Hypothetical situation

[Madness]

Speaking from my own experiences, I'd imagine that rider A would be quite happy to accept an infringement notice for passing on double yellows. They'd probably pay the fine and take the points like a man (or woman ), accepting that they did wrong. The problem here could perhaps be the mandatory 6 month disqualification period associated with a dangerous driving conviction and the money required to pay a lawyer to defend it, not to mention all the time off work for court appearances.

The overtaking offence by itself could have hypothetically been dealt with on the side of the road and there's no suggestion of excessive speed from the witness. The dangerous aspect here surely comes from the wheelstands performed as there is also no mention in the witnesses account of oncoming traffic or any collisions. Therefore, say if rider A hypothetically didn't perform any wheelstands that entire day, he's probably got good reason to be pissed off, hypothetically.

All of this is good and well. What do you think rider A might have thought later, when rider C might have been seen to be making remarks like "Deal with it like a man" and "It was not my fault that you got what was coming to you". I'd suspect that rider A might be starting to get really goddam hypothetically fucked off by now.

[Max Preload]

So. The issue is a group of bikes have passed vehicles on a double no-passing line (I think). That's an offence.

Just a minor point but no, it's not an offence. Crossing a yellow line on your side is however, regardless of whether you're passing or not. Provided you stay enitrely to the left of the yellow line on your side of the road you're fine. Although in this particular scenario they didn't do that.

Of course, if spotted by the po-po they may try on the catch-all careless/dangerous/reckless charge.

[DEATH_INC.]

The charges are not for crossing the yellow lines, they are for doing the wheelstands (Hypothetically)
You know what really gets ya going is rider 'a' and 'f' thought they'd do the right thing by NOT dropping 'b' and 'c' in it. Guess it pays not to help out your fellow bikers....

[FROSTY:Me]

As I understand matters if rider C had the balls to contact riders A or E. I guess there wouldn't be so many other people hypothetically annoyed.
Could I ask others here
If the situation was EXACTLY as outlined by mr Death Inc would you wish to ride with rider C ?
Ohh and Hypothetical rider C== No thank you for the green bling. I'd suggest if you wish your side of the story told then man up and tell it. Don't "hint' Theres another side to the story.

[Mikkel]

Sounds like the police should be better at running courses teaching their staff to leave work at the workplace and relax once they are off-duty. Stressed out law-enforcers aren't going to do society a favour either way.

[Max Preload]

The charges are not for crossing the yellow lines, they are for doing the wheelstands (Hypothetically)
You know what really gets ya going is rider 'a' and 'f' thought they'd do the right thing by NOT dropping 'b' and 'c' in it. Guess it pays not to help out your fellow bikers....

But do riders 'b' and 'c' know that riders 'a' and 'f' weren't doing wheelstands? (I can't be fucked reading the whole thread, especially since it's only hypothetical). Maybe they just figured that they were lucky and didn't get seen... all hypothetically, of course...

[boomer]

i think Ducati hard and yamaha64life should fkin man up and tell teh rozzas the truth.

If it were me, i'd have no qualms grassing the 2 of 'em up after there hard ass comments/attitudes.

[DEATH_INC.]

But do riders 'b' and 'c' know that riders 'a' and 'f' weren't doing wheelstands? (I can't be fucked reading the whole thread, especially since it's only hypothetical). Maybe they just figured that they were lucky and didn't get seen... all hypothetically, of course...

Yes, and no, rider 'A' doesn't do 'em, rider 'f' chooses time and place a little more carefully....hypothetically.

[Winston001]

Speaking from my own experiences, I'd imagine that rider A would be quite happy to accept an infringement notice for passing on double yellows. They'd probably pay the fine and take the points like a man (or woman ), accepting that they did wrong. The problem here could perhaps be the mandatory 6 month disqualification period associated with a dangerous driving conviction and the money required to pay a lawyer to defend it, not to mention all the time off work for court appearances.

Well said. Driving dangerously is a whole magnitude beyond a traffic infringement. Imprisonable up to 3 months, up to $4,500 fine, minimum disqualification of 6 months.

[Winston001]

Just a minor point but no, it's not an offence. Crossing a yellow line on your side is however, regardless of whether you're passing or not. Provided you stay enitrely to the left of the yellow line on your side of the road you're fine. Although in this particular scenario they didn't do that.

Of course, if spotted by the po-po they may try on the catch-all careless/dangerous/reckless charge.

Good point.

[MarkH]

This is what the main witnesses account of things would look like in this hypothetical situation if taken from the police disclosure....

I was travelling south on s/h* and climbing the p******* hill. I was off duty but in an unmarked police patrol car. traffic was very heavy and travelling slowly probably about 10-20 kph on average.
As I passed through the end of the first southbound passing laneand just about to cross the viaduct i looked in the external rearview mirror I saw a motorcycle (rider 'A') coming from behind me up the wrong side of the road and on the wrong side of the no passing line. I was unsure of the registration.
I looked in the mirror again and saw a group of motorcycles approaching. The first of these (rider 'B') was performing a 'wheelstand' as the rider came up the hill on the wrong side of the no passing line. The wheelstand was sustained over a considerable distance, perhaps up to 100 meters.
As the motorcycle went past me still on the wrong side of the road I was able to get the registration number *****
I looked again and saw another motorcycle (rider 'C') approaching very quickly. this motorcycle performed a number of short distance wheelstands as it overtook traffic up the wrong side of the no passing lines. As the motorcycle went past me I saw the registration began with a * but could not make out the rest of the plate.
Another 3 motorcycles (riders 'd' 'e' and 'f') followed but I was unable to get thier registration no's.

Now, what may have happened is rider 'A' and rider 'F' were pulled up and issued with dangerous driving notices, for performing these wheelstands, and may now be going to court to defend the charges.
Rider 'B' is being very quiet (pretty sure they know about it...) and rider 'C' is denying everything.
Waddayathink?

If this is the police evidence I am not too sure why A & F are being charged - if indeed the witness got the plate of B and partial of C then where is there any evidence against A or F? I could understand A being charged with crossing the no passing line, but what evidence is there for more than that? This smells like incompetent policing to me! It also seems pretty lucky for B that he wasn't the one charged - if the police witness has his rego number than it would be hard for him to deny the charges. I kinda wonder why B didn't get charged though - it seems that with the rego number identified he was done for.

The big problem with B or C coming forward is that they would have to admit that they were guilty. If A & F go to court they can say they are innocent, it looks like the police witness report would back them up. i.e. A & F go to court and get found not guilty or B & C 'fess up and are in a world of shit. It just strikes me as a bad idea to willingly give the police an easy conviction when they have not charged you with anything, but a good idea to deny the charge when innocent.

TBH I am not too sure that there is anything dangerous about the riding described - why do the police thing that wheelstand = dangerous? I have seen bikes pulling wheelstands and they didn't crash or anything. What exactly was so dangerous?

If I were B or C I would be relieved at not being charged. If I were A or F I would be pissed off at the cops for accusing me of something I didn't do.

You know what really gets ya going is rider 'a' and 'f' thought they'd do the right thing by NOT dropping 'b' and 'c' in it. Guess it pays not to help out your fellow bikers....

If I were in the position of A or F I would find it very difficult to drop B or C in it. I am not a cop and it isn't my job to provide evidence against other bikers that are riding with me. I haven't heard the comments from B or C so I can't really say how much the comments would piss me off. I would be more likely to just turn up in court and say "It wasn't me, I didn't do it" than to actually name those that were guilty.

[DEATH_INC.]

if indeed the witness got the plate of B and partial of C then where is there any evidence against A or F?

I'm guessing you're a young fella, yet to learn the ways of the world.....the plate no they got was indeed for bike 'a', I'm guessing in the confusion of so many bikes he's mistaken 'a' for 'b'. Or just added it in later (not that the cops would EVER do that )
'f' got pulled because the plate was not easily readable, so the officer wrongly assumed that was it.

[FROSTY:Me]

mark H As I alluded to in a previous post its all about time and place.
Theres a big difference between a wheelstand down the back straight of Taupo track and say a busy road whilstovertaking traffic.

[White trash]

i think Ducati hard and yamaha64life should fkin man up and tell teh rozzas the truth.

If it were me, i'd have no qualms grassing the 2 of 'em up after there hard ass comments/attitudes.

+1 on that.

The fact that they're not publicly putting "the other side of the story" forward is fair indication there isn't one.

Tell ya what, I'd feel a little worried knowing that two innocent parties are facing some pretty serious charges on account of my gutlessnes, and that if they were convictd, they'd probably be after my arse.

[MarkH]

the plate no they got was indeed for bike 'a', I'm guessing in the confusion of so many bikes he's mistaken 'a' for 'b'. Or just added it in later (not that the cops would EVER do that )
'f' got pulled because the plate was not easily readable, so the officer wrongly assumed that was it.

Hmmm, that changes quite a lot. I think that F might have a case since the number plate was not accurately read by the police witness, but A is in trouble. If B came forward would the cops believe him and drop the charges against A? If B appeared in court and said it was him rather than A that the police saw pulling a wheelie then would they believe him and find A innocent? I think B should at least be willing to stand up in court for A and say what happened. Whether they believe B or not - he is the best witness as he was riding behind A and he can truthfully give his account of the incident and hopefully the judge will believe him. C, D & E should also be willing to stand up in court and support A - possibly multiple witnesses may sway the judges decision. B, C, D & E should also be willing to support F in court - though they were in front of F and may not be as accurate in what they saw as for A (since A was in front of them).

Has anyone put the idea of being a witness in court to B or C?

It is a pity you guys didn't decide to take SH16 with me & Toto and a few others. I guess you were in a hurry to get back home - but hurrying on SH1 has certain risks