Porkgate

[Big Dave]

Sad to see any animals suffer - but the correct KB response is to blame the pigs.

[Skyryder]

Sad to see any animals suffer - but the correct KB response is to blame the pigs.

Probably HOG riders in a previous life. That's Karma for ya


Skyryder

[Phurrball]

@MSTRS whether the human dentition and digestive tract are designed to be omnivorous is highly arguable.

Look at our nearest relatives (the great apes) - IIRC, the only meat-eater there is the chimpanzee - and they eat meat rarely. Western humans eat far, far too much meat. It shows in our bowel cancer statistics. Gorillas have pretty mean teeth, but are completely vegetarian. Let's face it though, we have transcended them in that WE have the ability to make a CONSCIOUS CHOICE.

People have to make their own decision to eat meat or be vegetarian.

But too many have their heads in the sand and happily consume all sorts of tidy, sterile meat from packets with not a thought towards where it came from.

If you're aware of the reality and choose to partake, that's up to you. I have less issue with meat eaters of this kind than the 'head in the sand' kind.

@those who don't give a fuck. The nervous systems of animals are basically identical to us. Pigs are so similar, it's possible to use porcine organs in a human (Issues of rejection and procine endogenous retroviruses aside...)

That the law says it's OK to do this to pigs, who are such close cousins is what is really disturbing.

There is an awful lot of science, jurisprudence and philosophy that begs to differ with the assertion that animals are not sentient. It's not really an either/or - In reality it's more of a gradient from unicellular organisms up to mammals, parrots and then the great apes just below humans.

Ponder this: we only have our own perspective. It may just be that some animals feel some things more deeply than us - for example, could a dog more loving and loyal than the average human? We can't really know this for sure. But we can pause to consider it as a possibility. It's very difficult to consider this without anthropomorphic attributions though.

(much smarter people than I have made very good cases for this idea of consciousness and 'emotions' in animals - don't have the refs for this at hand ATM sorry).

Part of being human is empathy. Cruelty to animals is one mark of a psychopath. Truly not giving a shit (as opposed to just saying that) is really only a step away. If you've ever had a pet you cared for, then you probably give more of a shit than you think. It's more likely that you haven't REALLY turned your mind to the issue.

The real issue here is the fact society's rules say we must treat animals a certain way. EXCEPT for pigs and a few others. It's OK to treat them in a way that would be illegal for any other animal. THAT'S what is truly wrong here. (Oh, and invertebrates get no protection whatsoever)

Humans may be on top, and capable of the most precise, beautiful and rational higher thought in this part of the galaxy, but face it - we're basically a pack of c^nts WRT animals and the environment. I don't think it's OK to accept that when we could do so much better. (And I include myself in that. I could do a lot better.)

/Rant

[Hitcher]

Sad to see any animals suffer - but the correct KB response is to blame the pigs.

Boom tish! Give that man a VB, for forsooth he is on a roll this evening!

[Hitcher]

Humans may be on top, and capable of the most precise, beautiful and rational higher thought in this part of the galaxy, but face it - we're basically a pack of c^nts WRT animals and the environment. I don't think it's OK to accept that when we could do so much better. (And I include myself in that. I could do a lot better.)

Although they could be better, New Zealand's animal welfare standards are pretty darned good on a global basis. But I don't think that is SAFE's motivation here in "exposing" this matter which, in case anybody still hasn't heard, involved trespass and illegal entry into a commercial piggery that, while code compliant, is owned by a farmer who has plans to invest in a superior facility from an animal welfare standpoint.

There are many reasons for choosing not to eat meat, but the "sentient beings" reason is probably one of the sillier. About the only animal on this planet (apart from those that are lethally toxic) that isn't on humanity's menu is humanity itself. There are good reasons for this, particularly moral and ethical ones about consuming one's own kind, but there are also legitimate health reasons too. I understand that human flesh is quite delicious when properly prepared. In particular liver, which is allegedly delicious served with fava beans and washed down with a good chianti.

Like any other religious believers, I am more than happy to coexist with Buddhists or even vegans for that matter, on the condition that they do not proselytise and don't unnecessarily protest if I consume them if there is nothing else around to eat.

[scracha]

Although they could be better, New Zealand's animal welfare standards are pretty darned good on a global basis

If by "global" you mean including the majority of the world's standards which are third world then you are correct. If by first world, then I think you're talking shite.

To be perfectly honest I just don't give a fuck how they are treated. Really, couldn't care less.

Dunno if you and Lias are trying to draw attention to yourselves in the same way as Sidewinter and the mormon few but you've got mine.

I'm no greenie townie either, I've killed and skinned animals but they led a good life, died quickly and it was for a purpose. I've got a tough as nails mate who's happens to be a butcher and he despairs at the way kiwi's treat their animals. I'm VERY wary of anyone who couldn't care about animal welfare. There's something not right in the head about the sort of person who can watch another living thing suffer unnecessarily.

Sad really.

[Hitcher]

If by first world, then I think you're talking shite.

I'm feeling polite tonight, so I shall suggest that perhaps you may wish to do some study on this matter.

[scracha]

I'm feeling polite tonight, so I shall suggest that perhaps you may wish to do some study on this matter.

I'm sure you'll educate me but regardless, if other countries find it acceptable to mistreat animals then I guess it's OK for us then? Hey, that gives me an idea...doesn't the majority of the world treat women as 2nd class citizens.......\

I keep hearing Kiwi's waffling on about how they lead the world on this, and lead the world on that, and how they invented this first and do this the best. So it's funny that when they do something that can at best be described as dishonourable, they come out with "well they're faaaar worse than us" or similar comments.

How about NZ stands up for itself and tells the rest of the world to go fuck themselves when it comes to importing CHEAP pork (and other meat) from countries that can't adhere to the standards that the majority of the NZ populace demands.

I'd be far more impressed by the above than the hypocritical "no nuke" but "coal powered power stations and filthy polluting cars are OK" stance we have.

[mynameis]

Sad to see any animals suffer - but the correct KB response is to blame the pigs.

Yeap and everything in the media is BULLSHIT and what's posted on KB by the "know it all" is the gospel truth.

[mynameis]

Phurrball has just owned a few old KB asses

[gatch]

Dunno if you and Lias are trying to draw attention to yourselves

No this is not a popularity contest and I'm not trying to show you how hard I am. Good for you if you care, though do you care enough to actually "stop the torture" ? Have you tried to get the laws changed ?

[Hitcher]

I'm sure you'll educate me but regardless, if other countries find it acceptable to mistreat animals then I guess it's OK for us then?

If you believe that then go right ahead. "Mistreatment" of animals, and women for that matter, is largely a matter of societal norms. As our culture evolves, so too do the standards that we apply to our behaviours. Drink driving and tobacco smoking are two examples.

Compared to most other societies, New Zealand sets a high standard for animal welfare and has codes that continually raise the bar. It's a deliberate strategy intended to stop other countries using our farming practices as a trade barrier against us.

http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/regs/animal-welfare/nz

[mynameis]

If you believe that then go right ahead. "Mistreatment" of animals, and women for that matter, is largely a matter of societal norms. As our culture evolves, so too do the standards that we apply to our behaviours. Drink driving and tobacco smoking are two examples.

Compared to most other societies, New Zealand sets a high standard for animal welfare and has codes that continually raise the bar. It's a deliberate strategy intended to stop other countries using our farming practices as a trade barrier against us.

http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/regs/animal-welfare/nz

Except when it comes to pigs, you can treat them like shit.

[gatch]

oops, noob mistake..

please delete..

[scracha]

No this is not a popularity contest and I'm not trying to show you how hard I am. Good for you if you care, though do you care enough to actually "stop the torture" ? Have you tried to get the laws changed ?

Yes, I do my bit. Not as much as some tho'

There's nothing hard about mistreating animals.

Did I mention anything about exporting live animals for slaughter in order to save a few bucks?