian, Chinese… but not Pakeha as it doesn’t reflect any particular nationality

[McJim]

Ethnicity is not the same as Nationality – as in New Zealander, Indian, Chinese… but not Pakeha as it doesn’t reflect any particular nationality

Back in Bradford a Pakeha is a comedian from Pakistan or would that be a Pakehahahaha?

[Usarka]

Ethnicity choices should only be;
European
NZ Maori
Pacific Island
Asian
Other
Ethnicity is not the same as Nationality – as in New Zealander, Indian, Chinese… but not Pakeha as it doesn’t reflect any particular nationality

So as far as the goverment is concerned, a newly newly appointed citizen from Spain, Romania, or Slovakia would be in the same ethnic group as 7th generation New Zealander?

No wonder a lot of kiwis have contempt for this sort of stuff.

[Headbanger]

With you on this one.

The 'unmentioned name' differs somewhat from iwi to iwi. As it now stands Europeans associate the 'unmentioned' name to that of a Caucasian of European descent. From this perspective the name has changed it's meaning from the original Maori. This was in reference to that of the 'smell' of a pig. bearing in mind that the first contact that maori had of Europeans were the sealers. You don't have to imagine very hard what these guys smelt like after months at sea where personal hygene did not exist. Pakeha is a reference to the smell of a pig or to one that acts as a pig; dirty and unclean.

Skyryder

1.The Maori would have stunk just as bad as any sealer
2.Do you have a reference for that definition?

[smoky]

So as far as the goverment is concerned, a newly newly appointed citizen from Spain, Romania, or Slovakia would be in the same ethnic group as 7th generation New Zealander?

No wonder a lot of kiwis have contempt for this sort of stuff.

Actually it's worse than that;
because it's based on ethnicity not nationality or citizenship, what would you tick if you were Dutch, or German or whatever?
European of course, same as American or SA or Australian - or you could opt for 'Other'

So basically the system doesn't care about our ethnicity other than the fact we are not NZ Maori, Pacific Islander or Asian????
I wonder why

[Whynot]

Actually it's worse than that;
because it's based on ethnicity not nationality or citizenship, what would you tick if you were Dutch, or German or whatever?
European of course, same as American or SA or Australian - or you could opt for 'Other'

So basically the system doesn't care about our ethnicity other than the fact we are not NZ Maori, Pacific Islander or Asian????
I wonder why

What if you were born in Germany (for example) but were ethnically Asian?
which box would you tick?