Cornering in sand. Stand or sit?

[kezzafish]

I'll post here so that i don't get more rap for OT threads... Not kidding at all Telli. I try to stand all day for most riding but find it's much easier to sit when cornering in unpredictable sand (maybe different on MX tracks but watching MX1 there aren't many standing when cornering at sand tracks like valkenswaard).

This is what i've been taught... What's your thinking Telli? who else does it differently?

[B0000M]

I'll post here so that i don't get more rap for OT threads... Not kidding at all Telli. I try to stand all day for most riding but find it's much easier to sit when cornering in unpredictable sand (maybe different on MX tracks but watching MX1 there aren't many standing when cornering at sand tracks like valkenswaard).

This is what i've been taught... What's your thinking Telli? who else does it differently?

i dont agree that there is a right or wrong, its whatever you can do most comfortable, quickly and successfully. typically its a lot easier to sit and turn though, but it depend what sort of turn we are talking about

[humai]

There are so many advantages to standing rather than sitting, even in the sand. Here's a few from the top of my head:

1) Standing on the pegs "decouples" the mass of the rider from the bike's frame, effectively lowering the CoG of the bike/rider rolling combo from soemwhere near the seat area (when sitting) to somewhere near the pegs (when standing).

2) Standing allows the rider to apply much more side-to-side "body english" to help keep the bike on track and in balance. You can manage small front end washouts and other issues sometimes while standing without removing your feet from the pegs, using the appropriate body english.

3) When standing, it's a whole lot easier to momentarily unload the front wheel on demand over roots, ruts and washes and other obstacles.

4) Even though it's tempting to sit when fatigued, standing is a lot more energy efficient on long rides over dodgy terrain.

There's a whole lot more advantages besides - these just sprang to mind. Others will chime in for sure.

[humai]

. . . its whatever you can do most comfortable, quickly and successfully.

That's a good call. Some guys just seem to sit more than others.

A riding mate of mine is 130KG and sits on the sumptuous cushy chair on his KX500 through just about anything, including whoops sometimes. He's not slow, so it works for him.

[telliman]

I'll post here so that i don't get more rap for OT threads... Not kidding at all Telli. I try to stand all day for most riding but find it's much easier to sit when cornering in unpredictable sand (maybe different on MX tracks but watching MX1 there aren't many standing when cornering at sand tracks like valkenswaard).

This is what i've been taught... What's your thinking Telli? who else does it differently?

stefan everts! say no more..
obviuosly it depends on the corner, in sand you want to keep the front wheel light so sitting does not help with this!
as for bracking in sand i try not to use them to be honest, lean into the berms and use your throttle for control!
my 2c worth!

[Crisis management]

Interesting issue, I stand 99% of the time but have had a few thoughts about sitting for cornering in the sand as a couple (yeah right, only a couple!) of people have passed me lately at Woodhill and their sitting for cornering seemed to work better than standing.
On the faster bits of track I don't think there is a difference but on the tighter tracks siting and being able to lay the bike over more readily seems to be an advantage...I mean laying over in the way a berm is ridden. I have to get back out there and try it out to make an absolute decision, but at this stage there seems to be a place for both methods dependant on the tightness of the track and speed.

My 0.02c worth.

[courts]

Im with kezza on this one .Sitting down for tight corners in sand is good as long as your weight is well balanced from front to back,
Standing in sweeping corners and short corners and pretty much the rest of the time over roots etc

[secondfield]

Yeah I agree, its what suits you individually.

But thinking about it, when cornering hard in sand it seems a bit more natural to lower and centralise your weight over the bike ie sit down well forward on the tank with your upper body over the bars, pushing them down into the loose, soft sand to avoid wash outs...

[telliman]

you sit back to get weight and power to the ground under hard excelleration out of a corner but once straight your back up in attack mode,sand gets wooped out so i find it hard to stay sitting !

[kezzafish]

uh oh.. this could go on for a while... you bring up the point that standing lowers the CG. This is not logical at all. I understand that your saying weighting the pegs lowers is advantageous and i agree but this does not lower the CG and you can weight the pegs while sitting... sitting in fact gives a lower CG which is the main reason i sit while turning in sand.

I will stand if i find a root that i've gotta get over so agree with that point and i pretty much stand for all other riding but find a low and stable position much better for cornering in sand

The ability to move quickly is another major advantage of standing but i find it to be not generally as necessary when cornering in sand as it's a pretty constant surface (until ya hit a root!)

[B0000M]

if its a smooth cornet - eg no whoops in it, you might as well be sitting, or if theres a whoop on the exit, ill sit through the corner then stand just before the whoop, i find it a lot easier to change the direction of the bike / use the brake / gears while sitting down. but again it depends on so many factors including speed, sharpness, berm / rut or lack of, whoops etc, firmness of ground.

some riders will sit, others will stand. at the end of the day, whatever keeps you from lying on the ground is best

[kezzafish]

this thread came from watching keithf's video of noobi riding at woodhill... have a watch 'cos it seems that noobi is dropping his bike a lot on bermed/rutted sandy corners. He also drops his bike while stationary at one wpoint which would suggest maybe the bike is quite tall (in comparison to himself)... sitting in the corners (while leant over) will be much more confidance inspiring for him i recfuck 'cos he'll be able to touch the ground.....

[honda_power]

sitting, putting one leg out and clutching

[telliman]

this thread came from watching keithf's video of noobi riding at woodhill... have a watch 'cos it seems that noobi is dropping his bike a lot on bermed/rutted sandy corners. He also drops his bike while stationary at one wpoint which would suggest maybe the bike is quite tall (in comparison to himself)... sitting in the corners (while leant over) will be much more confidance inspiring for him i recfuck 'cos he'll be able to touch the ground.....

hes dropping it cause as soon as hes out of balance he sticking a leg out, weather he standing or sitting hes still gona drop it, more so if standing!(granted),also hes bogging the front wheel so he has to much weight over the front wheel, if he was high sidding then standing would be an issue but hes not!
who said standing will lower the cg? sitting is for go slow or criusing, you cannot go fast sitting in the saddle,

[telliman]

it is fun sitting and slaming it into berms though!:whocares:
different if railing a berm though

[SpikedPunch]

I used to sit in every corner cause, uh, that's what all the dirtbike mags say to do!
I have since been cured of this ailment :bleh: and only sit (on purpose) when I need a real quick sharp one. Or when I get lazy. Too much standsitstand wastes energy I think?

[humai]

... sitting in fact gives a lower CG which is the main reason i sit while turning in sand.


No.

When you sit on the seat, a good chunk of your body weight becomes involved with your bike's pitch and roll movements. Since that added weight is all above the seat, the CoG of the mass comprising the bike and the bits connected to it (your arse) is raised relative to the bike's CoG alone.

When you are riding on the pegs, the bike can pitch and roll without your body being "connected" to the mass. You will be making adjustments on the pegs and with your arms to remain upright regardless of what the bike is doing.

A classic practical demonstration of how standing on the pegs lowers CoG is when hillclimbing. Try a hill that has good traction and is steep enough such that your bike is on the verge of flipping or "powerstanding" when ascending it. Now, try it sitting versus standing. The bike is much more inclined to wheelstand when your bum's planted on the seat. Anyone who does gnarly, steep hillclimbs regularly will know that you must try to stay on the pegs at all cost and once your arse kisses the seat and the weight comes off your pegs, your front wheel comes off the deck and you're basically toast.

[Reckless]

I stand nearly all of the time specially flowing corners in deepish sand remembering the most important thing about standing is gripping the bike with your knees not just standing, especially in sand!

I sit if

1/ The corner is so slow and tight (like round a tree) its better to sit forward weight the front a bit and flick the bike round.
2/- There is a nice berm to go into an ride it MX style.

But refering to the vid in question on those sandy tracks I'd be standing Central to the bike chin over the bars 99% of the time. Feet on a peg or both at all times. Even if I was semi sitting.
Noobi seemed to be loosing the front mostly. But he was pushing it pretty hard for the camera. Havin fun though! Good shit Noobi!

[telliman]

kezza needs to do a few laps at woodhill me thinks,yeah good stuff noobi, if your not falling off your not going hard enough!@

[kezzafish]

humai... i agree that standing is a good method and have already said that i stand most of the time including hillclimbs i also agree that standing on the pegs rather than putting weight on the seat gives you (i find) greater control however... it does NOT lower the CG. it is very simple physics which says that the lower the mass the lower the CG or CM (centre of mass)

Telliman you are speaking as if you are right and i am wrong when it really is a matter of opinion.

Booom you also said that you "disagree that there is a right or wrong way"... i never said there was a right or wrong way

I think it looks like noobi is standing up in corners then almost coming to a stop and overbalancing... his weight would be less overbalance while the bike is leaned over if he was lower.

[laserracer]

Hmmm i like to sit, then stand, then roll,and finally lay in the sand...then pick up bike and repeat :woohoo::yes:

[laserracer]

Hmmm i like to sit, then stand, then roll,and finally lay in the sand...then pick up bike and repeat :woohoo::yes:

Now mud is totaly different... i like to stand,sit then roll, and then lay in the mud before remounting to repeat:woohoo:

[telliman]

fair enough mate, didnt mean to sound condscending! your right though, different strokes for different folkes!

[L Rider]

this thread came from watching keithf's video of noobi riding at woodhill... have a watch 'cos it seems that noobi is dropping his bike a lot on bermed/rutted sandy corners. He also drops his bike while stationary at one wpoint which would suggest maybe the bike is quite tall (in comparison to himself)... sitting in the corners (while leant over) will be much more confidance inspiring for him i recfuck 'cos he'll be able to touch the ground.....

Think he was having one of those days if its the day i'm thinking of.

[L Rider]

As for riding position - i do whatever i can to try & stay on :lol: somedays its easier than others. I've gotta sort out changing gears when standing so often stuff up cause of that issue - will get there though

[crazyhorse]

One would assume you would have more control whilst sitting on the bike with legs out - But if I'm on the sand - be more fun on a Horse .....galloping faster and faster ....LOL BUt then again, that's why I ride on the road - more fun than dirt (or sand), to me anyway:woohoo:

[courts]

One would assume you would have more control whilst sitting on the bike with legs out - But if I'm on the sand - be more fun on a Horse .....galloping faster and faster ....LOL BUt then again, that's why I ride on the road - more fun than dirt (or sand), to me anyway:woohoo:

Reiterating the fact that you are indeed a pillow biter.

[Sammikins]

Reiterating the fact that you are indeed a pillow biter.

I second that. Gave up horseriding lessons and booked myself in for a Broxy rider coaching day. Haven't looked back since.

[crfchick]

As for riding position - i do whatever i can to try & stay on :lol: somedays its easier than others. I've gotta sort out changing gears when standing so often stuff up cause of that issue - will get there though
Yeah I know what you mean L-Rider! What is the trick to changing gears whilst standing up??!

[barty5]

Yeah I know what you mean L-Rider! What is the trick to changing gears whilst standing up??!

You just have to roll your foot further forward and if yah going quick enough for get the clutch i hardly ever use it changing up. And try not to look down at what your doin see lot people doin that eye on where you want to go unless you want to hit the ground.

[B0000M]

Booom you also said that you "disagree that there is a right or wrong way"... i never said there was a right or wrong way

wasnt disagreeing with anyone in particular- more disagreeing with the concept of "you do it like this and like this only"

[barty5]

I think it looks like noobi is standing up in corners then almost coming to a stop and overbalancing... his weight would be less overbalance while the bike is leaned over if he was lower.

Just go bit faste round the corner keeps the balancing act out of it. You slow down in the sand and you tend to go all over the place (less control) when its soft.

[barty5]

Guess the point is dosnt matter what your riding, what sorta track, or what sorta ground your on everyone is going to have a different riding style.

[L Rider]

You just have to roll your foot further forward and if yah going quick enough for get the clutch i hardly ever use it changing up. And try not to look down at what your doin see lot people doin that eye on where you want to go unless you want to hit the ground.

Its that moving/rolling the foot forward part that i'm scared of doing thinking i'll then crap off lol. It was not long ago though that i had to look down to change gears & think how the hell to do it, by that time i'd lost the tiny bit of speed i had so didn't need to change. One day i'll surprise myself & work it out.

[noobi]

can i just clear something up, i fell over more times in front of keiths camera than i have in a any one day at the sandpit, most of the time was just doing dumb stuff like riding into a sharp corner in too higher gear, not getting to the clutch quick enough and stalling then overbalancing and dropping the bike, and yes its quite tall and im 5'4''.
but normally i hardly ever fall off on the tracks that are part of that video. but it was just an off day really, and having a front tyre that im ripping the knobs off cant have helped either.
but i stand 99% of the time, mainly because i find it more comfortable that way, and the seat on the gasgas is like a plank!. but i am more stable when standing up and only sit down if the corner is too tight and im not going fast enough, normally i lean the bike over a bit, use the berm if theres one and power out of it.

[L Rider]

can i just clear something up, i fell over more times in front of keiths camera than i have in a any one day at the sandpit, most of the time was just doing dumb stuff like riding into a sharp corner in too higher gear, not getting to the clutch quick enough and stalling then overbalancing and dropping the bike, and yes its quite tall and im 5'4''.
but normally i hardly ever fall off on the tracks that are part of that video. but it was just an off day really, and having a front tyre that im ripping the knobs off cant have helped either.
but i stand 99% of the time, mainly because i find it more comfortable that way, and the seat on the gasgas is like a plank!. but i am more stable when standing up and only sit down if the corner is too tight and im not going fast enough, normally i lean the bike over a bit, use the berm if theres one and power out of it.

Was it that day we were out there? 2 wknds ago? I don't reckon you need to explain yourself - we all ride our own ways & we all have good & bad days. Camera's tend to catch the bad days:bash:
As for the tall bike thing Dale, look at John & his lol he can jst touch the toes of one foot on the ground - maybe a camera following him?

[random rider]

Was it that day we were out there? 2 wknds ago? I don't reckon you need to explain yourself - we all ride our own ways & we all have good & bad days. Camera's tend to catch the bad days:bash:
As for the tall bike thing Dale, look at John & his lol he can jst touch the toes of one foot on the ground - maybe a camera following him?

I agree with Joan - when there is a camera things always go wrong :yes: Hell I don't need a camera for that to happen. But now I am confused. I am really new to this and use to compete in BMX nationally and I can tell you that body positions and feet positions etc are totally different. At this stage I haven't found what is comfortable...but want to find out what is correct so that I don't get bad habits started.....any help for a very new and slightly kamakaze chick??

[kezzafish]

yeah sorry to make an example of ya noobi... we all do this shit and hindsight is a marvellous thing... Just something i noticed and thought it'd make an interesting subject for a thread but it got quite heated and opinionated (myself included) quite quickly lol...

On second watch of the video (just now) my point is less evident than i thought.... it looks like it is a bit tall for ya and your not committing and keeping ya feet on the pegs (maybe 'cos in the back of ya head you know you can't touch the ground)... please take this as constructive criticism and not a straight dis... I am a considerably average rider but try to ride with people better than me and listen to their criticisms in order to improve... the single best piece of advice i was ever given was "keep your feet on the pegs" and i often now beat the guy who gave me the advice LOL

[noobi]

yeah sorry to make an example of ya noobi... we all do this shit and hindsight is a marvellous thing... Just something i noticed and thought it'd make an interesting subject for a thread but it got quite heated and opinionated (myself included) quite quickly lol...

On second watch of the video (just now) my point is less evident than i thought.... it looks like it is a bit tall for ya and your not committing and keeping ya feet on the pegs (maybe 'cos in the back of ya head you know you can't touch the ground)... please take this as constructive criticism and not a straight dis... I am a considerably average rider but try to ride with people better than me and listen to their criticisms in order to improve... the single best piece of advice i was ever given was "keep your feet on the pegs" and i often now beat the guy who gave me the advice LOL

no problem really.
but out of all the 2 odd hours footage that was taken, most of that video is me falling off, or struggling and looking like an idiot. theres 3 minutes of video and you guys are assuming thats how i ride, sheesh, i could find 3 minutes of bubba crashing, would you assume that he always crashes? no he's the man

iv been riding for about 2 years, i feel im doing alright. iv had one lesson from mike cotter when i had my crf150f, and the most important thing he said was to stand as much as possible. dad and i were both just learning when we got bikes so we just taught ourselves.
and we have only ridden sand maybe 5 times EVER, so if i was pro straight away i would be rather impressed. i go fine on dirt and clay

from that post kezza, are you saying that i should sit down and put a leg out? how does that stop the front washing out? i hardly brake on sand so its not that causing the wash out. and the parts of the video that was reffered to when i wash out the front, every time i was standing, the and two of the crashes are from hitting a log and a stump. the part in the middle where i sit down lots and paddle, is because it was really dry there so the sand was really deep and soft, and there were some interesting hills there to, seeing as its the big dipper

i hardly ever sit down now, stand most of the time, its easier for me to deal with tricky stuff thats on the track, its easier to deal with bumps as the seat and the suspension are so hard

rant over

[oldskool]

yeah sorry to make an example of ya noobi... we all do this shit and hindsight is a marvellous thing... Just something i noticed and thought it'd make an interesting subject for a thread but it got quite heated and opinionated (myself included) quite quickly lol...

On second watch of the video (just now) my point is less evident than i thought.... it looks like it is a bit tall for ya and your not committing and keeping ya feet on the pegs (maybe 'cos in the back of ya head you know you can't touch the ground)... please take this as constructive criticism and not a straight dis... I am a considerably average rider but try to ride with people better than me and listen to their criticisms in order to improve... the single best piece of advice i was ever given was "keep your feet on the pegs" and i often now beat the guy who gave me the advice LOL

I've ridden with Noobs a lot, I think it's safe to say we're kinda like riding partners..in a Manly sorta way!!, I can safely say he is a very good rider considering he's only ridden for 2 years. We did the 90km Dam Buster/Tussock Buster ride together and I marveled at the way he bounced from berm to berm like a jack rabbit. As Noobs said he rides 90% of the time standing...partly due to the fact his height, either sitting or standing doesn't alter much his COG! He has a great and natural riding style which I envy. He hardly ever falls off and must have been pushing it for the video camera and having some fun at it. That video doesn't do him justice and I think Keith meant it as a tongue in cheek fun thing and not to be taken seriously!

[jt119]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=345INZGaZ6A
can i just clear something up, i fell over more times in front of keiths camera than i have in a any one day at the sandpit, most of the time was just doing dumb stuff like riding into a sharp corner in too higher gear, not getting to the clutch quick enough and stalling then overbalancing and dropping the bike, and yes its quite tall and im 5'4''.
but normally i hardly ever fall off on the tracks that are part of that video. but it was just an off day really, and having a front tyre that im ripping the knobs off cant have helped either.
but i stand 99% of the time, mainly because i find it more comfortable that way, and the seat on the gasgas is like a plank!. but i am more stable when standing up and only sit down if the corner is too tight and im not going fast enough, normally i lean the bike over a bit, use the berm if theres one and power out of it.doing ok in this one

[oldskool]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=345INZGaZ6Adoing ok in this one

He's a fricken jack rabbit isn't he. That's the Jolly Rooter ride isn't it?

[jt119]

He's a fricken jack rabbit isn't he. That's the Jolly Rooter ride isn't it?ya liked that ride

[vazza]

3rd round of the 2man will be there I think =D

might be wrong..

[jt119]

3rd round of the 2man will be there I think =D

might be wrong..think me and flyingcr are doing some to man thing soon

[oldskool]

think me and flyingcr are doing some to man thing soon
sounds kinky, especially on one bike?

[flyingcr250]

think me and flyingcr are doing some to man thing soon

race, two man race, it sounds dodgey when you dont put the race in there.:shutup:

sometimes i stand and sometimes i sit, i dont really have any preferance. :scooter:

taking corners i mean

[oldskool]

race, two man race, it sounds dodgey when you dont put the race in there.:shutup:

sometimes i stand and sometimes i sit, i dont really have any preferance. :scooter:

taking corners i mean
Personally I'm lazy and go for missionary but have you got yourself a bike to ride yet?...and not the town bike variety either!

[flyingcr250]

Personally I'm lazy and go for missionary but have you got yourself a bike to ride yet?...and not the town bike variety either!

yea got a bike paid for it last night. just gotta get up to the shore to pick it up. hopefully this weekend if i can get out of a few things.

[oldskool]

yea got a bike paid for it last night. just gotta get up to the shore to pick it up. hopefully this weekend if i can get out of a few things.
Cool. I'm on the shore, I'll pick it up for yah and have it ready for yah at the sandpit on Sunday... hehehe:devil2:

[flyingcr250]

Cool. I'm on the shore, I'll pick it up for yah and have it ready for yah at the sandpit on Sunday... hehehe:devil2:

ha ha ha i bet:bash:, just trying to get out of helping my bro with digging some post holes for his deck

ooooops have i gone off topic again. better stop before i get abused by the topic police:whocares:

[oldskool]

ha ha ha i bet:bash:, just trying to get out of helping my bro with digging some post holes for his deck

ooooops have i gone off topic again. better stop before i get abused by the topic police:whocares:
shhhh you might get them started...my guess is they've mellowed after their recent rant...best leave sleeping doggies lie.

But if you need somewhere, I'm on the shore and the offer stands (bike related)

[flyingcr250]

shhhh you might get them started...my guess is they've mellowed after their recent rant...best leave sleeping doggies lie.

But if you need somewhere, I'm on the shore and the offer stands (bike related)

nuff said,:innocent:

i should be sweet thanks for the offer though.

[Ktmboy]

Anyway...moving along.

I have a moto that a few have heard before and its especially relevant for the sand. "Sit down to get tired, Stand up for a rest"

A couple of reasons for standing. Humai has already talked about when you sit then basically you become part of the bike. If the bike goes the wrong direction you don't have enough time to correct its momentum buy shifting weight, forward, back or to either side. Where as if you stand then its easy to very quickly move your mass.

Generally you will find that sitting riders can go well, but not for extended periods of time as they are continually fighting the "shift". Not only that they are having to get up and down continuously for just about every corner.

I have noticed that alot of guys use too much front brakes cornering on sandy berms etc. Hell my front pads are still like new after 200 hours. I hardly ever use front at Woodhill except in the tight. Where as on a clay track and in MotoX they get a hammering.

If you are standing then its real easy to use the asre end as a rudder by dragging the back brake whilst still under power around a corner. Its something I've sort of done myself(as well as dragging the back brake over whoops) for the last few months and its paying off.
In other words I'm going into a corner hot and still carrying that momentum around. Quite often the bike is horizontal whilst still standing, then I'm all set up for the next obstacle.
Another reason for standing is that its easy to weight the outside pegs quickly from corner to corner as long as you have your feet on the pegs, ah Spiked Punch (that glue still working on your boots?)

I do however "pop" (bounce on the seat, leg out, then gas on) around tight fast corners that don't have any berm, but its buggers me after a while of doing this.

Then its back to having a rest...standing.

[Keithf]

For the record
Noobi got up (and down) one of the more challenging hills out at Woodhill without any problems at all -The Big Dipper.

He also showed pretty good balance and form for most of the 2 hours with two people chasing him around who are just that wee bit faster and on bigger bikes.

He wasn't the only one to come a gutser a couple of times either-I just use the editors perogative and cut most of mine out.

[Ktmboy]

For the record
Noobi got up (and down) one of the more challenging hills out at Woodhill without any problems at all -The Big Dipper.

He also showed pretty good balance and form for most of the 2 hours with two people chasing him around who are just that wee bit faster and on bigger bikes.

He wasn't the only one to come a gutser a couple of times either-I just use the editors perogative and cut most of mine out.

Its not really about Noobi Keith, he rides good.This is about cornering in the sand.

We are evaluating Noobi's riding in the other thread.:shutup:

[SpikedPunch]

Another reason for standing is that its easy to weight the outside pegs quickly from corner to corner as long as you have your feet on the pegs, ah Spiked Punch (that glue still working on your boots?)


Pretty good, needs a bit of reapplying every now and then ;)

[oldskool]

Its not really about Noobi Keith, he rides good.This is about cornering in the sand.

We are evaluating Noobi's riding in the other thread.:shutup:

For the record Kezza references Noobies riding skills based on the video a number of times in this thread and it is only fair that Keith qualifies the video by posting in here as it has been referenced. To Kezza's credit he apologises if Noobie takes it personally as it wasn't intended that way.

[telliman]

For the record Kezza references Noobies riding skills based on the video a number of times in this thread and it is only fair that Keith qualifies the video by posting in here as it has been referenced. To Kezza's credit he apologises if Noobie takes it personally as it wasn't intended that way.

but really, sitting down in sand??:wari:

[Ktmboy]

I'll post here so that i don't get more rap for OT threads... Not kidding at all Telli. I try to stand all day for most riding but find it's much easier to sit when cornering in unpredictable sand (maybe different on MX tracks but watching MX1 there aren't many standing when cornering at sand tracks like valkenswaard).

This is what i've been taught... What's your thinking Telli? who else does it differently?

Anyway as the thread title states and from the first post!!!(Littlejohn)

The reason for most front wheel wash outs is that by the time said rider realises that power should be applied its too late. They can't adjust their weight backwards due to the seated position.
Where as if they are standing then its easy to shift weight in lieu of throttle lag. At least it gives you impulsion to get the front up early on exit.

Another reason I drag the back brake is to ensure that I have power throughout the curve as the exit on a sand corner is the most important part.

[flyingcr250]

but really, sitting down in sand??:wari:

i like sitting down in the sand berms and just hitting the berms as hard as i can, but i always stand up on the straights and some of the more gentle turns

[telliman]

i like sitting down in the sand berms and just hitting the berms as hard as i can, but i always stand up on the straights and some of the more gentle turns

yeah same!

but leaning over and doing the same thing standing up gets the adreniline going, im not a big fan of the sand but when you get in tune with it its almost the best surface of all if that makes any sense!

[flyingcr250]

yeah same!

but leaning over and doing the same thing standing up gets the adreniline going, im not a big fan of the sand but when you get in tune with it its almost the best surface of all if that makes any sense!

yea cool feeling hitting the berm watching the front wheel dissapear then gassing it and lifting the front and sideways wheelie out of the berm

[Ktmboy]

yeah same!

but leaning over and doing the same thing standing up gets the adreniline going, im not a big fan of the sand but when you get in tune with it its almost the best surface of all if that makes any sense!

Its a buzz which ever way you do it. But recently its been a challenge to see how low to the ground the bike can get whislt still standing. Certainly gets the adrenalin factor up there.

[Danger]

Heck Woodhills so smooth I just sit 90% of the time and just about always through the corners and I tend to keep the feet on the pegs unless trying to weight the front end more. I do stand in some of the wider faster easier access trails or the MX track where the sand is softer and where weighting the pegs from side to side makes for better maneuverability without having to steer with the bars but because I try to stick to the single track I hardly stand at all.
I sit mostly and stand only when I have too and use any bumps to move me into a standing position or back into the seated position. I find that sitting and making small weight shifts that the traction is better without having to pull back on the bars which is just tiring in the long haul. When I'm standing I'm riding forward or central without pulling back on the bars and I use the power to keep the front light. For longer rides I try to stand more just to stretch my legs but for fast single tracking sitting works best for me.

[4stroke]

Its a buzz which ever way you do it. But recently its been a challenge to see how low to the ground the bike can get whislt still standing. Certainly gets the adrenalin factor up there.

the only problem ive found when cornering hard stnading up in the forest is the trees seem to get closer to your head on the horozontil plain, but then it washes out and bail anyway, i try to stand as much as posible and sit when ever i have to.

[crfchick]

You just have to roll your foot further forward and if yah going quick enough for get the clutch i hardly ever use it changing up. And try not to look down at what your doin see lot people doin that eye on where you want to go unless you want to hit the ground.
What exactly do you mean roll your foot further forward Barty? I feel like I really have to point my foot down heaps to get it under the gear lever when I am standing up (almost like there isnt a big enough gap for my foot..)

[L Rider]

What exactly do you mean roll your foot further forward Barty? I feel like I really have to point my foot down heaps to get it under the gear lever when I am standing up (almost like there isnt a big enough gap for my foot..)

Does your lever need adjusting? I'm actually not sure how my foot to lever feels when i'm standing as i'm yet to actually move my foot haha.
I have ridden a RM though which when sitting the lever position had me having to point my foot down then kinda tuck it under as it was too close for me - i think that was the problem anyway:wari:

[Crisis management]

I feel like I really have to point my foot down heaps to get it under the gear lever when I am standing up (almost like there isnt a big enough gap for my foot..)

Adjust your levers to suit your riding position...every lever, brake, gear, clutch is adjustable for position and you need to be comfortable to ride smoothly. Put your bike on a stand (upright) get on it and take your normal riding position, standing or sitting, and then adjust all the levers so they are set for the natural position of your feet and hands.
I ride standing and set the gear lever to just beside my big toe so i can easily rock my foot down or up to change gear, I have the instep of my boot on the peg and just rock the boot on that to change gear....same with the brake lever.
Get set up properly and you will find it's easy to control the gears and back brake standing or sitting, spend the time adjusting the bars and levers to get yourself in a comfortable position.

[barty5]

What exactly do you mean roll your foot further forward Barty? I feel like I really have to point my foot down heaps to get it under the gear lever when I am standing up (almost like there isnt a big enough gap for my foot..)

As the other have said try a few addjustments on levers mine are set so i can just sorta roll tilt foot forward you'll need to shift foot forward a small amount and gear shift is there kinda hard to explain. After 20 something years od it kind just something yah dont think bout. I kinds catch it with the outer edge of boot rather than havin foot right under it, Edge of foot tends to sit just to the side of lever ten it quick and easy to change up or down.

[crfchick]

That's awesome guys! Sounds like I have some adjustments to make

[camchain]

On sweeping sandy turns, no hard and fast rule for me.
Sometimes sit sometimes stand, I like full bag of tricks available as every turn always a bit different in some way; Intended line, depth/softness of sand, sand snakes & berms, size/spacing of bumps etc.

Mainly bumpiness determines my seat/stand but also depends on estimated likelyhood of holding a clean & stable line. If there's a good chance of needing a dab or gliding the size12 for tripod stability, I don't want to be standing. Often seems i can be a bit more agressive if seated

If sand is smooth enough, might not be much difference in pace between sit or stand - but then again maybe a bit better drive if meat-on-seat? (ref Humai's good description re sit/stand weight effect on steep climb)

No doubt about it though, nailing a sandy turn feet up (sitting or standing) is very satisfying. Something I like to do every now and then is to ride a whole trail (tight or open) keeping feet up all the way through. For me it really focusses attention and promotes accurate riding. Seems like the more i do the feet up excercise, the less i need to take a dab.