ESE's works engine tuner

[jamathi]

i think you replied to the wrong person Jan.
I agree totally though, hence the Trump reference.

Sorry for my mistake Husaberg....

[wobbly]

I still dont get it at all - every track has a timing system.
If the Ryger was fast you would have to believe the very first thing to happen was a screen shot of the fastest lap to be posted online,even
if only to tell all of us here to " shut the fuck up ".
But no,the fast laps against a TM are about as proven as the bullshit dyno printouts.

[Greg85]

I still dont get it at all - every track has a timing system.
If the Ryger was fast you would have to believe the very first thing to happen was a screen shot of the fastest lap to be posted online,even
if only to tell all of us here to " shut the fuck up ".
But no,the fast laps against a TM are about as proven as the bullshit dyno printouts.

wobbly as i said lucf to the previous post if its engine would be performing is faster than the best current engine (tmkz10c) at present time there would be engines rygers at the world cup kz wackersdorf ...

[peewee]

was surprised how heavy this stuff is when I lifted the container. about 1.13kg for every 1L / 9.5lb per 1gal

[jamathi]

I still dont get it at all - every track has a timing system.
If the Ryger was fast you would have to believe the very first thing to happen was a screen shot of the fastest lap to be posted online,even
if only to tell all of us here to " shut the fuck up ".
But no,the fast laps against a TM are about as proven as the bullshit dyno printouts.

I am curious how it will sell.
At about 2000 Euro MORE than a TM.....
But now finally it lasts for more than 1.5 minutes.
The fantastic result of 2 years of development!!!
How can they be happy at being ONLY 2.5 seconds slower than a TM?

[peewee]

Some years ago, we tried to make a full tuned pipe engine for model boats that was to use a fuel with a minimum of 50% nitromethane. The supplied test engine did not use a proper full pipe , while it did make really good power, we could get as much power with a full pipe and 10% nitro fuel on the supplied engine. I built one up to run the 50% nitro. When it was close to running right, produced too much heat and melted holes in the piston every time or collapsed the crown. These were glow engines. My conclusion was with the heat being generated that the piston was not capable of dissipating that energy to the liner walls. It was water cooled head only. The bottom of the case was cold, but the area around the transfer ports was warmer than normal. For the very short time that it ran, the power output was very substantial. It was increase in power in the order of 30% with the 50% fuel over the 10% fuel. If the engine only needed to run for less than 6 seconds it will be great like a scale drag race car. We just tested with propellers and the power increase in general is the 3 of the rpm change.

were you mixing by volume or weight ? since this is my first time messing with nitro i been doing as much research as i can. from what ive read, if you mix say 20% volume its likely to really be more like 25% by weight. must have something to do with the differences in specific gravity i guess.

tonight i removed the bowl to see what float valve ive got. its 3.3mm main inlet hole with three 1mm secondary inlet holes. combined with the oversized float bowl it was sufficient on methanol. i talked to lectron about it and theyre sending me a different one with 6 secondary inlets just to be on the safe side.

the rest ill just learn as i go. ive got #10 plug installed. the spark curve i have no idea what it looks like so ill adjust it in small increments as needed. kind of sucks when you dont have a dyno to see whats really happening

[husaberg]

I am curious how it will sell.
At about 2000 Euro MORE than a TM.....
But now finally it lasts for more than 1.5 minutes.
The fantastic result of 2 years of development!!!
How can they be happy at being ONLY 2.5 seconds slower than a TM?

I muse that with such a small "crankcase" that to produce effective TM beating power it would have to rev to 30000RPM
Maybe this is the source of the RYGER tales of massive rev potential and HP someone plugged the figures into a sim software and never considered that this might not be feasible in reality.
Maybe the Ryger at one time did at one stage beat a tm around a track by a couple of seconds. You never know it might have been a pro driver with a Ryger against a rank amateur on his first drive on a tm.
It may end up with Ryger team claiming that due to its reduced pollution potential of the Ryger they should have a handicap much like 4ts enjoyed in motogp and MX.

[TZ350]

Well I got to try my new nicely ported NSR cylinder. The workmanship of the last porting effort was a bit disappointing and I was not convinced by the results. Disappointingly my first effort only made 31hp. 31 is that as good as it was going to get or was it being held back by poor workmanship???? I was hoping for more than 31 on the new cylinder.



The good news is that today's tests confirmed that for off pipe slow speed fueling, under piston injection gives much better results and was noticeably better than crankcase injection.

I'm also very interested to hear more of your findings in your NSR250 porting. You actually lost power by opening up the ears of the exhaust port?

On my second attempt. I was very happy with my workmanship opening the ears up on this new ported cylinder to make it look more like a RS cylinder. But after hours of work on the dyno getting the PV right and ignition and fueling spot on it also did not make more than 31hp, Red line.

Inlet is 240 duration and both cylinders ported and std are 200 Ex duration and 132 Transfer duration.

The Blue line is a standard NSR cylinder with its droopy down exhaust port and the modified one, Red line had the top of the exhaust port leveled off for more blowdown time area. At this point I think the standard cylinder would give better on track results.

You're either transfer limited, or major short circuit going on A transfers to export. You may find it beneficial to "bowl" out ex port right after window.

I will take your advice about "bowling" out the exhaust port. Also what you say about the short circuiting from the "A"s now that the cylinders have been ported makes sense. Engmod tells me that the transfers have enough transfer time area.

A Honda RS125 makes 40-43 hp. Because both my ported cylinders topped out at 31hp I suspect a common link and think that it might be that the exhaust nozzle I am using is going sonic and choking. I will look here first because that is easiest.

Jonny if you have been working with NSR cylinders I would love to know more about what you have tried and the results.

[peewee]

Well I got to try my new nicely ported NSR cylinder. The workmanship of the last porting effort was a bit disappointing and I was not convinced by the results. Disappointingly my first effort only made 31hp. 31 is that as good as it was going to get or was it being held back by poor workmanship???? I was hoping for more than 31 on the new cylinder.



The good news is that today's tests confirmed that for off pipe slow speed fueling, under piston injection gives much better results and was noticeably better than crankcase injection.




I was very happy with my workmanship opening the ears up on my new ported cylinder to make it look more like a RS cylinder. But after hours of work on the dyno getting the PV right and ignition and fueling spot on it also did not make more than 31hp, Red line. The Blue line is a standard NSR cylinder. At this point I think the standard cylinder would give better results.





I will take your advice about "bowling" out the exhaust port. I also suspect that the exhaust nozzle is going sonic and choking.

Jonny if you have been working with NSR cylinders I would love to know more about what you have done and the results.

sounds like your bridged exh is doing far better than mine. made it about 10min and the rings were chewed up on the front side . roof must of been too flat and wide I suppose. about the bowling, there was a ase paper about it around here somewhere

[Frits Overmars]

You may find it beneficial to "bowl" out ex port right after window.

Is this what you call 'bowling' Jonny?

[Lightbulb]

were you mixing by volume or weight ? since this is my first time messing with nitro i been doing as much research as i can. from what ive read, if you mix say 20% volume its likely to really be more like 25% by weight. must have something to do with the differences in specific gravity i guess.

tonight i removed the bowl to see what float valve ive got. its 3.3mm main inlet hole with three 1mm secondary inlet holes. combined with the oversized float bowl it was sufficient on methanol. i talked to lectron about it and theyre sending me a different one with 6 secondary inlets just to be on the safe side.

the rest ill just learn as i go. ive got #10 plug installed. the spark curve i have no idea what it looks like so ill adjust it in small increments as needed. kind of sucks when you dont have a dyno to see whats really happening

With fuels for model plane engines, and I guess it is the same with the boats and cars, the fuel is mixed by volume. When the nitro content gets higher than 40% they generally run just synthetic oils only as the castor seem to want to seperate out with 50% nitro or higher. I have heard of people adding some acetone to the fuelt to aid in the fuel staying as a nice mix for longer. When the Nitro is higher than 40 % they also increase the compression ratio. Gets confusing, as with glow plug engines, the compression sets the timing. More advance is a smaller total head volume, more retarded is a higher head volume. So effectively with the higher nitro, they increase the compression to get it to fire earlier or start burning more before TDC. Lohring may be able to shed more light on running higher than 20 to 25% nitro fuels for you.
Neil

[lohring]

We mix by volume as well. The larger engines (15 cc) run fine on 50% nitro, but the smaller the engine, the higher the nitro for good power. 3.5 cc engines often run 66% while I normally run 60% on 7.5 cc engines. I've seen 80% nitro used for record runs. Castor oil won't mix at over around 35% nitromethane so nitrobenzene was used in race engines in my youth. It gave a shoe polish smell to the exhaust. It also causes cancer so is out of favor these days. When the oil percentage is below 18%, I sometimes add a little castor oil (2 oz per gallon) and it mixes fine with the synthetic oil and nitro. A very few people add propylene oxide at the race for record runs, but it isn't common.

As was mentioned, glow engines compression determines the ignition timing. When a combustion chamber volume is set for a particular fuel, changing nitro may actually hinder power. Nitro is an easy way to add torque, but everything needs to be adjusted for the amount. Straight methanol and low nitro classes get power by adding rpm. In one case at a record trial a racer offered us some 80% nitro to run in our boat. it was actually slower than the setup we were running on 60%. We needed to run a bigger prop to take advantage of the increased torque. We also probably needed to play with the pipe length and combustion chamber volume. As with ignition engines, just changing fuel doesn't help by itself.

Lohring Miller

[Frits Overmars]

with glow plug engines, the compression sets the timing. More advance is a higher total head volume, more retarded is a smaller head volume.

So it is true that down-under everything works in reverse. Or have you been smoking funny cigarettes Neil?

[Lightbulb]

So it is true that down-under everything works in reverse. Or have you been smoking funny cigarettes Neil?

Yeah I got that round the wrong way lol. For some reason I was thinking that closer to tdc the more advance it was. But that's wrong. Closer to TDC is retarded. Ill try and correct and edit my post for future reference.

[lodgernz]

My 50 has a very sharp crackle that no muffler is able to quieten. Everyone comments on it, although the bike still registers an acceptable dB reading on the track.

The engine turns out 11.8HP at the wheel at 13,000RPM and the nozzle has a 14.75mm throat. The tailpipe is 19mm ID.

Is it possible that my de Laval nozzle is forcing the exhaust gases to supersonic speed at the outlet? Any other suggestions?