What's this I spy?

[Danger Dave]

Just read the other SBK update for 2010

Theres a Prod SBK class in there
No engine work
Slipon exhaust only
PC3 allowed
Susp same as SBK
Dot tyres to be used, W rated
Stock intake and velocity stacks

Even my bikes got too much on it for that

i like all these proposed changes except the exhaust mod, i think that should be open

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry for the delay, site was down so i went and swaped exhausts !
Not arguing with ya re leaving things stock as possible, i like the idea but 50% of the guys that would want to do privateers would already have internals done, how ya gonna police it !
Dallas is getting quicker daily and (on my present bike) i aint gonna hold him to 2nd for much longer ! We are both still around 6 seconds off F2 pace (be mid field now going by PMCC R3 times) whats gonna happen when he gets up to pace on that 600 (wont take long) it aint rocket science that if he don't change his tyre every start, the tyres aint gonna keep him upright !
Privateer = going it alone without finacial support Correct ? Means ya scavaging tyres half the time aye ! I'd love to be using the tyres i bought second hand, but i'm scared to cause my comp and rebound clickers do diddly squat as far as adjustment go, its either full in or full out to notice any change !
Already stated that we tried to set up sags for him and it really is way up the shit for his wieght, So it will need seeing to !
Whats wrong with allowing revalving ? It's a well known fact that 90% of stock suspension is very basic and the minute you take that bike off the road and onto a track it dosen't cut the mustard (once you get up to pace) and it will stop any shit fights when one racer says, well the winners shock and forks must be revalved ! I want to protest ! Who does it cost then ? (To tear the shock and forks out and have it checked) the winner, who busted his arse trying to win ! Only to have to pay out coin to have it proven it aint !

Exactly re revalving and it would minimise the amount of scutineering required. Stock shocks are far more likely to burn up tyres because more so they are set for road use. Undeniable fact. If you dont spend a little money on them on the number 1 issue then you are going to spend more money elsewhere ( tyres ) Undeniable fact.
Facts that just about everyone who has posted on this thread accept.
Another point, stock shocks do not have a spec card, in order to record the standard spec of each shock a new one for every make and model likely to be raced would have to be pulled apart and all of the settings / valving etc measured. Who pays for that?

[svs]

I run my gearbox std now, I know for a fact that some brands are prone to slipping or not engaging correctly, this is due to the design of the gear dogs. Basically you are creating a slight angle like a dovetail joint to allow the gears to engage correctly. This isn't exactly a performance enhancement, but also a saftey thing. (hitting a false neutral with someone slipstreamaing isn't good)

Mishy summed it up in another thread:

cool, thanks. That is what i was after

[Robert Taylor]

So your running "stock suspension" Thanks for that. When you actually start riding fast you'll need new fork internals and a TTX Not that I would know as I "Go Slow Very Readilly" You can go alot faster but you have shown that stock suspension doesn't always chew tyres out in "15 laps"

The guy on the 750 chewed his rear tyre out most probably becuase the track was cold and he had a fairly soft tyre. Could have been suspension settings but track temp soft tyre more likely. If he had waited till later in the day when the temp raised before going out he may not have had an issue.

The guy with the 600 seems to have other issues with his suspension as well as maybe tyre pressures and compound. You can't just say its becuase he didn't have Ohlins,WP or Penske his bike was wearing tyres. Was he a fast rider who had done many trackdays?

Another thing is the forks on some/most 600s need just as much work as the back so is the Privateers class going to allow the right "expensive" internals to be fitted?

The most significant factor in tyrewear is horsepower. More power transmitted more tyre wear for any given tyre.

Tyre wear is minimal on Streetstock then Protwin, Supersport, and Superbike with the most. The best place for rules for a stock bike with a few cheap mods would have been ProTwin with control street tyres.


SVS the primary reason for undercutting gearboxes is to repair rounded dogs and stop them jumping out of gear right? When undercut the gearbox shifting can become slicker.

Mate, a chip on both shoulders equals well balanced! Make the bikes slow and fit wooden tyres. That may be a template for racing in Cuba but I dont yet think our living standards are that low.
Most racers actually want to go faster and thrive on good setup and inhabit a world thats a little different to you. Evidence the posts.

[Shaun P]

i like all these proposed changes except the exhaust mod, i think that should be open

8-24 Exhaust system manufacture optional. May be four into one or a two into one system.

8-24a NZ PCM
Exhaust system, Slip on muffler only, standard header must be retained although pollution mechanisms may be removed. Only a stainless or Alloy muffler may be used.

Its actually a big cost saving and theres nothing wrong with std type headers either, there is still the option for full exhaust in Production Superbike rules. They look to be well thought out rules, but as for running class together with slicks vs road race tyres is questionable.

[svs]

3-26a Privateers Cup.
Standard headers must remain standard for that year homologated model,
Muffler may be replaced with stainless or Alloy product only.

Only other constructive comment I have is what about catalytic converters?

Would these have to remain in place, or could they replaced by a short length of pipe?

I think rule needs clarification as it falls between the headers and the muffler, and if it can be removed, then people will remove it as it saves a load of weight.

Now to put all these into an email to vicki@mnz

[Shaun P]

Only other constructive comment I have is what about catalytic converters?

Would these have to remain in place, or could they replaced by a short length of pipe?

I think rule needs clarification as it falls between the headers and the muffler, and if it can be removed, then people will remove it as it saves a load of weight.

Now to put all these into an email to vicki@mnz

That is for 600's although the 1000's is worded better

8-24a NZ PCM
Exhaust system, Slip on muffler only, standard header must be retained although pollution mechanisms may be removed. Only a stainless or Alloy muffler may be used.

[Robert Taylor]

8-24 Exhaust system manufacture optional. May be four into one or a two into one system.

8-24a NZ PCM
Exhaust system, Slip on muffler only, standard header must be retained although pollution mechanisms may be removed. Only a stainless or Alloy muffler may be used.

Its actually a big cost saving and theres nothing wrong with std type headers either, there is still the option for full exhaust in Production Superbike rules. They look to be well thought out rules, but as for running class together with slicks vs road race tyres is questionable.

A lot of lapping would be done with the inevitable extra hazard element. Safety should NEVER be compromised.
The Superbike races at Paeroa were an extreme example of a backmarker problem. I make no apology to the rider involved, there was a ''streetfighter'' bike in the Superbike field that on at least one occassion when he was lapped was a clear danger to the riders that first lapped him. I watched this and it was very lucky there wasnt an incident that could have bought down Craig and / or Gareth. When there is a big discrepancy between speed and skill we have major safety issues.

[brads]

If they choose to go to an unsuitable tyre it may chew out very quickly this happens with the best of suspensions. If they choose a harder more robust compound the tyres will last but at the expense of less grip.

In MotoGP they have tyres that are so sticky and grippy they bearly last a lap right?

In Superbikes the bikes slide around alot and this is where the skilled riders come to the fore.

It would not be a bad thing if the bikes had less grip and moved around more infact it would develop bike handling skills in the riders before moving to a really grippy situation where the bike bites back hard.

Mate,youve got so much to say about tyres and suapension thats its clear youve missed your calling!
The Ohlins and Bridgestone technicions could sure use your halp in Moto GP and SBK,you might even be able to show them how to do things on the cheap.
Why dont you forward them your CV??

[GSVR]

Sorry for the delay, site was down so i went and swaped exhausts !
Not arguing with ya re leaving things stock as possible, i like the idea but 50% of the guys that would want to do privateers would already have internals done, how ya gonna police it !

These are guys that do the Nationals your talking about? Club racing will still be F2 rules for some time I'm picking.

Dallas is getting quicker daily and (on my present bike) i aint gonna hold him to 2nd for much longer ! We are both still around 6 seconds off F2 pace (be mid field now going by PMCC R3 times) whats gonna happen when he gets up to pace on that 600 (wont take long) it aint rocket science that if he don't change his tyre every start, the tyres aint gonna keep him upright !
Privateer = going it alone without finacial support Correct ?

Privateer is someone without Factory backing. ie Suzuki, Yamaha ,Truimph etc don't supply a works bike and spare engines and parts


Means ya scavaging tyres half the time aye ! I'd love to be using the tyres i bought second hand, but i'm scared to cause my comp and rebound clickers do diddly squat as far as adjustment go, its either full in or full out to notice any change !

So is the bike better with them wound full in or full out? Serious question

Already stated that we tried to set up sags for him and it really is way up the shit for his wieght, So it will need seeing to !
Whats wrong with allowing revalving ?

Well when you take revalving to its logical extreme you end up getting your shock revalved for track your racing on. Move to a different track and you may have to revalve again. Change the spring and you may have to revalve again. Wet meeting a revalved shock with softer spring might work better. Do you really want to do all this work every meeting to set your bike up like the top guns will if they run in this class. Keeping it simple will discourage class burglars as they wont have as many tricks to get more speed than the novices.




It's a well known fact that 90% of stock suspension is very basic and the minute you take that bike off the road and onto a track it dosen't cut the mustard (once you get up to pace) and it will stop any shit fights when one racer says, well the winners shock and forks must be revalved ! I want to protest ! Who does it cost then ? (To tear the shock and forks out and have it checked) the winner, who busted his arse trying to win ! Only to have to pay out coin to have it proven it aint !

You should check up on the protest process. In the past motors have been pulled apart and the bikes owner gets it back in bits and a replacement head gasket. Usually making a modification illegal is enough deterent for all but the stupid. Some racers havent even read the rules they buy a bike and assume its legal. As I have said previously only suspension techs can really revalve as you need parts replaced and orifices machined and have to recharge the shock etc. So if they don't perform illegal work we will all be ok. Would you consider revalving your own shock?

If the Privateer class did alllow almost no mods then bikes would be going slower. We all want to go as fast as possible right so whats the point of a privateer class? TIC

[brads]

If the Privateer class did alllow almost no mods then bikes would be going slower. We all want to go as fast as possible right so whats the point of a privateer class? TIC

So with the proposed privateer rules,how many guys do you think will/can be riding them to there limit?
As Ive said somewhere on here before under these rules you can be within 2/3 seconds a lap of the leaders,Even closer if you no what your doing, if your 6/10 seconds off you maybe shoud be thinking of another class.

[GSVR]

So with the proposed privateer rules,how many guys do you think will/can be riding them to there limit?
As Ive said somewhere on here before under these rules you can be within 2/3 seconds a lap of the leaders,Even closer if you no what your doing, if your 6/10 seconds off you maybe shoud be thinking of another class.

I think that if you going to be lapped at the nationals you should pull off the track. Seen a few race outcomes lately influenced by backmarkers.

If you where 6 seconds off the pace your going to be lapped at the most important part of the race for the people battling for the win.

So why not make the privateers cup for anyone without factory backing and have no rule changes?

[GSVR]

Just read the other SBK update for 2010

Theres a Prod SBK class in there
No engine work
Slipon exhaust only
PC3 allowed
Susp same as SBK
Dot tyres to be used, W rated
Stock intake and velocity stacks

Even my bikes got too much on it for that

These rules seem perfect for this class. Wouldn't change anything here.

Edit: Maybe the Dot tyres for Slicks. Market to get tyres off top SBK riders and they wear better than stuff with tread.

[sinfull]

If the Privateer class did alllow almost no mods then bikes would be going slower. We all want to go as fast as possible right so whats the point of a privateer class? TIC

So if i wanted to enter the nats as a privateer this year i have to make a decision then aye !
whether to upgrade my suspension and headers and loom and and and awww fuck it i'm back to needing two fucking bikes lol, one for club racing and one for the nationals
Flag the privateers cup then, chances of me winnin anything is next to farrrk all, so i'll just be making my bike go as fast as i can make it go, while trying hard to keep rubber side down ! So that will prolly include suspension, exhaust, and whatever else i feel like changing !
If i manage to get my times down to the point where i wont be lapped in the nats i might just do that too !

[brads]

9 bikes on the grid this year,who knows next year? I think its a good idea to get people into(lets hope it works) the SBK class without spending a shitload of money that would be wasted anyway.