Target those who can pay!

**davereid** · 25th April 2009, 17:15

Originally Posted by T.G.W

I've often wondered why IRD cannot take the fines directly out of pays...

They sort of do. When I was an employer I would get letters from IRD demanding I deducted fines from employees wages, and pay them like I paid the employees PAYE.

Of course as soon as I did so, the worker had virtually no pay - cerainly no more than the dole. So he stopped coming to work. So I stopped paying him and etc etc.

Interestingly, these letters all gave me a minimum figure below which I was not allowed to deduct fines.

This is the same on the dole, the allowable collection rate is tiny - a few cents a week maximum. The dole is already defined as the minimum survivable rate, and a "civilised" government has signed all sorts of conventions that don't allow it to force people into "poverty".

The problem is that you can't get money out of a stone. If there is no money there you are stuffed.

You can't enforce PD or community service, cos if you dont go you just get err fined.

And it costs almost $2k a week to lock someone up, so exactly how do you deal with minor offences ?.

Maybe we just have too many bloody laws.

Ya can't ride a push bike without a helmet, walk the dog without a lead, have a beer on the beach or call an idiot an idiot if he's is in a minority ethnic group.

**peasea** · 25th April 2009, 17:24

Originally Posted by =cJ=

Easy innit, if you break the law, just make sure you display complete, utter comtempt for it and you'll get treated more lightly..

Works for me.

Actually it doesn't, got a 200 buck fine the other day, bugger. However, it's the only one outstanding (well, it's not THAT outstanding, but it's ok) and I'll pay up coz I don't want a hairy-arsed bailiff knocking on my door looking to uplift my stereo or worse.

IRD should be involved with every fine handed down.

**peasea** · 25th April 2009, 17:26

[QUOTE=T.G.W;2044140]

I've often wondered why IRD cannot take the fines directly out of pays...

QUOTE]

They are doing just that to a mate of mine right now. Lucky they didn't take his stuff I say. Just pay the fuckers and it all goes away.

**Ocean1** · 25th April 2009, 18:00

The policy has a familiar feel to it...

Ah, yes, they do the same with every form of taxation, harvest the high yeild targets.

Anyone still of the opinion that traffic fines aren't about revenue?

Didn't think so...

**CookMySock** · 25th April 2009, 18:12

Not all of these fine defaulters are asshole scum-sucking cunts (hehe). There have been a few KBers who were recently set up for misdemeanors they had no part in, and in this case (and maybe some others) there is a good case for telling the gubbermint to ram the fine up its' bum. It's a bit like fighting in public - it's illegal, and no one really approves of it, but the time does come when one has to stand up for ones' self, and then its time to work the loopholes (or come out swinging.)

Steve

**kiwifruit** · 25th April 2009, 18:33

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

Not all of these fine defaulters are asshole scum-sucking cunts (hehe). There have been a few KBers who were recently set up for misdemeanors they had no part in, and in this case (and maybe some others) there is a good case for telling the gubbermint to ram the fine up its' bum. It's a bit like fighting in public - it's illegal, and no one really approves of it, but the time does come when one has to stand up for ones' self, and then its time to work the loopholes (or come out swinging.)

Steve

**Grahameeboy** · 25th April 2009, 18:39

Seems the solution is to stop fines then...would be cheaper for the Govt and the Public...every one is a winner...solved

**Mom** · 25th April 2009, 19:02

People with unpaid fines do get their fines in lumps deducted from their wages, this can only happen when the legal process has been followed by whoever wants the money, Ministry of Justice or whoever. An order is granted in court and then if, and only if they can identify the person that owes the money and identify their employer does a demand for deduction from wages take place. This all costs, not so much money mind...time. It costs time.

It is there for the ones that want to pay (well not want to exactly, but you know what I mean) steps are taken and a process entered into to pay off fines, bit like HP for the naughty. Get another fine and add it to the tab basically.

What gets me about this particular slant on collecting fines outstanding is they are going to actively chase down the ones that have the means to pay. Everyone has the means to pay if they are earning. Even the beneficiaries can afford to pay, they have money coming in, I cant say earning eh. Seems they wont be chasing the dead beats for money though, just the workers.

Dont pay your fines and get away with it seems to be ok, if you leave NZ, or actually dont give a shit.

I dont have any fines outstanding at the moment, my last one was a decent one for parking illegally in the main street here ($45! Robbing wankers, specially as they painted over the almost non existent yellow lines in white a few weeks later!) so this one does not affect me.

If I was in the position I would be pushing for a law change to bring back this wanker, and make him pay!

The biggest fine dodger is Reece William Rosvall, a former Lower Hutt car dealer, who owes $1.8m after being convicted in 1996 for his role in a customs fraud involving 1000 Japanese cars. He now works at a car yard in Australia. He faces arrest if he returns to New Zealand, but cannot be extradited for owing fines.

$1.8M!!! Get him back and get him paying!

**Genestho** · 25th April 2009, 19:59

Originally Posted by davereid

They sort of do. When I was an employer I would get letters from IRD demanding I deducted fines from employees wages, and pay them like I paid the employees PAYE.

Of course as soon as I did so, the worker had virtually no pay - cerainly no more than the dole. So he stopped coming to work. So I stopped paying him and etc etc.

Ahhhh ok! Thanks Dave!!

Hard to, re; no laws...
I scratch my head in disbelief over this one though...only because of the "big picture" message it sends..

Not all fine collectors are lowlifes, I understand some motivations, being the "principal" of not paying, due to beliefs of the "revenue collection" system, or the stand up and be counted types...

Still.... like it or not, supposedly there are enforced consequences for our actions when breaking a law.
How is it we've come to enforcing consequences upon the easy targets, in exchange for letting the "too hard" targets go?
Why are the fines allowed to accumulate, with seemingly no consequence?

It's B.S!
And it would appear, a direct reflection of what is wrong with the "System"

If you look at the same system, the bigger picture...

Accumulate as many criminal convictions you like, chuck it on the tab....lowlifes wriggle out of the consequences while the good buggers, the community - continue to pay.

What's next!!!!?

Actually don't tell me, I might go sit next to the Poli's and join them with my head in the sand ....
(Yea right!

)

**MotoGirl** · 25th April 2009, 20:09

I know a young, unemployed guy whose mother just died and left him with over $45,000 in cash. There's at least another $100,000 coming his way once he receives the inheritance that his mother was to receive from her mother...

This guy owes something stupid like $27,000 in fines (all driving-related) and he just doesn't want to pay them. He is so determined not to pay them that he's volunteering to do time in jail. He figures that a few months out is life is nothing if it means his fines get written off.

**steve_t** · 25th April 2009, 20:16

Originally Posted by MotoGirl

I know a young, unemployed guy whose mother just died and left him with over $45,000 in cash. There's at least another $100,000 coming his way once he receives the inheritance that his mother was to receive from her mother...

This guy owes something stupid like $27,000 in fines (all driving-related) and he just doesn't want to pay them. He is so determined not to pay them that he's volunteering to do time in jail. He figures that a few months out is life is nothing if it means his fines get written off.

What a frickin loser! I hope the inmates give him a 'bum & cake party'. I hear the current inmates bring the cake

**LBD** · 25th April 2009, 21:38

The Government is to focus on collecting fines from those most likely to pay rather than hounding hard-core fine defaulters. The Justice Ministry says collecting debts from defaulters who never pay their fines is expensive and it is too hard to recover the money....

This is govt encouraged anarchy. IMO

**Usarka** · 25th April 2009, 21:54

Originally Posted by davereid

The problem is that you can't get money out of a stone. If there is no money there you are stuffed.

You can't enforce PD or community service, cos if you dont go you just get err fined.

And it costs almost $2k a week to lock someone up, so exactly how do you deal with minor offences ?.