Cornering in sand. Stand or sit?

**kezzafish** · 29th June 2009, 11:47

I'll post here so that i don't get more rap for OT threads... Not kidding at all Telli. I try to stand all day for most riding but find it's much easier to sit when cornering in unpredictable sand (maybe different on MX tracks but watching MX1 there aren't many standing when cornering at sand tracks like valkenswaard).

This is what i've been taught... What's your thinking Telli? who else does it differently?

**B0000M** · 29th June 2009, 11:52

Originally Posted by kezzafish

I'll post here so that i don't get more rap for OT threads... Not kidding at all Telli. I try to stand all day for most riding but find it's much easier to sit when cornering in unpredictable sand (maybe different on MX tracks but watching MX1 there aren't many standing when cornering at sand tracks like valkenswaard).

This is what i've been taught... What's your thinking Telli? who else does it differently?

i dont agree that there is a right or wrong, its whatever you can do most comfortable, quickly and successfully. typically its a lot easier to sit and turn though, but it depend what sort of turn we are talking about

**humai** · 29th June 2009, 12:03

There are so many advantages to standing rather than sitting, even in the sand. Here's a few from the top of my head:

1) Standing on the pegs "decouples" the mass of the rider from the bike's frame, effectively lowering the CoG of the bike/rider rolling combo from soemwhere near the seat area (when sitting) to somewhere near the pegs (when standing).

2) Standing allows the rider to apply much more side-to-side "body english" to help keep the bike on track and in balance. You can manage small front end washouts and other issues sometimes while standing without removing your feet from the pegs, using the appropriate body english.

3) When standing, it's a whole lot easier to momentarily unload the front wheel on demand over roots, ruts and washes and other obstacles.

4) Even though it's tempting to sit when fatigued, standing is a lot more energy efficient on long rides over dodgy terrain.

There's a whole lot more advantages besides - these just sprang to mind. Others will chime in for sure.

**humai** · 29th June 2009, 12:11

Originally Posted by B0000M

. . . its whatever you can do most comfortable, quickly and successfully.

That's a good call. Some guys just seem to sit more than others.

A riding mate of mine is 130KG and sits on the sumptuous cushy chair on his KX500 through just about anything, including whoops sometimes. He's not slow, so it works for him.

**telliman** · 29th June 2009, 12:12

Originally Posted by kezzafish

I'll post here so that i don't get more rap for OT threads... Not kidding at all Telli. I try to stand all day for most riding but find it's much easier to sit when cornering in unpredictable sand (maybe different on MX tracks but watching MX1 there aren't many standing when cornering at sand tracks like valkenswaard).

This is what i've been taught... What's your thinking Telli? who else does it differently?

stefan everts! say no more..
obviuosly it depends on the corner, in sand you want to keep the front wheel light so sitting does not help with this!
as for bracking in sand i try not to use them to be honest, lean into the berms and use your throttle for control!
my 2c worth!

**Crisis management** · 29th June 2009, 12:13

Interesting issue, I stand 99% of the time but have had a few thoughts about sitting for cornering in the sand as a couple (yeah right, only a couple!) of people have passed me lately at Woodhill and their sitting for cornering seemed to work better than standing.
On the faster bits of track I don't think there is a difference but on the tighter tracks siting and being able to lay the bike over more readily seems to be an advantage...I mean laying over in the way a berm is ridden. I have to get back out there and try it out to make an absolute decision, but at this stage there seems to be a place for both methods dependant on the tightness of the track and speed.

My 0.02c worth.

**courts** · 29th June 2009, 12:16

Im with kezza on this one .Sitting down for tight corners in sand is good as long as your weight is well balanced from front to back,
Standing in sweeping corners and short corners and pretty much the rest of the time over roots etc

**secondfield** · 29th June 2009, 12:16

Yeah I agree, its what suits you individually.

But thinking about it, when cornering hard in sand it seems a bit more natural to lower and centralise your weight over the bike ie sit down well forward on the tank with your upper body over the bars, pushing them down into the loose, soft sand to avoid wash outs...

**telliman** · 29th June 2009, 12:19

you sit back to get weight and power to the ground under hard excelleration out of a corner but once straight your back up in attack mode,sand gets wooped out so i find it hard to stay sitting !

**kezzafish** · 29th June 2009, 12:19

uh oh.. this could go on for a while... you bring up the point that standing lowers the CG. This is not logical at all. I understand that your saying weighting the pegs lowers is advantageous and i agree but this does not lower the CG and you can weight the pegs while sitting... sitting in fact gives a lower CG which is the main reason i sit while turning in sand.

I will stand if i find a root that i've gotta get over so agree with that point and i pretty much stand for all other riding but find a low and stable position much better for cornering in sand

The ability to move quickly is another major advantage of standing but i find it to be not generally as necessary when cornering in sand as it's a pretty constant surface (until ya hit a root!)

**B0000M** · 29th June 2009, 12:25

if its a smooth cornet - eg no whoops in it, you might as well be sitting, or if theres a whoop on the exit, ill sit through the corner then stand just before the whoop, i find it a lot easier to change the direction of the bike / use the brake / gears while sitting down. but again it depends on so many factors including speed, sharpness, berm / rut or lack of, whoops etc, firmness of ground.

some riders will sit, others will stand. at the end of the day, whatever keeps you from lying on the ground is best

**kezzafish** · 29th June 2009, 12:26

this thread came from watching keithf's video of noobi riding at woodhill... have a watch 'cos it seems that noobi is dropping his bike a lot on bermed/rutted sandy corners. He also drops his bike while stationary at one wpoint which would suggest maybe the bike is quite tall (in comparison to himself)... sitting in the corners (while leant over) will be much more confidance inspiring for him i recfuck 'cos he'll be able to touch the ground.....

**honda_power** · 29th June 2009, 12:34

sitting, putting one leg out and clutching

**telliman** · 29th June 2009, 12:41

Originally Posted by kezzafish

this thread came from watching keithf's video of noobi riding at woodhill... have a watch 'cos it seems that noobi is dropping his bike a lot on bermed/rutted sandy corners. He also drops his bike while stationary at one wpoint which would suggest maybe the bike is quite tall (in comparison to himself)... sitting in the corners (while leant over) will be much more confidance inspiring for him i recfuck 'cos he'll be able to touch the ground.....

hes dropping it cause as soon as hes out of balance he sticking a leg out, weather he standing or sitting hes still gona drop it, more so if standing!(granted),also hes bogging the front wheel so he has to much weight over the front wheel, if he was high sidding then standing would be an issue but hes not!
who said standing will lower the cg? sitting is for go slow or criusing, you cannot go fast sitting in the saddle,