Tragic death leads to change in 999 (emergency) procedures

[Bob]

Wondering how NZ emergency services handle 'biker accident' situations. As you will see from the following, a tragedy happened as procedure was not right for the task:

UK: South Central Ambulance Service is to change how 999 calls for motorbike accidents are handled, following the death of a young motorcyclist.

Guy Evans, 17, died in 2008 following an accident. When his friends called 999, the operator did not tell them to attempt first aid or check whether he was breathing, instead querying whether there was a chemical spillage from the bike.

An inquest concluded that Evans probably suffered from Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, causing his heart to stop. However it has been admitted that errors were made in the way the call was handled. Emergency operators across the South Central region will now be trained to ensure callers check whether motorbike crash victims are breathing.

Evans mother, Beth Chesney-Evans said “I’ve accepted there would have only been a slim chance of resuscitating Guy, but there was a window of opportunity of three or four minutes.” She added “These changes are very significant, and I hope they will save other peoples’ lives. If his death has helped make the system better for other people, then that’s a tribute to him and a comfort for us. I’m grateful to the ambulance service that they were willing to listen and learn.”

The ambulance service is service is pressing the International Academy of Medical Priority Dispatch to review the medical guidance given to call-handlers. Ambulance service spokesman Alison Brumfitt said: “We’re grateful for anything that makes us more aware of the circumstances of accidents and make changes as a result.”

Do your emergency service operators ask if the rider is breathing? If not, might be worth passing this on and asking for action to be taken.

[Toot Toot]

Do your emergency service operators ask if the rider is breathing? If not, might be worth passing this on and asking for action to be taken.

Yes, it is one of the first questions asked after "What is the exact address of your emergency?"

[CookMySock]

Yes, it is one of the first questions asked after "What is the exact address of your emergency?"That is interesting.

Would the emergency service operator attempt to coach the caller through some resuscitation procedure ?

Steve

[ready4whatever]

Reminds me of when my dads mate got hit off her bicycle and killed just outside of kawerau. the guy jumped out of his car and picked the debree up off the road before attending her

[Ixion]

That is interesting.

Would the emergency service operator attempt to coach the caller through some resuscitation procedure ?

Steve

The London Ambulance Service emergency operators will attempt to talk a caller through CPR if they think the attempt worthwhile . Dunno about NZ, probably not.

But EVERY biker should know basic CPR. No excuses. Learn it . Stat.

[Toot Toot]

That is interesting.

Would the emergency service operator attempt to coach the caller through some resuscitation procedure ?

Steve

Yes they do and will coach the caller throughout untill an ambulance arrives if they want.

[CookMySock]

But EVERY biker should know basic CPR. No excuses. Learn it . Stat.Agreed. Did mine 20 years ago.

Add to that, basic emergency communication skills - useful on radio or cellphone. (Do a coastguard radio course.) I have AR/AREC, FRTO, Marine VHF.

Steve

[Badjelly]

...As you will see from the following...

Sorry to nitpick on a serious matter like this, but I can't see anything 'cos it's light blue text on my light grey background.

I'm thinking perhaps you're using the Dark Universe theme? I'm not.

[firefighter]

Dunno about NZ, probably not.

I'm not interested in getting into an argument, just have to ask why you assumed 'probably not'? How did you get the impression of incompetence in regards to our 111 operators? Media?

I couldn't fathom them being as stupid as the earlier mentioned UK operator, never in my experience anyway....

[firefighter]

Agreed. Did mine 20 years ago.

Steve

Maybe it's time for a re-fresher then!

It's changed a few million times since then!

[CookMySock]

Maybe it's time for a re-fresher then! It's changed a few million times since then!Fairy nuff.

I'm sure the basic principles still apply, unless someone discovered its better to blow in their arse instead of the usual airway. :crazy:

Steve

[firefighter]

Fairy nuff.

I'm sure the basic principles still apply, unless someone discovered its better to blow in their arse instead of the usual airway. :crazy:

Steve

Lol, this wouldn't surprise me!

Definately re-do it though there's a lot to forget.

On my annual refresher theres always so much you've forgotten and a heap of great new ideas. (obviously it's a bit more advanced than your typical basic first aid course but ya get my drift)

[Gremlin]

...after "What is the exact address of your emergency?"
Been meaning to ask ya, but haven't seen you for a while...

If I gave GPS co-ordinates, would the centre be able to use them, or is it still down to number and road name?

[Toot Toot]

Been meaning to ask ya, but haven't seen you for a while...

If I gave GPS co-ordinates, would the centre be able to use them, or is it still down to number and road name?

Yes, GPS co-ordinates work. In fact they are more useful to a helicopter response than 1242 SH22 Pukekwawa.

[quickbuck]

Lol, this wouldn't surprise me!

Definately re-do it though there's a lot to forget.

On my annual refresher theres always so much you've forgotten and a heap of great new ideas. (obviously it's a bit more advanced than your typical basic first aid course but ya get my drift)

A bit of a thread dredge here.....

But, yes, I was surprised to see how the CPR has indeed changed recently....

It has been simplified somewhat over the 20 odd years I have been trained to carry it out.

Basic first aid should be something EVERYBODY learns.....
You just never know....

[Bob]

As you guys have taken the CPR course recently, unless it is already up somewhere, any chance of putting something together on it?

I took a CPR course a few years ago - and from what you're saying, it has changed and simplified... so let everyone know what to do! If there are any charts or pictures that are available (without copyright) that can be put on Kiwi Biker, then please include them.

If something can be put together, then it would be good to have as a sticky post on here. You never know, someone reading the post may well get enough from it to make the difference.

If you do put something together, please PM me, so I can make sure I don't miss it. I'll be more than happy to help put it all together if you want me to - this is a very worthwhile thing to do, so happy to assist.

Thanks,

Bob

[Toot Toot]

As you guys have taken the CPR course recently, unless it is already up somewhere, any chance of putting something together on it?

I took a CPR course a few years ago - and from what you're saying, it has changed and simplified...

30:2 Thats it.

30 compressions to two breaths for EVERYONE, adults, children, infants.

That is from the European Resuscitation Council and is procedure in most western World Ambulance services.

[quickbuck]

30:2 Thats it.

30 compressions to two breaths for EVERYONE, adults, children, infants.

That is from the European Resuscitation Council and is procedure in most western World Ambulance services.

Umm, and to add, as soon as you give the patient the two full breaths, you do the chest compressions...
Apparently if a patient is not breathing, their heart has stopped too... or very soon will.
So, no point looking for a pulse.... that is almost impossible to find!

Now, if I am wrong here, please let me know, and I will go and do remedial CPR training....

[kaz]

Reminds me of when my dads mate got hit off her bicycle and killed just outside of kawerau. the guy jumped out of his car and picked the debree up off the road before attending her

Sorry to hear about your Dad's mate. I wasn't there of course but it is possible that the person who stopped was trying to ensure that there were no more accidents to add to the first - like if someone else drove into the debris and crashed or made the original accident worse or hurt the person who stopped.

On first aid courses, you are taught to enter an accident scene only if your safety is assured and it doesn;'t cause more accidents.

I hope this was the case in your example anyway!

[paddy]

...it is possible that the person who stopped was trying to ensure that there were no more accidents to add to the first - like if someone else drove into the debris and crashed or made the original accident worse or hurt the person who stopped...

I doubt the driver was "thinking" anything much. People do all sorts of odd things when they are all keyed up on adrenaline. To someone with little or no training the prospect of approaching an treating a "downed" motorcyclist would be a daunting one. I could imagine how when you are not thinking straight, that debris might suddenly seem really quite important.

[paddy]

Umm, and to add, as soon as you give the patient the two full breaths, you do the chest compressions...
Apparently if a patient is not breathing, their heart has stopped too... or very soon will.
So, no point looking for a pulse.... that is almost impossible to find!

Now, if I am wrong here, please let me know, and I will go and do remedial CPR training....

Yes you are right. The current procedure simply begins with "check response/shake and shout". Further pulse checks are omitted.

There has been a reasonable amount of research around pulse checks during resuscitations. You would be surprised at how often a pulse was identified as absent when it was actually present in the comparatively calm and sterile environment of the hospital emergency room. That was with health professionals - I can't remember the citation or the percentages of hand but it was well into the double digits!