New Zealand. What a back water shit hole.

[husaberg]

Well, Paparoa, just out of ChCh is the largest organic vege supplier in NZ. Programme started by a keen motorcycle racer too...
I believe they're currently churning out relocatable houses too - and qualified builders labourers as a side product.

Plenty of Pigs
I think they used to make wooden Pallets as well

[jasonu]

What the fuck is this bullshit?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12151406

[oldrider]

What the fuck is this bullshit?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12151406

Just what you said it is - it's "bullshit" - of the highest order!

[bikaholic]

To be fair a condition of residency is he is not allowed to provide false information to a government agency for five years.
How many MPs can keep that up.

[jasonu]

Look at this bullshit. No swift justice in Un Zud.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12161145

[seattle smitty]

Since I'm know nothing about your local issues, let me comment on something now back a couple of pages:

Then why not just shoot them?

And I'm not being entirely hyperbolic.

If you want to remove them from society - Kill them and be done with it. Of course, if it's for a Minor crime, at some point they will be let out of prison - what then? If they haven't been rehabilitated and they just go on to re-offend - what was the point of releasing them? Again, Kill them and be done with it.

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison - removal of freedoms and 'punishment' is a bonus - because unless you either never release them or execute them - at some point they are going to re-enter society and what then? If someone only knows how to be a Criminal - what will they do when released?



Do you think that the average Criminal thinks about the consequences of their actions? It's why the Death Penalty has never worked as a deterrent. And then you have the issue that if they 'survive' such a prison and are released - you've just managed to make them an even better Criminal.

Well, D-Lord, last part first, these guys are like motorcyclists in thinking they can get away with what they do indefinately, and some do.

As to "just kill them," one of the regular annoyances of being an American is being lectured by all of the more "progressive" folk in the UK and Europe about our "barbaric and archaic" death penalty. The Economist, otherwise one of the few remaining newsmagazines worth reading, is unable to put out an issue without waving its finger at us. Well, I'm glad that OUR general response is to give them the finger. I say that any society which is incapable of executing, for instance, a man who rapes a little girl and then cuts off her arms and legs, has showed itself to be impotent in asserting basic justice. A man who has made thievery his life's work has cancelled his right to live among us, even as a permanently imprisoned ward of honest taxpayers.

About a year ago, I was reading and watching my clothes in a coin-op laundry when I struck up a conversation with an older (but younger than me) black man. He told me he was nearing retirement after many years as a prison guard, having worked in federal, state, and local facilities at various points. I asked him what he thought about the chances of typical inmates of actually being rehabilitated. He snorted derisively and said, "They're all wise guys! It's how they see themselves, and it's what they want to be. They think everybody cheats and works the system, and that they were just unlucky enough to get caught. They have a million excuses for this, that they had no connections, or were the wrong color, you name it." He thought a little more, and said, "Oh, there are a few who can be rehabilitated, but mostly it's a waste of time with these guys."

[jasonu]

Cunts like this should be kicked into a hole and shot but instead they get let off multiple times until they finally do something really bad.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/n...stic-violence/

[pete376403]

Cunts like this should be kicked into a hole and shot but instead they get let off multiple times until they finally do something really bad.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/n...stic-violence/

But WTF is the judge on? To let this cunt go again and again, while all the "agencies" run and hide to pretend they were not aware of the problem? The only people who come out of this looking ok are the poice, and they get ignored.

[RDJ]

But WTF is the judge on? To let this cunt go again and again, while all the "agencies" run and hide to pretend they were not aware of the problem? The only people who come out of this looking ok are the poice, and they get ignored.

Criminals are not all stupid. They do not go after judges* / lawyers.

* The likelihood of a judge or judge's family being attacked / assaulted / killed is actually slightly more than two orders of magnitude less than for us gen. pop. So - judges can signal their virtue by letting the murderous / rapists etc. out on bail or free, without fear of any consequences for them. We cannot even democratically get a judge recalled. Plus, platinum-plated super, and really really short working hours.

** Remember one exception - the guy who machete-attacked Judge Augusta Wallace in chambers? Want an example of one law for thee and another for me? Check what happened to that guy...

[F5 Dave]

I'm pretty good at judging people, how do I get in.?

[TheDemonLord]

Since I'm know nothing about your local issues, let me comment on something now back a couple of pages:

Well, D-Lord, last part first, these guys are like motorcyclists in thinking they can get away with what they do indefinately, and some do.

And that's the point - it's not the severity of the punishment that is the real deterrent - it's the likelihood of getting Caught.

As to "just kill them," one of the regular annoyances of being an American is being lectured by all of the more "progressive" folk in the UK and Europe about our "barbaric and archaic" death penalty. The Economist, otherwise one of the few remaining newsmagazines worth reading, is unable to put out an issue without waving its finger at us. Well, I'm glad that OUR general response is to give them the finger. I say that any society which is incapable of executing, for instance, a man who rapes a little girl and then cuts off her arms and legs, has showed itself to be impotent in asserting basic justice. A man who has made thievery his life's work has cancelled his right to live among us, even as a permanently imprisoned ward of honest taxpayers.

So - by what means do you use to draw the line? and then using said means - WHERE do you draw the line? I've got a fair amount of issue with the US use of the Death Penalty - FWIW - the closest country that maintains capital punishment that I agree with, would be Japan.

The main points of contention being that I don't consider a single Murder grounds for the Death Penalty, nor do I consider the redefinition of per-meditation in some states to be fractions of seconds of thought before committing the act.

About a year ago, I was reading and watching my clothes in a coin-op laundry when I struck up a conversation with an older (but younger than me) black man. He told me he was nearing retirement after many years as a prison guard, having worked in federal, state, and local facilities at various points. I asked him what he thought about the chances of typical inmates of actually being rehabilitated. He snorted derisively and said, "They're all wise guys! It's how they see themselves, and it's what they want to be. They think everybody cheats and works the system, and that they were just unlucky enough to get caught. They have a million excuses for this, that they had no connections, or were the wrong color, you name it." He thought a little more, and said, "Oh, there are a few who can be rehabilitated, but mostly it's a waste of time with these guys."

Okay - so the national Average for re-offending for the US (from 2011) is 43%, For Norway - it's 20%, so half of the US.

Now - if we want a system of pain, suffering etc. - then let's bring back torture, let's go all in with the Death Penalty etc. etc. and let's take a long, hard look at ourselves when our Justice looks more like ISIS.

If, however - we want a system that unfortunate, unlucky, damaged, criminally hardened, desperate etc. individuals enter into, and leave (with an 80% success rate) as productive members of society, then perhaps it's time to rethink our approach.

I can assure you - this is not something that sits well with me either, to dispense with the 'punishment' aspect of prison seems an affront to my natural sense of Justice - and yet, I'd rather have a system that fixes or re-skills individuals so that they can come back to society and be productive.

[Drew]

I can assure you - this is not something that sits well with me either, to dispense with the 'punishment' aspect of prison seems an affront to my natural sense of Justice - and yet, I'd rather have a system that fixes or re-skills individuals so that they can come back to society and be productive.

You'll never have to worry about it, kiwis would throw a shit fit if the government spent any resources on bettering criminals.

The thread title is particularly apt.

[Ocean1]

You'll never have to worry about it, kiwis would throw a shit fit if the government spent any resources on bettering criminals.

The thread title is particularly apt.

Dude, by the time they hit pokey every single one of them has had multiple chances to behave in a way that doesn't hurt their fellow Kiwis, and declined every single one of those chances.

Every one of them has already shown that they're not prepared to be responsible for their own behavior, over and over again. Could we spend even more on "rehabilitating" them? Sure, and for some of them it might actually work. But unless you've got some new amazingly effective way to spend all that extra then the law of diminishing returns applies, and the public cost of their behavior is already hideous. Every criminal has already cost Kiwi taxpayers more than they could ever repay, even if they did straighten up and fly right, how much more do you want to spend on yet more chances?

So let's not try to pretend it's the general public's fault that criminals are criminals, eh?

[TheDemonLord]

You'll never have to worry about it, kiwis would throw a shit fit if the government spent any resources on bettering criminals.

The thread title is particularly apt.

Well hang on a second there.

Ocean raises a good point that many of the Criminals have had an exceptionally disproportionate amount spent on them, made even more horrendous by the fact they both contribute nothing and cost others.

On the flip side though - there have been many well meaning, but poorly thought out programs that have cost the taxpayer lots, with little to no return on investment.

If you tell me - that with some investment, you could guarantee me that 80% of people that went through the Prison system, never went back in - I'd be interested.

Of course - if I do my Ocean impression, if that guarantee is breached, there would also have to be some form of penalty for those that failed to implement it.

[Dadpole]

Every released prisoner who does not re-offend saves the taxpayer many times the cost of rehab.

Offering no rehabilitation only ensures high rates of re-offending. This is a winning policy when a country has privately run prisons and business wants more of the taxpayers money.