Why are so many race bikes non compliant with the numbers rule?

[Grumph]

Transponders have made numbers more or less obsolete when it comes to the MNZ rules relating to legibility.
Bikes such as the R1 and gizzer dont have the real estate to fit legal sized numbers.]

While that is true as far as lapscoring goes, the game isn't just for the participants. The paying public have the right to know who's doing what on track.
Greymouth for example, makes sure to have a good commentator. That costs - accomodation and expenses. If he can't do his job it's money wasted.
If he can't tell the spectators who's leading/second/fallen off/being a dick they lose out too. Unhappy spectators don't come back.

Many, many bikes over the years haven't had room for numbers on seats or tail units. Number boards work.

[husaberg]

While that is true as far as lapscoring goes, the game isn't just for the participants. The paying public have the right to know who's doing what on track.
Greymouth for example, makes sure to have a good commentator. That costs - accomodation and expenses. If he can't do his job it's money wasted.
If he can't tell the spectators who's leading/second/fallen off/being a dick they lose out too. Unhappy spectators don't come back.

Many, many bikes over the years haven't had room for numbers on seats or tail units. Number boards work.

i realise that was Jelly's angle and I appreciate that, but the rules were not put in place for spectators or Commentators.
Number boards unless they are period like the classics look Naff.
The most common thing i used to see missed by the scrutineers was the rear MC relying on the circlip as a positive stop.
I got failed on not having a return spring on the rear set pedal of my rear drum braked bike.
I pointed out the return spring was on the drum rod only to be told what if that failed.
I put on a rubber spring off an old inner to be compliant with this ruling. I have later seen this used on GP bikes.
it didnt seem worth starting an argument I resisted the urge to i point out if rear spring broke i would have not rear brake anyway.
My bikes always had a positive stop on the rear in the shape of a L bracket but plenty dont.

10.7 All vehicles must be fitted with an efficient brake on both front and rear
wheels. Any vehicle using a hydraulic type brake master cylinder must
have a brake pedal return stop fitted so that the brake pedal linkage does
not depend on the cylinder circlip to act as a stop.

[WALRUS]

Moto GP bies dont even have rear numbers now hence the tiny tails so fashionable atm

You can still number up the side of the machine if there isn't enough space on the back, can you not?



Correct me if I'm wrong but the rule is about having a number clearly visible from the front and each side left and right. It doesn't specify it has to be on the tail, does it?

[nodrog:Me]

Doesn't every rider get a new copy of the rule book every year when they renew their license?

No.

___________

[husaberg]

You can still number up the side of the machine if there isn't enough space on the back, can you not?



Correct me if I'm wrong but the rule is about having a number clearly visible from the front and each side left and right. It doesn't specify it has to be on the tail, does it?

Yip but he only has a single rather then triple digit put it has to be visible with the rider in position.

Sides: One either side of the motorcycle in a position clearly visible when the rider (and passenger for sidecars) is seated in their usual riding position

that one would fail also on the size of the number board

Size: Minimum width 285mm, minimum height 235mm,

plus the letters are not bold....

[malcy25]

My 2 cents worth

Rule book is online - hard copies can be bought but is a pain in the arse, people don't update, carry an old book, don't carry it etc. Online is good. But people actually need to read it. I see stuff across many classes, when people are spending $1000's and don't even read their specific technical rules.....

I did a rule change submission years ago now (early 2000's I think) that freed the need for the side numbers to be behind the rider, to anywhere on the side of the bike, as long as they visible with the rider seated. Since that time real estate has shrunk considerably and the rules have been modded again a couple of times, but not the size.

A few years ago SOME classes IIRC allowed within the their appendix, a single number on the top of the seat unit and one on the front. But only a handful. This allowance seemed to disappear last year. Being a good boy, before I headed off the for the SI Nationals rounds last year, I sat down and checked a few things and found these appendix levels rules had gone, meaning we were back to three numbers. (and my bike was not compliant).

So I cut a sheet of contact out to the "regulation size" and sat next to my bike.....this is how big it is see the old Ninja below. Massive....arguably, the rule could be amended to make sure they are smaller and more consistent with machinery - BUT still need to be clear and legible as flaggies and other officials still need to see them, irrespective of transponders.

I saw quite a few hashed up quick fixes at the nats....that were almost unreadable through the NZSBK series....none were within the size ruies.....

[husaberg]

My 2 cents worth

Rule book is online - hard copies can be bought but is a pain in the arse, people don't update, carry an old book, don't carry it etc. Online is good. But people actually need to read it. I see stuff across many classes, when people are spending $1000's and don't even read their specific technical rules.....

I did a rule change submission years ago now (early 2000's I think) that freed the need for the side numbers to be behind the rider, to anywhere on the side of the bike, as long as they visible with the rider seated. Since that time real estate has shrunk considerably and the rules have been modded again a couple of times.

A few years ago SOME classes IIRC allowed within the their appendix, a single number on the top of the seat unit and one on the front. But only a handful. This allowance seemed to disappear last year. Being a good boy, before I headed off the for the SI Nationals rounds last year, I sat down and checked a few things and found these appendix levels rules had gone, meaning we were back to three numbers. (and my bike was not compliant).

So I cut a sheet of contact out to the "regulation size" and sat next to my bike.....this is how big it is see the old Ninja below. Massive....arguably, the rule could be amended to make sure they are smaller and more consistent with machinery - BUT still need to be clear and legible as flaggies and other officials still need to see them, irrespective of transponders.

I saw quite a few hashed up quick fixes at the nats....that were almost unreadable through the NZSBK series....none were within the size ruies.....

Not nit picking
But would not even that front number fail the letter of the law as written as its more than 30 degrees from Vertical? it looks 45 degrees

Front: Facing forwards, with not more than 30 degrees forwards from vertical.

I wondered when the rearward of the rider seated was removed. thanks for that....

[malcy25]

Not nit picking
But would not even that front number fail the letter of the law as written as its more than 30 degrees from Vertical? it looks 45 degrees

Incorrect!

The rule says not more than 30 degrees FORWARD of vertical......it's BACK from vertical and there is NO BACK angle limit.....

(thou sizewise, it is too small....)

[husaberg]

Incorrect!

The rule says not more than 30 degrees FORWARD of vertical......it's BACK from vertical and there is NO BACK angle limit.....

Cheers i missed that....Typical MNZ only half a rule.
I used to make my front number boards out of 5 or 25 litre plastic oil or chemical containers as they had a wrap arround curve for the forks came in the right colours as well no good for a fairing.
sides were always on contact with a clear clover if i was feeling extravagant.

[malcy25]

Cheers i missed that....Typical MNZ only half a rule.

No, I think it works. Many modern bikes the front may be constructed in a way, where it bodywork may be more than 30 degrees rearward, yet the numbers could be still be very readable. Where as 30 degrees forward could be very unreadable as they are facing the ground.

[jellywrestler]

Moto GP bikes dont even have rear numbers now hence the tiny tails so fashionable atm

Moto GP is a different animal, people don't pop in to watch one race every year or so, they tune in week in week out. They have big screens and branding for sale so you have or recognise colours/your favourite bike, multiple split lap timing systems, zoom in cameras etc etc.




What we have here is 3800 people last year who purchased a program for the suzuki series to help them enjoy their day at the races, and people that don't think they, their sponsors customers and families in some cases, deserve to recognise whose who, and who the commentators are talking about.

[jellywrestler]

i realise that was Jelly's angle and I appreciate that, but the rules were not put in place for spectators or Commentators.

can you eleborate please?, if transponders are the be all and end all then why do they even bother with numbers at all?

[jellywrestler]

Yip but he only has a single rather then triple digit put it has to be visible with the rider in position.

we don't need triple digits in this country, there's not enough bikes in any single class to require them, either or, there's no shortage of real estate to put numbers on this bike

[jellywrestler]

Transponders have made numbers more or less obsolete when it comes to the MNZ rules relating to legibility.
Bikes such as the R1 and gizzer dont have the real estate to fit legal sized numbers.

all of these models have the room to put legal size numbers on them, remember that they are running catchtray belly pans, they may not be able to have rulebook perfect background panels but I do think the Rideby Clause takes care of that, and common sense.
I'll put my hand up to say that it's pretty hard on a number of models to get every detail of the rule on all bikes, but is that any reason to ditch every thing into the 'it's too hard basket'? or the logic of a twelve year old?

if the flaggies turned up with mismatching, undersize, varying coloured flags for the riders to adhere to there'd be a hell of a stink wouldn't there?

[scott411]

can you eleborate please?, if transponders are the be all and end all then why do they even bother with numbers at all?

transponders only do the lap scoring, if a bike i leaking fluids on the other side of the track how is a corner worker ment to identify the bike to tell the officals to black flag him,

also, the transponder only updates at the finish line, riders change positions more often than that, so the commentator needs to be able to tell whos who,