Oddball engines and prototypes

[Bonez]

This photo is unbelievable. And what these two young heads thought in the green meadow……

Sometimes fighters pilots tried change flight path of V1 with a light touch of the wing.

Quite a few succeeded and there is B&W footage of it being done. It really pissed Herr Hitler off.

The affect of the V1 was more psychological. Hearing the V1 pulse jet fly over, stopping and had no idea where it was going to impact.

That V2 in katinas pic is too tidy for it ever to have ever flown. I was an armourer in a previous life..

[WilDun]

I like how that very compact little starter engine in the Junkers jet engine was used to spool up the compressor! - definitely no room for expansion chambers there!

Sorry, but that's why I keep going on about getting rid of the chamber and maybe replace it with a much more compact inexpensive little turbo! (not saying that I know a lot about that you understand - just what I've been hearing lately).

[WilDun]

Quite a few succeeded and there is B&W footage of it being done. It really pissed Herr Hitler off.

The affect of the V1 was more psychological. Hearing the V1 pulse jet fly over, stopping and had no idea where it was going to impact.

That V2 in katinas pic is too tidy for it ever to have ever flown. I was an armourer in a previous life..

Just thinking, I was actually alive in those days! - time flies! - the V2 was a fearsome weapon and untouchable!
Luckily remote control systems were not quite as advanced!!

[katinas]

Around 20 May 1944, a relatively undamaged V-2 rocket fell on the swampy bank of the Bug River near the village of Sarnaki, south of Siemiatycze, and local Poles managed to hide it before Germans arrived. The rocket was then dismantled and smuggled across Poland.
But yes, that Reims V2 maybe never flow and just little possibility of being pulled from the Vesle.

V-2 rocket being recovered from the Bug River near Sarnaki, about 129 km (80 mi) east of Warsaw

[katinas]

A little reflection, may be related to the Rygerised engine. Not about max power, just about very low Rygerised Honda NS engine torque at mid range, same with two different type of cylinders and different pistons shapes.

Add simplified different schemes, that was tested with pure intake through transfers, without any accommodation from crankcase pressure at BDC, just fluctuations through transfers. The engine response to different schemes has nothing to do with what I expected. Such a huge change, unbelievable.

The first thought about 1 type results, led me straight to 4 type of my NS Ryger's attempt three years ago, when there was very difficult to get out from nearly zero torque between 4000-8000 rpm. So similar engine response.

On Rygerised engine 4 type, transfers ports are connected with under piston pressure at BDC and this is why it was still possible to jump over zero torque interval, unlike with even stronger pulse of 1 type on normal engine, with special piston.
If that’s the answer, maybe worth testing with stepped piston

The published homologated Ryger scheme intake, is very similar, direct to transfers and partly to center, so I can guess that they had a bad mid range torque. But I know nothing about the original Ryger prototype which may be different.
Add red color, on Ryger engine photo, this was simplified example how just deeper pocket in the plate can revert 1 type to 2 type.

In Jbiplane design nice bottom pockets, say like for 2 type, but sadly he must use std cylinders, without big side intake boyesen tunnels, just normal center intake window . So it was impossible for him to extract real advantage of piston configuration, that helps charge engine directly through transfers ports, via crank space.

[WilDun]

A little reflection, may be related to the Rygerised engine. Not about max power, ........................

! am not familiar with the Ryger (didn't pay much attention when all the controversy was on!).
What I would like to find is a link with some explanation on exactly how it works! (sort of "Ryger For Dummies")

[husaberg]

! am not familiar with the Ryger (didn't pay much attention when all the controversy was on!).
What I would like to find is a link with some explanation on exactly how it works! (sort of "Ryger For Dummies")

The Ryger effect is a process in which large amounts of money are transformed into over-hyped smoke and mirrors, gag orders and condescending insults to anyone who questions the validly in anyway of a secret design that alledgdly makes 1.5 times the power of the most powerfull engine 70Hp for a 125 and revs to 30,000rpm

[WilDun]

The Ryger effect is a process in which large amounts of money are transformed into over-hyped smoke and mirrors, gag orders and condescending insults to anyone you questions the validly in anyway.

ok, I guess I shouldn't bother then? - Reminds me of our own Rick Maine when he fleeced the Aussies in the saga of his 'revolutionary engine'!- remember him in the early nineties?

[husaberg]

ok, I guess I shouldn't bother then? - Reminds me of our own Rick Maine when he fleeced the Aussies in the saga of his 'revolutionary engine'!- remember him in the early nineties?

Sorry Will i was being flippant.
Katinas is doing some interesting stuff with his own version

[WilDun]

Sorry Will i was being flippant.
Katinas is doing some interesting stuff with his own version

Being Flippant - that's a concept I understand very well! - Guess I'm a combination of both really!
I believe that Flippancy, Bullshit, Blarney, Sarcasm etc. - (call it what you will) is a very necessary part of life as well! ...... If you can't be flippant now and then, what's the point of living?

Yes Katinas seems to have done a lot toward exploring the Ryger thing! - not that I had ever tried to understand it at the time!

[katinas]

WilDun, there has been a lot of talk about Ryger and maybe a bit boring to hear again, but for me really interesting again if new intake configuration could help to rise low torque at mid range.
The mechanical side of the stepped piston engine design, may have been tested in various forms in the past, but maybe just “Ryger” noticed that with stepped piston configuration it is possible to arrange intake directly through transfers for charge engine. And this is biggest difference from normal scavenging engine, not stepped piston itself. With stepped piston it is just a matter of self-determination which option will choose, normal or directly to transfers.

Can’t talk about max power, because I didn’t know anything about all other things of original Ryger.
With many mistakes on my previous Rygerised NS engine, zero torque at midrange was the biggest downside, not max power, that was somewhere at 30 hp.

In general, due to the con rod small end width / strength, it is very difficult to construct a narrow bottom part of the piston with a diameter of less than 35 mm.
It can be said, that for engines smaller than 100 cc, the only way is to keep a larger piston diameter / difference between the top and bottom, go oversquare.
So its amazing how Aalt Toersent found space for con rod small end on his Rygerised 50 cc.( add photo with red mark showing possibility of extended transfers pockets ).
In other words, more cc, more space for small end and pin. And the area ratio between the upper and lower parts of the piston could be progressively increased while maintaining the required con rod small end strength for bigger piston engines.

Stepped piston lower part take away some working cc from upper piston. In my case with upper 57mm and lower 38mm, stroke 50.6mm, pumping capacity lowered from 129cc to 71,7cc, (Ryger homologated upper 54 mm, lower 36 mm, stroke 54 mm pumping capacity lowered from 125 cc to 68,6 cc)

Add photos that was posted some time ago.

[katinas]

A real pleasure to read this, after so many years. https://www.pressreader.com/uk/class...81565177631393 Tomm Herron just two days before......

I was twelve at the time and after watching the movie, five times, all the school’s math and literature notebooks became catalog of Silver Dream parts, especially the rectangular tachometer…..

Now I think, thanks to Freeman’s poor character, barely put an end to the end, is the reason why Soviet censorship allowed this film to be shown here at the time in 1980.

[WilDun]

WilDun, there has been a lot of talk about Ryger and maybe a bit boring to hear again, but for me really interesting again if new intake configuration could help to rise low torque at mid range.
.................................................. ..........................
Add photos that was posted some time ago.

Thanks, - I dunno why I didn't try to sort it all out in my mind before, but now it's all slowly starting to filter through! - guess there was so much confusion and contradiction at the time and I didn't bother!

[katinas]

Jak-15 with ME 262 engine.
Sound of two stroke RBA/S10 starter from 21.30 to 21.54. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSfmMYsztAw&t=1423s

Again DKW, this time ZW 500 and ZW 600 "Inside the Panzer IV Ausf. A, an auxiliary DKW gasoline engine was provided to power the electric engine that was used to traverse the turret. A round fuel supply opening for the DKW engine, was placed on the rear left of the superstructure roof."

This engine was driving the Leonard-type electricity generator.

Auto Union, DKW-Motor, Typ ZW 500
Type Water cooled
Cylinders 2
Bore and stroke 68.0 x 68.5 mm
Displacement 498 cc
Compression 5.8:1
Max. governed speed 2800 rpm
Net h.p. 12
Length 560 mm
Width 340 mm
Height 510 mm
Weight 60 kg

[WilDun]

WilDun, there has been a lot of talk about Ryger ........................
for me really interesting again if new intake configuration could help to rise low torque at mid range.
.................................................. .......

In general, due to the con rod small end width / strength, it is very difficult to construct a narrow bottom part of the piston with a diameter of less than 35 mm. .................................................. ..........

In other words, more cc, more space for small end and pin. And the area ratio between the upper and lower parts of the piston could be progressively increased while maintaining the required con rod small end strength for bigger piston engines.

Stepped piston lower part take away some working cc from upper piston. In my case with upper 57mm and lower 38mm, stroke 50.6mm, pumping capacity lowered from 129cc to 71,7cc, (Ryger homologated upper 54 mm, lower 36 mm, stroke 54 mm pumping capacity lowered from 125 cc to 68,6 cc)

KATINAS,
In the photos of your "Ryger" type engine (which I seem to have lost), the 'crosshead?/gudgeon pin holder'? appears to be retained by being threaded into the narrow part of the piston?
Am I correct?