What's this I spy?

[sinfull]

Well apart from the back shock thing, i like it ! It's gonna level up the field a bit !
A few ppl will be pissed they have to change their headers back to OEM too i guess ! (pleased they added them PROPOSED rules before i got the new bike)

[Robert Taylor]

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AND, how are they going to police it?

This is always going to be the problem. History has shown that MNZ are piss poor at enforcement of there own rules and as most of the people who are capable of doing this job are directly involved or dont want to be involved any more there will be an even bigger gap between the haves and have nots as it will no longer be as simple as going to Joe (or DR) Bloggs and buying the parts to have the same as eveyone else. You now have to have knowledge and skill to modify parts without being blatant and rest assured you wont be caught unless MNZ is willing to provide money to pay for a skilled person to inspect these bikes. MNZ has shown that money and road racing don't go together from their side.
Also the loss of Paul Stewart is Very Bad for Elite roadracing In NZ[/QUOTE]

Yep! And there are certain shock mods that could be so well disguised that you could only pick it up on a shock dyno. Everyone has got one of those in their workshop!
There is a real danger when rules are decided by amateurs.

[Maido]

Teambwr47, that wasn't aimed at your post, it probably looked that way but it was a general comment so please don't think I was being a cock! haha!

These are all good ideas, that everyone needs to email MNZ on!

Robert, history says that MNZ do not consult you as the leading suspension techy in the country. In my email I will be sure to mention this.

As with Chris's suggestion about stronger (or some at all!) scrutineering.

I myself, as with Teambwr47, will still probably run in the normal class as I enjoy building engines and tuning the bikes I ride myself. I do believe that the bikes should be the same spec in both classes, this too is voiced in my email!

[GSVR]

Personally I can't understand the mentally of cheats as its a bit of a hollow victory.

The way Ozzy and Robert are talking its like its going to be a given that people will cheat and modify their shock. Well will you be making any illegal mods to std gsxr shocks Robert? People could just as easily cheat in other areas too.

Good sportsmen don't cheat so is our sport full of poor sportsmen who have no issue with cheating at every opportunity?

[lostinflyz]

With respect the Superstock rules are generally accepted to be what the FIM class as Superstock as do ACU in the UK and the proposed privateer rules would be more like some 'Streetstock' classes.

Equally we don't have a 'Supersport' class in NZ as the National 600cc class is effectively more of a Superstock 600 class if you view it in the context of the FIM rules.

ay you be right. i mearly refered to the two as supersport and superstock as a way of differentiation. call it 'full on' 600 and privateer or whatever.

while i understand all the arguments i find this to be the first attempt at making a real base class for racing. Its simple bikes, with simple rules. Theres no real mod's or anything else. The way the rules are it encourages more people to try racing and step eventually up to the proper class, join in nationals and feel that can be on a competitive bike at a price people without sponsorship can afford. and i reckon the rules encourage people to move up to 'full on' 600 racing.

And no matter what you do someone will push (break) the rules. its like blood and drug doping in sport. if you want to win and arent you'll do what your happy to get away with. and no matter how hard you try your always chasing your tail,wondering what no trick someones up to.

[Tony.OK]

The SBK rules are closer to 600 it would seem.
No race cams
Stock harness.................which eliminates a race ecu on some brands

Interesting..............

[Robert Taylor]

Personally I can't understand the mentally of cheats as its a bit of a hollow victory.

The way Ozzy and Robert are talking its like its going to be a given that people will cheat and modify their shock. Well will you be making any illegal mods to std gsxr shocks Robert? People could just as easily cheat in other areas too.

Good sportsmen don't cheat so is our sport full of poor sportsmen who have no issue with cheating at every opportunity?

I am making representation to MNZ that competitors should at least be allowed to revalve the shock whilst still retaining the stock piston. That is sensible and I think the reasons I will be putting forward are certainly not hollow.To do nothing would be cheating sensibility.
A very heavy guy that would need a substanial increase in spring rate to achieve the correct sag ratios would end up with a shock with so much spring force that it would overcome the rebound damping in the shock, calibrated to match a much lighter spring. If this wasnt allowable then we would disadvantage that rider.
Given that the shocks are now servicable ( unlike the sealed up pogosicks 30 odd years ago ) it creates a nightmare re enforcement.
While you are so freely delighting in using the word ''cheating'' pause to think how the powers that be have effectively cheated us out of an excellent road race commissioner.

[cs363]

Personally I can't understand the mentally of cheats as its a bit of a hollow victory.

The way Ozzy and Robert are talking its like its going to be a given that people will cheat and modify their shock. Well will you be making any illegal mods to std gsxr shocks Robert? People could just as easily cheat in other areas too.

Good sportsmen don't cheat so is our sport full of poor sportsmen who have no issue with cheating at every opportunity?

Don't be so naive, life is full of poor sportsmen who have no issue with cheating at every opportunity!

Granted, not all will cheat given the opportunity but enough surely will and that is enough to guarantee an unfair series, especially in light of MNZ's history of poor technical scrutineering.

[johnsv650]

maybe theres a new technical inspector for south island planned, maybe a fairer series next year.
but as a chch/usa rider said, to win its about how much you gamble on being caught..........
sad comment i thought, but thats how some professional riders think....

[GSVR]

I am making representation to MNZ that competitors should at least be allowed to revalve the shock whilst still retaining the stock piston. That is sensible and I think the reasons I will be putting forward are certainly not hollow.To do nothing would be cheating sensibility.
A very heavy guy that would need a substanial increase in spring rate to achieve the correct sag ratios would end up with a shock with so much spring force that it would overcome the rebound damping in the shock, calibrated to match a much lighter spring. If this wasnt allowable then we would disadvantage that rider.
Given that the shocks are now servicable ( unlike the sealed up pogosicks 30 odd years ago ) it creates a nightmare re enforcement.
While you are so freely delighting in using the word ''cheating'' pause to think how the powers that be have effectively cheated us out of an excellent road race commissioner.

As witnessed at many trackdays a reasonably good rider can punt around a stock 600 reasonably quickly. The more mods you allow the less appealing the class would be to the the person that wants to race their stock bike.

As long as skilled technicians like yourself don't hijack the class by modifying shocks I doubt there will be many people wanting to pull shocks apart and experiment after all they have to be re-pressurised right?. If they choose to then let them sweat over running a technically illegal bike!

What I personally don't want to see happen is riders that would otherwise be racing Supersport moving into this class and further diluting the present class. This is what has happend in Protwin with the top riders in that class coming from F3. If the bikes are really standard hopefully the class wont appeal as much to the "serious" racer and new blood will feel theres more chance of "having a go" without all the technicalities and expenses of a "premier class" racebike.

[Robert Taylor]

As witnessed at many trackdays a reasonably good rider can punt around a stock 600 reasonably quickly. The more mods you allow the less appealing the class would be to the the person that wants to race their stock bike.

As long as skilled technicians like yourself don't hijack the class by modifying shocks I doubt there will be many people wanting to pull shocks apart and experiment after all they have to be re-pressurised right?. If they choose to then let them sweat over running a technically illegal bike!

What I personally don't want to see happen is riders that would otherwise be racing Supersport moving into this class and further diluting the present class. This is what has happend in Protwin with the top riders in that class coming from F3. If the bikes are really standard hopefully the class wont appeal as much to the "serious" racer and new blood will feel theres more chance of "having a go" without all the technicalities and expenses of a "premier class" racebike.

And the harder they punt them around the more and more they have tyre issues, exactly why some low cost reshimming of the stock piston will be a neccessity.

[GSVR]

And the harder they punt them around the more and more they have tyre issues, exactly why some low cost reshimming of the stock piston will be a neccessity.

If they choose to go to an unsuitable tyre it may chew out very quickly this happens with the best of suspensions. If they choose a harder more robust compound the tyres will last but at the expense of less grip.

In MotoGP they have tyres that are so sticky and grippy they bearly last a lap right?

In Superbikes the bikes slide around alot and this is where the skilled riders come to the fore.

It would not be a bad thing if the bikes had less grip and moved around more infact it would develop bike handling skills in the riders before moving to a really grippy situation where the bike bites back hard.

[Robert Taylor]

If they choose to go to an unsuitable tyre it may chew out very quickly this happens with the best of suspensions. If they choose a harder more robust compound the tyres will last but at the expense of less grip.

In MotoGP they have tyres that are so sticky and grippy they bearly last a lap right?

In Superbikes the bikes slide around alot and this is where the skilled riders come to the fore.

It would not be a bad thing if the bikes had less grip and moved around more infact it would develop bike handling skills in the riders before moving to a really grippy situation where the bike bites back hard.

I can already hear the crashing. Like CS363 said dont be so naive.

[sinfull]

And the harder they punt them around the more and more they have tyre issues, exactly why some low cost reshimming of the stock piston will be a neccessity.

If they choose to go to an unsuitable tyre it may chew out very quickly this happens with the best of suspensions. If they choose a harder more robust compound the tyres will last but at the expense of less grip.

In MotoGP they have tyres that are so sticky and grippy they bearly last a lap right?

In Superbikes the bikes slide around alot and this is where the skilled riders come to the fore.

It would not be a bad thing if the bikes had less grip and moved around more infact it would develop bike handling skills in the riders before moving to a really grippy situation where the bike bites back hard.

I honestly think that shock issue will be amended, if not imediately ! A few chewed up (very expensive) tyres from "privateers" without tyre sponsors will have emails flowing into MNZ !
I don't know if its the bike (Not a F2 bike and obviously not grunty enough) or the i aint going hard enough, but my tyres are lasting a couple of meetings and sure as hell aint chewing out more like wearing out !
Whereas a mate on a gxs600 is nailing tyres like ya wouldn't believe (obvious shock problem)

[Robert Taylor]

I honestly think that shock issue will be amended, if not imediately ! A few chewed up (very expensive) tyres from "privateers" without tyre sponsors will have emails flowing into MNZ !
I don't know if its the bike (Not a F2 bike and obviously not grunty enough) or the i aint going hard enough, but my tyres are lasting a couple of meetings and sure as hell aint chewing out more like wearing out !
Whereas a mate on a gxs600 is nailing tyres like ya wouldn't believe (obvious shock problem)

Thanks for stating that loud and clear!