NOT GOOD, Worst deaths in 19 years

[swbarnett]

Most likely spot on . There are lots of other riders though who could improve their skills and reduce risk. SW Barnett mentioned not knowing what you don't know. I was definitely in this category and it wasn't until I had an assessment by Philip McDaid from Riderskills against UK Police Roadcraft measurable criteria that it was brought home pretty dramatically just how much scope there was for improvement. Six years down the track, I'd like to think I'm a much better rider than I used to be and the other important benefit is that I enjoy riding so much more.

Agreed. Although, no matter how much training you get, it's important to remember that you will never know what you still don't know.

[swbarnett]

Maybe crusiers should be banned from NZ roads ...

Once you've started, why stop there?

[onearmedbandit]

Regarding training, I'm an advocate of it. My father made me do a defensive driving course when I got my license back when I was 15yrs old, best thing he ever did for me. Situational awareness and hazard detection are two of the things that stood out to me and that I still employ today. Amazes me that this sort of training isn't compulsory.

[onearmedbandit]

If you have to ride with so much fear of coming to grief is it not time to give up riding? Do people climb mountains with a fear of coming to grief?

Huh? How did you get that from what I posted? Seriously. Where did I mention anything to do with fear? Are you suggesting that being aware of your surroundings and detecting potential hazards are bad form?

[Moi]

My feeling is that a biker's rear is not generally considered a problem so it's not something an "observation influenced" biker will think of. If anything the incidence of rear-ending may be higher while being observed because speeds may be lower.

I wonder if I've misunderstood Table 4.

I took from what was presented in that table to mean that the biker hit the rear of the other vehicle. My reason for thinking that is that other categories are labelled "other vehicle" which implies, to me, that the first category - "rear end, striking" - means the bike struck another vehicle.

[nzspokes]

All the time riding looking for potential things that could go wrong does give me the impressing you ride in fear. My level of alertness for danger varies depending on where I am but if fear was to kick in as soon as I got out the gate I would give up riding.

Which again is where you are completely wrong.

He more I go through the process, the calmer the riding feels.

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[caspernz]

My feeling is that a biker's rear is not generally cosidered a problem so it's not something an "observation influenced" biker will think of. If anything the incidence of rear-ending may be higher while being observed because speeds may be lower.

A bikers' rear may be a problem in stop/start traffic or stationary at a junction. That's where rearward observation combined with an escape path comes into it.

Agreed. However, when said conditions are hidden by water, sun etc. they can still be a problem.

Constantly adapting to conditions is the mark of a skilled rider though isn't it? A bit of anticipation reduces the element of surprise to a degree.

Good post. thanks for that insight.

The Latest HOG magazine has a good two page article headlined, "The Great Escape" has some awesome advice and various strategies for riders and us so called MLC (My Life Changed riders) because my kids are all grown up, my mortgage is paid, I have some spare coin and have more spare time.

Funny you say that, for in some ways I could see myself as a returning rider, having had a few years away from a bike. My own initiative saw me upskilling and I view the learning process as a never ending one.

Dumb question, but for newbies, how do we learn to catch the wee step out or unexpected lock up safely?

Dirt bike exposure helps. As a rule of thumb, remove the force causing the step or the slide and stay loose on the bars.

It's all very well to argue about statistics and pinpointing root causes but I reckon that it's a bit more straightforward than that. Several of the posters have mentioned seeing poor skills displayed by riders on a regular basis. Bringing it even closer to home, how many have actually taken road-based training courses to get rid of those bad habits which inevitably creep in? How many make a point of upskilling periodically to stop the inevitable slide in skills?

What I'm trying to say that there's a lot we can all do as individuals to reduce personal risk and the motorcycle road toll without blaming cagers, statisticians and god knows who else. The biggest hurdle is actually getting off your arse and doing something about it. Most of it comes down to personal responsibility.

This will be where ego comes into the equation, I've been thru this stage myself. Saying to myself I've got lots of experience, so why should I have my own skills weighed and measured? Sure glad I did though, for there is quite a bit to finesse if one can put the "I already know it all" attitude aside...

Most likely spot on . There are lots of other riders though who could improve their skills and reduce risk. SW Barnett mentioned not knowing what you don't know. I was definitely in this category and it wasn't until I had an assessment by Philip McDaid from Riderskills against UK Police Roadcraft measurable criteria that it was brought home pretty dramatically just how much scope there was for improvement. Six years down the track, I'd like to think I'm a much better rider than I used to be and the other important benefit is that I enjoy riding so much more.

Yeah well, we've both gone down this path and while it's a learning curve, it also adds to the enjoyment of riding. Sounds counter-intuitive to a non believer I accept, but seeing I was once a non believer...

Maybe crusiers should be banned from NZ roads due to their inability to handle tight NZ bends. Sports bikes are not the safest either as the crouched down riding position reduces periferal vision. The most dangerous observation I notice on weekends is the number of group riders making multi vehicle overtakes in an effort to "keep up" There was a death on the Rumitukas a year or so ago from a guy doing an overtake and it was reported in the media his mates said he was a "Good Rider" and a guy posted on here a few years back that all his mates who were better than him were now in the cemetery. He is the better rider in my opinion.

The type of bike isn't the problem. I've seen cruiser type bike riders run rings around so-called sports bike riders, the difference is the skill of the rider. Couple that with using a bike within its operating envelope and there's no reason why we can't have a big Harley safely making its way around the twisties as safely as a sports bike, so what if the Harley is a bit slower? As for the crouched down riding position being an issue, well it might be if you choose to only look about 20 yards ahead of yourself, but I've had various kinds if bike, now on a Hayabusa and the riding position doesn't inhibit forward observation...

If you have to ride with so much fear of coming to grief is it not time to give up riding? Do people climb mountains with a fear of coming to grief?

Just from a personal perspective, I'm not afraid of coming to grief anytime I venture out on two wheels, but I do take all care and responsibility to make sure my journey is safe.

[onearmedbandit]

All the time riding looking for potential things that could go wrong does give me the impressing you ride in fear. My level of alertness for danger varies depending on where I am but if fear was to kick in as soon as I got out the gate I would give up riding.

I think you assume far too much. Being aware of ones surroundings does not mean being in fear. When did I state that I'm spending 'all my time' looking for potential things to go wrong? Where did I say anything about fear? It's a pity that you can only seemingly see things in extreme.

Your arrogance quite frankly devalues from any message you are trying to convey. Stop to think why you've become such a target here when others who have had similar messages haven't.

[WristTwister]

I think you assume far too much. Being aware of ones surroundings does not mean being in fear. When did I state that I'm spending 'all my time' looking for potential things to go wrong? Where did I say anything about fear? It's a pity that you can only seemingly see things in extreme.

Your arrogance quite frankly devalues from any message you are trying to convey. Stop to think why you've become such a target here when others who have had similar messages haven't.

Defensive driving and being aware of your surroundings isn't fear. Anyone who says otherwise is clearly not understanding what situational awareness means.

[onearmedbandit]

What you said gave me the impression you were fearful whenever you got on you bike which would be the reason why most give up riding sooner or later.

Then you need to reevaluate how you perceive what you read, because you have no, let me repeat, no, understanding of what I'm saying. Just because you assume something that does not make it true. Please stop assuming you know what goes on in other peoples heads, because you quite clearly have no idea and arrive at stupid, borderline insane, conclusions.

Just because a few posters like yourself disagree with my views it does not mean all readers do though. I often wonder why those who do not like my posts waste their time responding.

Because of the outlandish assumptions you make. You suggested in your response to my 'training' post that being aware of your surroundings and aware of hazards was a bad thing. Seriously? I'm certain you are not advocating riding without being aware, but you can't seem to find any middle ground.

[Ocean1]

You suggest that we ride, or for that matter - drive, to the conditions....

Which would certainly be some sort of silver bullet.

If the fucking conditions didn't change from perfect to fucked in two meters with zero warning.

Booby traps don't cause all of the "carnage", but they sure don't help.

[Ocean1]

Comparing just the deaths is misleading. There are a hell of a lot more people in and out of the water every year.

I agree it is something that more could be done about from what I've heard (from an ex Olympian turned swim coach customer), although when I was at school water safety was covered excellently for both ocean (primary) and rivers (high school).

When you were at school may have been before they closed all of the school pools because they were dangerous.

And strangely enough adult drownings have climbed ever since...

[Ocean1]

Well 13 off road bikes including a couple of quads, one moped and the rest were all road bikes. Harleys made up 13 of them, five Suzuki, four Yam, three each of BMW, Buell, Ducati, Honda and Triumph and then two Kawasakis. Seeing as you asked.

So exactly half of them weren't actually road bikes...

[Berries]

I only just managed to stop myself going there.

[Ocean1]

I only just managed to stop myself going there.

To be more fair than may be necessary most of the related riding isn't on what can strictly be called roads.

So we're back to dirt bikes.