What's this I spy?

[GSVR]

I honestly think that shock issue will be amended, if not imediately ! A few chewed up (very expensive) tyres from "privateers" without tyre sponsors will have emails flowing into MNZ !
I don't know if its the bike (Not a F2 bike and obviously not grunty enough) or the i aint going hard enough, but my tyres are lasting a couple of meetings and sure as hell aint chewing out more like wearing out !
Whereas a mate on a gxs600 is nailing tyres like ya wouldn't believe (obvious shock problem)

So Bill what Suspension (Back and Front) do you run , also what brand,type, and compound tyres do you run. Most "serious" racers with superbikes only get a race out of their back tyres !

And your mate on the 600 whats his suspension tyre brand compound setup?

A guy showed up at the last testday at Mafield with new rubber on his GSXR 750 and he had really good suspension but still managed to really mess up his rear tyre? Why do you think this happend?

Thanks for stating that loud and clear!

Gezz Robert talk about quoteing something without all the information!

[sinfull]

Thanks for stating that loud and clear!

Of course the other issue is "how many 600 riders out there who would otherwise be eligable for the Privateers cup" have upgraded shocks ?
Would they say their shock is upgraded and volunteer to revalve it back to OEM ?
If not, does that make them a cheat or just not stupid ?
Would they make you tear down your shock, so as to mic all the shims if you won in the privateers cup ?
Would be so much, less expensive and easier to police (like at a glance), to just amend it to a revalved stock shock allowed, but no after market !
If a privateer cant afford to revalve a shock how is he paying for tyres ?
If i were nailing a tyre a meeting and couldn't resolve it with a spring, i would drop out of the Privateer cup (tui) and revalve to save my tyres !
Now that i've got to the point of wanting a new tyre per meeting it's hard to sell tyres second hand if they're sheared to buggery !
Spose i should find an email address for MNZ and send it there rather than here !

[svs]

Apart from the rear shock issue it doesn't seem so bad. I can say first hand that a poorly set up shock can destroy a rear tyre - and you don't notice this untill you start going a bit faster.

What's cheaper over a season? $1500 on a decent shock setup, or rear tyres lasting 10 laps at $500 a pop? (plus extra crash money)

And I imagine they'll also have restrictions about how many tyres you can use in a weekend which would mean if your suspension isn't set up correctly you'll end up with toasted tyres before the last race starts.

Also what about

3-23a Privateers Cup
The undercutting of the gearbox drive dogs or machining of gears is optional..

I know this is my lack of knowledge, but why is machining of gears still considered necessary? Some modern bikes already come with undercut gears and in the game of controlling costs - why not just keep the gearbox standard.

[sinfull]

So Bill what Suspension (Back and Front) do you run , also what brand,type, and compound tyres do you run. Most "serious" racers with superbikes only get a race out of their back tyres !

And your mate on the 600 whats his suspension tyre brand compound setup?

A guy showed up at the last testday at Mafield with new rubber on his GSXR 750 and he had really good suspension but still managed to really mess up his rear tyre? Why do you think this happend?





Gezz Robert talk about quoteing something without all the information!

The 1050 is totally stock and when i did the set up i had a near perfect 30mm rider and 8 static sag (lucky aye)
Running racetecs k1 k2 and after doing qual. and race 1 felt it letting go a few times in race 2 total of 15 laps !
Mates 600, we tried to do a set up at a bernard track day and it was totally up the shit !
To get the correct rider sag we lost all static, so told him to change the spring rate ! (yet to do that, but the 600 spring was obviously for a skinny bloke) Have to wonder that if he does the spring whether the valving would work correctly as Robert said mate, ya have to wonder !
I've learnt a little about comp and rebound valving of late and know the triumph is still lacking, but i'm getting away with it !
Wonder if it will be the same when i get an F2 bike !

Have to argue that the guy on the 750 aint come to terms with the science of suspension yet and his settings were all up the shit !

[GSVR]

The 1050 is totally stock and when i did the set up i had a near perfect 30mm rider and 8 static sag (lucky aye)
Running racetecs k1 k2 and after doing qual. and race 1 felt it letting go a few times in race 2 total of 15 laps !
Mates 600, we tried to do a set up at a bernard track day and it was totally up the shit !
To get the correct rider sag we lost all static, so told him to change the spring rate ! (yet to do that, but the 600 spring was obviously for a skinny bloke) Have to wonder that if he does the spring whether the valving would work correctly as Robert said mate, ya have to wonder !
I've learnt a little about comp and rebound valving of late and know the triumph is still lacking, but i'm getting away with it !
Wonder if it will be the same when i get an F2 bike !

Have to argue that the guy on the 750 aint come to terms with the science of suspension yet and his settings were all up the shit !

So your running "stock suspension" Thanks for that. When you actually start riding fast you'll need new fork internals and a TTX Not that I would know as I "Go Slow Very Readilly" You can go alot faster but you have shown that stock suspension doesn't always chew tyres out in "15 laps"

The guy on the 750 chewed his rear tyre out most probably becuase the track was cold and he had a fairly soft tyre. Could have been suspension settings but track temp soft tyre more likely. If he had waited till later in the day when the temp raised before going out he may not have had an issue.

The guy with the 600 seems to have other issues with his suspension as well as maybe tyre pressures and compound. You can't just say its becuase he didn't have Ohlins,WP or Penske his bike was wearing tyres. Was he a fast rider who had done many trackdays?

Another thing is the forks on some/most 600s need just as much work as the back so is the Privateers class going to allow the right "expensive" internals to be fitted?

The most significant factor in tyrewear is horsepower. More power transmitted more tyre wear for any given tyre.

Tyre wear is minimal on Streetstock then Protwin, Supersport, and Superbike with the most. The best place for rules for a stock bike with a few cheap mods would have been ProTwin with control street tyres.


SVS the primary reason for undercutting gearboxes is to repair rounded dogs and stop them jumping out of gear right? When undercut the gearbox shifting can become slicker.

[brads]

Crikey,all this talk and we havent seen the proposed SBK rules yet,thats going to be interesting,trust me.remember to contact MNZ with your concerns about rule changes.

[Tony.OK]

Crikey,all this talk and we havent seen the proposed SBK rules yet,thats going to be interesting,trust me.remember to contact MNZ with your concerns about rule changes.

They're there too.......
http://www.mnz.co.nz/Proposed_Rule_Changes.aspx#road

Stock valves
Stock cams
Stock harness

Minimal engine work allowed

Be interesting where that takes the HP game...

And if that applies to bikes upto 5 yrs old.......doe's that disqualify the current bikes? Ed better get on the ph mate!

[sinfull]

So your running "stock suspension" Thanks for that. When you actually start riding fast you'll need new fork internals and a TTX Not that I would know as I "Go Slow Very Readilly" You can go alot faster but you have shown that stock suspension doesn't always chew tyres out in "15 laps"

The guy on the 750 chewed his rear tyre out most probably becuase the track was cold and he had a fairly soft tyre. Could have been suspension settings but track temp soft tyre more likely. If he had waited till later in the day when the temp raised before going out he may not have had an issue.

The guy with the 600 seems to have other issues with his suspension as well as maybe tyre pressures and compound. You can't just say its becuase he didn't have Ohlins,WP or Penske his bike was wearing tyres. Was he a fast rider who had done many trackdays?

Another thing is the forks on some/most 600s need just as much work as the back so is the Privateers class going to allow the right "expensive" internals to be fitted?

The most significant factor in tyrewear is horsepower. More power transmitted more tyre wear for any given tyre.

Tyre wear is minimal on Streetstock then Protwin, Supersport, and Superbike with the most. The best place for rules for a stock bike with a few cheap mods would have been ProTwin with control street tyres.


SVS the primary reason for undercutting gearboxes is to repair rounded dogs and stop them jumping out of gear right? When undercut the gearbox shifting can become slicker.

Sorry for the delay, site was down so i went and swaped exhausts !
Not arguing with ya re leaving things stock as possible, i like the idea but 50% of the guys that would want to do privateers would already have internals done, how ya gonna police it !
Dallas is getting quicker daily and (on my present bike) i aint gonna hold him to 2nd for much longer ! We are both still around 6 seconds off F2 pace (be mid field now going by PMCC R3 times) whats gonna happen when he gets up to pace on that 600 (wont take long) it aint rocket science that if he don't change his tyre every start, the tyres aint gonna keep him upright !
Privateer = going it alone without finacial support Correct ? Means ya scavaging tyres half the time aye ! I'd love to be using the tyres i bought second hand, but i'm scared to cause my comp and rebound clickers do diddly squat as far as adjustment go, its either full in or full out to notice any change !
Already stated that we tried to set up sags for him and it really is way up the shit for his wieght, So it will need seeing to !
Whats wrong with allowing revalving ? It's a well known fact that 90% of stock suspension is very basic and the minute you take that bike off the road and onto a track it dosen't cut the mustard (once you get up to pace) and it will stop any shit fights when one racer says, well the winners shock and forks must be revalved ! I want to protest ! Who does it cost then ? (To tear the shock and forks out and have it checked) the winner, who busted his arse trying to win ! Only to have to pay out coin to have it proven it aint !

[Tony.OK]

Just read the other SBK update for 2010

Theres a Prod SBK class in there
No engine work
Slipon exhaust only
PC3 allowed
Susp same as SBK
Dot tyres to be used, W rated
Stock intake and velocity stacks

Even my bikes got too much on it for that

[Maido]

Apart from the rear shock issue it doesn't seem so bad. I can say first hand that a poorly set up shock can destroy a rear tyre - and you don't notice this untill you start going a bit faster.

What's cheaper over a season? $1500 on a decent shock setup, or rear tyres lasting 10 laps at $500 a pop? (plus extra crash money)

And I imagine they'll also have restrictions about how many tyres you can use in a weekend which would mean if your suspension isn't set up correctly you'll end up with toasted tyres before the last race starts.

Also what about


I know this is my lack of knowledge, but why is machining of gears still considered necessary? Some modern bikes already come with undercut gears and in the game of controlling costs - why not just keep the gearbox standard.

I run my gearbox std now, I know for a fact that some brands are prone to slipping or not engaging correctly, this is due to the design of the gear dogs. Basically you are creating a slight angle like a dovetail joint to allow the gears to engage correctly. This isn't exactly a performance enhancement, but also a saftey thing. (hitting a false neutral with someone slipstreamaing isn't good)

Mishy summed it up in another thread:

Originally Posted by Mishy
I'm totally in favour of undercutting the dogs in the grearbox, and it's just a way of making sure that you don't have a failure on the track- like a bike that jumps out of gear. Indexing is also important , so I think It's a good idea to do both any time you have the bike apart. We run a 600 SP bike, and won't even hit the track without undercutting and indexing the gearbox first. The undercutting makes the dogs in the gearbox drag the gears together, rather than let them slide apart, while indexng ensures that all the dogs contact at the same time. We had some "issues" with a Kawasaki gearbox, and I had to do this by hand with a dremel (at midnight on a race weekend - gutted !). The stock box was so bad that my effort was closer than some of the other gears in the box. It's not uncommon for the original gears to be a mile off, and having very little undercut makes them shift into 1st real clean and smooth (nice on a road bike), but it's not good if you want a race gearbox to last - you need undercut for that.
Cam sprockets? I'm not so sure I agree with the rule on that, but then I don't make the rules . . . . . .

[Shaun P]

The 1050 is totally stock and when i did the set up i had a near perfect 30mm rider and 8 static sag (lucky aye)
Running racetecs k1 k2 and after doing qual. and race 1 felt it letting go a few times in race 2 total of 15 laps !
Mates 600, we tried to do a set up at a bernard track day and it was totally up the shit !
To get the correct rider sag we lost all static, so told him to change the spring rate ! (yet to do that, but the 600 spring was obviously for a skinny bloke) Have to wonder that if he does the spring whether the valving would work correctly as Robert said mate, ya have to wonder !
I've learnt a little about comp and rebound valving of late and know the triumph is still lacking, but i'm getting away with it !
Wonder if it will be the same when i get an F2 bike !

Have to argue that the guy on the 750 aint come to terms with the science of suspension yet and his settings were all up the shit !

The other thing that can happen is when you put a harder spring in a standard oem shock it can over heat and fade quite rapidly.

[Shaun P]

Just read the other SBK update for 2010

Theres a Prod SBK class in there
No engine work
Slipon exhaust only
PC3 allowed
Susp same as SBK
Dot tyres to be used, W rated
Stock intake and velocity stacks

Even my bikes got too much on it for that

Its getting interesting now!

[Tony.OK]

Its getting interesting now!

Isn't it...................I don't know what to do with my bike now

Keep all my suspension and update to a stock 08/09 Blade and go Prod SBK?

[svs]

SVS the primary reason for undercutting gearboxes is to repair rounded dogs and stop them jumping out of gear right? When undercut the gearbox shifting can become slicker.

Yep. I know the reason - but is it actually required on modern bikes? We're talking about keeping the engine as stock as possible - why not the gearbox?

Or is the rule there just to allow repairs?

[Robert Taylor]

So Bill what Suspension (Back and Front) do you run , also what brand,type, and compound tyres do you run. Most "serious" racers with superbikes only get a race out of their back tyres !

And your mate on the 600 whats his suspension tyre brand compound setup?

A guy showed up at the last testday at Mafield with new rubber on his GSXR 750 and he had really good suspension but still managed to really mess up his rear tyre? Why do you think this happend?





Gezz Robert talk about quoteing something without all the information!

I dont have screeds of time like you appear to have.