Safety Barrier (WRSB) Presentation - 5th of May

[Real_Wolf]

Did you touch on the fact that cheesecutter is so much cheaper than the better options, and as such thats why its done in alot of places

[Mom]

R6 has explained a bit more and I agree that the barriers need tweeking.

My comment has an element of truth I guess..if drivers were safe they would not have so many accidents and would not need barriers..I know that is a simplictic view, however, at the same time, I feel that we are sometimes the author's of our own misfortune...

Would be interesting to test having no barriers and do the stats..may be interesting eh..I mean where the Cheese Cutters are situated, there were no concrete barriers were there, just the iron ones...what were the stats before the Cheese Cutters were installed.

Oh and thanks for being nice to me Mom..

You are welcome

As far as what barriers were there before the cheesecutter the answer often is none! These dangerous and un-safe barriers are popping up all over the place. They are not replacing other barrier types as much as being used instead of other, safer alternatives.

Look, I am the last person to condone un-safe and dangerous riding as you will be aware, but these barriers add an element of risk to MY own riding that I dont want to accept.

All I can say here is, if I am riding on an open road, happily minding my own business, taking into consideration all the things that we needs to as bikers, the last thing I need is to face oncoming traffic and see a vehicle cross the centre line. Normally I would be scrubbing off speed and looking for plan b to avoid a collision with oncoming dickhead in my space. If plan b is taken away from me with the installation of a WRunSB to my left I am left with 2 chances. None and fuck all!

These non-safety barriers are installed in the most stupid places ( I have named one, for the pendants that will say they are also installed other, safer places).

Back to my original post here, Transit are charged with keeping the roads safe for ALL road users.

[R6_kid:Me]

Did you touch on the fact that cheesecutter is so much cheaper than the better options, and as such thats why its done in alot of places

Partially, but the truth of the matter is that they do their job better and safer (for car occupants) than armco or concrete, cost saving is a bonus at the end of the day. Further to this they are unobtrusive during installation, are easily repaired, and can (generally) be taken down temporarily if needed.

When you look at it from a small to medium vehicle point of view they are pretty bloody awesome.

HOWEVER - I noted that all of the tests were done by freewheeling vehicles with no forces actiong on them during impact other than from the barrier itself - as with bikes during braking, the front of the vehicle tends to dive - so for sports cars and other vehicles with a slanting frontal design (i.e most cars) and a low height from the ground w.r.t to the top of the bonnet, I would assume that many cars would actually get caught below the wires rather than simply reflected as is shown in the tests.

Again, providing a protective shield/sheathing would almost eliminate this sort of effect and would not only make the barriers safer for motorcyclists, but for car occupants aswell.

See this document - it states the guidelines for safety barrier installation - and after having a quick read through it you will see that nearly all roadside barriers will probably need modification in order to comply with the guidelines.

At a mininmum this would involve a system such as (or similar to) Mototub being installed on Armco/W-barrier, and a protective sheathing such as the Santedge Lifeguard system for the WRSB's (see pic attached)

[Grey Weasel]

Not that I am a lawyer or anything (done 1st year Law only) but surely given the above thread there is a good case to be made for negligent homicide or reckless endangerment or similar to be directed at the installers of such dangerous equipment in such an unsafe manner.

Nothing like a giant civil action against everyone involved all the way up to the relevent Minister to wake people up.

Show 'em a few clips of WWII movies where cheesecutter wire is commonly used to slay bike messengers - its common enough I have seen several versions Like a landmine for bikes, let the non-riders think of it like that.

[sunhuntin]

These non-safety barriers are installed in the most stupid places ( I have named one, for the pendants that will say they are also installed other, safer places).

Back to my original post here, Transit are charged with keeping the roads safe for ALL road users.

yep, like the one ive mentioned several times that was being erected on the left next to a lake down south. the lake was quite shallow near the road, and wouldnt have posed much danger to tourists too busy gawking rather than going around the corner. and also the 4 individual ones put on the invercargill/bluff road... a stretch of 20k, give or take. and its mostly straight! sheesh, talk about overkill.

[Grahameeboy]

The issue is not complicated...
The basic fact is that if you are on a motorcycle and for whatever reason hit a cheesecutter, you will suffer horrendous injuries, amputation of limbs or worse, and/or die. It's that simple.

So really the normall hazards of riding a motor bike?

I was actually referring to the barrier usage issue...but that has now been covered.

[Grahameeboy]

Partially, but the truth of the matter is that they do their job better and safer (for car occupants) than armco or concrete, cost saving is a bonus at the end of the day. Further to this they are unobtrusive during installation, are easily repaired, and can (generally) be taken down temporarily if needed.

When you look at it from a small to medium vehicle point of view they are pretty bloody awesome.

HOWEVER - I noted that all of the tests were done by freewheeling vehicles with no forces actiong on them during impact other than from the barrier itself - as with bikes during braking, the front of the vehicle tends to dive - so for sports cars and other vehicles with a slanting frontal design (i.e most cars) and a low height from the ground w.r.t to the top of the bonnet, I would assume that many cars would actually get caught below the wires rather than simply reflected as is shown in the tests.

Again, providing a protective shield/sheathing would almost eliminate this sort of effect and would not only make the barriers safer for motorcyclists, but for car occupants aswell.

See this document - it states the guidelines for safety barrier installation - and after having a quick read through it you will see that nearly all roadside barriers will probably need modification in order to comply with the guidelines.

At a mininmum this would involve a system such as (or similar to) Mototub being installed on Armco/W-barrier, and a protective sheathing such as the Santedge Lifeguard system for the WRSB's (see pic attached)

I guess the intentions are good then just a lack of funds which will always be an issue here in NZ although having said that they are spending large on roads a the mo...

[MSTRS:Me]

I guess the intentions are good then just a lack of funds which will always be an issue here in NZ although having said that they are spending large on roads a the mo...

Got nothing to do with that. About to spend $500,000 on rumble strips here in the Bay. Better than fkn cheesecutters, for us, tho.

[Grahameeboy]

Got nothing to do with that. About to spend $500,000 on rumble strips here in the Bay. Better than fkn cheesecutters, for us, tho.

Think my e-mail covers this.

Must admit when I hear that $400,000 is being spent to re-sand Torpedo Bay in Devonport when you have Cheltenham neaby and no parking they do have money to waste.

[motorbyclist]

let the non-riders think of it like that.

alas, i find most non-riders don't care until they see this:



though, the ford falcon is hardly a common vehicle in this country - heck it's even an unusual shape! this would affect such a small percentage of road users it surely isn't an issue!
Yeah right.

I would assume that many cars would actually get caught below the wires rather than simply reflected as is shown in the tests.

yep!

[sunhuntin]

Got nothing to do with that. About to spend $500,000 on rumble strips here in the Bay. Better than fkn cheesecutters, for us, tho.

weve already got rumble strips here... i know they cover from just south of wangas to most of the way to welly. i think they are great. dad hates them cos he cant keep off the left hand ones, lol. must admit, they are horrid when youve got a headache. but even thats better than a cheese cutter, specially cos they allow you to cross over them to the verge safely.

[Metalor]

Partially, but the truth of the matter is that they do their job better and safer (for car occupants) than armco or concrete, cost saving is a bonus at the end of the day. Further to this they are unobtrusive during installation, are easily repaired, and can (generally) be taken down temporarily if needed.

When you look at it from a small to medium vehicle point of view they are pretty bloody awesome.

HOWEVER - I noted that all of the tests were done by freewheeling vehicles with no forces actiong on them during impact other than from the barrier itself - as with bikes during braking, the front of the vehicle tends to dive - so for sports cars and other vehicles with a slanting frontal design (i.e most cars) and a low height from the ground w.r.t to the top of the bonnet, I would assume that many cars would actually get caught below the wires rather than simply reflected as is shown in the tests.

Again, providing a protective shield/sheathing would almost eliminate this sort of effect and would not only make the barriers safer for motorcyclists, but for car occupants aswell.

See this document - it states the guidelines for safety barrier installation - and after having a quick read through it you will see that nearly all roadside barriers will probably need modification in order to comply with the guidelines.

At a mininmum this would involve a system such as (or similar to) Mototub being installed on Armco/W-barrier, and a protective sheathing such as the Santedge Lifeguard system for the WRSB's (see pic attached)

Hah! I was reading through the thread and thought to myself a plastic cover to go over the top might help, possibly like the same plastic they make those temp barriers that lock together out of. They'd be cheap and fairly easy to install (I would imagine). Good to see someone has alrady thought of it :P

Sorry to hear someone came off on the wrong side of these things. I've been reading through the thread, cringing at your posts... I'm not good with yuck stuff.

[monkeymcbean]

You are welcome

As far as what barriers were there before the cheesecutter the answer often is none! These dangerous and un-safe barriers are popping up all over the place. They are not replacing other barrier types as much as being used instead of other, safer alternatives.

Look, I am the last person to condone un-safe and dangerous riding as you will be aware, but these barriers add an element of risk to MY own riding that I dont want to accept.

All I can say here is, if I am riding on an open road, happily minding my own business, taking into consideration all the things that we needs to as bikers, the last thing I need is to face oncoming traffic and see a vehicle cross the centre line. Normally I would be scrubbing off speed and looking for plan b to avoid a collision with oncoming dickhead in my space. If plan b is taken away from me with the installation of a WRunSB to my left I am left with 2 chances. None and fuck all!

These non-safety barriers are installed in the most stupid places ( I have named one, for the pendants that will say they are also installed other, safer places).

Back to my original post here, Transit are charged with keeping the roads safe for ALL road users.

I totally agree here, i think originally wire rope barriers was originally designed intended to only be used and installed 6 metres back from the road edge, or did i make that up?
Talk about overkill, man they are babying drivers, theres nothing like a good rumble tumble down a hill if ones not driving carefully, if your not killed then crikey youll pay more attention next time.
But yes, it takes the options away if your a motorcyclist and you need to make a quick exit to the side of the road or you go down sliding, im never very relaxed riding, when they line the edge of road.