Mid-winter Coro, 20 June

[smoky]

hi side city!

read it in context carver, ......... as apposed to locking up both brakes and heading across the other side of the road
But yes there is the risk of high siding it, depends on how far you let the back wheel go.
I'm not saying that's the way to do it all the time - but it's got me out of trouble a couple times.
The main issue is to trust your tyres more, and try to take the corner rather than brake hard and come off

Anyway - it's not an appropriate subject on this thread - so it has been pointed out, and I kind of agree in hindsight

[Katman]

Anyway - it's not an appropriate subject on this thread - so it has been pointed out, and I kind of agree in hindsight

Nothing's 'appropriate' after something like this.

The reality is though, that some things are more 'important' than 'appropriate'.

[aff-man]

And just how much credibility should we place on your statement to the police, III?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=84501

Just to clear up were you there? NO.

Having observed said rider earlier in the day I would say speed was NOT a factor.

Oh and putting on a slight bit of rear brake (not standing on the thing and locking it up) tips you further in and tightens your line. Have had to do this before so I know it works. But it's a reaction thing. Been riding for about 7 years and if some of the stuff i've saved in the last four happened in the first three then i'd have had a lot more crashes. It becomes instinctual and you just automatically do stuff to compensate to the bike. Track days help with this.

[Katman]

Having observed said rider earlier in the day I would say speed was NOT a factor.



If you don't make it round a corner then speed is usually a governing factor.

It might not be over the speed limit but it's still excessive speed for the situation.

[White trash]

If you don't make it round a corner then speed is usually a governing factor.

It might not be over the speed limit but it's still excessive speed for the situation.
Usually being the key word mate.

After speaking to people who witnessed this particular tradgedy, I believe this to be one of the unusual cases where excess speed was not the cause.

[erik]

Are track days a good way to learn to trust your tyres and lean?

I think many (including myself) would not know how to react in a situation like that. I have twice stood my bike up, run it into a ditch and god knows how I remained upright.

One thing I can do well is apply a heck of a lot of front brake without it locking. I've practised that in a car heaps and some of that confidence has transferred to the bike.

Leaning is something I need to be able to do quickly, instinctively and decisively in a situation assuming that's what Michael could have done - hence my question.

Track days are about the safest place I can think of if you want to see how far you can lean your bike over before the tyres start to let go. But I don't know how useful that is on the road since (like others have said) it's a different surface etc.

I've done heaps of track days, but riding on the road is completely different.

I think on the road, practising late apexing is generally the best technique. Stay wide (or wide-ish being wary of oncoming traffic crossing the centreline or of gravel on the side of the road) going into the corner until you can see the exit, then tip it in further and tighten your line. By staying wide, you'll have a better view around the corner. I find it helps to keep my speed down a bit, but also means I'm ready to tip in and tighten my line (since that's what I'm planning to do anyway).

Take a look at these pages from the book "Proficient Motorcycling":
<a href="http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/edorp/proficient%20motorcycling/?action=view&current=p71.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/edorp/proficient%20motorcycling/th_p71.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a><a href="http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/edorp/proficient%20motorcycling/?action=view&current=p72.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/edorp/proficient%20motorcycling/th_p72.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a><a href="http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/edorp/proficient%20motorcycling/?action=view&current=p73.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/edorp/proficient%20motorcycling/th_p73.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a><a href="http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/edorp/proficient%20motorcycling/?action=view&current=p74.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e118/edorp/proficient%20motorcycling/th_p74.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>

[gunnyrob]

The BRONZ instructors at the ride right, ride safe course refer to this as following the vanishing point. good advice, good course. Only $50. i did it & learnt heaps. Check out the BRONZ web site.

[simonnn]

Hi do you need a hand with your rat bike.
I have a couple of spare GSX motors and a nitros kit.

[scottjpalmer]

Hi do you need a hand with your rat bike.
I have a couple of spare GSX motors and a nitros kit.

Try <a href="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=99492">here</a>

[DEATH_INC.]

I've been talking to Michaels partner, and she would really like any photo's etc from saturday, whether he was in them or not. If anyone's got anything I'd appreciate a pm to arrange getting them to her.
Thanks.

[davebullet]

But how does one know where their limit or ability is, on a ride your confidence can build, over confidence is a dangerous thing, thats more often when things go wrong.

When I'm riding - if I start getting a few 'ah oh' moments, those moments when you feel you heart stop for second - then I'm pushing it too hard on the road, and I dial it down a bit.

That's the one. People don't think in numbers when riding (am I riding at 80% etc...) - it's about feeling. If you feel that adrenalin (it's more than just enjoying a ride - it's that exciting / dangerous feeling) then you are saying to yourself, "I have no margin for error" (yours or others you cannot see yet)... therefore lady luck is what is keeping you safe.

[idleidolidyll]

I've just added 3 photos to the album: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=2272

Michaels' funeral was yesterday and about 10 KB Riders attended.
Motorcycles were a big part of Michaels' life and in the images shown on the screen at the service, his earliest ride looks to have been about the age of 5 on a small off road bike.
Michaels' father was a keen motorcyclist and many of the friends and family are part of New Zealands' motorcycle community.

Michaels' friends and family thanked us for the friendship and companionship Michael had with us and thanked some for specific help. They hold nobody responsible for Michaels accident and offer us only the best.

Shannon, the guy driving the 4WD Michael hit, also attended and Michaels' entire family opened their arms and hearts to all of us who were there.

In return we were able to tell them of the joy and excitement Michael had on his last day riding and showing off his pride and joy; that new Triumph.

The three pictures added all are of, or include, Michael.

[DIN PELENDA]

In return we were able to tell them of the joy and excitement Michael had on his last day riding and showing off his pride and joy; that new Triumph.

The three pictures added all are of, or include, Michael.

Thanks for photos idleiodn#@$s&. Michael had a blast on that ride, that is true. I can see Michaels smile underneath his helmet, as he is on his Triumph.

RIP Michael Lagore

[DIN PELENDA]

.

Michaels' friends and family thanked us for the friendship and companionship Michael had with us and thanked some for specific help. They hold nobody responsible for Michaels accident and offer us only the best.

No one is responsible for Michaels accident, because there is nothing that you can do to stop riders coming of they bikes and it is not about responsibility or blame each other, but it's about what we learn from this. One of the reasons why KB rides are specific and risky is that on this rides you end up with lot of different bikes sizes eg250,400,600... brands Suzuki,Kavasaki.Yamaha,Harley, Triuumph, Honda...and stile eg.dirt,cruser,sport,adventure..... and lot of different riders eg.different age and different capabilities eg.one rider 60or70% other rider to keep up will had to push it 90or99%. It is not like lot of cruisers go for ride, or one lot of sport bikes or .....and you will found that on this rides with similar bikes there is lot more respect for another rider because there is no reason to pass or compare two similar bikes. But KB ride it is mix and if you don't do anything to sort it out big turn out on KB ride will end up in mess because there is big ego (my self included)and arrogance going on eg.Kawasaki is beater than Suzuki , Honda are gay..... So there is number of things that could be done no to STOP IT BUT TO MINIMIZE chance of accident happening eg.split big ride in two groups and let faster group go first. Who decide that: is up to every rider how is he filing on that day, but it is good to give them option, let riders know which way is ride going and what to expect, not to try and keep up with other rider on the day and if some one do come of they bike, let others know about it it my be wake up cool for other riders........................list gos on. Some of KB's do that, if you don't what I'm talking about, go for ride that is being organize by Qkchk, Toto, gunnyrob....even on they rides, riders do come of they bike, but they have try to minimize that happening and maybe even save some life's. I'm not trying to be smart about it, now that this had happened becose I do same things, but we all had to do something, if is noting done abouth it, for this KB rides (which I done lot of and I done lot of stupid things) will often end up as carnage with lot of accidents and will put lot of riders off , they not going to be popular and they are going to be less of rides on KB.
Anyone that organize ride can not be responsible for what happens on the ride, because you cant stop this from happening, but it should try to make ride safer and minimize chance of this happening again. We all as a KB's and bikers should try respect and look after another and stop that ego BS ;my self included.
Ride in peace

Din

[caseye]

Well said mate.

[beyond]

Well said Din Pelenda.
I suppose one of the biggest issues of KB rides is that KB is not actually a club or organised event which of course is not bad in itself and helps to make KB what it is.

I would rather meet and ride from an event on an open forum like KB then have to join an organised club or group and be bound with a whole lot of rules and regulations that making riding no fun or take the shine of a group ride.

We all ride becuase we enjoy it and to over regulate just means people will not bother. I know some groups have very severe rules which really stifles a ride.

I have ridden in selected groups and been invited on club rides and yet, at the end of the day, everyone still ends up riding the way they want to and you will always get someone trying to "prove" themselves. I am not suggesting that this happened on the last Coro loop but it is a common problem.

On such an open ended forum like KB, when someone organises a ride, they can only brief people online what is expected and give a bit of a briefing before the ride, outlining expectations and again to ensure people know not to ride beyond their abilities.

No matter how often you tell people this, there will always be someone who needs to prove something. That is human nature and wherever there is a large group, this will generally happen.

Even if you split the groups into fast, medium and slow, even in those subgroups someone who rides at 20% of a fast rider and goes in the medium group will have someone that rides at 10% of a fast riders ability, trying to keep up with the 20% rider and so on down each group.

It's a tough one to control unless you can get inside everyones headspace and effect the way they think about how they are riding at the time.

There are so many variables on a group ride, that people do have to take responsibility for their own actions and try and consider the results if things go wrong.

Males and motorbikes and group rides, inevitably means someone at some time is going to push their personal boundaries well beyond what they are accustomed to and unless they are lucky, incidents will occurr.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this and you can be sure we all wished there was. Short of not riding at all, I can't come up with one.

[Loose Nut]

The idea of a fast groups and slow groups on the road can incite the wrong kind of competition. I think I'm pretty fast but there's no way I keep up with some others. Everyone is there to ride their own ride with no expectation of speed.

[Zapf]

The idea of a fast groups and slow groups on the road can incite the wrong kind of competition. I think I'm pretty fast but there's no way I keep up with some others. Everyone is there to ride their own ride with no expectation of speed.

Seconded...

You will often get your wanna be riding the fast group just to proof to no one that they can keep up... or even pass someone else in the fast grp. Only to outride their abilities.

[Hinny]

...when someone organises a ride, they can only brief people online what is expected and give a bit of a briefing before the ride, outlining expectations and again to ensure people know not to ride beyond their abilities.


I think you can substitute the word 'should' for the words 'can only' in the first line here.
That should be a part of what 'organising' a ride entails.