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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #29731
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    Thank you gentlemen
    You are unambiguous in your opinion.
    Then Ignitech it is.
    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

  2. #29732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Re hardening the bearing surface in a Ti rod big end: it's not only the hardness that is important.
    It's like walking on ice: no matter how hard the surface is, it also needs to be thick enough, or it will simply crack. Ti rods that do survive, have a steel big end insert.
    A friend of mine, Rico Ronge, developed a nice method of welding steel to titanium. Muhr, in case you're in the Chemnitz area, he lives just around the corner.
    48.5g with inserts is what I can handle, would be awesome to test. Where there some tests done with Aprilia?

    But i'm a coward, should be able to take 5-8g if you have some balls
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    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

  3. #29733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muhr View Post
    Hello
    I am working on another project where I am looking for a tunable ignition system and exhaust valve control unit. have looked at ignitech but have no experience with the valve control unit or its software. Is there anyone who has? Or someone who has experience of any other system?
    Have to agree with the other replies here. The Ignitech is a breeze to use. Wobbly's method of the PV setup (on dyno) is how I do it. Gets you in the ballpark quickly.

    I did have one of the early single cylinder units (for ignition timing) and also the servo control on an NSR150 some years ago, but soon changed it for a DC-CDI-P2 with on board servo control. Neater to look at and faster/easier to mess around with when just dealing with one box.

    Only thing I want to play with on that is to connect both channels to the coil (a la Wobbly's suggestion) and see if more mojo is forthcoming.

  4. #29734
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    .
    When we buy Ignitecs we used pictures to show them exactly what we want. Here are some of the pictures, they maybe helpful.

    At least get a wiring harness with your P2, and maybe 100 each of the 4 parts of the wiring plugs, makes life real easy, cut away any extra wires you don't need. Also for mechanical reliability, solder the plug when you crimp it onto the wire so it wont pull off again. Their ignition pickups are real good too.

    When you do the wiring use off cuts from the wiring harness to splice to the accessories like TPS and Pickup so the color codes at the plugs match.

    A laptop or computer with a RS232 serial port is real handy too.

    DC-CDI-P2 Race, with on board servo control. The DC-CDI takes in 12 Volts DC and internally generates its own high voltage to charge up its CDI.

    We make our own Push and Go 12Volt generators from Lifan after market units. Combined with a Voltage Rectifier Regulator and a 25Volt 2500 uF capacitor you have a decent 12Volt DC generator for the Ignitec.

    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Attachment 329021

    How to make a decent light weight racing 12 Volt generator
    Any PV servo from a RGV250, NSR250, Yamaha R1 etc will work.
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  5. #29735
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    .
    When we buy Ignitecs we used pictures to show them exactly what we want. Here are some of the pictures, they maybe helpful.
    Thank you TZ! It does not always seem as obvious what you need when you're on their website
    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

  6. #29736
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    .
    It has taken a while but I have finally cracked the true Arduino analog output problem my project had, now hopefully my EFI project can move forward, or at least to

    We make our EFI + DC spark ignition compatible with http://tunerstudio.com/index.php/tuner-studio

    So it completely open for experiments



  7. #29737
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    Crank Balancing

    Does anyone know how dynamic crank balancing gets done? I am assuming that if you are not in good balance it will limit your engine to rev at higher rpm

    Do they spin your crank at true engine rpm and have sensors to record where the lateral forces are occurring?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #29738
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    Quote Originally Posted by philou View Post
    In France a 125 is limited to 15 Cv.

    For 125 NSR, the French cylinders are different from the others. English cylinder are better

    Attachment 336775
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt@TYGA View Post
    A great find!
    I found these
    same pic with explanations
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    More to follow
    http://www.nsr125.com/derestrict.htm

    https://www.125ccsportsbikes.com/for...howtopic=77128

    JC22 FOXEYE MODEL
    here were two models of the NSR125; the JC20 produced between 1988 and 1994 and the JC22 Foxeye produced between 1994 and 2001. They are easily distinguished by the headlights. The JC20 had double round headlight, while the JC22 had a "foxeye" headlight hence the nickname.

    Following the success of the NS125 (an earlier model to the NSR), the NSR125 JC20 was designed and assembled by Honda Italia Industriale S.p.A. in Rome, Italy. Grimeca was contracted to produce the aluminium cast frame (2-piece, die-cast, bolt together construction), wheels and brake assemblies. The engine was manufactured by Girardoni with Dell'Orto supplying the carburetor. Marzochi supplied forks and suspension while Pagani provided instrumentation and lighting. The Grimeca rear wheel was 18 inch in diameter, while the front was 17 inch and shod in Pirelli MT-45 tires.

    The NSR125 JC22 is mostly of Japanese manufacturing, with the engine parts and other key elements of the running of the motorbike produced in Japan, it was then assembled in Italy and supplied to its mainly European market. Design changes saw the JC22 to receive a steel fuel tank and visual trim resembling the NR750.
    REGIONAL DIFFERENCES
    HISTORY AND DEVELOPMENT
    While the NSR125 is mostly of Japanese manufacture, with the engine parts and other key elements of the running of the motorbike produced in Japan, t was then assembled in taly and supplied to its mainly !uropean market" #here were 2 models of the bikes the earlier model NS125R& with a 'square' headlight, produced between 1988-94 and the later foxeye' R1 model so named due to its front lights resembling that of a fo.& produced between 1994-2001" Whilst drastic changes were made to the aesthetics of the motorbike 0ery little was changed on the mechanical or engineering side"eventually however, new stricter regulations in the ! began phasing out the 2 stroke motorcycles and the NSR125 ceased production in 2001"lthough it is a common mistake to believe the NSR continued production until 2003" #his is not the case as they ceased production in 2001 but had lefto0er stock until 2003/4

    There is a large problem with Derestricting certain models of the NSR125 and this is mainly dependent on where the bike was manufactured for. To tell the difference you must check your frame number.
    UK
    Frame number: ZDCJC22C******
    Restrictions: Exhaust collar, carb jets, inlet restriction plate
    Required alterations: Upjet, exhaust mod, inlet plate removal
    Optional alterations: Carbon reeds, change sprockets
    Italy
    Frame number: ZDCJC22A******
    This is a full power bike and has no restrictions.
    Optional alterations: Carbon reeds, change sprockets
    France
    Frame number: ZDCJC22B****** - can look like an 8
    Restrictions: Exhaust, Carburetter, CDI unit, RC-Control unit
    Required alterations: Upjet, exhaust mod, inlet plate removal, CDI and PV controller
    Optional alterations: Carbon reeds, change sprockets
    Switzerland
    Frame number: ZDCJC22E******
    Restrictions: so many restrictions that it is nearly impossible to derestrict and cannot even rev past 7500rpm.
    Required alterations: UK or Italian engine, exhaust, loom, CDI and PV controller
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  9. #29739
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    If you don't want to mess with Ti, you could always lighten a steel rod!
    I think Wobbly mentioned these ones and theorised they were a "gas flow" attempt - Rotary valve kart motors.
    I'm pretty sure the later ones had the same shape reliefs each side but with an intact central web.
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  10. #29740
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    Its not necessary to dynamically balance a 2T crank, nor is it really feasible to split the webs, install a dummy mass on the pin and spin it up.
    All that will tell you is the crank is heavy opposite the pin, by the crank balance factor % you have decided upon.
    Static balance with a mass hanging off the rod small end simply works - and if the chosen % causes issues then all that means is that it isnt working with the combination
    of crank induced vertical/lateral engine motion, interacting with the chassis.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  11. #29741
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    Shape optimization

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhr View Post
    48.5g with inserts is what I can handle, would be awesome to test. Where there some tests done with Aprilia?

    But i'm a coward, should be able to take 5-8g if you have some balls
    Novadays exist software tools to make the best shapes

  12. #29742
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbiplane View Post
    Novadays exist software tools to make the best shapes
    Is that something you use? I have something similar

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lyTULzvHhXw
    No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

  13. #29743
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbiplane View Post
    We make our EFI + DC spark ignition compatible with http://tunerstudio.com/index.php/tuner-studio

    So it completely open for experiments


    The EMS and tuning software looks good. The plug looks the same as the Ignitec we use but the pin outs are different.

    I see Alpha-N and Speed Density maps, is there also a Volumetric Efficiency map based on RPM and MAP manifold absolute pressure?

    Speed Density, a "Calculation" of air speed in the throttle body. Does this calculation assume that the air is generally only flowing in one direction like it does on a four stroke. How does it account on a tuned two stroke engine for the large amount of air that often reverses direction and flows back out.

    My current EFI system only supports a Alpha-N (TPS vis RPM)map for two stroke engines. This does not work well below 25% throttle position where the air flow through the engine changes dramatically depending on whether the engine is on the pipe or not.

    Below 25% throttle position because of dramatic changes in air flow there, the Alpha-N map can only be correct for "On the Pipe" or "Off the Pipe" but not both and it is what is holding me back on my 2T EFI project.

    I am interested in your EFI system.

    If it can, how does the Aviamechanica deal with this changeable air flow situation below 25% TP in a two stroke engine?

  14. #29744
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    air is generally only flowing in one direction like it does on a four stroke.
    When I ran the carbs on the twin it had fuel standoff about 200mm out of the carbs at certain revs. Clearly air had changed direction. It went away when the motor was "on the cam".

  15. #29745
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedpro View Post
    When I ran the carbs on the twin it had fuel standoff about 200mm out of the carbs at certain revs. Clearly air had changed direction. It went away when the motor was "on the cam".
    Ecotrons use a MAP sensor in the inlet tract on a 4T but says the MAP sensor becomes confused on a 2T. I wonder if it is because there is only half the time on a 2T for the MAP sensor to settle.

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    This is the EngMod simulated transfer efficiency for my 2T engine, I guess the mass of reversion happens where you see the big dip.

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