Porkgate

[monkeymcbean]

Very brave thread 'cave weta' but don't get to down about some of the replies that were'nt what you were expecting as it is a forum place where people like to hide behind the computer screens and sling shit from a distance, and would never post a pic of themselves except fully kitted up and helmeted on there profiles.
As for me, I'm for treating creatures as you would want to be treated yourself, even if you were to be eaten in the end.
As for bikers what out for the animals in the 'cages'.

[Finn]

As for me, I'm for treating creatures as you would want to be treated yourself...

You have sex with animals?

[Finn]

Well at least all this media hype and SAFE bullshit has made some pork sellers more honest...

[ManDownUnder]

You have sex with animals?

... there has to be a joke about some KB women in there somewhere...

[Hitcher]

... there has to be a joke about some KB women in there somewhere...

(Runs for the hills!)

[The Pastor]

Mmmmmmm pork

[terbang]

We don't have problems with pig farms around here (Saudi Arabia)...

[Finn]

We don't have problems with pig farms around here (Saudi Arabia)...

But you've got a lot of cross eyed goats though...

[terbang]

Beautiful camels too...

[monkeymcbean]

Well at least all this media hype and SAFE bullshit has made some pork sellers more honest...

Well im glad your thinking

[Trudes]

I was just sent this:
http://e-activist.com/ea-campaign/cl...mid=88761&jb=0

[ynot slow]

Beautiful camels too...

According to advertising back in the mid 70's,9 out of 10 men preferred camels.(Think it meant the smoke brand).No wonder the marlboro man had a smile.

[monkeymcbean]

You have sex with animals?

Hooplehead!

[Mom]

I have not read the entire thread but here is my spin on this issue.

Just to qualify what I am going to say, I love pigs! I have hundreds of them around the place. They are smart and very clean animals, and make great pets too!

I used to rear them (2 at a time) so we could eat them. I love pork!

I have visited piggeries like the one that was shown on the TV. It is dark (they keep them in the dark so the meat stays nice and white) and it appears from investigations that this particular farm shown meets animal welfare guidelines. There is impetus to improve the conditions that pigs are farmed in, it is just not happening fast enough in my opinion.

Pigs squeal! They are very vocal animals, just because they are making noise does not mean they are in pain or distressed, they do it when pleased to see you too! They can be vicious animals too, and will eat anything, including their young at a pinch. It is not in anyones interest to keep pigs in conditions where they are stressed to the point of having to munch on each other. Out in the open, with plenty of space, that never happens, however, to enjoy our yummy pork roast, cost of production has to be taken into consideration too.

The pork industry are not moving fast enough to improve how some producers operate.

Now, I did not watch the program that this thread is about, I saw shorts and that was enough for me, I am not into watching that sort of thing anyway, but having been there in a way told me all I needed to know anyway.

A few days after the screening of that program I saw an advertisement on TV mentioning the cruel treatment of farmed pigs, with a request for donations to none other than S.A.F.E. What a crock of shit!

This was nothing more than an activist group managing to get their agenda in the public eye, and the media gobbled it up much as a hungry pig would. This was a staged and managed campaign that has been very sucessful in as much as the Pork Industry Board have had to revisit the farming practises of their members. They must be delighted, and good on them too really. As it turns out the place they raided meets the guidelines for Piggy welfare

I read that for every pork producer to move to new and more acceptable farming practices it would raise the cost of pork $2 a kilo. Frankly I would happily pay that. About time they did it! The double the price organic brigade will find and have their market, of that I have no doubt. Make my pork a little more expensive to buy (have you checked the cost of NZ Lamb recently?) for more acceptable farming practices. Organic/free range farmers can command and hopefully get double the going rate per kilo for their efforts.

[Phurrball]

It has been stated by the Pork Mktg Bd fella that as few as 10% actually rely on those sow cages

Good that the industry is moving away from the practice. Poor that it is allowed at all. Hypocritical that it would be illegal to treat any other animal in that way.

Assuming etc is all that most of us have to go on. The media included. SAFE are not to be trusted because they have an agenda against meat producers, and the farmers won't let 'us' see in their sheds even though we wouldn't understand what we are seeing. And pigs are what they are...not the same as any/all other animals. Every kind of farmed animal requires different practices - offsetting welfare against production.

Put the highlighted bit in another context involving humans and it becomes exceptionally disturbing. Humans have rights however. Maybe our kindred creatures will too one day. At the moment they only have the human construct of 'welfare', which is ALWAYS contingent on human interests and needs.

And the meat industry doesn't have an agenda? And powerful influence on NAWAC and advertising budgets and PR retainers and a law that enables their remaining poor welfare practrices... Fuck, they're a multimillion dollar industry who probably donate to political parties too, as opposed to SAFE who rely on donations. SAFE have managed impressive leverage IMHO.

Mistrust SAFE all you like, but there is a massive power imbalance, and it isn't in favour of SAFE.

Perhaps we wouldn't understand because some things are incomprehensible in light of the bigger picture (Like specific exceptions to allow conduct that would be illegal WRT other animals) Every other animal has the protection of the welfare statute. Any practice that is so hard to understand that it requires massive backpedalling and assurance that it is diminishing must surely be OK, right??

There are lower profile animal advocacy organisations out there that mix serious intellectual firepower with a focus on reform from the inside rather than the PR driven campaigns of SAFE (Not that I seek to derogate from SAFE's achievements, if a little 'in your face' for mainstream meat-eaters). Select committees and law reform more than public campaigns. Check out ARLAN's achievements.

You see, that's my problem. You both 'slate' and 'respect' those who sit in judgement. A bit $ each way...

No. I slate a specific area of sentencing where the judiciary sadly reflects society's poor attitude that violence against animals is lesser than violence against humans. I am bound to respect the judiciary, I may of course respectfully disagree. 'Feeble judiciary' within this specific area is descriptive and apt.

See below. Marketing spin. Unless you physically go to the farm, wander out into the paddock, select your chosen victim, capture, kill and process the critter right there, you will never know whether the label is 100% true per the implied source.

Yes, unless there is a specific standard overseen by an independent body.

Honestly Quasi- I started this and now I sit back and wonder why- all it has done is bring to the surface, attitudes that show up individuals as being cold heartless and calous. how can some one who will pat a dog or stroke a cat treat other animals with such public hatered? what message is this to give to your children?

That, ladies and gents, is the crux of it. As a society we treat many animals like shit (and others better than some of our fellow humans). Overall, we have a very sick societal attitude WRT animals.

As I said in my original reply, I didn't start a thread on this issue as there is an apparent bias in KB regarding issues such as this. It's not the best place to discuss socially progressive matters. Previously, I have been fortunate to canvass this issue in a more academic forum without the daftness. Such a thread is a brave endeavour here. Sadly, the nasty posts are to be expected in this environment CW.

Thanks again to the posters from all perspectives that have made worthy contributions.