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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #26611
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    8th November 2015 - 17:28
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    1991 MZ 301
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    Has the Ryger engine company cheated a lot of investors here?
    Concerning short connecting rods it can be relevant to se another croshead engine type like the worlds biggest and most efficient ships diesels.From memory some conrods are shorter than 3 times halfstroke.
    A lot of simple Honda engines are used for carts that are hired for half an hour by amateurs and tourists.
    If that can be cleaner and more fuel efficient why not?
    One of the reasons for anger was a statement that HCCI can do 30000 rpm .
    This has been proved many times over by model diesel aircraft engines invented by a swiss mechanic 1942.
    So why so angry?

  2. #26612
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    12th March 2010 - 16:56
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    Seems odd that suddenly Ryger is interested in divulging the inner workings of the Ryger engine now? I think it's been realised that it's almost too late, with several Ryger concepts under construction / test now, the information will be out anyway with or without Rygers help. I think they are worried about being yesterday's news.
    Proof is in the winning!

  3. #26613
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    10th February 2005 - 20:25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niels Abildgaard View Post
    Has the Ryger engine company cheated a lot of investors here?

    One of the reasons for anger was a statement that HCCI can do 30000 rpm .
    This has been proved many times over by model diesel aircraft engines invented by a swiss mechanic 1942.
    So why so angry?
    May be true Niels, but "Mr Ryger" himself (or his shadow Luc.) has just stated that he set out to make a cleaner engine. However, that would not fit well with that particular model aircraft engine, it would have been anything but clean!
    Also don't forget that it was probably only able to achieve 30,000 rpm (or whatever) by virtue of it's relatively tiny size!
    So, (in the case of "Mr Ryger's engine) in my opinion, this would render both the 'cleanliness' and 'rpm' arguments invalid - those engines really can't be compared to each other!

    Yes I do agree with others that the proof of the pudding (ie a Ryger in a race!), is in the eating ( ie race results).
    Strokers Galore!

  4. #26614
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    18th July 2015 - 16:21
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    2015 Avanti
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    Norman, You might be onto something with that insight of yours. These simple engines are not really so simple, and the more I look into them, the more I realise that there are areas I have over looked. As to the Ryger who knows. It is obvious it is not just a matter of changing the arrangement and then making a world beating engine. In saying that, even with the patent papers being published, it is still not obvious how it actually works to be making the power that is being claimed. Even those who have embarked on making a copy from ideas gleamed from where ever they can, are not getting the same results as that of the Ryger engine and we have to ask why? It could be as simple as something that we all as a collective that have read the patent have over looked and may be looking on the wrong areas to where it makes it power from.
    Anyway, a good puzzle helps to keep the mind agile.
    Neil

  5. #26615
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    10th February 2005 - 20:25
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    I was thinking about the " too short" rod needed to fit inside the lower piston dia ( too short in most peoples eyes) - does that piston need to be round? why couldn't it be a narrow rectangle shape or maybe a similar shape to the pistons used in the V4 four stroke Honda racer (of the eighties)?
    This acting as a crosshead and leaving plenty of room for a longer rod to be accommodated?
    Sealing of the "gland" could still be achieved - after all, if they could seal Wankel rotors against the combustion forces there, then surely in this case it would be a piece of cake!
    - Or is my line of thought too far outside the "square" ?
    Strokers Galore!

  6. #26616
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    26th April 2013 - 21:55
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    On july 5th one of our members already pointed to the patent pending papers, to this day this is the only information that we have. Here is the link to the documents. (Yes, its legal mumbo jumbo but in the world of patents this is the way to proceed). https://register.epo.org/application...en&tab=doclist
    The patent has not been granted, this could be the reason that the ryger equipe is talking without saying anything.

    The description is on the "abstract" page, 14 pages in total, be sure to print out all pages because page 13 and 14 would be missed otherwise.

    A question for katinas : did you base your experiment on these drawings ? They are out and public since february 2017.

  7. #26617
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    10th April 2013 - 09:59
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    70 hp without being dependent on the pipe? What if there is a second piston under the "dividing plate" on the same conrod? With some reed valve hocus pocus that could provide 2 crank cases with twice the pumping action of a normal 2-stroke.


    Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk

  8. #26618
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    19th June 2011 - 00:29
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    I'm a bit lost : when do you need bigger or smaller diameters for the expansionpipe , and more specific from difuser up to belly ?

    bigger diameters give higher suction pulse ? so am I right in thinking that when less energy is used pushing the piston down, a bigger diameter helps the pipe pull harder, so bigger is needed when :
    lower rpm for max HP ?
    more exhaust port timing ?
    lower compression ratio ?
    lower exhaust temp ?

  9. #26619
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    10th February 2005 - 20:25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman View Post
    Could the Ryger be functioning due to a resonance effect in the intake to transfers to cylinder, set into action by the piston suction and compression?..........
    Am I totally lost in space here?
    It's the "Doodlebug Effect" maybe! but you do have many valid points

    ...... meanwhile the "Great Ryger Debate" rages on ..... all over TZ's little bucket thread (where concrete results are also to be found) - seems like WW2 all over again!
    Strokers Galore!

  10. #26620
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    7th September 2009 - 09:47
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    It's the "Doodlebug Effect" maybe! but you do have many valid points

    ...... meanwhile the "Great Ryger Debate" rages on ..... all over TZ's little bucket thread (where concrete results are also to be found) - seems like WW2 all over again!
    https://www.google.com/search?q=don%...5_Z4tomSUUQHM:

  11. #26621
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    10th February 2005 - 20:25
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    Maybe I shouldn't have described it as a war, that's really got nothing to do with it! - "The Doodlebug effect" was just describing the pulsejet, (as used in the "Doodlebug" flying bomb!).

    But instead of having a raging debate, how about trying to work out some possiblities as to how it actually might work, instead of demanding answers, ie whether it uses resonance or whatever to achieve the results it is reputed to be able to achieve.

    Having said all that though, I don't have the knowledge required to do that, but I believe there are a few guys here capable of doing just that!

    - perhaps they are playing their cards close to their chest!
    Strokers Galore!

  12. #26622
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    We have spent so much time on here trying to work out what could possibly be at work within the Ryger to meet the original claims of 70Hp and 30,000 rpm
    that we all got sick of the whole thing.
    Mainly due to getting no believable info from Harry or Luc.
    Nothing has changed, except the new downward spiral from the original claims - but still, the new reduced claims are still unproven.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  13. #26623
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    5th April 2013 - 13:09
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    zuma50
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    Luc, please answer this about the Ryger.

    Does it use a needle bearing type for the lower rod bearing?

  14. #26624
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    1st May 2016 - 13:54
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    Vintage 2T
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    There are some very knowledgeable people out there that completely disagree with Me, Frits and Jan about the Ex duct cooling principle.
    Roland Holzer in his last iteration of the Modena kart engine made the duct alot shorter, saying that this allowed the pipe ( header,spigot ) to heat up faster
    when exiting corners.
    Franco at TM has a radical new design in CAD that completely insulates the duct from water cooling with an air gap.
    I plan on completely disproving the whole hot duct idea ( or making an idiot of myself ) by very soon having a brand new TM cylinder ceramic coated inside the duct.
    This coating surface will be VERY hot where in contact with the retained air/fuel charge.
    Doing exactly this process on the Britten made a heap of power, and doubled the water boil time when the bike was warmed up ( as the small rad was ducted correctly
    for forward motion,not sitting still ).
    It will have only one of two results on the 2T - 125 , instant detonation due to overheated gas being pushed back into the cylinder, or the engine will make more power due to
    more heat energy being transferred into the pipe.
    Just a very small maybe - would be both effects occur simultaneously. But deto kills engines,so that trumps the other effect every time.
    The dyno will not lie,as will the deto sensor on the head.
    Even if I am wrong I WILL tell everyone the result,as it has caused some very heated ( pun intended ) discussion, with lots of Italian arm waving in the process.
    And of course I would REALLY love to finally prove that The Great Leader was talking out his arse about a hotter duct being better - though he sort of already did that with
    his Chinese funded fiasco.
    With a bit more than an academic interest in exhaust duct cooling, I'm very interested in the potential value of a ceramic coated duct.



    In my simplistic approach to these things, it looks to me the the only real advantage to extensive water-cooling of the transfer duct is to provide thermal stability.
    Thus enabling "careful tuning" to control the point of detonation.

    The Negative to this heavy temperature management is removal of heat/energy from the exhaust pulse and the addition of heat to the charge in the duct.
    Plus the need to dispose of the captured (& wasted) heat/energy.

    As it has been determined, polishing the piston face, allows it to reflect, rather than absorb the heat of combustion.

    It follows (to me) that polishing the duct and header pipe should produce a similar result.
    Allowing hot exhaust to pass through without depositing heat AND allow cool transfer charge to enter and leave without picking up extra heat (Win-Win?)

    Polishing ducts and headers could, perhaps, also be simulated by a process something like this...
    .


    It's smooth & shiny, contains silver and is highly heat reflective.
    It is claimed to reduce the external temperature of headers by around 150C. AND that's After heating the steel tube from the inside.
    So the heat reflection is internal at the steel to coating junction. Heat reflection without the physical conduction could/should be much higher(?)
    .


    Might be just speculation & wishful thinking......or the next Great Step Forward in 2 stroke technology & performance.

    Cheers, Daryl.

  15. #26625
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    4th December 2011 - 22:52
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucf View Post
    15 juli 2017 180 gelezen

    Lateral forces
    The disadvantage of a short conrod, such as the lateral force is rising. Ignoring an offset pistonpin the highest forces for the Aprilia with a 120 mm conrod are at 26° atdc and are about 1796 Nm or 183 kg. For the Ryger with a 90 mm conrod by the same pressure it is 2404 Nm or 245 kg, so 34% higher.

    Special Ryger influences
    In a normal 2 stroke the lubrication is mixed in the fuel and because less lubrication is better for the 2 stroke process, all bearings under the piston are lubricated very minimal. So when the engine has to made maximum power like in a racing engine, the bearings in the conrod has a real short life. This is one of the most important differences with a Ryger were those bearings last much longer. And also the higher lateral forces are much less serious in a Ryger engine due to by far much better lubrication.

    1. Because the crankshaft is rotating in oil and spread out this to the downside of the piston and cylinderwall. The lubricating looks more like a 4 stroke engine.
    2. Beside the Ryger has no tilting effect of the piston, it has been eleminated for almost 100%. That is why the lateral forces are far much better devided over the surface of the upper and downside of the piston.

    End conclusion
    In a Ryger a short conrod is the best solution and is certainly not what is told by the experts ‘ridiculous and totaly impossible’. In fact it is more full the opposite situation. Despite the short conrod, this part will show significantly less wear in a Ryger in comparing with a soon old-fashioned 2 stroke !
    I thought it a good idea to investigate the size of the piston side thrust force (N) in a normal 125cc engine with different conrod lengths. The attached picture shows those forces for a conventional 125cc engine and in each case the power and combustion pressure was the same. I cannot do this for the Ryger as I do not know the pressure history in the combustion chamber:

    Click image for larger version. 

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