Kiwibiker Mentors - Opinion

[MSTRS:Me]

There are people out there who offer training for money. They can be found through KB as well. As I said before, KB can be a great resource. But those people are operating outside of KB, as an 'entity', and one would hope that they have the likes of Public Liability Insurance etc as part of their operation.
No such cover is offered by KB since the program consists of amateurs helping amateurs. It's been well-publicised as to the conditions those helpers had to meet, so there could be at least some certainty that they would have the skills reqd. That some on here feel that some of the mentors don't measure up is sad, but that may only be their opinion, where others had/have a different opinion. As I also said way back, there will be reviews held periodically to check on individual performance and perhaps even the mentor program as well.

[Mental Trousers]

How bout we go for "teaching" then. It all sounds like verbal masturbation to me to be honest. Group mentoring?

You're talking about legal shit, of course it's masturbation.

[PrincessBandit]

I have passed the UK Police Class A riders and in that you MUST be fast through or fail. They call it "Making progress" if you can't safely get through traffic faster than a car then they argue you are not skilled enough. They also teach "filtering" which is contraversal yet they are regarded as the highest level of motorcycle street training.

This question is not intended to take a swipe - it is a genuine query: Is the test you refer to for the general riding population, or is it a test executed within the Police Academy/Training school thingy? Your comment could be misinterpreted if it turns out that it's a Police training thing. If it is a test for motorcycle riders in general which comes under the Police umbrella, then I see the relevance. I guess if it's the former rather than the latter then what applies to police bike cops doesn't necessarily translate to what non-law enforcement riders need to be able to do. Sorry if I'm barking up the totally wrong tree, i just think it needs clarification.

[discotex]

The requirements for becoming a mentor were posted in http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...20&postcount=2

Requirements start at 10 years experience and come down. The more Desirable qualities a person has, the lower the time requirement gets. Dropping to minimum 7 years required is relatively easy. Dropping to minimum 5 years experience is very hard. Nobody goes below 5 years experience unless they are qualified Riding Instructors, multiple New Zealand title holders or other exceptional circumstances (Administrators discretion).

This is what I don't understand... 7-10 years?

I have a bunch of knowledge around roadcraft and bike handling to pass on to learners - and I will continue to do so regardless of the KB system. Just seems odd I couldn't be nominated if someone happened to think I should be.

People like gijoe, Donor and Maverick are in this boat as well and as already mentioned would make great mentors. Hell gijoe has probably ridden more km than some mentors will do in 10 years.

Maybe there should be a "held full license for >2 years if you're over 25" rule or something as I'm sure the intent was to weed out nutty 20 year old know-it-alls.


So now, who's going to be my trackday mentor and give me the learn?

[Jantar]

This is what I don't understand... 7-10 years?

I have a bunch of knowledge around roadcraft and bike handling to pass on to learners - and I will continue to do so regardless of the KB system. Just seems odd I couldn't be nominated if someone happened to think I should be.

....

So now, who's going to be my trackday mentor and give me the learn?

The reason for the long experience time is to ensure that the mentor has a wide variety of experience. Different types of bikes, different roads, different weather conditions etc. It isn't only newbie riders who ask for mentors, it may be returning riders on a 109, or an experienced road rider who is looking for adventure, or a rural rider who has moved to the city (or visa versa). Where someone is a specialist in a particular field, the time may be reduced, but never below 5 years total riding.

Now we are not saying that you shouldn't continue to pass on your experience to learners. That would be counter productive, and its good that any rider will pass on what they have personally experienced. As you do pass on your knowledge you will also gain knowledge on assessing riders, and in time that gain will make you a good mentor.

As for a trackday mentor? We do have a couple of experienced racers who may be prepared to help.

[98tls]

Complicated all this eh,to be honest i am just glad i learnt to ride in the mentorless years as with all this going on there would be no time left to ride.

[DMNTD:Me]

So now, who's going to be my trackday mentor and give me the learn?

More than happy to offer opinion

[boomer]

More than happy to offer opinion

On how to receive..??!

[reofix]

mentors are like mba's... sold and taught by failures... caveat emptor

[OutForADuck]

This question is not intended to take a swipe - it is a genuine query: Is the test you refer to for the general riding population, or is it a test executed within the Police Academy/Training school thingy? Your comment could be misinterpreted if it turns out that it's a Police training thing. If it is a test for motorcycle riders in general which comes under the Police umbrella, then I see the relevance. I guess if it's the former rather than the latter then what applies to police bike cops doesn't necessarily translate to what non-law enforcement riders need to be able to do. Sorry if I'm barking up the totally wrong tree, i just think it needs clarification.

So to clarify the test is for the Police AND is also used to teach the advanced instructors for the IAM group which is monitored by the police for standards. I completed the NZ course as a member of the police but the UK one from outside the Police.

IAM can be explained here http://www.iam.org.uk/ and the motorcycle stuff is covered here http://www.iam.org.uk/aboutus/IAM+Motorcycling/

Basically its a charity that organises mentoring in a more structured way than KB attempts to and with the support of the UK Met. All advanced instructors must have passed the Class A motorcycle course at Hendon and "students" are mentored for as long as it takes to get to test standard and are then assessed by a Police instructor on an observed ride and passed or failed (The pass can equal large savings on insurance etc in the uk so it is all taken seriously).

HOpe that helps to clarify. Its the same sort of thing as attempted by KB but in a much more mature structure... I am sure though, that it started with someone or people thinking we can do something as a community to increase everyones skills, enjoyment and likelyhood of staying alive.

[pritch]

It's not completely suprising that this thread has every one so exercised...

There would be zero chance of getting agreement among all KBers as to what constitutes a "good rider". Similarly there seems to be the proverbial snowball's chance in Hell of much agreement as to exactly what a "mentor" is.

Accordingly this topic is ripe for disagreements and the swapping of insults.
So carry on guys... :slap:

For the record, I'm available to help anyone who wants it and who is prepared to listen. I'm not interested in applications, or referees, or coloured letters after my name, but I do wish the scheme every success.

[discotex]

More than happy to offer opinion

Thanks

Planning on running group 3 at the next MotoTT day to get back into the swing. Would be great if you could show me some lines for a few laps and/or follow me and comment on what I'm doing good or bad.

[Owl]

Well I wish this scheme every success! It may not be perfect, but what the hell is in this day and age. There has been some fair concerns raised in this thread, but I'd like to think the scheme will improve in time.

Isn't it possible that guidence or advice given up till now may have already saved a life or avoided a serious injury? We will never know, but that in itself makes this scheme worthwhile. I refuse to believe it has done more harm than good, but I guess the future will be the judge.

Best of luck Mentors!

[sugilite:Me]

Too right. I know anthony is a great bloke and races when he can. I've also witness some shady pasing manuvours by Sugi on the odd group ride , yeah I'm not perfect either. Some nominations seem to be self gratifying same goes for mod selection. Basically it appears to be who you know, not how good they are to carry out the task Anthony is a good nomination for mentor btw.

Were there trees overhanging the road?

I just got onto KB for the 1st time in a while, I've been busy of late in the 3D world, go figure! Since I got mentioned a few times in this thread, I thought I'd share my thoughts on the subject as it pertains to me personally

I was asked to be a mentor and I had a good think about that. Once the system was explained to me, I felt ok with it. My perception of the mentor system is it is basically an opportunity to share experience with a fellow enthusiest on an informal basis. It is up to each individual if they want to incorporate any of that information into their own riding. Seems straight forward to me.

I won't be out to create sugi clones. yeah, sure I race/raced, but I certainly won't be 'teaching' people how to ride fast, or how to perform perceived shady passing maneuvers!

Should my mentorship be accepted, some of the things I'm wanting to share in no particular order are...
Smooth riding, gear changes, braking, cornering lines etc.
Creating time and space to react to unexpected hazards.
Smooth pillioning.
Lines (no centre line crossing on my mentoring sessions)
Reading road condition, factoring in a multitude of different parameters.
Very basic bike setup, as in correct positioning of hand and foot controls etc (getting your hand to that perfectly placed brake lever could be the difference in making it home rubber side down or not!)
A bit of basic bike maintenance, chain tension, lubing, tyre pressures and such.
Using the whole body in conjunction with throttle position to steer the bike effortlessly through corners.
In short, I take a fairly holistic approach in sharing the steps to attain that sublime zen state where rider and bike operate as one.

There won't be a certificate provided at the end of a session for your wall, but you may just get a smile on your dial from effortlessly gliding through a series of corners....knowing YOU got them just right!

[DingoZ]

Should my mentorship be accepted, some of the things I'm wanting to share in no particular order are...
Smooth riding, gear changes, braking, cornering lines etc.
Creating time and space to react to unexpected hazards.
Smooth pillioning.
Lines (no centre line crossing on my mentoring sessions)
Reading road condition, factoring in a multitude of different parameters.
Very basic bike setup, as in correct positioning of hand and foot controls etc (getting your hand to that perfectly placed brake lever could be the difference in making it home rubber side down or not!)
A bit of basic bike maintenance, chain tension, lubing, tyre pressures and such.
Using the whole body in conjunction with throttle position to steer the bike effortlessly through corners.
In short, I take a fairly holistic approach in sharing the steps to attain that sublime zen state where rider and bike operate as one.

There won't be a certificate provided at the end of a session for your wall, but you may just get a smile on your dial from effortlessly gliding through a series of corners....knowing YOU got them just right!

I'd travel for a few hours to be able to partake in some of that extensive list.

Nice one...