Great news

[Mom]

Fortunately us Greenies voters can vote Green without supporting every molecule of the party line.

The ignorance of some voters astounds me.

Who cares? I DO!!!

Sorry to burst your bubble (animal product free soap bubble?) but a vote for any party is tacit approval of all their policies. Even the ones they didn't mention before they got your vote.

Gee, you say it better than me.

As I dont generally get involved with political threads I will stay out of this one, but FFS! I fear there are too many of the above thinking voters about the place really.

[cowpoos]

Helping to fix the racial divide in NZ the Green party are proposing a parallel justice system - just for Maori - aimed at (get this) reducing the unjust imprisonment of many Maori.

http://www.greens.org.nz/node/20880

"A parallel Maori justice system will be proposed by Green Party Law and Order/Maori Affairs Spokesperson Metiria Turei at tomorrow’s Crime Summit.

“Because Maori are more likely to be stopped and searched, arrested rather than cautioned, and receive higher sentences than Pakeha offenders, Maori crime and imprisonment rates are elevated,” Mrs Turei said today.

“The establishment of a Maori justice system that runs alongside the existing legal system – using the education system as a model – will help to eliminate the impact of this systemic racial profiling, reduce the unjust imprisonment of many Maori and stem Maori reoffending.”


What a brilliant idea. I also suggesting a While, Male, High income earner, married with kids parallel justice system.

Ill be the judge and Finn can be the guy who hands out the punishments.

we seem to be the only country in the world thats trying to achive segragation...the rest of the world has moved away from it.....

What a fucking joke!! they arn't a green party...they are a flippying radical socialist communist party!!! what was thier last enviromental policy?? Hitlers third reich had much move extensive enviromental policys...and yet strangly similar social policys...don't agree...go and do some research on google!!

[BMWST?]

Just another reason why I'm not a Greenie. Mind you I can not for the love of me see any political advantage for the Green's to have this policy. They are not going to attract Maori votes and the policy is likely to alenaiate 'middle' New Zealand.


Skyryder

you dont think that they may have stated their actual thoughts about a policy/situation rather than spin it up so much that only those inside the system actually know what they are on about?

[rainman]

Sorry to burst your bubble (animal product free soap bubble?) but a vote for any party is tacit approval of all their policies.

The ignorance of some voters astounds me.

Me too.

Ok, let's run this through from the top.

Say there are three parties, G, B and R. For simplicity say there's only a party vote. Say they all have 10 policies on the same 10 major policy areas. Say also that a voter looks at all of their policies in detail and scores which ones they agree with and which ones they don't. For further simplicity pretend the policies are atomic, and each question has a simple yes/no answer. Say the scores come back G 7/10, B 2/10, R 4/10. So the voter places their one vote with G - the option of not voting being for teh loserz - because they feel that they are the most likely to represent their views in parliament. That being the point, and all.

Notice there is no party that scores 10/10.

Let's assume G wins sufficient power to start getting some of their policies implemented. Say the first one they implement is one of the 3 that our voter actually, individually, does not support or agree with. In the world of representative democracy, the term for this situation is "tough shit". If G implements all of the policies that the voter does not like, changes their minds on 4 of the 7 that he/she does like etc, then next election the voter chooses to vote for someone else. (The same term is used for that, too). The voter's brain does not explode, even though they still don't like the policy, possibly even for deep-seated reasons.

Note, despite simplifying everything right down, we still have a situation where the voter can hold the view of not liking policies 8, 9 and 10 (even quite strongly), while still thinking G are the best people to give his/her support to. All the time without their brain exploding.

The real world is like that too, just a lot more complex.


Jeez, no wonder MMP doesn't work in NZ.

[Mom]

Me too.



Jeez, no wonder MMP doesn't work in NZ.

Never voted for the system anyway, no surprise it does not work.

[rainman]

Never voted for the system anyway, no surprise it does not work.

I was being a bit cheeky.

I know you said you don't post in pol threads but do you seriously feel you have to agree with every half-arsed idea your pet flavour of pollies dreams up, just cos you voted for them? (99% of them are idiots!)

I find that frankly astounding. Actually I blame it on the rugby culture, people fell they have to support "their team" No Matter What.

[Headbanger]

i was being a bit cheeky.

I know you said you don't post in pol threads but do you seriously feel you have to agree with every half-arsed idea your pet flavour of pollies dreams up, just cos you voted for them? (99% of them are idiots!)

i find that frankly astounding. Actually i blame it on the rugby culture, people fell they have to support "their team" no matter what.

go the blacks!!!!!!

[Mom]

I was being a bit cheeky.

I know you said you don't post in pol threads but do you seriously feel you have to agree with every half-arsed idea your pet flavour of pollies dreams up, just cos you voted for them? (99% of them are idiots!)

I find that frankly astounding. Actually I blame it on the rugby culture, people fell they have to support "their team" No Matter What.

NO I dont have to agree with every half baked idea that any party I vote for might have as policy.

But I sure as shit would not give my vote to a party who's policies I did not predominantly agree with either. To vote for a party on one or two vote attracting policies is ignorant in the extreme.

You admit you vote Green, cool, may you live with the fall out of their influence as I who did not vote for them have to also.

The end.

[tri boy]

In the 90's, the West Australian Govt allowed Aborigines to administer tribal punishment to desert tribal members.
This involved in some cases, what many would see as abhorrent punishment. (offender being in the middle of a circle, while members of the tribe threw spears at him).
This was reserved for Rape, Murder, Child molestation.
Lesser crimes were given lesser punishments.
The PC brigade stepped in, and to my knowledge, the practice has ceased, (at least as far as the white fulla's know anyhow).

The upshot was, that tribal members felt more empowered to control their people, and to a certain extent, tribal violence was reduced.
These practices could only be used on remote missions but you never heard the tribes complaining about the severity of their punishment system.

Let NZ Maori arm themselves with tribal weapons, and set a bit of local whoop arse on their own offenders.
The results might surprise us.

[rainman]

Never voted for the system anyway, no surprise it does not work.

Sorry to double reply, but I think you just explained one of life's great mysteries. I live on the Shore, Murray McCully's electorate. Now, a more useless waste of space as an electorate MP you would truly struggle to find - yet 20,151 people voted for him.

I can actually understand people voting Nat. I just can't understand people voting Murray. Since 21,681 voted Nat, I can now conclude that only about 1,530 right-wingers have a clue around here, which is probably NZF plus Family Party etc. Scary.

Interesting Greens got only 1,439 votes but the much loathed Sue Bradford pulled 2,263. See how it works?

[rainman]

But I sure as shit would not give my vote to a party who's policies I did not predominantly agree with either. To vote for a party on one or two vote attracting policies is ignorant in the extreme.

But I do predominantly agree with their policies... just not all of them, which is what was being argued earlier. This one looks like a shitter.

You admit you vote Green, cool, may you live with the fall out of their influence as I who did not vote for them have to also.

The end.

Don't worry they have no actual power....

And I'll shut up now.

[meteor]

Don't agree with it, further division will work how? The ambulance at the bottom of the cliff again. Why don't they ask the cause, why the violence, the stealing the drug & alcohol abuse? that's what the systemic failure is, but not by the system alone. And as for what the Hon TT says... "Maori don't get warned"... why should they when they commit serious or multiple offences. When will we all wake up and tell them if they're criminals it's their fault! and stop trying to blame everyone else because they can't sort their own cultural shit out?
The only parallel system I'd like to see is one where all proceeds of crime is confiscated, sold and distributed back to the victims instead of the govt. welfare fund that pays it straight back to the crims...

[MSTRS:Me]

Ok, let's run this through from the top.

Say there are three parties,...etc...

Notice there is no party that scores 10/10.

That was all obvious stuff. Which all 'thinking' voters know. Including me.
Did you miss the 'tacit'?

[rainman]

Fortunately us Greenies voters can vote Green without supporting every molecule of the party line.

a vote for any party is tacit approval of all their policies.

Did you miss the 'tacit'?

Ah, a semantic battle - "tacit" derives from "silent" (tacitus). But that's not where the action is in this logic. Did you miss the "approval"?

Facts are I don't approve of this policy (viscerally, that is, I haven't really thought it through in depth but it sounds to be a stoopid policy so I am unlikely to bother), and I probably would still vote Green, and my head hasn't exploded.

Empiricism wins, I think. Anyhoo, I'm going to go cook some eggs, wash some dishes then go for a ride... See you all later.

[oldrider]

Jeez, no wonder MMP doesn't work in NZ.

MMP is "not" supposed to work! "anywhere"

That was the intention when they foisted it onto Germany after WW2.

MMP is about compromise, where nothing ever really gets done except weak watery "Green" type touchy feely shit!

It's just like a Stallion with it's nuts out, a neutered, placid, compliant beast of burden!

And New Zealand (politicians) volunteerd for it! Go figure! John.