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Thread: No Offence Intended

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    In regard to alcohol, the charges are mostly dealt with by summons, not infringement.

    I think the figures are only infringements.
    I'm not sure if that's correct or not, I'm having a hard time finding data to support this. The NZ Police website says:
    "Includes all offences relating to driving under the influence of alcohol and drugs (including offences committed by drivers aged under 20 who breach the zero breath and blood alcohol limit, and those under the new lowered adult alcohol impairment limit, introduced on 1 December 2014)."

    edit: In fact I believe the data is all-inclusive. Dividing the total fine amount for alcohol offences by the number of offences gives an average value around $50 for most periods, indicating that most of the offences aren't fined through an infringement and are in fact referred to court. The NZ Police website says this:

    Fines data
    Includes monetary amounts in $NZD associated with the above listed offences where Police has issued an infringement notice that was processed in the Police infringement processing system at face value - the fees associated with these notices can be paid, unpaid or referred to court (bottom tables).

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner View Post
    I'm not sure if that's correct or not, I'm having a hard time finding data to support this. The NZ Police website says:
    "Includes all offences relating to driving under the influence of alcohol and drugs (including offences committed by drivers aged under 20 who breach the zero breath and blood alcohol limit, and those under the new lowered adult alcohol impairment limit, introduced on 1 December 2014)."

    edit: In fact I believe the data is all-inclusive. Dividing the total fine amount for alcohol offences by the number of offences gives an average value around $50 for most periods, indicating that most of the offences aren't fined through an infringement and are in fact referred to court. The NZ Police website says this:
    There were no alcohol infringements until Dec 2014. Before that all offences went to court. When the mew lower limit was introduced, 250-400 became an infringement, above 400 went to court.

    Hey, I'm on your side here.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    It's a lot of information, but it's valuable. It says a lot about Police priorities.

    If you have the time to trawl it, and the background knowledge to understand it, it tells an interesting tale.
    that's quite different to your take on the proportion of tickets issued for speed and other offences.
    and, quite simply, this looks like 'police are targeting' offences rather than lets get on the raod and ticket all offences.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    that's quite different to your take on the proportion of tickets issued for speed and other offences.
    and, quite simply, this looks like 'police are targeting' offences rather than lets get on the raod and ticket all offences.
    20 cops wrote no speed tickets, and just stuck to red lights, cellphones etc. 200 other cops wrote nothing but speed.

    Then everyone stood back and bagged the Police for focussing too much on speed.

    Leaving the 20 to wonder why they bothered.

    The end.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    Leaving the 20 to wonder why they bothered.
    They can wonder whatever the fuck they want, individual police are paid to do a job. Either the NZ Police are failing to prioritise at a strategic level, or individual police are unaccountable for failing to follow organisational strategy.

    The statistics show a frustratingly myopic view on road safety, focussing almost entirely on speed, despite hearing CONSTANTLY from the public that we're more interested in red light enforcement, booze etc. The police are taking the easy road and there is obviously either a complete lack of direction, or NZ Police are unable to find the right people to fulfil their ranks.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner View Post
    They can wonder whatever the fuck they want, individual police are paid to do a job. Either the NZ Police are failing to prioritise at a strategic level, or individual police are unaccountable for failing to follow organisational strategy.
    As was the issue with the Nazis in WW2.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner View Post
    The statistics show a frustratingly myopic view on road safety, focussing almost entirely on speed, despite hearing CONSTANTLY from the public that we're more interested in red light enforcement, booze etc.
    I almost agree with you on this comment. But as I've previously mentioned, the figures you have presented fail to account for the time spent preventing things. All the hours spent randomly stopping cars looking for EBAs. All the hours freezing your bits off on Booze Bus checkpoints. The figures you quote don't mention a range of other activities Police undertake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner View Post
    The police are taking the easy road and there is obviously either a complete lack of direction, or NZ Police are unable to find the right people to fulfil their ranks.
    A combination of both, probably.

  7. #22
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    More stats albeit via the herald

    3.5% of motorway traffic on the phone.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12068078

    They need to up the fines, although $150 for using a bus lane doesn't seem to work...7 million is a good income stream.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12057697
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

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    The Waikato police had a blitz on cellphone use and seatbelt wearing last week. And to be fair, I see very little speed enforcement in Auckland, although that's probably a pointless exercise now!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner View Post
    They can wonder whatever the fuck they want, individual police are paid to do a job. Either the NZ Police are failing to prioritise at a strategic level, or individual police are unaccountable for failing to follow organisational strategy.

    The statistics show a frustratingly myopic view on road safety, focussing almost entirely on speed, despite hearing CONSTANTLY from the public that we're more interested in red light enforcement, booze etc. The police are taking the easy road and there is obviously either a complete lack of direction, or NZ Police are unable to find the right people to fulfil their ranks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    More stats albeit via the herald

    3.5% of motorway traffic on the phone.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12068078

    They need to up the fines, although $150 for using a bus lane doesn't seem to work...7 million is a good income stream.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12057697


    The fine/demerit system is seriously lacking in relevance. No demerits for red light or seatbelts. $80 for a cellphone ticket. Demerits for not licensing your vehicle.

    Can't see much sense in these things.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post
    The important point quoted from that article is: "Only 15 per cent of the road toll involves speed".
    Therefore according to the charts above, there is a problem in the enforcement methodology when applied to "road safety".
    TOP QUOTE: “The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    The important point quoted from that article is: "Only 15 per cent of the road toll involves speed".
    Therefore according to the charts above, there is a problem in the enforcement methodology when applied to "road safety".
    That 15% relates to speed as a causitive factor. In 15% of crashes speed was identified as a causitive factor.

    In the 85% where speed was not identified as a causitive factor, speed was a determinant factor in the severity of the collision.

    Summarised as "the faster you go the bigger the mess".

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    That 15% relates to speed as a causitive factor. In 15% of crashes speed was identified as a causitive factor.

    In the 85% where speed was not identified as a causitive factor, speed was a determinant factor in the severity of the collision.

    Summarised as "the faster you go the bigger the mess".
    Even so that 15% was "speed" & not "speeding" which is an even lower % (& I know you know the diff just as well as I)
    they don't like quoting "speeding" figures as it really makes the scam visible for what it is

    Personally I don't have a prob with talking on the phone (but not that stupid hold it in front of you thing people seem to be doing), not wearing seatbelts, or "speeding" (within reason)
    talking on the phone to your ear is safer than handsfree & much safer than peoples attempt to hide use. txting can be banned still
    seat-belts, other than children is personal safety & so I couldn't give a shit if you want to injure or kill yourself
    "speeding" as long as it's not excessive is much safer than the speed scam system we have, makes the roads safer & faster.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    The important point quoted from that article is: "Only 15 per cent of the road toll involves speed".
    Therefore according to the charts above, there is a problem in the enforcement methodology when applied to "road safety".
    Good to see you quote the experts on Road Safety
    Road safety analyst Clive Matthew-Wilson said using mobile phones now caused more road deaths than speeding.
    "Only 15 per cent of the road toll involves speed [only]. American studies show 28 per cent of road deaths involve cellphones, so it is a far greater risk," he said.
    How can I get a job stating the bloody obvious....people can't even walk across the road without being glued to their phones.


    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    Even so that 15% was "speed" & not "speeding" which is an even lower % (& I know you know the diff just as well as I)
    they don't like quoting "speeding" figures as it really makes the scam visible for what it is

    Personally I don't have a prob with talking on the phone (but not that stupid hold it in front of you thing people seem to be doing), not wearing seatbelts, or "speeding" (within reason)
    talking on the phone to your ear is safer than handsfree & much safer than peoples attempt to hide use. txting can be banned still
    seat-belts, other than children is personal safety & so I couldn't give a shit if you want to injure or kill yourself
    "speeding" as long as it's not excessive is much safer than the speed scam system we have, makes the roads safer & faster.
    The research on phone use shows that hands free is just as bad as holding it.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
    Summarised as "the faster you go the bigger the mess".
    My brother always used to say "The faster you go the more time they have to clean up the mess" .

    I think that unless the car/bike fails to make a corner due to high speed and goes off the road/into another car or gets pulled out on by someone that didn't see they coming due to their extreme speed then speed is the main factor. The fact that we travel at any speed makes it always a factor though.

    One of the great ironies is "If they were going slower they could have stopped in time". Which when you map out speed over distance makes little sense, if they were going slower they would not have been in that very location to have a car pull out on them. Also is true if they were going faster they may not have been there either. Of course you are better off if you are going to have a prang going slower, but by going slower you may end up in a location where a truck decides to cross the centre line and squish you.
    To sum up if it's your time it's your time.

    I see far more dangerous driving most of the time from people doing under the speed limit than those that go a bit faster, or bang-on as in my case. Unfortunately Policing that is so much harder as unless the cop sees them do the evil dead with their own eyes they aren't able to ticket as easily as getting someone with a radar gun. Case and point was when I went in and complained about a lunatic that overtook on hill, double yellow into an oncoming car and nearly caused a head on if it weren't for me n the other cars reaction.
    Police looked him up, said yup he's local, will go hit him up. They said do you want him done, I said yup dude deserves to lose his license. Waited, waited, called up got told cop was on leave will get back to me soon. Waited some more. Been a year now... Either there is not enough Cops or they just don't care about properly dangerous drivers.

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