To Robert Taylor and other MNZ bashers

[Robert Taylor]

This is the table that tells part of the story http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statistics/m.../table-20.html just look at the sales figures in the 70's and 80's. Things have picked up lately because of scooter sales.

There were so many people buying bikes then which allowed the importers to spend relatively more money on racing and things like the Marlboro series, Castrol Six Hour and the Nationals under whatever name (Brut series etc) were televised, presumably paid for by sponsorship and advertising. It all came to a grinding halt as the economics of bike sales bit in. That I believe was due to two things, the general downturn and that shift of people's attention to other interests that all compete for our money. The sales figures reflect this shift of attention.

There are just so many things one can do with their money these days and its all getting diluted. The stories of car racing crowds are the same, back in the 50's and 60's crowds were huge when Stirling Moss etc came to town because it was the big event of the time. People still talk fondly of the car racing at Ardmore, Levin etc - now all gone.

The young crowds are now out at the huge turnout boy racer nights for example. Knowing my two offspring (no longer living at home and well in their twenties), they live a totally different life to what I did at that age as they don't even live in the same time zone. Even the young people I have worked with don't typically go to events during the day, they are in bed all day after their big nights out until 7.30am etc. Racers just don't race when these people are alert. You'd need to do a Qatar and have night races perhaps.

I suspect whoever is in charge at MNZ has the impossible task of trying to deal with the amazing and rapid changes that are now occurring in society.

Yes that about sums it up. Now that there are new elected members of MNZ we should see a more rational and balanced approach to the future direction. To think that we can again have the crowds of the 70s is a pipe dream. Some realignment of meetings and dates will be part of the answer.

[Robert Taylor]

Off topic but...

Sorry Dr Bob but the Iron Lady completely destroyed the future of non home owners (i.e. everyone under 35), students from low income familes and anyone north of the M25 in the UK. Gordie Broon hasn't been in power long enough to have caused the complete fuckup that is currently the UK.

People have short memories of how bad Britain was when the tories were in power.


Johan, my sentiments exactly and I've suggested it in the past. Can't see why we're all obsessed about having spectators sat freezing their arse off at the track when they could be sat watching the far better 'on board' bike action on their couch.

I beg to differ, I lived there from 81 through 85 and the realignment / tough medicine was neccessary. I hopped off a plane at Heathrow during a cold February 81 and I can remember vividly the girl on the administraion desk asking me ''what the bloody hell do you want to come here for''. There were 3 million unemployed at that time and I got a job no problem. Sure I had qualifications and skills but I was also prepared to work very hard and that didnt go down so well with some of my English work colleauges after years of socialist / unionist ''the world owes me a living'' conditioning.
MT of course inherited a very broken economy from an outgoing Labour administration that had gone cap in hand to the IMF. Next June ( or earlier ) the incoming David Cameron led Conservative administration will inherit an even worse mess.
And yes I did travel to the North.

Why do we race so much in cold temps? Thats a reasonable question I think.

[Quasievil]

To think that we can again have the crowds of the 70s is a pipe dream. Some realignment of meetings and dates will be part of the answer.

yeah we can bro, but not in anyway related to the current format. Yes realignment of dates and meetings, but the modern world is about entertainment and the fight for that dollar.
I have said elsewhere about my "BIG SHOW" idea until a "BIG SHOW" happens the NZ bike racing scene will basically trumble along with the same catchment of spectators forever.
I still say 4 rounds max for a Nationals event finishing with one "BIG SHOW" held at Hampton Downs with a long weekend of racing, complimented by support races (motards, 4wd race bikes whatever you can pack in) entertainment at night etc etc.

Proof of my argument exists in Paeroa, Wanganui, the Hamilton V8's these events are successful in attracting the public, hence the flow on effect of the dollar, once the dollar is involved it rolls right through the entire NZ racing scene.

Trolling NZ Nationals events throughout the length and breadth of NZ over 3-4 months is a laboured and frankly boring process which does no one any favours.

lol thats my view and Im sticking to it.

[Drew]

OK - lets try another track... Who do you think the selling of motorcycle racing is targeted at? Motorcyclists? If so, what is the biggest demographic of motorcyclists?

Nope, the general public is who we want barred up about this. How many car racers go to watch the Hamilton 400? Fuck all compared to the normal folk.

There needs to be a marketing campeign, with big enough budget to target a MASSIVE audience. 18 to 55 year olds, male and female.

I would guess it needed six different tv ad's to cover those demographic. Full page spreads in a variety of magazines, from womans day, to top gear. FHM, MAXIM, the ones MOST people read like.

Go huge, the spectators will come.

[SixPackBack]

yeah we can bro, but not in anyway related to the current format. Yes realignment of dates and meetings, but the modern world is about entertainment and the fight for that dollar.
I have said elsewhere about my "BIG SHOW" idea until a "BIG SHOW" happens the NZ bike racing scene will basically trumble along with the same catchment of spectators forever.
I still say 4 rounds max for a Nationals event finishing with one "BIG SHOW" held at Hampton Downs with a long weekend of racing, complimented by support races (motards, 4wd race bikes whatever you can pack in) entertainment at night etc etc.

Proof of my argument exists in Paeroa, Wanganui, the Hamilton V8's these events are successful in attracting the public, hence the flow on effect of the dollar, once the dollar is involved it rolls right through the entire NZ racing scene.

Trolling NZ Nationals events throughout the length and breadth of NZ over 3-4 months is a laboured and frankly boring process which does no one any favours.

lol thats my view and Im sticking to it.

Yup you got it Quasi. Throw in some entertainment for children and the wives and get the whole family along.

[Paul in NZ]

Nope, the general public is who we want barred up about this. How many car racers go to watch the Hamilton 400? Fuck all compared to the normal folk.

There needs to be a marketing campeign, with big enough budget to target a MASSIVE audience. 18 to 55 year olds, male and female.

I would guess it needed six different tv ad's to cover those demographic. Full page spreads in a variety of magazines, from womans day, to top gear. FHM, MAXIM, the ones MOST people read like.

Go huge, the spectators will come.

Its not that simple Drew and i think you may have mis understood me.

A certain sector of motorcyclists will always come BUT racing is currently set up to please the racers and not the uniformed spectator who really couldn't give a root what colour the front forks are.... The bikes go past so quick in the short time you can see them that you can't really tell anyway...

However its a tricky job because if you want to attract new crowds you have to do it in a way that does not disenfarnchise your loyal audience which is your basic bread and butter...

One way to increase crowds in the short term is to work in with the organisers of a successful rally and combine the events. That might mean a smaller meeting with better focus on popular (with the crowds) classes of racing. People could have a few beers, camp the night, listen to a band etc. You might need to be clever about the mix of racing though. Look at cricket as an example, the players and purists want the 5 day test match, the public wants 20/20....

If the most popular bike on the road is an HD - HD racing might work (especially if you can get HOG behind it) or Hyosong 250 racing...

An evening event is a good idea. A short Motard / superbike street race / sprint in a city as a promo.

Scooter racing?

Naked cheerleaders on superbikes jumping through burning hoops juggled by latex clad midget clowns if thats what people will pay to see - slip the serious stuff in and who knows people might like it...

OK - heres a question. Say I was the marketing manager of a international or national brand with some coin to spend on an attention grabbing event? Why would I go with motorcycle racing? Answer - I wouldn't because it's about as useful as sponsoring emerging artists, they are so starved of love they just grab all the free food n booze they can and fuck off forgetting that the sponsor needs to show a return on their investment.

Heres another question - the company I work for has a supplier deal with Actrix who sponsor some racing - it's not beyond reason for us to step up and support our customers sponsored events but why would we? There is nothing but pain and grief... I can spend $5,000 on an advert in midget porn monthly and get a better return.

[Quasievil]

Naked cheerleaders on superbikes jumping through burning hoops juggled by latex clad midget clowns if thats what people will pay to see

Hold up hold up, now lets explore this idea further (with pics preferably)

[wharfy]

Naked cheerleaders on superbikes jumping through burning hoops juggled by latex clad midget clowns......
........ I can spend $5,000 on an advert in midget porn monthly and get a better return.

How tall are you ?




I actually agree and have said in other threads EVENTS like Wanganui, Paeroa should give an indication of what the public want, for some it is just to get pissed in the sun and do dumb shit. A big problem with circuit racing is getting a view of the track. A knowledgeable commentator helps (the guy that does the Vic Club winter series is pretty good.)

[slowpoke]

yeah we can bro, but not in anyway related to the current format. Yes realignment of dates and meetings, but the modern world is about entertainment and the fight for that dollar.
I have said elsewhere about my "BIG SHOW" idea until a "BIG SHOW" happens the NZ bike racing scene will basically trumble along with the same catchment of spectators forever.
I still say 4 rounds max for a Nationals event finishing with one "BIG SHOW" held at Hampton Downs with a long weekend of racing, complimented by support races (motards, 4wd race bikes whatever you can pack in) entertainment at night etc etc.

Proof of my argument exists in Paeroa, Wanganui, the Hamilton V8's these events are successful in attracting the public, hence the flow on effect of the dollar, once the dollar is involved it rolls right through the entire NZ racing scene.

Trolling NZ Nationals events throughout the length and breadth of NZ over 3-4 months is a laboured and frankly boring process which does no one any favours.

lol thats my view and Im sticking to it.

Hmmmmm, I kinda agree and disagree with you Quasi.

I like the idea of a series where it's not decided by one DNF, and where a variety of tracks are used so in that regard I like that every track in NZ is visited at the moment, it's not there are that many anyway. As it stands with the current arrangements the series has time to evolve and change complexion as riders face the different challenges of each track......

....but agree that NZ isn't really suited to this, either geographically or financially. It's not the UK where most competitors/spectators can reasonably drive between most tracks in a day. That mongrel bit of water makes it expensive and time consuming to travel 20 odd km's. And even if you do make the effort the facilities aren't exactly stellar when you get there, so competotors are forced to lug compressors, generators, tyre changing equipment, fuel etc wherever they go, while spectators have to stand or sit on soggy wooden seating out in the weather, clutching the standard hotdog and chips.

To take your "Big Show" idea even further, and generate instant excitement, for both competitors and spectators alike, how's about condensing the series down to just two rounds: one in each island? Make the rounds close to the major population centres (Auckland and Christchurch) so Hampton Downs and Ruapuna (possibly Levels), 3 races at each round.

Would ultra short mean ultra sweet? It would certainly be a lot more realistic proposition for a lot more competitors.

[slowpoke]

...BUT racing is currently set up to please the racers and not the uniformed spectator who really couldn't give a root what colour the front forks are....

That's just it, going by the numbers at the Nationals the racers aren't pleased either........

.......and getting back to the original topic , hence the discontent with MNZ and by inference, Paul Pav and co.

[Robert Taylor]

yeah we can bro, but not in anyway related to the current format. Yes realignment of dates and meetings, but the modern world is about entertainment and the fight for that dollar.
I have said elsewhere about my "BIG SHOW" idea until a "BIG SHOW" happens the NZ bike racing scene will basically trumble along with the same catchment of spectators forever.
I still say 4 rounds max for a Nationals event finishing with one "BIG SHOW" held at Hampton Downs with a long weekend of racing, complimented by support races (motards, 4wd race bikes whatever you can pack in) entertainment at night etc etc.

Proof of my argument exists in Paeroa, Wanganui, the Hamilton V8's these events are successful in attracting the public, hence the flow on effect of the dollar, once the dollar is involved it rolls right through the entire NZ racing scene.

Trolling NZ Nationals events throughout the length and breadth of NZ over 3-4 months is a laboured and frankly boring process which does no one any favours.

lol thats my view and Im sticking to it.

I agree with that and the inaugural Tri series has to a point demonstrated the virtues of such a direction. The key point is its not so much about machine specs, its venues, dates and promotion.

[Robert Taylor]

Yup you got it Quasi. Throw in some entertainment for children and the wives and get the whole family along.

And lots of trade stalls.

[Shaun]

Bring back the NZ F1 and F2 rules, and grids will be over full

[Paul in NZ]

Hold up hold up, now lets explore this idea further (with pics preferably)

Nah mate - naked sweaty male cheerleaders from the Bloodknot Tripe n Black Pudding Eating Assoc .

But you get my point - even the wellington Pheonix soccer dudes had two chicks in body paint on segways (and a few scraps of cloth) hooning around cuba mall pumping up the punters... Any it was COLD....

[Drew]

How the fuck can you say people dont want to see bike racing? Been to Pearoa or Wanganui lately? 10,000 spectators, with NO view of the track, and $25 to get in.


Promote, promote, promote!!!