To Robert Taylor and other MNZ bashers

[Robert Taylor]

Drew, please try to post without direct personal attacks, it isn't constructive and all it does is persuade me to reply in kind.

Perhaps some level of suspension setup reduces tyre wear dramatically but I wonder how much of that could also be achieved by setting up the stock suspension correctly?

It is very much a strange point that spending great wads of money on suspension saves money because my posts are not directed at the guys spending just a few bucks, more at those spending many thousands.

Has anyone here got some actual FACTS on the amount of dosh spent on the top bikes suspension? Opinion seems a waste of time.
Of course this thread isn't just about suspension, we could extend that and ask how much money is being spent on a standard Suzuki or Yamaha in order to lead the class? If it totals the amount you could buy an R spec bike for; why are they excluded?

If it is so much that it makes winning almost unachievable by those with bugger all money to spend and reduces class sizes and spectatator numbers; is it actually promoting the sport?

Its the EXACT point, on especially the bikes with horsepower ( 600 AND 1000cc, even in stock form ) they will screw tyres very quickly on a racetrack. No matter if they have the ''correct'' setup externally. In many forms of media including KB I have laboriously explained this in great detail again and again and again.
But dont listen to me, Im only at the coalface every day dealing with same.

[scrivy]

In total defence of Shaun. He has had a lot of help from many people inside and outside of the industry over the years. And paid that back with great results. Now he is putting ALL of his own money back into the sport helping up and coming riders. If he can derive some income as well from it the all the very best to him, I am aware that officially its not a crime.

Really guys (Robert and Shaun), you two need to get a room!!!!!

Scrivy - taking the piss......

[scrivy]

P.s......

Good to see you two getting on again.......

[Shaun S]

Aaah back to this one again are we?

Thank fuck for Scrivy - because seriously guys this is getting stale. Nothing has changed since this started, or has someone actually done something that I am not aware of?

[idleidolidyll]

Its the EXACT point, on especially the bikes with horsepower ( 600 AND 1000cc, even in stock form ) they will screw tyres very quickly on a racetrack. No matter if they have the ''correct'' setup externally. In many forms of media including KB I have laboriously explained this in great detail again and again and again.
But dont listen to me, Im only at the coalface every day dealing with same.

More red herrings? Yawn

No, THE issue is the content of the first post not the small time trade off of suspension against tyre life.

The REAL issue is the lack of crowds, the small numbers on the start line.

The REAL issue is that a focus on money seems to have driven the sport into the ground.

[Tony.OK]

More red herrings? Yawn

No, THE issue is the content of the first post not the small time trade off of suspension against tyre life.

The REAL issue is the lack of crowds, the small numbers on the start line.

That'd be largely due to a definate lack of advertising I believe........and that in turn requires money........who organises that?

The REAL issue is that a focus on money seems to have driven the sport into the ground.

Having a true prod class wont change that much at all, people simply can't afford to do the entire Nats, regardless of bike costs.


Am in agreement re the "R" spec'd bikes, money spent upgrading a base model would be more anyway, and even an "R" model will need money spent to race prep it.

[slowpoke]

Idleidolidyll, I reckon you've got to take a hard look at what exactly is the problem.

The grids have looked pretty bloody healthy at both rounds of the Winter Series so far, were absolutely bulging at Scrivy's RRS, and the street series, so participation at grass roots level is not an issue.

Looking down the track (excuse the pun) I think VMCC have also made some solid improvements that will have a positive impact at both ends of the racing spectrum. The 250 class should be a hoot for the cash strapped and/or newcomers alike, while the more equitable track time arrangements for superbikes are also making the big bikes a viable option again. I for one have gone from wondering why the hell I bother with a Superbike to being happy as a pig in poo at both rounds I've done so far.

Personally I don't understand the attitude you mention of people not being able to win so they quit. To me that signifies a mindset of loving winning rather than loving the sport. I'd rather spend a petrol soaked weekend surrounded by folks of the latter persuasion.

MNZ have made some positive changes too, I think, with the new class arrangements. They aren't doing nothing but the time taken to react to the situation in Road Racing, and the changes they have/haven't made, are open to debate.

[prettybillie]

This seems to be a similar discussion to what is happening at a club level.

The similarities seem to be that everyone is happy to bitch, but no-one is happy to man up, take on the job and actually make the changes you want to see.

These guys work really hard and if you don't like what is happening, go get yourselves on the committee so you can have a say that will actually be heard by people that can make the changes.

If you don't want to, don't have time, don't care enough - stop bitching!

[Robert Taylor]

More red herrings? Yawn

No, THE issue is the content of the first post not the small time trade off of suspension against tyre life.

The REAL issue is the lack of crowds, the small numbers on the start line.

The REAL issue is that a focus on money seems to have driven the sport into the ground.

Small time? What flipping planet are you on or what are you smoking? Suspension and tyre setup is almost everything on a Superbike ( and 600s ) As all those who ACTUALLY RACE modern 600s AND 1000s will testify.

The issues with cost have a hell of lot to more to do with downtime, travel and accomodation. And maybe many people would rather be on holiday through January? Numbers at VMCC round 2 were very healthy and a lot of those bikes were very well spec'd.

Others have put forward very solid reasons for low Nationals numbers, again and again and again.

I agree that R spec bikes should be allowed. And if people want to spend huge money let them, it invariably employs people and services.

[cowpoos]

Yawn

You don't seem to be as EDUCATED as you think you are...

What you may know from the past....may not be entirely relevant now.
and your arguements are petty at times as well as antagonising.

[GSVR]

I bet theres alot of guys out there that wish their suspension was set up as well as Andrew Strouds or Robby Bugdens. Those guys must save plenty not having to fit new tyres after every race! Or do they?

How many races did Hayden and Sherriffs get out of their Pirellis on the weekend just gone ?

It was Jonesy getting the best tyre wear this year I heard.

[cowpoos]

I bet theres alot of guys out there that wish their suspension was set up as well as Andrew Strouds or Robby Bugdens. .

Considering the are running the same gear that a hell of alot of club racers...
Its actually more down to the riders to set the bike up, with there feed back...

re the tyres...ummm...they will change them regardless if okay or not...any little advantage!! Andrew tests on old race tyres...and is about 300ths of a second slower a lap at pukie on them...shows how good the suspension is aye

[Robert Taylor]

I bet theres alot of guys out there that wish their suspension was set up as well as Andrew Strouds or Robby Bugdens. Those guys must save plenty not having to fit new tyres after every race! Or do they?

How many races did Hayden and Sherriffs get out of their Pirellis on the weekend just gone ?

It was Jonesy getting the best tyre wear this year I heard.

Dont believe everything you hear. Stroud had great tyre wear all season, and if you were at Pukekohe that Yamaha was visibly handling badly after the hairpin.

Hayden only had one x SC1 rear available until Craig lent him a 2. Craigs tyres especially looked good, considering how old the batches were.

The cold shear problems with that long track in winter are well documented. Had everyone been using stock suspension the problem would have been HUGE.

[Kickaha]

again; if the sport was bigger in the 70's and 80's BEFORE the money came, should we perhaps look backward to fix todays problems?

It was also before PC games, playstations, cheap cars, bikes and finance

However, last time I looked, Robert Taylor wasn't on the NBR rich list, rather he's a guy with a passion for motorcycle racing and provides by all accounts a bloody good service to racers at the Ohlins brand. We need to support people like Robert and get rid of people that hold back progress.

He provides an outstanding service and not just to those that race

Try racing an old piece of shit sidecar worth $20,000 against a $120,000 LCR.
You guys go on about $50,000 bikes - try to beat a $120,000 machine!!!
I'm banging my head against a wall.....

Like I haven't heard that a hundred times before

I prefer my short one...........

I heard sidecarbob likes your short one to.... orally

And you ride it well indeed. A question though, do you think you'd be faster on an LCR? I know quite little about rigs, but I'm told the long chair doesn't respond as well to aggression. And having seen you pilot you're beast, the ONLY thing it responds to is aggression.

Much as I hate to say it, I think if you put Scurvy and sidecarboob on an LCR and they came to grips with it, no one in the country would get close to them

Luckily enough for the rest of us they're a a pair of LCR hating pink frilly girls blouses so that day will never come

one way to encourage more riders to the nationals, is to reduce the 3 days to 2 days, and drop the trip to Invercargill for a year or 2, untill finance becomes healthier.

Reducing to 2 days wont work, people will just travel to club rounds to get track experience or will front up earlier in the week and hire the track and it will end up costing more than running three days anyway, the Friday is only unofficial so they don't have to do it

Alterante between Teretonga and Levels so there is only two SI rounds

[Paul in NZ]

I had short lived hopes that Slowpoke had won the 35 million and was going to donate some of it to motorcycle racing but then found out it was a goup of ladies.

Sorry mate, I'm confused, someone was going to donate some $$ to racing and then found out it was a bunch of ladies or a bunch of ladies won the money?

Either way Max is the boy these guys need... People would PAY to go to one of Max's parties...