What's this I spy?

[DVS 69]

Far what a mean read up ive read from the front page and i just hope that any mods i get done dont ruin my chances to run in f2 or what ever. I do like the fact ive got sinfull wondering what he can do to hold me out abit longer . Being the person being talked about in sum of the posts i dont really know what to say ......... I been riding 16 years never owned a car, ive probibly been doing trackdays etc for the last 5 or 6 years. Wanting to get faster and getting faster is a ongoing thing and the peg is always moving, im at the stage now where i do want sum good gear eg suspention. Having spoken to lots and lots of racers and ex racers they say the biggest improvement you can make is suspention ??!! Im confused

[sinfull]

I do like the fact ive got sinfull wondering what he can do to hold me out abit longer .

Ba doom tchish !

From Bikes to be had

Im confused

So am i mate ! Not sure if these privateer rules will be for all F2, ie: the club racing as well yet, or if its just for the nationals ! Sounds like it's just the nationals but watching and waiting !

[wharfy]

Ba doom tchish !

From Bikes to be had

So am i mate ! Not sure if these privateer rules will be for all F2, ie: the club racing as well yet, or if its just for the nationals ! Sounds like it's just the nationals but watching and waiting !

My understanding is they will be a NATIONAL class run in conjunction with 600SP/F2/F1.
Clubs have not changed anything as far as I know. Also they are still "proposed" at this stage are they not ?

[wharfy]

Far what a mean read up ive read from the front page and i just hope that any mods i get done dont ruin my chances to run in f2 or what ever. I do like the fact ive got sinfull wondering what he can do to hold me out abit longer . Being the person being talked about in sum of the posts i dont really know what to say ......... I been riding 16 years never owned a car, ive probibly been doing trackdays etc for the last 5 or 6 years. Wanting to get faster and getting faster is a ongoing thing and the peg is always moving, im at the stage now where i do want sum good gear eg suspention. Having spoken to lots and lots of racers and ex racers they say the biggest improvement you can make is suspention ??!! Im confused

Depends on your baseline. I got an Ohlins shock and RaceTech sping & valve kit on my Hornet and it transformed the bike. But the original shock & forks where bargain bin items and were pretty much crap.
My Daytona 675 on the other hand has got standard suspension and is way better than the Hornet - even after the mods to the Hornet suspension.

Admittedly I am not pushing it hard (yet ) but the standard stuff is not shit. Of course if I fancied my chances of taking out a National title I probably would not be using a Daytona (its about 20+ HP down on the other 600 class bikes)

[svs]

Admittedly I am not pushing it hard (yet ) but the standard stuff is not shit. Of course if I fancied my chances of taking out a National title I probably would not be using a Daytona (its about 20+ HP down on the other 600 class bikes)

rubbish it's a few hp down, but has more torque out of corners. may loose a little at the end of a long straight.

Look at results from ruapuna this year, then look at sound of thunder results - a certain jamie galway lapped faster on his older 675 than his '08 R6.

My R6 is putting out similar hp at rear wheel to Nick O's 675's.

If i could trade the R6 for a 675 I would

[Robert Taylor]

rubbish it's a few hp down, but has more torque out of corners. may loose a little at the end of a long straight.

Look at results from ruapuna this year, then look at sound of thunder results - a certain jamie galway lapped faster on his older 675 than his '08 R6.

My R6 is putting out similar hp at rear wheel to Nick O's 675's.

If i could trade the R6 for a 675 I would

I like Triumph 675s, great torquey motor and a whole heap nicer to ride than an R6. If I still had a hankering to ride motorcycles Id buy a 675, no contest.
With all respect to Jamie there were periods during the Nationals when he just wasnt on his game and I think that also may have coincided with the Ruapuna round, I think he may have been carrying an injury.Irrespective he wasnt up to speed at that round.
When comparing apples with apples the ''biological component'' ( the rider ) can vary greatly, more so in a country where ALL the racers are part timers, so they are not finely honed and consistently fast as is a full time rider at the top of his game.
Within the bounds of our 600 rules it appears that the R6 is actually a faster racebike, but the only way of conclusively proving that would be to have examples of each fully setup and the same rider. Same tracks, same day. In WSS600 the Triumph has had flashes of brilliance but the results just arent there. Engine, suspension, reliability issues, who knows.
Im still amazed that the naked offshoot has been accorded ''bike of the year'' in one of the publications. Much like the faired version its okay on smooth roads but get it on bumpy roads that cause longer suspension stroke movements and you find out very quickly how over-aggressive the rear linkage ratio is. Chiropractor material.
Dan Ornsbys 675 was most consistently the fastest example around Ruapuna at SOT, not in top speed / grunt but overall.

[wharfy]

rubbish it's a few hp down, but has more torque out of corners. may loose a little at the end of a long straight.

Look at results from ruapuna this year, then look at sound of thunder results - a certain jamie galway lapped faster on his older 675 than his '08 R6.

My R6 is putting out similar hp at rear wheel to Nick O's 675's.

If i could trade the R6 for a 675 I would

I was at SOT this year and indeed the 675's DOMINATED well not mine ( I was the slowest 675 rider there )
Daniel Ormsby on the other hand won every race he entered but his lap times were several seconds of of the pace of the Nationals 600 class. I don't know if Daniel Ormsby was racing a 675 at the Nationals but he qualified 7th was 8th in both races. My only mod is a Harris pipe and on Mr Harris's dyno it is 114 at the rear wheel. (as opposed to 104 standard)

The Galway 675 has had a LOT of money spent on it, I have no idea what HP it is at the treads though.

I would of course be VERY interested to see rear wheel HP figures for the top 10 600's
and naturally would love to see a whole bunch of 675's racing.
One of the reasons I got one was because of the torque so when I cock up a corner and am coming out in the wrong gear it won't be quite so obvious
The other is that I can race in heaps of classes B.E.A.R.s 600sp/F2 and even F1 if I was REALLY keen

But I still don't see anyone campaigning them for the National series.

[Maido]

I will post my 600's HP graph if you want (it is at work, so can't get it till monday), you will be supprised how much they don't have compared to what you think they might have.

[Robert Taylor]

I will post my 600's HP graph if you want (it is at work, so can't get it till monday), you will be supprised how much they don't have compared to what you think they might have.

Of course, dynos are only comparitors, no two are the same and you can get widely disparit figures from one end of the country to the other. It wouldnt matter if the measurement unit was bananas, as long as you were using the same dyno.
You can also amp up the figures by placing the air intake temp sensor in a hot place like behind a radiator. Detectable by the correction factors.

SAE = big value units, lower end number

Japanese DIN = lower value units, bigger end number.

Where was it measured? At the crank, at the output sprocket, at the final driven sprocket or off a drum driven by the rear wheel? Slippage? ETC....

Pamphlet horsepower = great for sales

Pub horsepower = ''mines bigger than yours mentality''

Incidentally Dans bike at the SOT was demonstrably not fast in a straight line ( stock motor ) but he made up for all of that and some in braking and corner speed ( Swedish suspension at both ends ) Horsepower is not everything but it does usually help.

For my money Id love to see someone like Craig Shirriffs on a fully worked 675 or 1198.

[Mishy]

Good sportsmen don't cheat so is our sport full of poor sportsmen who have no issue with cheating at every opportunity?

Go back to the bad old days of 250 production for your answers. Lots of people keep pushing the "real production bikes like we used to have" button, and the truth is that cheating was RAMPANT 10 or 15 years ago in most production classes, and it's actually FAIRER now. I've seen faxes (misdirected ones) from prominent production racers giving instructions on how to fit F3 ignitions to RGV250's, and how to jet for the same ignition, and what to do to the pipes. Cheating is as old as bike racing is, and many of your heroes did it too.
One thing is true - the more you try to regulate, the more scope there is for a clever "interpretation" of the rules.

[Mishy]

I would of course be VERY interested to see rear wheel HP figures for the top 10 600's [/I][/B].

Well, i can tell you that Our R6 (Jay's bike) made 126 banana's on one dyno, and 117 on the one i normally use. And that's where the problem is - thay all measure differently. We refer to the output as "banana's" because they are only relevant to the individual dyno the measurement was taken on, so if you don't know which dyno i use, you will have no idea whether 117 banana's is good or bad.
Whatever the number, they are all FREAKING fast ! and the Jap bikes rule peak horsepower !

[wharfy]

Well, i can tell you that Our R6 (Jay's bike) made 126 banana's on one dyno, and 117 on the one i normally use. And that's where the problem is - thay all measure differently. We refer to the output as "banana's" because they are only relevant to the individual dyno the measurement was taken on, so if you don't know which dyno i use, you will have no idea whether 117 banana's is good or bad.
Whatever the number, they are all FREAKING fast ! and the Jap bikes rule peak horsepower !

Hey what Dyno showed 126 - I want to use that one !!!

The one that showed the 675 at 114 HP is the same one I had the Hornet on last year and it showed 107 HP. I could not resist hanging about to see what the next couple of bikes made, a Speed triple and a late model Moto Guzzi 1100 sports, both were in the low 90 HP range so I felt quite smug

[GSVR]

Well, i can tell you that Our R6 (Jay's bike) made 126 banana's on one dyno, and 117 on the one i normally use. And that's where the problem is - thay all measure differently. We refer to the output as "banana's" because they are only relevant to the individual dyno the measurement was taken on, so if you don't know which dyno i use, you will have no idea whether 117 banana's is good or bad.
Whatever the number, they are all FREAKING fast ! and the Jap bikes rule peak horsepower !

I think the dynos days may limited as a tuning tool. They don't take alot of things into account like the ram air effect most modern sportsbikes exploite. They aren't accurate although Triple Rs one must be more comparatively accurate than most.

GPS based logging systems and Motec like ECUs are the way forward here I think.