Bain, what's the answer going to be?

[98tls]

Whats everybody think?Guilty or not?Back in the day i didnt take much notice of it all really,older, possibly slighty wiser the news seems to be turned on every night in my house so have paid some attention to it all,buggered if i know,reason says hes the only one alive so its not exactly rocket science is it:bash:seriously ive no idea but many put forward theres views etc at work today so thought i would see what you lot think and why.

[Rockbuddy]

send the murderer back to jail

[Dargor]

I think they might as well just let him go. Who cares. If he kills again, get better evidence.

[Laxi]

dont think anyone can say innocent or guilty for definate, all he needs is reasonable doubt

[marty]

the question i would ask is, if robin bain killed himself and his family, he MUST have known that david would be prime supsect #1, so why not write a decent suicide note (instead of the alleged note on the computer) to ensure his son was left alone.

i reckon david also knew the incest story was going to come out, so killed them to prevent it from doing so, but didn't have the foresight to ensure he was out of the suspect loop.

[JimO]

not guilty...........father had a screw loose, whole family dysfunctional, reasonable doubt i feel

[ManDownUnder]

But I don't know all the evidence... how can I form an informed opinion?

[98tls]

But I don't know all the evidence... how can I form an informed opinion? Its KB,just make one up.

[Mully]

But I don't know all the evidence... how can I form an informed opinion?

Umm, you're on KB, you don't need to make an informed decision.

[Laava]

guilty:bash:

[dino3310]

eitherway i hope this verdict is the end of it all, this friggin bain thing has cost millions and has dragged on for to long.:done:

[tigertim20]

Defence has provided more experienced experts who have directly opposed the findings of the original prosecution experts, thus they have created reasonable doubt. Fuck this guilty or not guilty bullshit, only David will EVER know if he did it or not, but in legal terms, I think defence has shown there are 'reasonable doubts', thus I think he will be "found' not guilty. Fuck 15 years anyway, let it all be over. he lost hs whole family as well as most of hiw own life

[98tls]

Defence has provided more experienced experts who have directly opposed the findings of the original prosecution experts, thus they have created reasonable doubt. Fuck this guilty or not guilty bullshit, only David will EVER know if he did it or not, but in legal terms, I think defence has shown there are 'reasonable doubts', thus I think he will be "found' not guilty. Fuck 15 years anyway, let it all be over. he lost hs whole family as well as most of hiw own life Agreed until the "lost " bit.

[Pussy]

But I don't know all the evidence... how can I form an informed opinion?

Same here, MDU. More to it than meets the eye, methinks

[DEATH_INC.]

No-one will ever know. Let it rest, it was long ago, he was a different person then anyway.

[MisterD]

The defence has muddied the waters considerably, but since the only other option is that the Dad did it...bollocks have they shown there's any real possibility that he did ...a chain of vague possibilities does not equate to reasonable doubt.

Anyway, why would you change your bloody (literally) socks before committing suicide?

[Skyryder]

Apart from the experts who raised the posibility that the old man could have topped himself there is no 'forensic' evidence that he did so. Plenty the other way around.
As for the incest excuse again this all hearsay and I thought the defence said it all when they stated that Lanet's word could not be taken as the truth.

Bain guilty as sin.


Skyryder

[madbikeboy]

I think he's guilty - but I think he'll get let off.

I think that it's too hard to explain the blood found on him, on his socks. I think the cops bungled the case - but he's guilty.

[xgnr]

He will get off due to reasonable doubt.

I still reckon Dad did the family and David did him... evidence probably does not support it but hey it's KB so who cares.

[98tls]

He will get off due to reasonable doubt.

I still reckon Dad did the family and David did him... evidence probably does not support it but hey it's KB so who cares. Someone at work came up with the same comment,out of interest howd you come to that?

[Mully]

Someone at work came up with the same comment,out of interest howd you come to that?

I read the same thing somewhere - there was evidence that was consistent with Robin going mental and topping everyone, and then David knocking off the old man.

Technically, he could be found guilty of just one, but the prosecution has tried to hard to tie them together.

[Mikkel]

It doesn't matter - he's already spent 13 years in jail on what is, everything considered, rather ambiguous evidence.

Pretty fucked up family no matter which way you look at it. And even if he did indeed kill his family I very much doubt he could actually be considered dangerous to anyone else.

[98tls]

I read the same thing somewhere - there was evidence that was consistent with Robin going mental and topping everyone, and then David knocking off the old man.

Technically, he could be found guilty of just one, but the prosecution has tried to hard to tie them together. Ok.I may have picked up what little ive heard wrong but is it true he made/mentioned in a statement his sister was gurgling/noises etc which to Joe bloggs would assume theres life but when rang 111 stated there all dead.

[ynot slow]

I read the same thing somewhere - there was evidence that was consistent with Robin going mental and topping everyone, and then David knocking off the old man.

Technically, he could be found guilty of just one, but the prosecution has tried to hard to tie them together.

I posted something like that a while back,why couldn't the old man do it,but got caught by David,who in rage shot his old man,far fetched but hey.Depends who puts a better argument to jury really,this time the so called defence experts haven't really convinced me on what I have read or heard,be good to have been in courtroom throughout.

[98tls]

It doesn't matter - he's already spent 13 years in jail on what is, everything considered, rather ambiguous evidence.

Pretty fucked up family no matter which way you look at it. And even if he did indeed kill his family I very much doubt he could actually be considered dangerous to anyone else. Eh?if indeed....if i say,he did then why would he not be considered dangerous to anyone else?

[NighthawkNZ]

The pet cat did it... he as hungry

[short-circuit]

I read the same thing somewhere - there was evidence that was consistent with Robin going mental and topping everyone, and then David knocking off the old man.

Technically, he could be found guilty of just one, but the prosecution has tried to hard to tie them together.

You might have read my theory here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=49647&page=12&highlight=david+bain

[scumdog]

Funny how you don't get 14 years X 5 when you kill 5 people eh?

In other countries he would have got the whole nine yards.

[sil3nt]

If you stick him back in jail its going to cost the tax payers to keep him there. Release him and he gets a job or studies or whatever but actually contributes a lot more to society than sitting in a cell.

Who is he going to endanger if you release him? I would happily have David as my neighbour he isn't a threat to anyone.

[short-circuit]

Funny how you don't get 14 years X 5 when you kill 5 people eh?

In other countries he would have got the whole nine yards.

What should the penalty be for tampering with evidence in order to frame someone on a multiple murder charge?

Eye for an eye? Life sentence for a life sentence?

[Skyryder]

I posted something like that a while back,why couldn't the old man do it,but got caught by David,who in rage shot his old man,far fetched but hey.Depends who puts a better argument to jury really,this time the so called defence experts haven't really convinced me on what I have read or heard,be good to have been in courtroom throughout.


The problem with the old man as the 'doer' was that he did not have any of Stevens blood on him.

There has certainly been plenty of doubt and speculation but there is no evidence other than David Bain being the perp.


Skyryder

[Jantar]

Short Circuit has put forward a very valid possibility that neither the prosecution nor the defence have picked up on. Because it hasn't been put to the jury as a possibility they are not able to choose this as a verdict. But they can still convict David of killing Robin and find him not guilty of the rest of the murders.

This scenario does have some validity though as there has been no real evidence as to the order in which the victims died and no motive for David having killed anyone other than Robin.

My vote if I was a member of the jury:

Guilty to the murder of Robin Bain.
Not guilty to the other 4 murders.

[98tls]

If you stick him back in jail its going to cost the tax payers to keep him there. Release him and he gets a job or studies or whatever but actually contributes a lot more to society than sitting in a cell.

Who is he going to endanger if you release him? I would happily have David as my neighbour he isn't a threat to anyone. Done deal then,sleep well,guilty or not if he moved in next door to me then one of us would be moving shortly after.

[short-circuit]

Short Circuit has put forward a very valid possibility that neither the prosecution nor the defence have picked up on. Because it hasn't been put to the jury as a possibility they are not able to choose this as a verdict. But they can still convict David of killing Robin and find him not guilty of the rest of the murders.

This scenario does have some validity though as there has been no real evidence as to the order in which the victims died and no motive for David having killed anyone other than Robin.

My vote if I was a member of the jury:

Guilty to the murder of Robin Bain.
Not guilty to the other 4 murders.

I rest my case!

[Skyryder]

Short Circuit has put forward a very valid possibility that neither the prosecution nor the defence have picked up on. Because it hasn't been put to the jury as a possibility they are not able to choose this as a verdict. But they can still convict David of killing Robin and find him not guilty of the rest of the murders.

This scenario does have some validity though as there has been no real evidence as to the order in which the victims died and no motive for David having killed anyone other than Robin.

My vote if I was a member of the jury:

Guilty to the murder of Robin Bain.
Not guilty to the other 4 murders.


So how do you explain the absence of any kind of struggle on the old man (blood) if he killed Steven. This was a violent struggle that left no trace of blood on the old man.

There is just too much evidence on David...............nothing but speculation and hearsay on the old man.


Skyryder

[ajturbo]

Someone at work came up with the same comment,out of interest howd you come to that?
fuck me... you WORK?????

lol..

i think he IS guilty, BUT i also think he will get off....

so he is not guilty.... follow?

[98tls]

Short Circuit has put forward a very valid possibility that neither the prosecution nor the defence have picked up on. Because it hasn't been put to the jury as a possibility they are not able to choose this as a verdict. But they can still convict David of killing Robin and find him not guilty of the rest of the murders.

This scenario does have some validity though as there has been no real evidence as to the order in which the victims died and no motive for David having killed anyone other than Robin.

My vote if I was a member of the jury:

Guilty to the murder of Robin Bain.
Not guilty to the other 4 murders. Possible i guess.So he came home to find his family fucked up and shot the old man,still doesnt explain why (to me anyway) he knew his sister was alive and his comment to the 111 operator was "there all dead"not to mention that surely even if he didnt kill them the fact that she was (ok dying but appeared alive)not his first concern ie "an ambulance" rather than "there all dead.

[98tls]

fuck me... you WORK?????

lol..
Only just.I dedicate much more time awaiting blimp suits on late model Buells down country roads.:woohoo:

[Jantar]

Possible i guess.So he came home to find his family fucked up and shot the old man,still doesnt explain why (to me anyway) he knew his sister was alive and his comment to the 111 operator was "there all dead"not to mention that surely even if he didnt kill them the fact that she was (ok dying but appeared alive)not his first concern ie "an ambulance" rather than "there all dead.
I haven't sat through the trial so only know what was reported in the media. However my understanding is that he didn't know Laniette was still alive, just that he heard "gurgling" noises.

Now don't get me wrong here. I believe that David DID comit all murders, its just that the evidence "beyond reasonable doubt" can only apply to the murder of robin Bain. The others are merely speculation that the same person killed everyone. A person's belief doesn't constitute a required standard of proof.

[98tls]

I haven't sat through the trial so only know what was reported in the media. However my understanding is that he didn't know Laniette was still alive, just that he heard "gurgling" noises.

Now don't get me wrong here. I believe that David DID comit all murders, its just that the evidence "beyond reasonable doubt" can only apply to the murder of robin Bain. The others are merely speculation that the same person killed everyone. A person's belief doesn't constitute a required standard of proof. Yea interesting thoughts J,as i stated at the start ive no idea really and am enjoying some of the posts.

[smokeyging]

Pick holes in this one gang. is it possible that one of the girls brought home a very, shall we say, 'waywood lover'?

[James Deuce]

the question i would ask is, if robin bain killed himself and his family, he MUST have known that david would be prime supsect #1, so why not write a decent suicide note (instead of the alleged note on the computer) to ensure his son was left alone.

i reckon david also knew the incest story was going to come out, so killed them to prevent it from doing so, but didn't have the foresight to ensure he was out of the suspect loop.
Robin Bain was thoroughly mental. I would suspect that IF he did do the murder suicide thing, covering his tracks or protecting his family were completely beyond him. Remember, Mum was nuts too and both sisters on the game.

Laniet's pimp decided to go walkabout when he was supposed to be in court too.

Thing is, we're not the jury involved in the case, so it isn't up to us to make any decision based on the conjecture presented as fact by the media. Everyone has an opinion, and if you haven't been in the courtroom the whole time your opinion has no basis in fact.

[oldrider]

Did they ever look at the possibility that some one else did it?

There seemed to me that others may have had motive but the cops just focussed on these two and made a mess of their investigations!

They burned the house down prematurely too. (IMHO)

He (David) will get off because of the sub standard police work!

Beyond all reasonable doubt? :sick:

Did he do it? who really knows!

The more I see of him, the more I reckon he's capable of doing it, just another "actor" like that bloody Lundy in Palmerston North!

Bloody drama queens trying to bluff their way out of trouble, there was always one in every class at school. :shifty:

[Mikkel]

Bain guilty as sin.

Yes, no doubt about that - but which one? From the stuff that comes out about the family it sounds like the whole lot of them had something going against them.


Eh?if indeed....if i say,he did then why would he not be considered dangerous to anyone else?

Fucked up family, him having no history of violence besides the present case (not proven). Fucked up teen breaks under the pressure - maybe - and does the family...
A long time as gone past, he's not in the same situation anymore.


Don't forget he has already spent 13 years in prison. If it was indeed the case he had murdered the father and no others, 13 years would still be a long prison term for murder.

[YellowDog]

I recon this is closer to the truth. David killed his Dad only and saved the local communicty and education system from him.

Did David Bain actually give any evidence at his trial? I haven't heard his explanation of what happened. He was a 15 year old kid. What was going through his mind. Only he knows and what is clear is that hormonal kid no longer exists.

[davebullet]

When I look at David on the telly, I see either:
1. A not entirely innocent man
2. A man forced to re-live the pain of what happened to his family.

If David killed Robin and not the 4 others, then it would have had to have been in a struggle with Robin walking around / with the gun, potentially pointing at David, but then David could have claimed self defence.

The evidence I fully don't understand is the rifle that was used - Robin could not have pointed at his head and reached the trigger sufficiently as I understand. Unless Robin used a rig, someone else had to pull the trigger on him.

[xgnr]

Someone at work came up with the same comment,out of interest howd you come to that?

Funny that others have thought the same thing, it was my own thoughts when idly musing about the evidence re Bain senior and the mechanics of his "suicide".

Add into this the craziness w/motives of Bain Snr. and the traumatised behaviour of Bain Jnr. and the some of the other confusing evidence that seemed to implicate David in the crime and it sort of came up as another possible scenario :Police:

We will never know I suspect.

[MisterD]

Bain guilty as sin.


Skyryder

MisterD is going back to bed, he feels so dizzy from agreeing with Skyryder that he's fallen into the third person.

[Swoop]

My opinion is for everyone to wait and find out what the jury decide.
THEY have had the evidence and argument presented before them, NOT us.

[MisterD]

Ok how's this...David comes home and finds that his Dad has topped himself, goes do-lally and shoots the rest of the family. :sherlock:

[short-circuit]

My opinion is for everyone to wait and find out what the jury decide.
THEY have had the evidence and argument presented before them, NOT us.

yes mum

sorry mum

[Dooly]

Blame the Dingo.

[Headbanger]

he's as guilty as sin.

Though the Jury wont be able to come to a decision and another trial will be ordered.

Should have shot him at the conclusion of the first trial.

[MisterD]

Ok how's this...David comes home and finds that his Dad has topped himself, goes do-lally and shoots the rest of the family. :sherlock:

I hadn't read Short-Circuit's mirror-image theory before I wrote this...

[jim.cox]

Did David Bain actually give any evidence at his trial?

No - the defence did not call him - wonder why?


He was a 15 year old kid..

BZZT. Wrong - he was a 22yr old student - still living at home with Mummy and doing a paper round

As the prosecution says - there is NO forensic evidence against Dad, but David had his brother's blood on him

Guilty

[short-circuit]

I hadn't read Short-Circuit's mirror-image theory before I wrote this...

Doesn't matter - copyright infringement fee will be issued to you in due course

[James Deuce]

No - the defence did not call him - wonder why?

BZZT. Wrong - he was a 22yr old student - still living at home with Mummy and doing a paper round

As the prosecution says - there is NO forensic evidence against Dad, but David had his brother's blood on him

Guilty

You'd have their blood on you if you came home and found your family dead too.

He was doing the paper run (one of three jobs) trying to keep his sisters off the game.

Mum was mental. Dad was mental. Even if he was guilty, he wasn't leeching off Mum and Dad. Mum and Dad were leeching off their kids.

I'm not getting how being a 22 year old student makes him guilty.

Either way, you don't have enough info to back up your pronouncements and neither do I.

[Hitcher]

Though the Jury wont be able to come to a decision and another trial will be ordered.

We have majority verdicts now, so the jury will make a decision. That notwithstanding, there wouldn't be a third trial on this matter for several reasons, not least of which is cost to the poor long-suffering taxpayer.

[Headbanger]

We have majority verdicts now, so the jury will make a decision. That notwithstanding, there wouldn't be a third trial on this matter for several reasons, not least of which is cost to the poor long-suffering taxpayer.

come on now, Lets not allow the real world to interfere with my posts.:niceone:

[NDORFN]

Innocent. Poor cunt. Imagine the mixed feelings when he discovered that his whole fucked up family were dead, but realising he was instantly alone in the world and being blamed for the deaths no less.

[bane]

If you stick him back in jail its going to cost the tax payers to keep him there. Release him and he gets a job or studies or whatever but actually contributes a lot more to society than sitting in a cell.


whilst I agree with the sentiment, if David is found not guilty, the tax payer may be liable for millions of $$$ in compensation for wrongful imprisonment... so costs either way.

Good luck to the jury - im predicting a hung jury, and yet another retrial.

[MSTRS]

... but David had his brother's blood on him

Guilty


You'd have their blood on you if you came home and found your family dead too.



Indeed you would. Probably. The question must be...was the blood on David (forget the socks, they are obvious) simple contact transfer, or was it proximal spatter? We have not been told which it was.

[James Deuce]

It's up to the jury to decide. If he's found guilty, well and good. I don't have an opinion either way. There's been too much time between trials, the stories being told about family dynamics are vastly different to what was presented last time around, and some incompetent (I hope that's all it was) dickhead threw away evidence.

The whole thing is a cock up.

[Paul in NZ]

I think the media did it... They were obviously the only ones that had anything to gain out of it...

[Mikkel]

I'm not gettin ghow being a 22 year old student makes him guilty.

Which part of "intellectuals are dangerous and should be the first against the wall in any proper communist regime" is it you don't get? ;)


It's up to the jury to decide. If he's found guilty, well and good. I don't have an opinion either way. There's been too much time between trials, the stories being told about family dynamics are vastly different to what was presented last time around, and some incompetent (I hope that's all it was) dickhead threw away evidence.

The whole thing is a cock up.

Indeed, and given that Mr. Bain already spent 13 years in prison I'd say leave it at that.

IMO the way to go would be this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilty_not_proven). Saves the "justice" system from completely loosing face too.

[Skyryder]

he's as guilty as sin.

Though the Jury wont be able to come to a decision and another trial will be ordered.

Should have shot him at the conclusion of the first trial.



There is always the possibilty that the jury may find that there is 'insufficient' evidence.

Skyryder

[Crazy Steve]

Its Not Guilty............

Crazy Steve..

[pete376403]

So how do you explain the absence of any kind of struggle on the old man (blood) if he killed Steven. This was a violent struggle that left no trace of blood on the old man..Skyryder

Marks on Robin Bains hand that apparently matched Stevens teeth.

[pritch]

dont think anyone can say innocent or guilty for definate, all he needs is reasonable doubt

Having been watching it on the news, simply because it was there, I decided today that I'm bloody glad I'm not on the jury. I guess in the end it will come down to "reasonable doubt". In that case he may walk, pending a multi million dollar payout?

[Big Dan]

Coming off the thread that 98tls has done i bring you a poll

Mods feel free to merge threads

[short-circuit]

Coming off the thread that 98tls has done i bring you a poll

Mods feel free to merge threads

Yay - I can play juror

[roadracingoldfart]

Not guilty


WHY ?????


Go read the book Karum co-wrote. eye opening.

[Maha]

Not guilty
WHY ?????
Go read the book Karum co-wrote. eye opening.

We wont know if hes guilty or not guilty for possibly a few days yet.
But I hear what you are saying about the book, I havent read it, but did read the David Yallop book on Thomas.

Has the crown given any idea as to what the motive was, that David Bain killed his family?

If there has been no motive, then they are saying he is a psychopthic killer (which he clearly is not)

[short-circuit]

Yay - I can play juror

I've changed my mind. Can I change my vote?

[slofox]

and some incompetent (I hope that's all it was) dickhead threw away evidence.



Same thing happened in the AA Thomas case...and it was NOT incompetence that time either..."oh dear, we lost that evidence...how convenient!"

[NighthawkNZ]

Not guilty
WHY ?????
Go read the book Karum co-wrote. eye opening.

My boss read the same book... and reckons guilty... what gives...

[twotyred]

Has the crown given any idea as to what the motive was, that David Bain killed his family?

If there has been no motive, then they are saying he is a psychopthic killer (which he clearly is not)

no motive ever put forward... reasonable doubt,he should walk.

[Indiana_Jones]

A book does not mean someone is innocent.

If David is accquited, that doesn't prove Robin did it nor does it prove David is innocent.

-Indy

[YellowDog]

No - the defence did not call him - wonder why?



BZZT. Wrong - he was a 22yr old student - still living at home with Mummy and doing a paper round

As the prosecution says - there is NO forensic evidence against Dad, but David had his brother's blood on him

Guilty
OK - I got that completely wrong.

Yes I agree, he may have done it :)

[Ronin]

I am convinced that I have no idea if David is guilty or not.

I am however positive that I will disagree with which ever verdict the Jury reaches.

My gut says that David is guilty based on his 111 call but who knows.

Glad I'm not on the Jury.

[short-circuit]

Fuck David's hot to trot these days aye?

[short-circuit]

Specially if he gets constipation - I mean compensation

[roadracingoldfart]

My boss read the same book... and reckons guilty... what gives...


Ohhh you silly man ..... if your boss is like mine then hes a pillock ,
So im rite and he cant read.

Seriously , anything has a certain amount of self interpritation in it.
I read David and Goliath twice and i know it does not say he is inocent but it does make it clear to me there was a slack investigation and the tampering was rampent. Bad choices were made and inexperiance made it seem ok at the time.
EG , one of the bodies had blood running uphill from a wound in the pics and yet it was denied the body had been moved by anyone.

[roadracingoldfart]

We wont know if hes guilty or not guilty for possibly a few days yet.
But I hear what you are saying about the book, I havent read it, but did read the David Yallop book on Thomas.

Has the crown given any idea as to what the motive was, that David Bain killed his family?

If there has been no motive, then they are saying he is a psychopthic killer (which he clearly is not)


I agree and if he is found not guilty by a jury it will not mean he didnt do it , OJ Simpson can claim that as well lol.
If you do read the book im sure it will profoundly sway your opinion of a police force that wasnt used to dealing with such tragic crime scenes. They screwed up badly.
To my knowledge , no motive has been quoted.
What was to gain ? , even the house was only good for a bonfire.

[YellowDog]

When the verdict is about to be announced, I am sure that David will be 'ALL EARS'
(Fuck me - his head profile looks like the FA cup)

[Maha]

I agree and if he is found not guilty by a jury it will not mean he didnt do it , OJ Simpson can claim that as well lol.
If you do read the book im sure it will profoundly sway your opinion of a police force that wasnt used to dealing with such tragic crime scenes. They screwed up badly.
To my knowledge , no motive has been quoted.
What was to gain ? , even the house was only good for a bonfire.

Using the Thomas/Crew case as an example.....
The Crown had their guy (Thomas)
Some beleive Len Dhemler did it.

After reading the David Yallop book, I figured (and this is my opinion) that neither of those men killed the crews, Janette killed Harvey and a few days later, killed herself (hence her being seen holding the baby the day after the double murder supposedly took place)...who dumped the bodies?...Dhemler.

The Bain case, David has served time for the killing of his family, he is on trail yet again for the same killings, I dont beleive he killed them all, just the one.
The Crown beleive he did it.
Some believe Robin did it...
There is a third senario.

[Number One]

13 years would still be a long prison term for murder.
Sad that it is only victims who get lifesentances eh?

[short-circuit]

Sad that it is only the victims that get life eh?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought they got death

[Number One]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought they got death
Thank you MR Pedant Sir. I was carefully drinking wine and editing my post to come across more CLEARLY for people like yours benefit :bleh: note the change above ;)

[riffer]

Sheesh.

No-one's considered that it was Stephen who nutted out.

Killed them all.

David came home, found them all and have a massive fight with Stephen in his room, and ended up killing Stephen.

whaddaya reckon?

[short-circuit]

Thank you MR Pedant Sir. I was carefully drinking wine and editing my post to come across more CLEARLY for people like yours benefit :bleh: note the change above ;)

Yes well being too loose with the facts was what got us all here in the first place innit?

[Number One]

David came home, found them all and have a massive fight with Stephen in his room, and ended up killing Stephen.

whaddaya reckon?
I think that is plausible for sure

[Number One]

Yes well being too loose with the facts was what got us all here in the first place innit?
Being TOO loose with the facts?

Geeze man - don't you know??!!

Never let the facts get in the way of a good thread I mean story ;)

[Brownstoo]

There's too many holes, he's gonna walk

[Skyryder]

Marks on Robin Bains hand that apparently matched Stevens teeth.


Not good enough.

Mr Adams said the marks could have been caused if Robin Bain had struck Stephen Bain with an upper cut to the teeth.

But in cross-examination he conceded the marks could have been caused by something other than teeth.

And where is the blood if Steven and Robin fought??

There is not any.............because they did not.


Skyryder

[woodybee]

No-one will ever know. Let it rest, it was long ago, he was a different person then anyway.All this mother fucker has done, is gone to the school of crime, and thought himself innocent, and you can convince yourself of anything.

yeah sure the evidence from back then was a little obscure, but why the fuck would the Dad have done the whole family and left Little Davey alive, there is no way he would have, Father and Son loathed each other, and David would have been the first one to have got a bullet, but as he didn't then it proves to me that Dad was the first one that got the bullet and then David lost it completely he was aware the family saw what he had done, he panicked and fryed the lot of them, if only one of them had survived.

Then that lone family member, could have cast the stone at David and shown im for the cold caculating murderer he is.

He is the guiltiest fucker I have ever seen, I have followed the case closely, Defence solicitors always glorify with making the evidence look abit shabby and then the judge says it has to go beyond reasonable doubt. The defence solicitors are as fucking guilty as those who they represent.,

Having been a cop in England for 14 years, I wouldnt trust a defence solicitor as far as I could throw him, they have got new defence solicitors in on this case not the old ones, but they get the old cops in that are shaky on their memory, its all unfair.

Defence Solicitors are a law to themselves and got folk off for the most horrendous things, as they have cruel mischievious minds and are borne from the same mould as these murdering evil fuckers. They know the truth and twist it to get the bad guys off. You can thank them for these horrible folk walking the earth again....a lot of them go onto reoffend too.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but how the hell can Bain live with himself, and too all those Defence solicitors how the fuck can you sleep at night, knowing that you are defending someone who has done a henious crime.

A leopard will never change his spots and all this rehabilitation bollocks, never works crims have evil and calculating minds, they do wrong knowingly. They do not deserve to walk the earth with good mortals..........

Here endeth the lesson..............Woo nothing like letting off steam on bad guys.................Roar......................... ...Didnt even have enough time to put any smiley bits in.

Tatty Bye

Woodybee. And don't nobody give me a bad reputation for this one, otherwise I will hunt you do gooders and ever so lovely....give the bad guys a chance, and let you know my thoughts....................Ta Dar.......

[RIPOFF]

What you wrote is a reality,crimes get away with heavie shit all the time in NZ,im no red neck but one things for sure eye for eye.:blank:

[Mikkel]

He is the guiltiest fucker I have ever seen, I have followed the case closely, Defence solicitors always glorify with making the evidence look abit shabby and then the judge says it has to go beyond reasonable doubt. The defence solicitors are as fucking guilty as those who they represent.,

Having been a cop in England for 14 years, I wouldnt trust a defence solicitor as far as I could throw him, they have got new defence solicitors in on this case not the old ones, but they get the old cops in that are shaky on their memory, its all unfair.

Defence Solicitors are a law to themselves and got folk off for the most horrendous things, as they have cruel mischievious minds and are borne from the same mould as these murdering evil fuckers. They know the truth and twist it to get the bad guys off. You can thank them for these horrible folk walking the earth again....a lot of them go onto reoffend too.

Gee, you certainly come across openminded and objective on this whole subject. I hope not too many working cops share that attitude, if so we are in deeper shit than I could have imagined...

Between the 29th clause of the Magna Carta (and what follows from it) and the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" the legal system is, generally speaking, put together so that there's a greater risk of acquitting the guilty than condemning the innocent.
Would any of us really have it any other way? If so, there's plenty of places around the world where they don't fuck around - Saudia Arabia anyone? - that doesn't lead to less violent or criminal societies though.

If the evidence doesn't hold up, the prosecution fails and he walks - whether he did it or not - just like he should.

[ynot slow]

This cops and robbers(lawyers are legal robbers)stuff is just that.
Is almost like who can spin the best yarn,and make it believable to 12 normal people get the result.

Hope the jury can get a result,the scary part is beyond doubt,thus the crux reasonable doubt,and for what has been proffered there is doubt.

Have thought he was guilty,but with nagging doubts about Karams thinking on evidence.The other thing is Bain has to admit innocence as he will lose his major backer and friend in Karam.You'd think if he said yep I did it down the raod Karam would be up for murder.

[Swoop]

Has the crown given any idea as to what the motive was, that David Bain killed his family?

If there has been no motive, then they are saying he is a psychopthic killer (which he clearly is not)
The judge has basically said "forget motive, just tell us who did it" in the summing up.

There is a third senario.
The butler did it.:eek:

[oldrider]

The judge has basically said "forget motive, just tell us who did it" in the summing up.

The butler did it.:eek:

The butler! :confused: Was he a relative?

Did no other family members have a motive, if it wasn't David or Robin?

Well I bet a few "uncles etc" have lost some sweat lately and may be relieved when it's all over. (for a while anyway) :shifty:

[jg33]

r0bin killed the familly , david got home and killed robin, case should only be one charge of manslauter................david already don 12yrs ' STOP WASTING OUR TAXS ON B>>>S>>. thats my 2 cents worth

[Crazy Steve]

Jury will be out by the end of the day...

The Verdict.....Not Guilty ! ! !

Case closed..

Crazy Steve..

[jim.cox]

r0bin killed the familly , david got home and killed robin
#define ! NOT

nice theory !

how ya gonna make the evidence fit that one?

[DougieNZ]

Hmm there is one other point here. If David is innocent why did he not take the stand and let the jury see the "whites of his eyes". I know he doesn't have to but I would love to see him answer the following simple questions:

1. When you got home you said you saw your mother and father dead and could hear Laniet "gurgling". So why wait 20-25 minutes before calling 111?

2. When you did call 111, why did you say "they're all dead" when you said later that you only saw your mother and father?

3. Bearing in mind the above, how did you get your brother's blood on the back of your shirt?

4. Why did you turn the washing machine on before dialling 111?

I don't believe that this was a case of multiple murderers. In this case, David would have the perfect self defence case... so why not just simply tell police what happened?:Police:

[MIXONE]

I lived about 100 metres away from Emery St. at the time of the murders and subsequently followed the case very closely and at the time was convinced of David's guilt.I have since read Karam's book and was totally convinced of his innocence.Now having followed the retrial I just don't know anymore.I'm
glad I'm not on the jury!!!
IMO I think he is guilty but too much doubt remains to convict him.

[short-circuit]

I think he is guilty but too much doubt remains to convict him.

Me too.

I think he most likely did the lot of them.

If he didn't, he most certainly topped his old man.

[chucky19]

Gee, you certainly come across openminded and objective on this whole subject. I hope not too many working cops share that attitude, if so we are in deeper shit than I could have imagined...

Between the 29th clause of the Magna Carta (and what follows from it) and the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" the legal system is, generally speaking, put together so that there's a greater risk of acquitting the guilty than condemning the innocent.
Would any of us really have it any other way? If so, there's plenty of places around the world where they don't fuck around - Saudia Arabia anyone? - that doesn't lead to less violent or criminal societies though.

If the evidence doesn't hold up, the prosecution fails and he walks - whether he did it or not - just like he should.

Your sarcasm in your opening sentence is just as strong as your interpretation of the legal process.

It is the duty of the police to fairly investigate crimes and to gather evidence to bring perpetrators of those crimes before the Court. If there was insufficient evidence to establish a prima facie case against a suspect then the trial would never be able to proceed, and that is not decided by the police but by the Courts. It is up to the police and their experts to gather and interpret the evidence for the purposes of proving the ingredients of the charges against the accused.

The suspect is 'innocent until proven guilty' in the eyes of the Court only. If one of your family members was murdered would you expect the police to investigate the local corner dairy owner with the same intensity as the prime suspect?? They are not there to investigate every Tom, Dick or Harry suspect, they are there to collect relevant and admissable evidence. (Unfortunately for the police the rules regarding admissable evidence are stacked heavily in favour of the accused. I hope that one day some of that evidence will come out in this case.)

Surely if credible evidence to the contrary arises or if witnesses recant their stories then charges against a suspect will be dropped, and it occurs daily when victims of domestic violence withdraw their statements. If they don't do this then sure, vilify and malign them all you want.

Believe me, there would have been nothing the guys at the Every St scene would have liked more than to have written the scene off as a murder/suicide, and i suspect that some vital evidence was not pursued properly due to the fact that in the first instance they believed that it was Robin that had committed the murders. You can be sure that if it was collected the defence would have had to call more 'experts' to try and confuse the jury.

Yes leave it up to the Court to determine guilt or innocence.

Are jury trials the best solution?? No - unless you are guilty.

[MSTRS]

It is up to the police and their experts to gather and interpret the evidence for the purposes of proving the ingredients of the charges against the accused.


Quite right. But playing fast and loose with evidence is a no-no. And that happens too often. Wilful tampering or otherwise, it happened in this case too.

[YellowDog]

If DB was innocent, all he had to do was to take the stand and explain and describe what happened.

He and is team are trying to get off on a technicality.

OJ Simpson got away with murder, so why shouldn't DB?
(BECAUSE IT IS WRONG)

[Maha]

'Not Guilty'

[twotyred]

justice finally!!:second::clap::clap:

[MattRSK]

That was quick!

[madmal64]

That will cost us

[twotyred]

That will cost us

and so it should...

[98tls]

'Not Guilty' Go figure eh.

[Laxi]

NOT GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES!!! how much did that crap cost the country, fked up justice department

[Str8 Jacket]

Based on only the small amount of facts that the media "fed" us I believe that there was always reasonable doubt to not have been convicted in the first place.

I really hope that he is not guilty.

[98tls]

Getting the money will be a lot harder than getting a not guilty verdict.

[samgab]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10576209

Not guilty on all charges.

[smoky]

Now he can back to his life (what's left of it), and get back to riding his motorbike

[98tls]

Seems our poll carried no weight with the jurors.:blank:

[twotyred]

Based on only the small amount of facts that the media "fed" us I believe that there was always reasonable doubt to not have been convicted in the first place.

I really hope that he is not guilty.

those of us that have followed it since day one and know "some" of those involved have always known he was innocent..

[twotyred]

Getting the money will be a lot harder than getting a not guilty verdict.

it is a completely seperate issue and not the issue at all really

[YellowDog]

Farking Amazing............

[marty]

'not guilty' is a long way from 'innocent'

[twotyred]

Farking Amazing............

farking brilliant..........

[Str8 Jacket]

those of us that have followed it since day one and know "some" of those involved have always known he was innocent..

I am a Government employee. I do not have an opinion.

[MattRSK]

those of us that have followed it since day one and know "some" of those involved have always known he was innocent..

Oh really so you did it then! That's the only way of knowing.

[sunhuntin]

a good result. i will never know how they managed to find impartial kiwi jurors... theres very few that havent heard of and formed an opinion of the case.

[twotyred]

I am a Government employee. I do not have an opinion.

ok....:niceone:

[Headbanger]

When he gets his compensation he can get those ears fixed up sweet as.

[twotyred]

Oh really so you did it then! That's the only way of knowing.

lol, my best friend is related to the head cop involved

[MattRSK]

lol, my best friend is related to the head cop involved

Well they should have just asked you then. Would of saved a lot of money.

[short-circuit]

those of us that have followed it since day one and know "some" of those involved have always known he was innocent..

Hey calm down there. A finding of Not Guilty is not proof of innocence

[98tls]

it is a completely seperate issue and not the issue at all really Actually it was in response to your "so it should" comment so it didnt seem seperate at all.

[marty]

lol, my best friend is related to the head cop involved

oh you should have been the prime witness then with that kind of connection - you must know EVERYTHING. we bow down to your related greatness (twice removed)

[Dooly]

When he gets his compensation he can get those ears fixed up sweet as.

And some new jersies!!!

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://www.drinkworks.com.au/images/tui-beer-bottle.jpg">

-Indy

[98tls]

those of us that have followed it since day one and know "some" of those involved have always known he was innocent.. :killingme:killingme Really.Care to enlighten us.

[short-circuit]

If DB was innocent, all he had to do was to take the stand and explain and describe what happened. OJ Simpson got away with murder, so why shouldn't DB?
(BECAUSE IT IS WRONG)

DB and OJ?

Are you taking this international?

[smoky]

'not guilty' is a long way from 'innocent'

Not guilty is a hell of a lot further away from 'guilty'

[pete376403]

In Scotland they have a thrid option - Not Proven

[MattRSK]

Some great coverage on the television haha.

[peasea]

And some new jersies!!!

Why? What's wrong with the artworks he already has?

[short-circuit]

Fuck there wasn't much deliberation.

Inny minny miney moe....

Fuck it outta here in time for neighbours

[twotyred]

:killingme:killingme Really.Care to enlighten us.

:killingme:killingme nope

have a nice day :niceone::drinknsin

[Crazy Steve]

'Not Guilty'

Yeah yeah...

Please see my earlier post of 3hours ago.....

It says all what happened in advance......

Crazy Steve..

[short-circuit]

:killingme:killingme nope

have a nice day :niceone::drinknsin

TooTryer and David are friends on facebook.

[MattRSK]

TooTryer and David are friends on facebook.

Well really he is friends with a guy who knows a guy who has David on his facebook.

[98tls]

TooTryer and David are friends on facebook. Well then finally they will get to have a nice romantic dinner.

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://www.topnews.in/light/files/O.J.Simpson.jpg">

I didn't do shit, Nigger!

-Indy

[marty]

Well really he is friends with a guy who knows a guy who has David on his facebook.

maybe his mum's friend used to be on the PTA at a school that had a sausage sizzle with the one that robin bain worked at.

[short-circuit]

Well then finally they will get to have a nice romantic dinner.

Perhaps TooTryer is under the impression that if he sticks up for David on KB he's "in" when it comes compensation time.

Romantic dinners on!!!

[oldguy]

He is guilty of one crime, he should get 20 years for crimes against fashion, I will never get that pic of his jerseys out of my head:doh:

Im happy with the out come.

[peasea]

Some great coverage on the television haha.

It's all becoming so U-S-A isn't it?

Health and justice are for the rich. (And while I know DB isn't rich, Joe Karam sure has poured a shitload into this.)

It's nice to say 'money is not the issue' but without it you're pretty much fucked. Add a simple chap to the equation (A A Thomas is another, with all due respect to both guys) and the cops make mincemeat (for want of a better word) out of things/people.

If DB is guilty and has been found otherwise then he must be some kind of criminal genius with incredible backing. If he is, as was found, not guilty then he has suffered immeasurably. Compensation should be forthcoming and he shouldn't have to fight for it.

DB can now go home and properly mourn the loss of his family and JK is vindicated. I'd like to buy them both a beer, I'm sure they could do with one.

[MattRSK]

It's all becoming so U-S-A isn't it?



I find most of the stories on the news are far to invasive and simply unnecessary. A lot of the time I find myself saying why should anyone else have to know about this. Obviously not talking about the bain trial.

[James Deuce]

I've got this mental image of redneck heads literally exploding with frustration, and the headless bodies running around exclaiming loudly through their neck hole that, "It must have been a liberal jury, they must have been Labour voters. Neeeeeyah."

[short-circuit]

DB can now go home and properly mourn the loss of his family and JK is vindicated. I'd like to buy them both a beer, I'm sure they could do with one.

Dangerous Bastard can buy David Bain a Dominion Brewery beverage

[98tls]

I to would buy him a beer but i would want witnesses.

[short-circuit]

Dangerous Bastard can buy David Bain a Dominion Brewery beverage

Tui would be more appropriate though

[MattRSK]

They were following Bain out of the court with the video camera and some reporter yelled out holy shit its the jury as some people were exiting the back of the court.

[peasea]

I find most of the stories on the news are far to invasive and simply unnecessary. A lot of the time I find myself saying why should anyone else have to know about this. Obviously not talking about the bain trial.

The mass media are a bunch of arrogant arsewipes. I often think that when celeb's and others lash out, bash a cameraman or whatever that often it's justified. Then the person in the frame gets the criminal charge. (?) What right does the media have to thrust a camera in your face and ask dumb questions when you're simply walking down the street? None!

[peasea]

Tui would be more appropriate though

OK, Tui ad's, where are they?????

[YellowDog]

If you are David Bain, what do you do now?

His reason for being has now gone.

It'll be tough.

[peasea]

I've got this mental image of redneck heads literally exploding with frustration, and the headless bodies running around exclaiming loudly through their neck hole that, "It must have been a liberal jury, they must have been Labour voters. Neeeeeyah."

Your imagination is of concern.

[peasea]

if you are david bain, what do you do now?

His reason for being has now gone.

It'll be tough.

parrrrrrrrrteeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MattRSK]

The mass media are a bunch of arrogant arsewipes. I often think that when celeb's and others lash out, bash a cameraman or whatever that often it's justified. Then the person in the frame gets the criminal charge. (?) What right does the media have to thrust a camera in your face and ask dumb questions when you're simply walking down the street? None!

Yeah. recently a business in Christchurch was closed because the owners were getting divorced. Once the media got hold of this fact they were bloody sitting outside their house asking them if it was fair that their divorce meant people lost jobs. To me that is too far and too personal.

[MattRSK]

If you are David Bain, what do you do now?

His reason for being has now gone.

It'll be tough.

Well he can't 'do it again' can he.

[peasea]

Please, please, please. Is there some way we turn this into a cop-bashing thread?

Please?

[short-circuit]

Well he can't 'do it again' can he.

Bling well earned

[JimO]

i thought he was innocent, regarding compensation if he goes for it he is a gold digger if he doesnt it will be because he is guilty

[Naki Rat]

NOT GUILTY ON ALL CHARGES!!! how much did that crap cost the country, fked up justice department

25 million according to NewstalkZB this morning!

[MattRSK]

Please, please, please. Is there some way we turn this into a cop-bashing thread?

Please?

The lens, the lens, don't touch the lens!

[James Deuce]

Can anyone see where that cartridge I just kicked went?

[peasea]

The lens, the lens, don't touch the lens!

Are you suggesting he was 'framed'?

[MattRSK]

Are you suggesting he was 'framed'?

I don't know, are YOU suggesting he was framed?

[peasea]

Can anyone see where that cartridge I just kicked went?

We have high-calibre cops, don't we?

Not.

Now they might have to 'shell out'.

[short-circuit]

Fuck there wasn't much deliberation.

Inny minny miney moe....

Fuck it outta here in time for neighbours

Yip. There ya go. Neighbours has just started and the T.V coverage cut none of it short. Good job guys

[peasea]

I don't know, are YOU suggesting he was framed?

One cop, at least, described DB as "the enemy". Hmmmmm.

[marty]

I guess he's off to KFC now to murder a Family Pack......all by himself.

[MattRSK]

One cop, at least, described DB as "the enemy". Hmmmmm.

Well if there is one thing we know for certain, it was not twotyres friend who said that.

[Scouse]

'Not Guilty'
Unfookin believable I certainly would not want him living in the same house as me.
Obviously this pack of Jurors believe in coincidence

[Indiana_Jones]

I solved the case!

This is who did it!....


<img src="http://static.stuff.co.nz/1186574400/369/75369.jpg">

And fled on...


<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ad/Shergarface.jpg">

-Indy

[oldrider]

David Bain didn't do it! Well, who did?

I hope it doesn't all just fade away now, five people are still dead! :Police:

If the Crown are so sure that Robin didn't do it and the jury say David didn't do it, SOME ONE DID? :doh:

[Drew]

For a person to say, "not guilty, is far from innocent", is very disturbing to me.

Does anyone here actually understand the statement, "innocent untill PROVEN guilty"? Consider the sheer magnitude of that statement for a moment. It is what the justice system is built on, and is the very reason you get to enjoy some freedoms so flipantly taken for granted.

A finding of not guilty should mean, that one cannot have the accusation held against them, but that aint the world we live in, so he should get compensation, since the guy will be looked at sideways the rest of his life. How could he get a decent job like that?

I dont know the facts of the case, VERY few people do, but to suggest things about the prosecution, or David Bain is cowerdly, and just plain bullshit.

[98tls]

David Bain didn't do it! Well, who did?

I hope it doesn't all just fade away now, five people are still dead! :Police:

If the Crown are so sure that Robin didn't do it and the jury say David didn't do it, SOME ONE DID? :doh: Possibly his jersey,when good jerseys go bad.:nono:

[peasea]

David Bain didn't do it! Well, who did?

I hope it doesn't all just fade away now, five people are still dead! :Police:

If the Crown are so sure that Robin didn't do it and the jury say David didn't do it, SOME ONE DID? :doh:

Did they have a butler?

[Drew]

David Bain didn't do it! Well, who did?

I hope it doesn't all just fade away now, five people are still dead! :Police:

If the Crown are so sure that Robin didn't do it and the jury say David didn't do it, SOME ONE DID? :doh:

A proper case has never been made to support the theory that Robin Bain did it.

There is however no evidence to suggest anyone else was there according to the prosecution, to try and say an outsider did it now, would be a complete waste of time. Even I could defend the accused on that wee gem.

[ManDownUnder]

Not Guilty??? I hope that's what the KB poll said - otherwise the Jury must've gotten it wrong!

[marty]

I'm a bit disappointed none of his family was there to support him.

[98tls]

Did they have a butler? If they did he was a lazy cunt,place was a mess.

[Creeping Death]

Did they have a butler?

If they did,he wasn't a very tidy one...

[MIXONE]

'Not Guilty'

It's a damn shame none of his family were in court to support him.

[peasea]

Possibly his jersey,when good jerseys go bad.:nono:

Stitched up, ya reckon?

[MattRSK]

I'm a bit disappointed none of his family was there to support him.

Haha now that is brilliant!

[Fatt Max]

Has anyone asked the guy in the court who kept passing the gun around? I mean, he seemed to know the workings of a gun, when anyone wanted to look at it he gave it to them and then he took it away each night. Fuck me, have IQ's gone seriously south lately....?

I mean, the gun was obviously his so he must have done it....jeez, have I solved the case or what?

Oh, and any idea when I can expect to get my red grape crushing socks back, its picking season soon.

[marty]

For a person to say, "not guilty, is far from innocent", is very disturbing to me.

Does anyone here actually understand the statement, "innocent untill PROVEN guilty"? Consider the sheer magnitude of that statement for a moment. It is what the justice system is built on, and is the very reason you get to enjoy some freedoms so flipantly taken for granted.

A finding of not guilty should mean, that one cannot have the accusation held against them, but that aint the world we live in, so he should get compensation, since the guy will be looked at sideways the rest of his life. How could he get a decent job like that?

I dont know the facts of the case, VERY few people do, but to suggest things about the prosecution, or David Bain is cowerdly, and just plain bullshit.


So on that theory, no-one should be denied bail.

And the only one who REALLY knows, is bain himself.

I doubt that he'll get compo - does everyone who gets found not guilty get it? would you be happy with a patched gang member being found not guilty getting compo for his trouble?

[James Deuce]

I'm a bit disappointed none of his family was there to support him.

You bad, bad, bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad,bad, bad, man.

Bad.

[Creeping Death]

If they did he was a lazy cunt,place was a mess.

Ooooohhh snapped!Lol!

[Deano]

This should be on comedy central. Keep up the good work.

[chucky19]

Quite right. But playing fast and loose with evidence is a no-no. And that happens too often. Wilful tampering or otherwise, it happened in this case too.

And I'm sure that you could come up with evidence to support this statement.

Fingerprints?? Fibres?? Blood??

Doesn't seem to matter how much you come up with, just get a high profile supporter, a good defence liar and you can get away with murder (or 5).

He won't get compo because to do so he would have to prove his innocence, and that may mean facing the evidence that wasn't allowed to be given at trial.

[MattRSK]

And the only one who REALLY knows, is bain himself.



Don't forget twotyres mate.

[98tls]

Stitched up, ya reckon? Confused id say,Grandma Bain must have been fucking colour blind.

[James Deuce]

And I'm sure that you could come up with evidence to support this statement.

Fingerprints?? Fibres?? Blood??

Doesn't seem to matter how much you come up with, just get a high profile supporter, a good defence liar and you can get away with murder (or 5).

He won't get compo because to do so he would have to prove his innocence, and that may mean facing the evidence that wasn't allowed to be given at trial.

Errr, if you're referring to David Bain's case evidence was tampered with in situ ,and a large chunk of it was thrown away in 1995.

Forgive me for being thick, but Not Guilty is about as good a reference for innocence as you'll get out of the court system.

[Pedrostt500]

David Bain didn't do it! Well, who did?

I hope it doesn't all just fade away now, five people are still dead! :Police:

If the Crown are so sure that Robin didn't do it and the jury say David didn't do it, SOME ONE DID? :doh:

The crown have been known to get it wrong in the past, Arthur Allen Tomas springs to mind.
Now alot of the times the crown gets it right, yes I still have faith in our justice system, it is not a perfect system but it is the one we have.
What we have to be careful of in these cases is trial by News Media.

[short-circuit]

Don't forget twotyres mate.

And TooTryer himself

[short-circuit]

Errr, if you're referring to David Bain's case evidence was tampered with in situ ,and a large chunk of it was thrown away in 1995.

Forgive me for being thick, but Not Guilty is about as good a reference for innocence as you'll get out of the court system.

You're forgiven

[ajturbo]

shame his family wasn't there to support him...

[Oakie]

The verdict leaves me uncomfortable.

I agree that the defence did a good job in demonstrating reasonable doubt.
I agree that with the prosecution being unable to prove beyond doubt that he did it ... he had to walk free.

Did I mention that my cousin was involved in Bain's legal defense in the very early stages? Yes. I feel uncomfortable about him walking free.

OK. Moving on now. He's free. I hope he has a good life and is allowed to contribute to society somehow and that not too many people jump on his coat-tails to make money or get publicity for themselves.

[MattRSK]

Legal aid = $2.7 Million

[Drew]

So on that theory, no-one should be denied bail.Bail is granted to those, that a court deems not to be a danger to society. It has nothing to do with innocence.

And the only one who REALLY knows, is bain himself.


I doubt that he'll get compo - does everyone who gets found not guilty get it? would you be happy with a patched gang member being found not guilty getting compo for his trouble?

He spent thirteen years in jail, for a crime he has been found not to have commited. Minimum compensation would be minimum wage for those years. Then ACC will have to figure out what he should get for mental anguish.

There is at least one case I know of, where a guy escaping prison broke his arm. For that he got a lump sum pay out from ACC. This seems pretty bloody rough to me, but it comes under the one standard for everyone umbrella I guess.

[marty]

Legal aid = $2.7 Million

there's his payout.

[Mom]

The defense team did a fantastic job, and created "reasonable doubt" in the mind of the jury that heard the case this time.

I wasn't on that jury, and have not heard all the evidence presented to the court. I have however, read and heard about this case over and over and over. Having said that I have only heard/read what has been previously filtered via what ever media presented it.

While I personally dont think this man Baine is completely innocent, based purely on my gut instinct I might add, I accept the verdict as it stands.

I really hope that this young man can recover from his undeniably shitty upbringing, his prison term for commiting one of the worst multiple murders this country has ever seen and the stress of having to go to trial yet again when the original verdict was quashed.

Think of all the money it has cost us, lets hope it does not cost us more!

[Sketchy_Racer]

Legal aid = $2.7 Million

What are you doing on here! Do you even have a bike!! (RG100!! here btw)

[Deano]

The verdict leaves me uncomfortable.

I agree that the defence did a good job in demonstrating reasonable doubt.
I agree that with the prosecution being unable to prove beyond doubt that he did it ... he had to walk free.

Did I mention that my cousin was involved in Bain's legal defense in the very early stages? Yes. I feel uncomfortable about him walking free.

OK. Moving on now. He's free. I hope he has a good life and is allowed to contribute to society somehow and that not too many people jump on his coat-tails to make money or get publicity for themselves.

Is your cousin on facebook too ?

[MattRSK]

there's his payout.

I guess you could say we all paid our part in proving his innocence.

[peasea]

The crown have been known to get it wrong in the past, Arthur Allen Tomas springs to mind.
Now alot of the times the crown gets it right, yes I still have faith in our justice system, it is not a perfect system but it is the one we have.
What we have to be careful of in these cases is trial by News Media.

It's the way of the world mate.

[98tls]

Legal aid = $2.7 Million Wonder what its cost Karam?To be honest whilst i dont personally agree with the verdict (which means nothing) i am happy for Joe Karam as his support has been vindicated.

[MattRSK]

What are you doing on here! Do you even have a bike!! (RG100!! here btw)

Mate you know me. When there is piss to be taken i'm going to take the piss.

[Drew]

Legal aid = $2.7 Million


A comforting thing it is too.

I would need legal aid if I was charged with a crime, and it's good to know there isn't a limit on it.

[NDORFN]

Good for him. The guy deserves a medal.

[Max Preload]

Hey calm down there. A finding of Not Guilty is not proof of innocence

Innocent until proven guilty. Not proven guilty = innocent.

[ynot slow]

If compo is granted watch the hangers on jump into spotlight,he has a few original friends who stood by,Karam only seems to be prominant one,Best he grabs the dough and goes offshore,he has no family(not sure how whacko his aunties/uncles are)here.

Mind you if he gets compo say $3million,hope he pays some back to legal aid.

And if he didn't do it,his old man didn't,then because the cops decided DB was the culprit any evidence has gone,that means a mass murderer is about free.

[Mom]

I guess you could say we all paid our part in proving his innocence.

Yes indeed, but there is the thought we may get to pay again for the time we paid to prove him guilty.

[MSTRS]

While I personally dont think this man Baine is completely innocent...

...of what? Just what are you accusing me of having done?
Hmmmm?
Sp. Mom, sp :bleh:

[Mom]

...of what? Just what are you accusing me of having done?
Hmmmm?
Sp. Mom, sp :bleh:

:killingme <nothing> </nothing>

[crazyhorse]

I'm glad for him - never thought he'd done it - even though it was extremely controversial. Well done David, hopefully you can get on with your life now

[short-circuit]

Innocent until proven guilty. Not proven guilty = innocent.

So if someone commits a crime and then gets away with it because of incompetence by police or prosecution lawyers, they are innocent?

Yeah that makes sense.

[NDORFN]

So if someone commits a crime and then gets away with it because of incompetence by police or prosecution lawyers, they are innocent?

Yeah that makes sense.

Yeah that's pretty much how it works. So direct your frustration at the pigs.

[Grahameeboy]

those of us that have followed it since day one and know "some" of those involved have always known he was innocent..

How could they know for sure..

He was convicted in 1994 by a Jury so not sure why the Govt are at fault...he is then found not Guilty by a Jury...that's the justice system.

There will always be some doubt but enough to find him not guilty this time with more evidence which had the benefit of belated time to delve further and at the end of the day justice was served and he is now free.

I don't think you can blame the Police. They presented the evidence to the Prosecution who made the decision and at the time due process followed

[Ronin]

I'm a bit disappointed none of his family was there to support him.

Exhumation?

[YellowDog]

Maybe The Crown will appeal this verdict?

If the appeal fails, they can apply to the privi council.

If that fails, they can apply again in a couple of years.

How abut a retrial of the retrialled trial in 2015 :)

[Grahameeboy]

I guess you could say we all paid our part in proving his innocence.

What utter bollocks....how so....

[sunhuntin]

my own thoughts is his was jailed for the simple fact that given the number of dead, the police at the time were basically obliged to jail someone, anyone. the public would not have accepted a murder/suicide with one lucky survivor. so they target the most likely. in violent crimes, cops always look at family first and then work out through extended family, friends and strangers. david being only immediate family member alive was the perfect choice, right or wrong.

[Grahameeboy]

Exhumation?

Probably why he killed them.........:niceone:

[Deano]

Probably why he killed them.........:niceone:

Are you judging him ?

[Grahameeboy]

Are you judging him ?

No just mucking around...........I have no idea but the reality is we will never know the real truth....if he did not kill him I am pleased....if he did then I am also pleased that he will live with that too...

[James Deuce]

I don't think you can blame the Police. They presented the evidence to the Prosecution who made the decision and at the time due process followed

They couldn't present all the evidence. They threw a big chunk of it away once David was jailed.

[MattRSK]

What utter bollocks....how so....

Where does legal aid come from Grahameeboy?

[chucky19]

Errr, if you're referring to David Bain's case evidence was tampered with in situ ,and a large chunk of it was thrown away in 1995.

Forgive me for being thick, but Not Guilty is about as good a reference for innocence as you'll get out of the court system.

Tampered with?? If investigators have a crystal ball and can plot every step they make into a scene with no care given to finding out if people are dead or not, or if someone with a gun is still actually in the scene then they can go into a scene and not 'tamper'. Unfortunately they don't.

A large chunk thrown away?? He had been found guilty and the Court of Appeal had dismissed his appeal. The investigation happened 14 years ago and things were a lot different back then forensically. The evidence thrown away had very little chance of being useful after 14 years anyway, the DNA would more than likely have completely degraded. As with the blood stains on David they would just have been explained away after being analysed, he would have 'remembered' doing things to suit the results. Experts that Karam employed that didn't agree with his version were ignored, how's that for being unbiassed.

Not Guilty may be a reference, but it's a far cry from not being culpable.

I'll accept that you are thick, I don't know if I have to forgive you for it.

Perhaps David and Chris Kahui could start a club - I hope they wave.

[smoky]

Hey calm down there. A finding of Not Guilty is not proof of innocence

And it would be very wrong to think him to be guilty as well

generally I have found those who have read the books and actually know a bit about the case have always thought he was innocent, which is the legal description for him - 'innocent until proven guilty'
No proof of guilt - then he's innocent

You can think what you like - but at the end of the day he can call himself legally innocent

While waiting for his retrial, he stayed at my place for a weekend, I have met him a few times. had a few drinks with him and talked late into the night.
Prior to him staying my house I spoke to the police about his bail conditions, I was surprised that every cop I spoke to thought he was innocent, including one who worked in Dunedin and was part of the original investigation

[Grahameeboy]

They couldn't present all the evidence. They threw a big chunk of it away once David was jailed.

So all the evidence was available in 1994 then?

[smoky]

They couldn't present all the evidence. They threw a big chunk of it away once David was jailed.

Bullshit they did

[martybabe]

parrrrrrrrrteeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!


:laugh: He sure does look like the personification of a party animal, prolly have a quite night in with a loud jersey, some cosy slippers and a milo.

[98tls]

No just mucking around...........I have no idea but the reality is we will never know the real truth....if he did not kill him I am pleased....if he did then I am also pleased that he will live with that too... More importantly did he keep the jersey?With the advent of Trade me it should fetch a fortune.

[Grahameeboy]

Where does legal aid come from Grahameeboy?

Geeze not that old "Taxpayer" argument dude....I knew you would come back and say that...so "we had no direct input into the outcome"...

[testastretta]

I wonder if David is going to hunt down his other family members now.You know...Laniets kids?

[Grahameeboy]

More importantly did he keep the jersey?With the advent of Trade me it should fetch a fortune.

or the socks............buy one get one free...:msn-wink:

[Grahameeboy]

More importantly did he keep the jersey?With the advent of Trade me it should fetch a fortune.

Was thinking, maybe he could use the jersey to do a Persil whiter than white advert....