ESE's works engine tuner

[cotswold]

Scotts F5 bike

Attachment 294111

Red line is where we were, blue is where we are at now after cutting 30mm out of the mid section, still a little more work needed on the pipe but will give it a run at Mt Welly this weekend and if it survives we will bring it to Tokoroa.[/QUOTE]

Looks like my dyno run but 1.6hp better, what is the cause of that big dip? is it just the pipe?

[wobbly]

The big hole is an indication that there is a huge mismatch in the engines specs somewhere.
The porting is fighting the pipe or the ignition curve is wrong.
Was the ignition changed at all when you shortened the pipe and moved the powerband so dramatically.
The curve for sure cant be right for both runs on the dyno.
It could also be the fuel curve is way out,needing a different main/air corrector, but again the jetting cant have been "right " for both setups on the dyno.

[F5 Dave]

Best Degree Wheel Ever.

Probably find that's a $60 record in some circles. You might need to go shoot the guy so he's in the paper and sends the price skyrocketing. It's a little immoral & you might go to jail, but the fiduciary responsibility is yours to ensure your investment prospers.

[sonic_v]

Attachment 294109

5 days from ordering the new stator from Ricks Stators and receiving it, pretty good I recon.

Attachment 294110

Scotts F5 bike

Attachment 294111

Red line is where we were, blue is where we are at now after cutting 30mm out of the mid section, still a little more work needed on the pipe but will give it a run at Mt Welly this weekend and if it survives we will bring it to Tokoroa.

What diameter is your midsection? It looks like upwards of 100mm.

Are you running the std cylinder or one of the after market ones?

[twotempi]

"Probably find that's a $60 record in some circles"

If you look for some Barry Manilow records they should be cheaper and you certainly won't regret using them as timing discs.

[F5 Dave]

But I won't be using my UK pressing of Rattus Norvegicus.

I youtubed the other chap & he has 1/2 doz listings. Never heard of him, seems to do covers. He certainly didn't write 'If I were a carpenter'. But then again I've only heard Robert Plant sing it so who cares about other versions?

[speedpro]

I have Rattus Norvegicas, probably been played less then 1/2 doz times.

[TZ350]

Here's how I mounted my sensor. I drilled-tapped an old head bolt and screwed a stud.

Attachment 263052

My sensor has a PN 0-261-231-001, what's yours?
According to this http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockCalculator.aspx , deto freq for 56mm bore should be 10.2kHz.
According to Bosch datasheets for PN -047 & -120, sensors are able to catch frequencies from 1 to 20 kHz. I assume all Bosch sensors can sense knock within this range (?)

Attachment 263081

BOSCH p/n 0 261 231 046

Attachment 263082

Other sensors can be found here too. http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4563.htm

I found some steel head bolts and faced one off, then drilled and tapped it. And made a standoff that was carefully faced off as the knock sensor likes to be securely mounted on a very flat surface. The black goop (silicon glue) on the blue wire is there as a strain relief and hopefully it will stop the vibration breaking the wire where it is attached to the copper head fin.

Posted because I was recently asked about the det sensor I used. I earthed one of the two wires.

Probably does not matter which. As knock sensors usually only have one wire I guess they are earthed through the brass part of the body. So I am not sure if you need to earth one wire or if there are two sensors in this unit to cover a wider range of frequencies. Anyway mine worked with one of the wires earthed.

[Neal]

Posted because I was recently asked about the det sensor I used. I earthed one of the two wires.

Do you have a det counter or just a light ?

[TZ350]

It all works on the frequency of the vibration, an engine at 12,000rpm is 200 hz and detonation rings at a much higher frequency, like 1-10kHz. The detector attached to the knock sensor is responding to the frequency of the vibration, not the p-p amplitude.

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4563.htm

Attachment 264977

Do you have a det counter or just a light ?

Hi Neal, the detector/amplifier I got of Ebay comes with lights and I currently use an optional extra output to signal the ignition to retard when there is detonation. I recently got another detector with two extra outputs, one for the ignition retard and another for a det counter. I have not got around to trying the det counter yet.

Attachment 270747

I have just received another Knock Gauge, this one has two extra outputs. http://www.knockgauge.eu/content/blogcategory/22/41/

YouTube links showing the Knock Gauge in action.

The two green lights, the orange warning light then you see the red det light. http://youtu.be/aZkZR-JBr_E and http://youtu.be/vFoZyw_sHmA

Like last time, one that goes to ground for signaling the IgniTec to retard and a new one that pulses from 0V to +5V each time the Knock Gauge sees a detonation event.

The Curtis event counter can then count the detonations. Now I have the makings of a det sensor, ignition retarder and det counter.

The Trumeter 7111 is no longer stocked by RS but they do have something similar.

Attachment 269009

703TR002N-512D RS part number 183-5952 $63.50 ... 5-12V and less than 10mA so easily self powered and at 500Hz fast enough to count all deto events as seen by the Knock Gauge or similar, as 200Hz in a 2-Stroke equals 12,000 rpm.

Attachment 269008

And here is something if you want to try your hand at making a complete det counter for your self.

Attachment 269011

RS part number 185-6090 $45.30

You could box this along with an amp or frequency filter from Jaycar and make you own little compact det counter.

Attachment 269012

Electrical specs.

Attachment 269014

Two different ways to go, with an amp you would count the high amplitude deto peaks or you could use a band or high pass frequency filter and count whatever passes through it.

This post links back to various cheap counters that could be used with the Knock Gauge.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-...e9e926&vxp=mtr

If you have an amplifier/detector like the one I got of Ebay the very left green light will be on when the ignition is on and then you tune it so that you get a strong second green light when your starting a dyno pull on WOT and the middle orange lights should just start to come on when your at max power, and you will not miss the very bright right hand red light when there is deto.

You have to tune it because cylinders are different diameters and therefore deto has a different frequencie on a big cylinder compared to a smaller diameter one. If your getting one of these, don't forget to get it with the optional extra wires out for switching the ignition, det counter etc other wise you will only get a box with lights.

A head bolt is probably best, For a V twin Twin .... get another knock sensor from pick a part and wire them in parallel that way you will see deto on either cylinder otherwise go for the known troublesome one.

[TZ350]

What diameter is your midsection? It looks like upwards of 100mm.

Are you running the std cylinder or one of the after market ones?

Running an aftermarket cylinder with the exhaust raised to 192 duration.

Pipe mid section is about 110mm diameter.

Would the bulge have a similar effect on a single Ex port ??

That depends on the port width. A single port will not be as wide as the total width of a bridged port, so the effect will be less pronounced, but the principle remains the same: each particle of exhaust gas wants to leave the building ASAP and the shortest path is radially outward. Therefore the radial lines from the center of the cylinder bore to the edges of the exhaust port describe the initial shape of the exhaust duct's side flanks.

But the duct volume should be no larger than absolutely necessary, so continuing those radial lines would be counter-productive. As the exhaust duct floor drops, these side flanks can be curved towards each other, keeping the flow cross-area of the duct constant. The picture shows the underside of the duct.

Attachment 288391

One of the Team brought one of these Stage6 road bike cylinders. (the others are listed as Road/Race)

Attachment 288393

A good looking cylinder but it needs a little work in the exhaust port.

Attachment 288392

Top edge was marked out and chamfered back.

Attachment 288394

Then the port roof was raised and the sides shaped like Frits suggested.

In this view, the curved top of the ports is an optical allusion, they are in fact flat and the sides at the bottom that look flat are actually curved up.

Attachment 288395

I was worried about the Nicosil pealing off above the exhaust port but this cylinder has done a bit of time on the dyno now, and so far so good.

[TZ350]

Friends have been asking me, "whats happened to the fuel injection project".

Well I hogged so much dyno time chasing my tail that I have had to take a break for a bit while we get some of the other team projects sorted. Once I knew the EFI project was going to work I was happy to take a break for a few weeks and help out with the other bikes.



I am now waiting on some new fuel injectors, when they turn up I will be back into it and hopefully after I have tided the installation up have something to take to the track for real life testing.

[Kickaha]

Two stroke and CVT, bit bigger than a bucket though, about 15 sec in there's some shots of the cvt working

[sonic_v]

110mm is very fat for a 50cc.

Thats equivalent to a 148mm pipe on a 125.

You will be chasing your tail with that pipe.

Have you tried calculating the volume ratio of the pipe before shortening it. I would say it might will be in the fifty mark.

The catalogue image you show is for scooter cylinders. Is it actually one of these you have used or an am6 equivalent?

[TZ350]

You will be chasing your tail with that pipe.

The catalog image you show is for scooter cylinders. Is it actually one of these you have used or an am6 equivalent?

Thanks for the Heads Up, we are just starting to learn about pipes.

Hmmmm we were given it, I am not very familiar with these cylinders. I wanted to check it out and all I can realy say is, that it was a low spec (short ex duration) Stage 6 cylinder and it looks like that one and not any of the others.