Motorcycle accident myths - A public presentation on the facts

**Berries** · 18th May 2010, 23:35

So what are the myths/facts according to the Prof ?

**JMemonic** · 19th May 2010, 05:56

Originally Posted by Berries

So what are the myths/facts according to the Prof ?

I am about to head to work with no net connection so quickly I will say I have asked for a copy of the presentation I can post here for all to see, the good Professor informed us this was part of a much larger paper due to be presented in the USA in a few weeks so that should be available to all however he will try and get something suitable to post.

He pointed out some large discrepancies in the way the sats are presented and gathered, but I must go so I will try and get back to this this afternoon.

There is an excellent post on page 5 about the evening.

**mikeey01** · 19th May 2010, 07:51

Sorry I won't be able to video this as first thought

sorry all.

**Mr Merde** · 19th May 2010, 08:39

Originally Posted by Ixion

I don't have any evidence for this, either, but personal experience suggests it is pretty much so. I ride a variety of bikes. And I vary what I wear. Sometimes it's a black bike, black leather and black helmet. Sometimes a big all white bike, hi-viz jacket (not just a vest) , and white helmet. And all combinations in between, including variously coloured bikes. With and without headlights on. It doesn't really seem to make much difference.

Once, some years ago, my perception was that the hi-viz and headlamp combo did make a signifcant differnce. But it seems to have lost its edge nowadays (I suspect because hi-viz and headlamps are both so common now, it no longer has the WTF is that factor).

In the early 90's over in the UK a there was a survey done with car drivers to investigate this problem

The results were suprising.

Car drivers didnt see bike riders (not unsupprising)

Hi Vis and bright colours aided the rider in being seen as did having the headlight on

and the supprising find was that car drivers noticed riders in black a lot more than was expected.

something to do with the way our brain perceives things and the black colouring giving the inpression of a space or hole where the driver expected to see something.

A case where the absense of something (colour, light) etc triggers a reaction in the subconcious .

**Okey Dokey** · 19th May 2010, 08:42

I heard about half of a feature on national radio about 15 minutes ago that seemed to be covering what the prof said. Comments about ACC needing to look at the prof's figures, and that motorcyclists were not giving up on the levy battle. Some labour MP said he would be taking the figures back to parliament. There was a comment about bikers being only 2% of ACC road accident costs but having to pay more than anyone else except commercial vehicles (paraphrase- may not have that perfect) Perhaps there is something on the radio NZ site if people want to try and listen. Cheers.

**avgas** · 19th May 2010, 09:22

Originally Posted by Katman

Actually, I think I was wrong.

Take 100 motorcycle accidents.

According to the figures above 30 of them will involve no other vehicle.

Of the other 70 accidents that involve another vehicle 33% (23.1) of them are not the fault of the motorcyclist.

Therefore 46.9 of those 70 accidents are the fault of the motorcyclist.

Add that 46.9 to the 30 accidents that only involve the motorcyclist and you get 76.9 of those 100 accidents that are the fault of the motorcyclist.

Still not good enough as far as I am concerned.
I choose to ride a bike, therefore if I have a motorbike accident I am 99.9% responsible for that outcome. If you don't believe me, go have a motorbike accident without a riding a motorbike.
It is not compulsory to ride a motorbike. So all of you quoting "its not my fault - its theirs".....HTFU
Your making the rest of us look like a bunch of pussies.

note: just because its my fault I crash, does not mean I should pay more for ACC. It is also my fault when I crash a mountainbike, roll down a hill, climb trees or set my self on fire......and I have no ACC increases in these past-times of mine. But I still say its my fault.
ACC does not care who's fault it is.

**Spearfish** · 19th May 2010, 10:21

Originally Posted by avgas

Still not good enough as far as I am concerned.
I choose to ride a bike, therefore if I have a motorbike accident I am 99.9% responsible for that outcome. If you don't believe me, go have a motorbike accident without a riding a motorbike.
It is not compulsory to ride a motorbike. So all of you quoting "its not my fault - its theirs".....HTFU
Your making the rest of us look like a bunch of pussies.

note: just because its my fault I crash, does not mean I should pay more for ACC. It is also my fault when I crash a mountainbike, roll down a hill, climb trees or set my self on fire......and I have no ACC increases in these past-times of mine. But I still say its my fault.
ACC does not care who's fault it is.

I have to agree with your post.

If your into conspiracies then the modern way of dealing with a problem is to remove the problem because the cause is to hard to fix.
Say the driver training level is to low, so bikes. bicycles, mopeds etc get knocked off regularly so rather than fix the low level of skill its easier to remove the now "unsafe" vehicles off the road.
Proof was a certain police sarge admitting defeat with the statement that mopeds (governed to the speed limit) are not safe on NZ roads.
Because this type of thinking comes in slowly over time it becomes normal, your probably an irresponsible parent if your kid rides a bicycle to school.
Personally I think that's farken sad and its something lost.

**Okey Dokey** · 19th May 2010, 11:57

phurrball has put up a linky to nat radio in the acc pants down thread

**p.dath** · 19th May 2010, 12:11

I am VERY interested in this. Please please try and get the slides to post. Do you have the email address of the presenter? I am happy to email him direct and get them, PDF them, give him credit, post them, whatever.

**Ixion** · 19th May 2010, 12:14

PM sent .

**imac** · 19th May 2010, 12:40

Originally Posted by avgas

It is not compulsory to ride a motorbike. So all of you quoting "its not my fault - its theirs".....HTFU
Your making the rest of us look like a bunch of pussies.

Um so I'm walking along the street and a car (or bike or cyclst) crosses the curb and f**ks me over. It's my fault because I CHOSE to walk?
I'm not conviced by your argument

**p.dath** · 19th May 2010, 12:50

I have the presentation from Professor Lamb now, but it is in a PowerPoint, and the "ppt" extension is not allowed to be opened up. I will email the mods and request it to be added.

EDIT: Presentations now converted to PDF so I can uploaded then. The attachments came with this email:

I have attached both the PowerPoint presentation from last night and the paper which will be given in the US in a couple of weeks. These are both edit protected, so when you open them - just select "Read Only".

Distribute them as you wish according my editorial rights.
Cheers

Charles (Charley) G. Lamb
Associate Professor
Head of Business Management, Law and Marketing Department
Director of Australasian Institute of Motorcycle Studies (AIMS) project
Faculty of Commerce
P O Box 84
Lincoln University 7647
Christchurch, New Zealand

p +64 3 321 8259 | m +64 027 608 3995 | f +64 3 325 3847
e charles.lamb@lincoln.ac.nz | www.lincoln.ac.nz

Lincoln University, Te Whare Wanaka o Aoraki
New Zealand's Specialist Land Based University

**Spearfish** · 19th May 2010, 15:34

Originally Posted by p.dath

I have the presentation from Professor Lamb now, but it is in a PowerPoint, and the "ppt" extension is not allowed to be opened up. I will email the mods and request it to be added.

EDIT: Presentations now converted to PDF so I can uploaded then. The attachments came with this email:

Thanks for the work p.dath its an interesting read.

**p.dath** · 19th May 2010, 17:41

The mods have now allowed the PPT extension for me, so here are the original files as received by myself.

I have attached both the PowerPoint presentation from last night and the paper which will be given in the US in a couple of weeks. These are both edit protected, so when you open them - just select "Read Only".

Distribute them as you wish according my editorial rights.
Cheers

Charles (Charley) G. Lamb
Associate Professor
Head of Business Management, Law and Marketing Department
Director of Australasian Institute of Motorcycle Studies (AIMS) project
Faculty of Commerce
P O Box 84
Lincoln University 7647
Christchurch, New Zealand

p +64 3 321 8259 | m +64 027 608 3995 | f +64 3 325 3847
e charles.lamb@lincoln.ac.nz | www.lincoln.ac.nz

Lincoln University, Te Whare Wanaka o Aoraki
New Zealand's Specialist Land Based University