Correct riding position?

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Wrong. Youre not leaning far enough over if you have both arches on the peg and you get better wieght and force by using your ball on the inside peg due to body postion.

so troy baylis is wrong too?

[Two Smoker]

so troy baylis is wrong too?

Nup, troy is right... Sorry you are wrong...


Looks like his toe is on the peg to me?

[Shaun P]

Wrong. Youre not leaning far enough over if you have both arches on the peg and you get better wieght and force by using your ball on the inside peg due to body postion.

Basic racing position step by step. Just before or during braking move you arse off the seat towards the side you will be leaning to. Push down on the pegs with your feet during braking. Keep your arms slightly bent at all times. Move your inside ball onto the peg. Keep your outside foot, arch on the peg. Weight this inside foot to aid in turn in. Use your knee to gauge lean, and once you know your angle, lift your knee slightly (you dont want to put alot of weight on your knee). As you exit the corner weight the outside peg to aid in righting the bike and traction.

But before you do all this you will save more time just on braking points, track postioning, lines and throttle application.

Good point

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Nup, troy is right... Sorry you are wrong...


Looks like his toe is on the peg to me?

Troy often is dragging toes on right handers from trailing the back brake and when he does this he has his arch of foot on the inside peg. you can also have you arch on the inside peg and lift the inside of your foot to get stick your knee out.

ANYWAY, this proves my point perfectly. it is all subjective and there is no one way of doing it. so asking for advice on how to do it is counter contructive as the difference of opinion is varied.

[discotex]

I've been wondering for a while, what exactly IS Rake & Trail??

Best explanation I could find within 49.7 seconds.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_art/index.html

[Mishy]

I think i would agree with most of the ground covered in this thread.
One point i want to make is to help you avoid a classic newby mistake.
Whan you do mess with hanging off (and you should, it's fun) make sure you move your body weight WITH YOUR FEET ! most guys and girls trying to hang off for the first time try to move themselves around by pulling on the 'bars to get themselves moved from one side to the other. It creates instability because you make a whole bunch of steering inputs while you are doing it, and it upsets the bike.
Sit wherever is comfortable, keep your elbows low, and move with your feet - the balls of your feet

[johan]

When you hang off guys, do you have most of the weight on the seat, or using the legs to support you self?

Did that question make sense?

I find myself supporting me with the legs. I'm not sure that's a good thing to do. For one thing, it takes energy.

[Benk]

When you hang off guys, do you have most of the weight on the seat, or using the legs to support you self?

Did that question make sense?

I find myself supporting me with the legs. I'm not sure that's a good thing to do. For one thing, it takes energy.

Yes, lowers your center of gravity, not that Im an expert. It also helps with smoothing out the transition between corners I find. But yes, the legs get tired.

[Two Smoker]

When you hang off guys, do you have most of the weight on the seat, or using the legs to support you self?

Did that question make sense?

I find myself supporting me with the legs. I'm not sure that's a good thing to do. For one thing, it takes energy.

Racing bikes is tough work! Thats right though. Most of your weight is on the inside peg. The only time you sit on the seat is on the smooth straights. Bumpy straights and you should be weighting the pegs to use your legs as extra 'suspension'

[Shaun P]

I think i would agree with most of the ground covered in this thread.
One point i want to make is to help you avoid a classic newby mistake.
Whan you do mess with hanging off (and you should, it's fun) make sure you move your body weight WITH YOUR FEET ! most guys and girls trying to hang off for the first time try to move themselves around by pulling on the 'bars to get themselves moved from one side to the other. It creates instability because you make a whole bunch of steering inputs while you are doing it, and it upsets the bike.
Sit wherever is comfortable, keep your elbows low, and move with your feet - the balls of your feet

Yep and another good point I found for stability when moving is to keep 1 knee in contact with the fuel tank at all times during transition eg hanging off to the left and wanting to move back upright or to the right - bring your left knee firmly to the tank then move body weight.

[johan]

Racing bikes is tough work! Thats right though. Most of your weight is on the inside peg. The only time you sit on the seat is on the smooth straights. Bumpy straights and you should be weighting the pegs to use your legs as extra 'suspension'

It felt quite natural for me so I've continued doing it. I've found weighting the pegs also helps recover when the rear steps out.

I now need to remember to relax more on the bars. I find myself quite holding on too much mid corner.

[Sully60]

Have a look at Mystic13 's public profile...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=18371

That guy's riding like a turkey!



Gobble gobble.

if you were to ask 100 racers, you may well get 100 different opinions.

dont get get caught up in the detail. even the well meaning advice of riding on balls of feet isnt neccessarily correct - if you were to think of the foot peg as a pivot point, you would get more leverage and strength (thus control) with the arch of your foot on the peg. again, some really good riders ride with the archs on the peg, some with their balls (!?haha) on the peg.

Keep your inside foot like that and your boot expensenses will get rather large, rather quickly! Moving your feet is a big part of cornering rhythm. The Two stroker man is on to it, do all your moving befor you hit the brakes and intiate turn in.

The best place to start is bum on seat, balls of feet on pegs and only move your upper body as per the old "kiss the mirrors" deal. Add the arse slide in later when that is natural.

+1
And if you can add some arse latter then bonus!

And an important thing about getting this to work is to make sure you relax the outside arm to allow your upper body to move across the centre line of the bike. People who's riding devlopment has been done mainly on road and race bikes seem to do this quite naturally where as dirt oriented riders more adept at the 'pushdown' cornering method will find it a little odd at first.

You'll see from some of the profile pics the outside arm is actually touching the tank, this is what you need to aim for, probably a litle hard on an ol' skool type bike like yo bucket with a skinny tank but you'll feel the benefits of it, not only to get your body position right but allows you to feel whats going on whilst making serious steering inputs with the inside arm.

[cowpoos]

Wrong. Youre not leaning far enough over if you have both arches on the peg and you get better wieght and force by using your ball on the inside peg due to body postion.

Basic racing position step by step. Just before or during braking move you arse off the seat towards the side you will be leaning to. Push down on the pegs with your feet during braking. Keep your arms slightly bent at all times. Move your inside ball onto the peg. Keep your outside foot, arch on the peg. Weight this inside foot to aid in turn in. Use your knee to gauge lean, and once you know your angle, lift your knee slightly (you dont want to put alot of weight on your knee). As you exit the corner weight the outside peg to aid in righting the bike and traction.

But before you do all this you will save more time just on braking points, track postioning, lines and throttle application.

Nah....I think you will find that you are wrong...go have a look at a heap of photos of riders feet...top guys especially.

and tell me...how the hell do you change gear or use the rear brake while your leaned over??? it actually doesn't make sense...if you are having a issue getting you weight further over...I suggest you move your pegs up...I can't see how you can even be that stable if a bike starts to let go with only the balls of your feet on the pegs?????? weird....anyway...what ever works for ya!!

[cowpoos]

Nah....I think you will find that you are wrong...go have a look at a heap of photos of riders feet...top guys especially.

and tell me...how the hell do you change gear or use the rear brake while your leaned over??? it actually doesn't make sense...if you are having a issue getting you weight further over...I suggest you move your pegs up...I can't see how you can even be that stable if a bike starts to let go with only the balls of your feet on the pegs?????? weird....anyway...what ever works for ya!!

Well after have a dam good nosey at some photos...I will conceed there are some guys that do use the balls of their feet.[not the majority ] but most don't...so maybe its a personal prefference type thing....but still...how the hell do you use the rear brake and change gear??? and all the moving about must be making corners far busier than they need to be!!!!

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

I need to qualify my statements RE: arch on pegs. I was alluding that the foot weighting the peg should, from a physics point of view, be better with the arch than ball/toes. In a turn, the inside peg isnt being weighted so you can move the foot up and out of the way, if you arent using the foot controls. The outside peg, is the most critical.

But this also depends on your personal dimensions. Those with short legs and who hang off heaps, will use their tippy toes on the outside peg because their legs are having to reach. This looks down-right dangerous to me, as there can be little leverage on the peg from the quads/glutes (how much power can you get out of your calfs!!). BUT some are fast with this method ie, Tony Elias.

Also, RE: elbows on tank. Ben spies is elbows up, same as Andrew Pitt (ex world supersport champ), Setton from OZ. They are all fast and dont rest elbows on the tank. The theory is that high elbows makes the handle bars a pivot point, which, according to the theory will increase steering inputs ie, make bars shake ets. But go ride a dirt bike with low elbows. It'll throw you off in 5 minutes!

Hence my comments as there is no one, generic best method. There are ideals, from a physics point of view, but in reality many different styles can be effective.

In this regard, no-one is wrong or right. YOu should do whats comfortable.