Tyrewarmer ban.

[GSVR]

Shouldn't tyre manufacturers be developing tyres that grip just was well when cold as when hot.
Yeap tyres like that would be awesome for road and track alike
Manufacturers use motoracing to develop and show off products and technologies that eventually make it to the road going vehicles. How many people have tire warmers fitted to their roadbike or car before they go out for a ride or drive.
The use of tyrewarmers is doing nothing for the development of road tyres and the rubber being delevoped has no real world use except for the racetrack.
Not "nothing" as theres alot more to tyre development then just the compound.
If tyrewarmers where banned and tires had to be fitted at ambient temp the tyres developed would instantly be of benefit for roadusers.
Aint that the truth but whats this going to do to F1 racing?
When do you think tyrewarmers may be banned in WSBK for example? It may be sooner than you think!
I can't see it happening until better compounds are developed
When tyrewarmers are banned in Formula 1 how many years later will the same happen in MotoGP or are the two so completely different that the comparsion is irrelevant.
Well if a F1 car loses grip due to cold tyres it might just spin out. If a bike rider loses grip there is a far greater chance of a crash. Its not totally irrelevant and very relevant to road riders that never use tyrewarmers

Well its really got me baffled as to why F1 wants to ban them. Or has it.

[brads]

Shouldn't tyre manufacturers be developing tyres that grip just was well when cold as when hot. Manufacturers use motoracing to develop and show off products and technologies that eventually make it to the road going vehicles. How many people have tire warmers fitted to their roadbike or car before they go out for a ride or drive.

The use of tyrewarmers is doing nothing for the development of road tyres and the rubber being delevoped has no real world use except for the racetrack. If tyrewarmers where banned and tires had to be fitted at ambient temp the tyres developed would instantly be of benefit for roadusers.

When do you think tyrewarmers may be banned in WSBK for example? It may be sooner than you think! When tyrewarmers are banned in Formula 1 how many years later will the same happen in MotoGP or are the two so completely different that the comparsion is irrelevant.

Holy shit dude,you been smoking some weird shit today or what??

[FROSTY:Me]

Holy shit dude,you been smoking some weird shit today or what??

No man --go back read it slowly he has a good point

[scuzeme]

If "they" developed a tyre like that, it would prolly only last a couple of laps mate, as with everything there is usually a compromise/trade off bewteen performance and longevity.
Lets not forget tyrewarmers save you and i from lowsides and highsides.
Tyres need heat to settle into their optimum operation range.

Respectfully am i ignorant or are you taking the piss?

[AllanB]

Ah, yep I'll have what he's having please.

Places thumb and forefinger together, lifts hand to mouth and makes a loud inhaling sound .........

Back to reality.

Street tyres. A compromise between warm-up, stick and life. Today we have a fairly wide choice of very good rubber that will excel in two of the three above or rubber that is very good for all three.

Racing Tyres. A compromise between warm-up, stick and life. These are designed for R A C I N G not fatting around the Coro loop, Akaroa GP etc. Lets face it WSB or Moto GP riders don't give a shit about how slowly YOUR road tyres warm up, stick or wear as it is totally irrelevant to their profession.

What you and I get out of the pure race tyre development for these pros is high tech, better street tyres.

Today's tyres are superb. I can only imagine what they will be like in 10 years - possibility Fi-Wi inbuilt heating strips (like underfloor heating) to pre-warm your ride

[johan]

In my home country it's compulsory to change tyres as winter approaches, or you will get fined.

You always own two sets of rims and tyres.

Normal (summer) tyres just won't give you enough grip in sub zero temperatures.

The same applies the other way around.

Today's tyres can only operate reliably in a narrow temperature bracket.

In this country, they close down roads if there's an inch of snow on it...

I'm sure motogp/wsbk/v8 will help tyre manufactures to understand how their compounds reacts and works in different environments.

[MaxCannon]

While all the guys on fancy pants bikes with flash stuff like radiators and horsepower are moaning about cold tyres at track days the Bandit with it's sport touring rubber has no trouble finding traction.

It's about horses for courses. A tyre that works well for year round use can't offer the same levels of grip as a sticky compound without sacrificing durability.
Any rubber compound (lets not forget rubber is still a natural product) that could offer maximum grip without warmup would likely be unable to disapate the heat generated by hard use and probably wear out far to quickly.

Assuming you could conquer most of the technical hurdles (and you have to wonder why it hasn't been done yet) the end product would likely be too expensive.

The PR2 I have on the front offers good grip when cold but much better grip when warm.
On the track or on the commute to work I have to let the tyres get a bit of heat or else even modest corner can have the front slide or the back spin up.

[xwhatsit]

Holy shit dude,you been smoking some weird shit today or what??

If "they" developed a tyre like that, it would prolly only last a couple of laps mate, as with everything there is usually a compromise/trade off bewteen performance and longevity.

Ah, yep I'll have what he's having please.

Places thumb and forefinger together, lifts hand to mouth and makes a loud inhaling sound .........

Back to reality.

You guys need to get his point. The whole point is that with tyre warmers banned in WSBK/MotoGP etc., the manufacturers are forced to develop for that exact compromise we have as street riders. They're forced to aim to get as best possible performance as well as best possible cold traction. The tyre tech isn't there at the moment, you're right -- but that's exactly the reason to go down this route, to spur development to better the tyre technology so we don't have this problem.

[GSVR]

You guys need to get his point. The whole point is that with tyre warmers banned in WSBK/MotoGP etc., the manufacturers are forced to develop for that exact compromise we have as street riders. They're forced to aim to get as best possible performance as well as best possible cold traction. The tyre tech isn't there at the moment, you're right -- but that's exactly the reason to go down this route, to spur development to better the tyre technology so we don't have this problem.

Thanks for that. The reason I put the thread up is there is a bit of action going on over this in F1 were I think tyrewarmers where meant to be banned this year but its been delayed to 2010.

Put: Formula 1 tyre warmer ban into Google and you'll get some info.

The ban has been criticised by some drivers and even Micheal Shumacher.

Bridgestone is annoyed that theres a delay so this indicates they may have something or feel tyrewarmers are hindering the development they want to do.

Dunno but its all interesting.

Bikes have a definate problem on cold tyres and it makes the riders job alot harder and important when you don't use them as the grip is not consistant at the beginning of a race. Sprint races on current tyres would mean the tyres never actually heat up to temp and the pressures would change alot too.

[Biggles08]

You guys need to get his point. The whole point is that with tyre warmers banned in WSBK/MotoGP etc., the manufacturers are forced to develop for that exact compromise we have as street riders. They're forced to aim to get as best possible performance as well as best possible cold traction. The tyre tech isn't there at the moment, you're right -- but that's exactly the reason to go down this route, to spur development to better the tyre technology so we don't have this problem.

wrong xwhatsit....these tires you speak of are already availiable....they are called street tires! Tire=warmers much to most peoples miss-understanding are not ONLY for heating the rubber for sticking, they are EQUALY to prevent heat cycles destroying the natural polymers in the rubber. Basically, polymers are a long string of molecules that give the rubber a natural flexibility which is ideal as a substance used for traction (like weed is ideal for smoking). This 'string of molecules' rapidly gets broken down through constant rapid heating and cooling.

So....to maintain the tires NATURAL flexibility tirewarmers are used to maintain a temperature rather than "heat" them....they preserve the life of the tire. As has already been said, street riders don't jump off their bikes and wrap their tires up nice and cozy to do this so they must use a rubber compound more durable and hardy to this abuse...that is why there is so many types of tires availiable for different riding styles...heat resistant types = low grip values whereas fast heating/sticky = low wear life BUT great grip. What you are asking from tire manufacturers is to go against nature and make rubber a super solution to every riding type...this is like asking redbull to give you wingssssssssss....its not physically possible

[scumdog]

How many people have tire warmers fitted to their roadbike or car before they go out for a ride or drive.

.

How many of the above head out on the road and ride/drive at 85%+ of their vehicles capabilities though? (And straight after they ride/drive off)

[Wingnut]

How many of the above head out on the road and ride/drive at 85%+ of their vehicles capabilities though? (And straight after they ride/drive off)

Good point too.

Not to mention that all this development cost will no doubt be passed on to the consumers. There is always going to be a few differences between track and road technology. Its hardly comparing apples with apples is it?

All the same it would be nice to see them develop a tyre that operates just as well cold as it does hot but not at the expence of rider safety. A rule such as this would have to be introduced only once a valid replacement to the status que has been already developed so as not to comprimise safety.

Food for thought though

[GSVR]

So....to maintain the tires NATURAL flexibility tirewarmers are used to maintain a temperature rather than "heat" them....they preserve the life of the tire. As has already been said, street riders don't jump off their bikes and wrap their tires up nice and cozy to do this so they must use a rubber compound more durable and hardy to this abuse...that is why there is so many types of tires availiable for different riding styles...heat resistant types = low grip values whereas fast heating/sticky = low wear life BUT great grip. What you are asking from tire manufacturers is to go against nature and make rubber a super solution to every riding type...this is like asking redbull to give you wingssssssssss....its not physically possible

You may have heard about how the New Dunlop race tyres are very resistant to heat cycling so maybe its not so hard to achieve.

Also do you think theres alot of difference between Pirelli Supercorsa Street compound and the series of compounds on the Supercorsa Pro tyres?

Many guys have been using racetyres on the street for years and are more than happy with the performance. Whats up with that?

[GSVR]

Good point too.

Not to mention that all this development cost will no doubt be passed on to the consumers. There is always going to be a few differences between track and road technology. Its hardly comparing apples with apples is it?

All the same it would be nice to see them develop a tyre that operates just as well cold as it does hot but not at the expence of rider safety. A rule such as this would have to be introduced only once a valid replacement to the status que has been already developed so as not to comprimise safety.

Food for thought though

I think possibly Bridgestone wants this to happen so they can reduce development costs. They must spend huge amounts developing tyre compounds that are only of use for a very small percentage of total production ie The racetrack. And its probably funded by road user tyre sales.

[Biggles08]

You may have heard about how the New Dunlop race tyres are very resistant to heat cycling so maybe its not so hard to achieve.

Also do you think theres alot of difference between Pirelli Supercorsa Street compound and the series of compounds on the Supercorsa Pro tyres?

Many guys have been using racetyres on the street for years and are more than happy with the performance. Whats up with that?

a lot of factors are relevant as to why certain tires perform one way or another BUT there is always a trade off. I havent heard about the D's being more resistant to heat cycles but still it would only be resistant...not proof. Latex is a natural compound which demonstrates certain characteristics....as long as they are using this for the base they will always have these natural characteristics to work with. Maybe a complete synythetic compound may be the answer for the future?