Mnz agm

[Biggles08]

Biggles, I agree with Wharfys comment!!!!!.
For your info the following is from the MotoGP Regulations, straight off the FIM website. Is this the addition you require?????

1.25.2. At the time the red flag is displayed, riders who are not actively
competing in the race will not be classified.
Within 5 minutes after the red flag has been displayed, riders who
have not entered the pit lane, riding on their motorcycle, will not be
classified.

Yes thank you Burrt Badger...that to me seems a fairer result as those who have managed to actually continue competing are rewarded for doing so...those that are on the track crashed are DNF....much cleaner and fairer surely!

As for your "Playing dead", you fall into the chasm of Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion. It is a very sharp knife edge you walk on making a comment like that in a public forum, where I am pretty sure a number of Officials and your fellow competitors will note your attitude.

????? what is with this comment!? I have never done it nor am suggesting anyone should...and your tone seems to be misguided in thinking I will do this myself! I am merely suggesting the rule as it stands actually encourages this behaviour and I am suggesting a fix to it...and yes in this public forum!

[Bykmad]

????? what is with this comment!? I have never done it nor am suggesting anyone should...and your tone seems to be misguided in thinking I will do this myself! I am merely suggesting the rule as it stands actually encourages this behaviour and I am suggesting a fix to it...and yes in this public forum!

the moral of the story from my point of view is if I crash, I'll stay laying in the middle of the track and get the race red flagged...then get up and jump into the next race!?!? Really fair huh!?

The above is the basis!!!!!!

No rider crashes intentionally, but the ones I feel for are the poor buggers who are taken out by someones elses actions.
If competitors want a rule changed, all they have to do is contact the Road Race Commissioner, the Stewards Commissioner or e-mail to the MNZ Office and put their case. Best to e-mail the commissioners direct I would think.
As BJT666, communication ie all that is required.

[Biggles08]

????? what is with this comment!? I have never done it nor am suggesting anyone should...and your tone seems to be misguided in thinking I will do this myself! I am merely suggesting the rule as it stands actually encourages this behaviour and I am suggesting a fix to it...and yes in this public forum!

the moral of the story from my point of view is if I crash, I'll stay laying in the middle of the track and get the race red flagged...then get up and jump into the next race!?!? Really fair huh!?

The above is the basis!!!!!!

No rider crashes intentionally, but the ones I feel for are the poor buggers who are taken out by someones elses actions.
If competitors want a rule changed, all they have to do is contact the Road Race Commissioner, the Stewards Commissioner or e-mail to the MNZ Office and put their case. Best to e-mail the commissioners direct I would think.
As BJT666, communication ie all that is required.

You obviously don't understand the sarcasim in the tone of my post! read it again sloooowwwwly and try and get it! I was being facetious....check out this page my friend! Apart from that, you are missing my point completely...Read the title of the thread and then the first post responding to it...that was the intention and I think BJT666 will be able to see that...I've commented enough on this now and I don't want to hijack his thread anymore.

[Bykmad]

Biggles. Dont rate yourself too highly. Burt Badger gave you the new International rule. You didnt know it. I simply wound your little spring, and bang, you snapped. This wasnt hi jacking the the thread, more like pointing out where the problems lie. Communication!!!!! If you want things changed, get off your bum and contact the people who can change them, dont bitch on on a forum.
Thats pretty much where the problem lies. People find it easier to bitch and moan on a forum than to actually do anything.

[Biggles08]

Biggles. Dont rate yourself too highly. Burt Badger gave you the new International rule. You didnt know it. I simply wound your little spring, and bang, you snapped. This wasnt hi jacking the the thread, more like pointing out where the problems lie. Communication!!!!! If you want things changed, get off your bum and contact the people who can change them, dont bitch on on a forum.
Thats pretty much where the problem lies. People find it easier to bitch and moan on a forum than to actually do anything.

Right...I get off my bum and do something huh? FFS...read the thread and its initial purpose! I quote the original post for your wee pea brain...here it is...

"So if you will be unable to attend, maybe you could post your thoughts here, so those of US, who will be attending will have a wider set of views to work on during the discussions."

thats what I have done as I am unable to get to the Workshop...got it?!

[wharfy]

Well then in that case you just called every nationals racer an arsehole. I do not know of anyone who wouldn't do it. If I had then chance then hell yeah I would do it. It could be the difference between winning a championship and coming second. I've seen it done many a time (haven't had the chance to do it yet) and have no problem with the guys that do it. Other countries don't have that rule so I don't see why we should.

Well as I said it is difficult to tell if someone is "playing" dead or injured, but anyone National racer or not who would feign serious injury (which is what not being able to stand up and signal you are OK implies) is in my opinion being an arsehole.
(They should go and play soccer where it is OK to roll around on the ground pretending to be injured to try and milk a penalty.)

I guess I think I am more likely to be "taken out" than just plain crash ( being a "careful" racer ) and loosing any points I might be up for would be adding insult to injury - but hey I am open to hearing other opinions, and might even be persuaded to change mine. In any event I could live with it if the rule was changed.
We could lay out the various scenario's of how/when the current rule is fair/unfair and repeat the exercise for any proposed change then see what people think is the most fair AND workable.

[Grey Beard]

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE TIMETABLE ETC IS FOR THE WEEKEND.

IN THE NOTICE OF MEETING THEY STATED

"On Saturday 23rd May 2009 from 9am to 1pm and then 2pm to 5pm Commission Workshops shall be held.

The final format is to be confirmed on the MNZ website www.mnz.co.nz"

SURPRISE, SURPRISE.

THAT HASN'T HAPPENED.

IT IS ONLY THREE DAYS AWAY, IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD WHAT'S HAPPENING WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER TO ATTEND.

[koba]

Somthing that I can see that would probably be worth while discussing by parties concerned is in the F3 regs.

Is that bit about 250 mulitcylinder two strokes out dated?

Just a question on my part as I'm not fully in the know about it but it does look like it merits discussion.

It seems very restrictive considering the current pace of the SV's and now the OZZY 450.

Here is the bit from the book.

From Apendix B (Formula 3) of the MNZ rulebook.

1-2 Multi-cylinder and twin-cylinder production based two stroke up to 250cc

4-2 The specifications for 250cc Production based machines eligible under 1-2 above are described in
rule 6 below. oops MNZ that should be 5?

5 Specifications for up to 250cc Production Based machines
All two stroke multi-cylinder machines must comply with these rules. The machine must be based
on a volume production motorcycle that is road legal in New Zealand. No homologation is
necessary however the Road Race Commission or Technical Steward shall have the power to rule
whether or not a machine is eligible. The purpose of these rules is to allow machines to be
competitive in the class whilst preventing purpose built Grand Prix machines or parts from being
used. The major differences between Production based and Grand Prix machines are weight and
horsepower so limitations have been placed in these areas that will both limit performance and be
easy to enforce.
5-1 Capacity
Must not exceed 250cc. Machines with re-bored cylinders must remain within the capacity limit.
5-2 Appearance
The machine must retain the appearance of the original motorcycle. Paint and trade advertising
are not restricted.
169
5-3 Frame Body and Rear sub frame
The frame body must be from the original road going motorcycle. The frame may be polished but
not modified in any other way unless permitted in these rules. The frame must display the Vehicle
Identification Number or chassis number provided by the manufacturer. The frame may be
protected by the addition of material such as carbon fibre covers to prevent damage. The rear sub
frame may be altered or replaced from the point of attachment to the main frame.
5-4 Rear Suspension
The rear swing arm must be from the original road going motorcycle. Rear wheel stand brackets
may be added by welding or by bolts. The rear swing arm may be modified at the attachment point
to accept an after-market rear shock. The frame or swingarm may be modified to allow fitting of a
ride height adjuster. All other suspension components including linkages are optional.
5-5 Engine Specifications
5-5-1 Crankcase, Cylinder, Cylinder Head and Piston. The crankcase, cylinder, cylinder head and piston
must be from the original road going motorcycle. The manufacturer’s identification marks must be
retained, and may be examined to ensure compliance. These parts may be modified without any
further restriction.
5-5-2 Carburettor
The original carburettor may be replaced by any brand or type.
5-5-3 Fuel requirements: see 4 above.
5-5-4 Starting mechanism
For machines fitted with an electric start, the starting system must remain operative.
For machines fitted with a kick start mechanism, the internal mechanism and splined shaft must
remain in place and operative. The kick start lever may be removed from the shaft but must be
available to machine examiners to demonstrate that the kick start mechanism is operational as part
of eligibility checking mentioned below.
5-6 Modifications permitted
Provided all the requirements above are met and the machine complies with the relevant General
Competition Rules, any of the following parts may be altered or replaced: -
5-6-1 Wheels, brakes and tyres are optional. Racing tyres and tyre warmers are permitted.
5-6-2 Front forks, triple clamps, handlebars, steering dampers and front sub frames may be replaced. The
frame may be modified to provide a mount for the steering damper.
5-6-3 Rear shock absorber and linkages are optional provided that the original swingarm is retained. A
ride height adjuster may be fitted.
5-6-4 Fairings, seat and fuel tank are optional. The machine must retain the profile of the original road
going motorcycle. Additional fairing mounts may be added.

[k14]

Well as I said it is difficult to tell if someone is "playing" dead or injured, but anyone National racer or not who would feign serious injury (which is what not being able to stand up and signal you are OK implies) is in my opinion being an arsehole.
(They should go and play soccer where it is OK to roll around on the ground pretending to be injured to try and milk a penalty.)

Well thats your opinion and I thank you for that but no matter what you say it is still not going to change the fact that people do it. I'm not talking about club racing, yes if someone did a hollywood there they wouldn't be too popular, they are just wasting everyones time. But at nationals the stakes are higher. It is very common and everyone is happy as larry to admit to doing so. The usual scenario is fall off, roll/tumble to a stop and don't move. As soon as you see the red flag, jump up and run back to your bike and get back to pits as fast as you can. Ready for the restart.

This can all be changed by one simple rule change (of which other organisations are already progressively changing to). As far as I'm concerned the innocent guy that gets pushed off is totally irrelevant. That happens more often when there isn't a red flag and thats just life sometimes. This is racing and that is the nature of the beast, sometimes you win sometimes you loose.