Toothache and dental treatment

[Number One]

Umm actually EJK this is all VERY BAD AND VERY WRONG!

I would check that he is infact a registered dentist and if he is I would put a formal complaint through to them.

When I was working in dentistry we had people pass out due to the pain of having damaged and 'on their way out' nerves removed. This was not good and I would not have paid and his bedside manner leaves a lot to be desired!

I would not let this go dude you were shafted good and proper and he deserves a slap on the hand and no payment for his shitty effort.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!

[steve_t]

OK, here's how you need to proceed.
Write a letter to the dentist and keep a copy for yourself. Explain that you did not want him to start the root canal treatment but were there only for a consultation. State that you did not give "Informed Consent" to him to start treatment. Note that had you been given the chance to say so, you would have asked him to extract the tooth. Ask if he would consider extracting the tooth and refunding you the $370 balance (if he charges $130 for an extraction). He is VERY likely to be agreeable to this.
If he says no, you need to ask the dentist if he is a member of the NZDA (New Zealand Dental Association) and make a complaint to either your local branch or Dr David Crum, NZDA President. If he's not a member, the NZDA may contact the dentist or pass the complaint to the HDC (Health and Disability Commissioner).
From your account, the fact of the matter is that you did not consent to the treatment you received and have a legitimate grievance.
There's no decay under the root. There's an abscess, which can be a sack of pus under a lot of pressure. Cleaning out the inside of the root is the correct way to treat this.
Keep copies of all correspondence.
Good luck... but you don't need it cos you're clearly in the right

[Max Preload]

Too late I guess. Treatment is a treatment. If I didn't pay, he'd probably see me as a theif...

Who gives a shit what he might see you as - clearly he's not too bothered at being seen as a crook...

You're covered by the CGA - you didn't get what you asked for - just a consultation - you're not obliged to pay more than a reasonable amount for the services you specified.

[EJK]

OK thanks for all the suggestion guys. I'll discuss this with my mother and talk to the dentis about it on Friday. I'm persuming the dentist will have plenty of experience defending his so-called-rights (some Koreans I tell ya!). I'll get an apology very least plus negotiate my futhur treatment. If that fails and he continues to act like a crook, I'll do the legal way.

Hey steve_t, how long will this pain from abscess last?

[MSTRS:Me]

OK thanks for all the suggestion guys. I'll discuss this with my mother and talk to the dentis about it on Friday. I'm persuming the dentist will have plenty of experience defending his so-called-rights (some Koreans I tell ya!). I'll get an apology very least plus negotiate my futhur treatment. If that fails and he continues to act like a crook, I'll do the legal way.

Hey steve_t, how long will this pain from abscess last?

The abscess will not stop hurting, or go away, without at least anti-biotic treatment. And even then, probably not. Generally speaking, I believe an abscess under a tooth requires that tooth to be removed to allow the abscess to be drained.
Is this prick dentist Korean? And if so, I suspect that he is not practising legally.

[DunerzNick]

Some sound advice above,
If how you explained it is how it went down, then he is blatently in breach of the Halth and Dissabilty Commisioner's Code of Rights that are there to protect patients.
Your right to "informed consent" is a biggie -you should have been presented with your options for you to choose how to proceed.

"Fully informed" is another of your rights -this clearly didn't happen.

"Services of an appropriate standard" is another one of your rights when you're in the chair -I would think this considers appropriate pain relief. Pulpectomy without anaesthesia is ridiculous.

The "right to complain" is the final one on the list -something I would seriously consider.

There are free advocacy services available free of charge that are there to support patients through the complaints process.

On the M.O.H website, they suggest to start here with making a complaint (hdc@hdc.org.nz), that is present your story to the H&D commisionor. A full copy of your rights can be found by downloading the pdf at their website: http://www.hdc.org.nz/

Its dentistry like this that gives us a bad reputation. I know when I am operating or presenting treatment plans, communication with my patient is one of my top priorities. I ALWAYS seek permissison before I begin anything and I make sure they are aware of the treatment costs. And hell I give anaesthesia for scaling sometimes if I have a jumpy patient!

Good luck with it all.

[DunerzNick]

And here are detials of the free advocacy/support service:

0800 555 050 or by emailing advocacy@hdc.org.nz

[steve_t]

OK thanks for all the suggestion guys. I'll discuss this with my mother and talk to the dentis about it on Friday. I'm persuming the dentist will have plenty of experience defending his so-called-rights (some Koreans I tell ya!). I'll get an apology very least plus negotiate my futhur treatment. If that fails and he continues to act like a crook, I'll do the legal way.

Hey steve_t, how long will this pain from abscess last?

If the first stage of the Root Canal Treatment has been done correctly, the abscess pain should resolve in 2-3 days. Given your history, you should definitely have been prescribed some antibiotics and pain killers by your dentist (unless you're already taking heaps of Over-The-Counter pain killers eg Nurofen Plus and Panadol, where he'd only give you antibiotics).
The process is to first discuss your treatment with your dentist. The HDC and NZDA will tell you to do this first if you complain to them without having done so. The tooth does NOT need to be extracted to let the abscess drain. It will resolve with Root Canal Treatment, provided it's done correctly.

[Hitcher]

Attached is some sage advice about self-medication.

http://publicaddress.net/default,5882.sm#post5882

[EJK]

Some sound advice above,
If how you explained it is how it went down, then he is blatently in breach of the Halth and Dissabilty Commisioner's Code of Rights that are there to protect patients.
Your right to "informed consent" is a biggie -you should have been presented with your options for you to choose how to proceed.

"Fully informed" is another of your rights -this clearly didn't happen.

"Services of an appropriate standard" is another one of your rights when you're in the chair -I would think this considers appropriate pain relief. Pulpectomy without anaesthesia is ridiculous.

The "right to complain" is the final one on the list -something I would seriously consider.

There are free advocacy services available free of charge that are there to support patients through the complaints process.

On the M.O.H website, they suggest to start here with making a complaint (hdc@hdc.org.nz), that is present your story to the H&D commisionor. A full copy of your rights can be found by downloading the pdf at their website: http://www.hdc.org.nz/

Its dentistry like this that gives us a bad reputation. I know when I am operating or presenting treatment plans, communication with my patient is one of my top priorities. I ALWAYS seek permissison before I begin anything and I make sure they are aware of the treatment costs. And hell I give anaesthesia for scaling sometimes if I have a jumpy patient!

Good luck with it all.

Thank you, Thank you! That'll really help me!

If the first stage of the Root Canal Treatment has been done correctly, the abscess pain should resolve in 2-3 days. Given your history, you should definitely have been prescribed some antibiotics and pain killers by your dentist (unless you're already taking heaps of Over-The-Counter pain killers eg Nurofen Plus and Panadol, where he'd only give you antibiotics).
The process is to first discuss your treatment with your dentist. The HDC and NZDA will tell you to do this first if you complain to them without having done so. The tooth does NOT need to be extracted to let the abscess drain. It will resolve with Root Canal Treatment, provided it's done correctly.

Sure thing. I will discuss with this with my doctor (or so-called-doctor) first. And yes, the pain is subsiding.
Oh, I didn't recieve any antibiotics (not even panadol). Still do I need it? Should I ask for some tomorrow?

.
Is this prick dentist Korean? And if so, I suspect that he is not practising legally.

His ad is not on Yellow Pages. I couldn't get his address by typing his clinique on Google search engine. So I got his address by following Google Maps and still the address isn't well known (no word "dentist" appears). Isn't there a website where I can check if he is a New Zealand registered doctor? I think TV3 programme Target mentioned it couple weeks ago.


Another fact is, he is a friend of my father's and so both my parents are not trying to really understand me.
I'm not sure. My parents said to me last night I should just ignore it. My father also said like humans make mistakes so I should accept it and just get over with it.
But honestly I do feel unfailry treated and even if he is a friend of my fathers, I, as a customer, don't sense any sign of justice if I keep it to myself. I'll see how I go tomorrow at 11am appointment. Tomorrow I want a formal sincere apology on a letter, him admitting what he did wrong and what he is sorry for. Simple. Well ofcourse first I will nicely explain everything that I was uncomfortable with. If he fails/ denies his wrong and continues to act like a fucker, then I will send a complaint mail to the above suggested website.

[MSTRS:Me]

His ad is not on Yellow Pages. I couldn't get his address by typing his clinique on Google search engine. So I got his address by following Google Maps and still the address isn't well known (no word "dentist" appears). Isn't there a website where I can check if he is a New Zealand registered doctor? I think TV3 programme Target mentioned it couple weeks ago.

That would be a dead giveaway that this guy is not kosher

Another fact is, he is a friend of my father's and so both my parents are not trying to really understand me.

So? What difference does that make? Did you/your folks not come to NZ for a 'better life'? Leave the traditional hierarchial system in Korea and embrace how it's done here.

[EJK]

Thats what I said! I'm hoping to get a formal apology letter tomorrow & negotiation of my further treatment, but if that fails then I'll show him how they do in New Zealand.

[gijoe1313]

Good on you EJ for sticking to what you know is right for you. I still remember the episode you discussed about older korean guys taking advantage of you (the motorcycle incident), glad to hear you are now confident enough to know that older isn't best or wiser necessarily.

Go sic'em tiger!

[EJK]

Good on you EJ for sticking to what you know is right for you. I still remember the episode you discussed about older korean guys taking advantage of you (the motorcycle incident), glad to hear you are now confident enough to know that older isn't best or wiser necessarily.

Go sic'em tiger!

YES! That fucker too! All this "I'm older so you obey" Korean bullshit!
Well here now, the bullshit stops!

[steve_t]

Sure thing. I will discuss with this with my doctor (or so-called-doctor) first. And yes, the pain is subsiding.
Oh, I didn't recieve any antibiotics (not even panadol). Still do I need it? Should I ask for some tomorrow?

If your pain is subsiding, you probably don't need any antibiotics now.

His ad is not on Yellow Pages. I couldn't get his address by typing his clinique on Google search engine. So I got his address by following Google Maps and still the address isn't well known (no word "dentist" appears). Isn't there a website where I can check if he is a New Zealand registered doctor? I think TV3 programme Target mentioned it couple weeks ago.

He should be registered with the Dental Council www.dentalcouncil.org.nz

Another fact is, he is a friend of my father's and so both my parents are not trying to really understand me.
I'm not sure. My parents said to me last night I should just ignore it. My father also said like humans make mistakes so I should accept it and just get over with it.
But honestly I do feel unfailry treated and even if he is a friend of my fathers, I, as a customer, don't sense any sign of justice if I keep it to myself. I'll see how I go tomorrow at 11am appointment. Tomorrow I want a formal sincere apology on a letter, him admitting what he did wrong and what he is sorry for. Simple. Well ofcourse first I will nicely explain everything that I was uncomfortable with. If he fails/ denies his wrong and continues to act like a fucker, then I will send a complaint mail to the above suggested website.

I wonder if your folks have told the dentist to do the root canal treatment so you can keep your tooth and they'll pay for it?? Obviously, being over 15 years old, you have the right to choose for yourself, but ask your parents cos they might be 'trying to help' in an indirect way that actually breaches your rights. Obviously everyone else involved would prefer you kept your teeth for the rest of your life, but the choice ultimately has to be yours.