A new class EXCITING class to get bikes out there AGAIN!

[neil_cb125t]

Righto Peoples - theres been allot of talk about whats wrong with this class and that class.

QUESTION:
How many 1990 onwards PRODUCTION 250cc 2 smokers and 400cc 4 cyl ( NOT 450's )are there out there?? and How many pre 2000 600/4s and 750/4 or 1000cc Vtwins are out there. These bikes used to be the shizzle in there day now there common and cheap!!

SOLUTION: ( long winded but bare with me )
F1 and F2 are dead - and sports production is becoming more and more of the way the future is heading. The problem with that is that new machines are required on a yearly basis.:bye:$$:bye:

F3 remains, the developement of bikes can be done AWESOME!! but has been overthrown by the SV"R" strong hold - a 400cc 4 or 250 2 stroke is now useless against an SVXR ( GSXR with a twin in it ) F3 now has a 75hp buy in, thats what you need to compete - not win but be in the mix.

Proof of this is all the people who bought SVs then realised they have to spend 20k on them to make them sporty - so begged MNZ to make a class for them:crybaby:..... should i ask for a Pro 400 class??

PRE 89 is an awesome class there is so many bikes not eligible that can easily be raced!! So an idea i have come up with the FORGOTTEN ERA class.

Rules - Regs

All bikes production based NO GP BIKES, or HOME builds

FORGOTTEN ERA LIGHT BIKES

PRE 2000 250cc 2 stroke 2 cyclinder or 400cc 4 stroke 4 cyclinder machines - NO 444kits allowed.;)

bikes such as RGV, NSR, RS, TZR vs ZXR, GSXR, CBR, VFR, etc

FORGOTTEN ERA HEAVY BIKES

PRE 2000 UPTO 500cc 2 stroke upto 4 cylinder machines, UPTO 750cc 4 cylinder machines or 1000cc 2 Cyclinder machines

Bikes such as NS400r, Rg500, RZ500, RG400, CBr600f, R6, GSXR600, ZXR750 ZX7R, VFR750, FZR750, R7, 916, SP1, TL1000's and so on and so on.

there are people who have awesome machines such as 92 ZXR750R ( only 4 of these made it in the country! ) but no point in racing them in F1, so of it goes into CLUBMANS WTF!!!

what do you think?? the way to make room for it is to drop motards... but thats another argument.....

[Ivan]

a good idea.

Send it to MNZ or else itl end up on here being a comment only no action thread.

[(P)]

great idea;)

I suggested a "classic superbike" class in another thread, sort of similar to your heavyweight class.

sidecras should race at a gocart meeting anyway, and dirtbikes should be on the farm so, getting rid of them wuld give room for new stuff.

[kiwi cowboy]

Righto Peoples - theres been allot of talk about whats wrong with this class and that class.

QUESTION:
How many 1990 onwards PRODUCTION 250cc 2 smokers and 400cc 4 cyl ( NOT 450's )are there out there?? and How many pre 2000 600/4s and 750/4 or 1000cc Vtwins are out there. These bikes used to be the shizzle in there day now there common and cheap!!

SOLUTION: ( long winded but bare with me )
F1 and F2 are dead - and sports production is becoming more and more of the way the future is heading. The problem with that is that new machines are required on a yearly basis.:bye:$$:bye:

F3 remains, the developement of bikes can be done AWESOME!! but has been overthrown by the SV"R" strong hold - a 400cc 4 or 250 2 stroke is now useless against an SVXR ( GSXR with a twin in it ) F3 now has a 75hp buy in, thats what you need to compete - not win but be in the mix.

Proof of this is all the people who bought SVs then realised they have to spend 20k on them to make them sporty - so begged MNZ to make a class for them:crybaby:..... should i ask for a Pro 400 class??

PRE 89 is an awesome class there is so many bikes not eligible that can easily be raced!! So an idea i have come up with the FORGOTTEN ERA class.

Rules - Regs

All bikes production based NO GP BIKES, or HOME builds

FORGOTTEN ERA LIGHT BIKES

PRE 2000 250cc 2 stroke 2 cyclinder or 400cc 4 stroke 4 cyclinder machines - NO 444kits allowed.;)

bikes such as RGV, NSR, RS, TZR vs ZXR, GSXR, CBR, VFR, etc

FORGOTTEN ERA HEAVY BIKES

PRE 2000 UPTO 500cc 2 stroke upto 4 cylinder machines, UPTO 750cc 4 cylinder machines or 1000cc 2 Cyclinder machines

Bikes such as NS400r, Rg500, RZ500, RG400, CBr600f, R6, GSXR600, ZXR750 ZX7R, VFR750, FZR750, R7, 916, SP1, TL1000's and so on and so on.

there are people who have awesome machines such as 92 ZXR750R ( only 4 of these made it in the country! ) but no point in racing them in F1, so of it goes into CLUBMANS WTF!!!

what do you think?? the way to make room for it is to drop motards... but thats another argument.....

:gob::gob:You are sooooooooo going to get da bash from the motard guys:yes:

[wharfy]

I thought pre 89 was the "forgotten era" ?
Anyway how about just moving the pre 89 cut off to pre 99 then add a year every year to keep up ?
Maybe call it decade (previous decade) ? or Ten Years After !!

[Benk]

I thought pre 89 was the "forgotten era" ?
Anyway how about just moving the pre 89 cut off to pre 99 then add a year every year to keep up ?
Maybe call it decade (previous decade) ? or Ten Years After !!

The idea of posties isnt just old shit bikes that cant run with the appropriate f1, f2 and f3 classes clumped together, its for era's of motorbikes, and changing the cuttoff dates is a waste, nobody would bother putting the time money and effort to building a bike from that era, as next year it will not be as competitive.

The cool thing about posties, is you can develop 1 bike, and not HAVE to upgrade every year to have something that is competitive in its class.If you want to do this there are plenty of other (pretty much all) classes. This idea would kill that, which would be a shame. Just wait another 10 years till there is a pre99.

[slowpoke]

Proposing a new class is all very well but shouldn't the first step be to see if there is actually a demand?

It's all very well for a few people to say "Yeah that's great!" but you need commitments from people to actually compete before it's created, otherwise it's a lot of dickin' around just to find that people are full of lotsa talk and lil' action.

[neil_cb125t]

Well simply put this is Road racing, motoards is not a road racing class.

Now there clubs starting up motard series. which is great.



:gob::gob:You are sooooooooo going to get da bash from the motard guys:yes:

[malcy25]

The idea of posties isnt just old shit bikes that cant run with the appropriate f1, f2 and f3 classes clumped together, its for era's of motorbikes, and changing the cuttoff dates is a waste, nobody would bother putting the time money and effort to building a bike from that era, as next year it will not be as competitive.

The cool thing about posties, is you can develop 1 bike, and not HAVE to upgrade every year to have something that is competitive in its class.If you want to do this there are plenty of other (pretty much all) classes. This idea would kill that, which would be a shame. Just wait another 10 years till there is a pre99.

When you think about it...
1) Benk is bang on the mark around the cut off date and the reason for it and possibly the reason for much of the success in pre 82 and pre 89 (apart from reasonably cheap racing) is your bike does not become out dated each year. Cut offs exist for the grouping of age related racing by technology available in that period. Changing the date just allows later technology into an otherwise stable class and the inherent updating to keep up it brings.
2) Slowpoke has identified the "Field of Dreams" aspect which can create a lot of work with minimal return. It always pays to ensure the market exists before launching a new product.

Many of the bikes covered are already catered for, while the remainder are much newer and are sort of in a no mans land currently.

By the way, Forgotten era was actually originally the name for pre82.....and is still used in Aussie for their similar age group class (pre 1980 or Period 5).

Good to ideas on what to do coming out though, nothing like an NZ wide white board session to share ideas!

[Sparky Bills]

Creating new classes??
You have FAR too much time on your hands Neil. Go strip down your bike and put it back together again.
Put this time only use your left hand and your right foot to do it.

[neil_cb125t]

A way to make demand would be to remove clubmans - but that would deminish the new class to clubman status.

I believe the real class it would hurt would be F3 as all the 400s would cross over and the 2 smokers would jump on the ban wagon!!

but true - i will talk to my club....

cheers for the comments.

It's all very well for a few people to say "Yeah that's great!" but you need commitments from people to actually compete before it's created, otherwise it's a lot of dickin' around just to find that people are full of lotsa talk and lil' action.[/QUOTE]

[neil_cb125t]

Ha, yep im on my way!!

Well im sure ill be stripping down dans on friday!!

i dont want to touch mine!!! i may break it!! can i strip yours down!!!


You have FAR too much time on your hands Neil. Go strip down your bike and put it back together again.
Put this time only use your left hand and your right foot to do it.[/QUOTE]

[Sparky Bills]

Depends if you plan to strip any head bolts or break my cam caps...? ;)

[neil_cb125t]

maybe - and maybe ill find 15hp....

[Sparky Bills]

Pfffft!
Just needs a new power band :yes:
I heard the are cheap overseas. Extra thick chunky ones.

[eelracing]

I proposed a similar concept to MNZ via E-mail but along the lines of a jnr/snr class in F3 like post classics.
ie;up to 450cc jnr, 451cc and above snr.
Eventually got a response...lukewarm at best,said they would put it to the commitee.Still waiting (bit like my voting pack)but not holding my breath.

But i like your idea and would support it.

[SARGE]

I'd like to see a MotoGP (GRAND PILLION) bikes like the FJR1300, Blackbird, Hyabusa, ZX14 etc.. 2 up, full weekend kit for you and the Mrs and bluetooth helmets ...



special classes for the Gold Wings and Harley dressers

(and the knob class for those trying to do it on 50cc's):Oops:

[CHOPPA]

Before i even thought about racing road bikes the only class i was interested in watching was the class with the new fast bikes, making more and more classes for old shit boxes isnt good for racing.

To buy an old bike and set it up to race will be way more expensive then going and buying a s/h race bike. At the moment theres 3 600s on trade me that could win at club level and be top 10 in the nats for around 10k.

Club F1 and F2 are strong so it might as well stay that way.

[neil_cb125t]

Hmm interesting - so 400 4s would still be competing against 444 4s?

Its hard - i have my "little 4" working pretty well - i can get infront of some SVs but not all of them. and mines pretty ah... not standard.

just a shame that the idea of F3 is now just sv or custom built bikes, tigcrafts etc.

I also know of plenty of guys who buys an older 600 like 02-03 to go into 600ss get no where, spend a whole lot of money. the bikes are just out classed.

getting a 99 r6 or CBR for 6-8k and you would be really competitive, or you could get a ZXR750 for 3-4 and spend money on it. It just gives you room you stay on the machine for a fews years


I proposed a similar concept to MNZ via E-mail but along the lines of a jnr/snr class in F3 like post classics.
ie;up to 450cc jnr, 451cc and above snr.
Eventually got a response...lukewarm at best,said they would put it to the commitee.Still waiting (bit like my voting pack)but not holding my breath.

But i like your idea and would support it.

[(P)]

Before i even thought about racing road bikes the only class i was interested in watching was the class with the new fast bikes, making more and more classes for old shit boxes isnt good for racing.

To buy an old bike and set it up to race will be way more expensive then going and buying a s/h race bike.




there are also alot of ex race bikes sitting in garages that would fit strait into something like this class.
Choppa,what is good for racing is having a class that your "shitbox" can be raced in (in the future).

[neil_cb125t]

So what happens to your bike in 3 years......?? do you buy another bike every 2nd year?? cause if you buy a 2nd hand 600 in 2 years it will be a Shit box compared to whats out now.

"making more and more classes for old shit boxes isnt good for racing"

Watch what you say there - no one makes movies about a 600ss bike - but a 50 year old indian seemed to impress people??

This class would be to get people into racing either for the first time or back into it again. A class like F3 is good because you stay on one bike to learn the bad part of F3 is now you need an expensive bike to go anywhere.

Then they can step up to F1-F2. This is a stepping stone class. Or one that you stay on one bike and develope.

"To buy an old bike and set it up to race will be way more expensive then going and buying a s/h race bike. At the moment theres 3 600s on trade me that could win at club level and be top 10 in the nats for around 10k."

exibit A and B

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-226982025.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-226053284.htm

[neil_cb125t]

there are also alot of ex race bikes sitting in garages that would fit strait into something like this class.
Choppa,what is good for racing is having a class that your "shitbox" can be raced in (in the future).

yep yep keep that man on!!

[DEATH_INC.]

Before i even thought about racing road bikes the only class i was interested in watching was the class with the new fast bikes, making more and more classes for old shit boxes isnt good for racing.

To buy an old bike and set it up to race will be way more expensive then going and buying a s/h race bike. At the moment theres 3 600s on trade me that could win at club level and be top 10 in the nats for around 10k.

Club F1 and F2 are strong so it might as well stay that way.

That may be the case fella, but not everyone can afford a race only bike. the beauty of these classes is you could take an old shitta like my old gixxer, slap some race fairings on it and have some fun without being slaughtered by the bloody thous. IF it's set up properly, so we wouldn't have to spend $60000 like some of the post classic guys do....
I'd also stretch it to at least 900cc to let the old blades in, they were no faster than the 7fiddys...

[Deano]

This class would be to get people into racing either for the first time or back into it again.


Like Streetstock or Clubman's ? ;)

[Str8 Jacket]

Like Streetstock ;)

Yeah but that's slow and boring!!.... :yawn:

[(P)]

That may be the case fella, but not everyone can afford a race only bike. the beauty of these classes is you could take an old shitta like my old gixxer, slap some race fairings on it and have some fun without being slaughtered by the bloody thous. IF it's set up properly, so we wouldn't have to spend $60000 like some of the post classic guys do....
I'd also stretch it to at least 900cc to let the old blades in, they were no faster than the 7fiddys...

what he said!:

I'd race my rf900

[Deano]

F1 and F2 are dead - and sports production is becoming more and more of the way the future is heading. The problem with that is that new machines are required on a yearly basis.:bye:$$:bye:...

Somebody better tell them all so they can go get themselves an F3 bike. ;)

[neil_cb125t]

Yep, the problem is street stock is falling away - dont get me wrong i LOVED that class. But bottom line those bikes arent being maid any more - i bought my 150 for $900 now you'll pay over $1500for one!!

Clubby's i just dont agree with - its not a chamionship so why do we run it. :angry2: you have brackets for times to fall into so a good guy on a 400 would be ainst a sh*t guy on a R1.

This class would mean clubbys is not needed - becuase if your learning to race you buy a $3000 2 smoker or 400 and thats what you end up racing against - sole destroying 450's wouldnt be there. Or buy a R6 and stay on it for 3 years then move on.>>


Like Streetstock or Clubman's ? ;)

[CHOPPA]

Theres classes where you can ride all the bikes you talking about no need to add more classes, it sounds like you guys just want a class where you can get a trophy. If thats the case race clubmen...

If you go making all these new classes when do you think you will actually have time in the program to put them?

If these classes were actually added they would be run combined with say superbikes due to time constraints and you would just get pointed seperatly. The only difference being you can say i got 1st instead of 10th

[Kickaha]

Clubby's i just dont agree with - its not a chamionship so why do we run it. :angry2: you have brackets for times to fall into so a good guy on a 400 would be ainst a sh*t guy on a R1.


You run it as a "Run what you brung" class so people can try racing and see if they like it without having to buy a particular bike to enter a particular class, getting rid of it would be a backwards step

[FROSTY]

I propoesed years ago that pre89 should be a rolling year type class. When it was started it was 10 year old bikes--so a plus10 class. No variation on the basic rules just that as the years roll on the bikes remain only 10 years old.-or older of course

[slowpoke]

If people wanna race....they will.

If they've got a race bike sitting in the shed doing nothing they obviously aren't too keen on racing.

Most of us are only out there to challenge ourselves, do a few skids, and hopefully learn a bit a long the way. It's club racing man, who gives a fuck if your bike isn't the latest and greatest.

Most of us are never gonna be anywhere near the podium regardless of what we race so what's the problem with finishing down the field? If we have no hope of winning should we all throw our hands up and chuck it in?

[(P)]

Theres classes where you can ride all the bikes you talking about no need to add more classes,

If you go making all these new classes when do you think you will actually have time in the program to put them?


get rid off sidecrass - go race at a gocart meeting
get rid of farmbikes

[Racey Rider]

Would suit me great.
I'm looking now at where to race after Streetstock. - 125's I'd love to do, but can't balance spending that sort of money on a 'Race Only' bike.

I have a road ridable RGV250, which can only go in F3/superlites.
F3 is packed out already - The RGV won't be competitive in there anyway. ????
The only negative would be the name - 'Forgotten era' doesn't sound like something that would really Grab the Sponsors.

Racey

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

I can see both pros and cons for the idea.

I have thought about this, particularily 1st gen blades/zxr750's/SRAD's etc as I have a soft spot for these old beasts. Options are clubbies or F1. There is nothing to stop anyone from having a crack at F1. A good rider may even be dicing with some fast 600's and if you were really mad/keen you could even ride to and from the track. Sure you aint gonna win but you aint gonne be last either.

[Robert Taylor]

If people wanna race....they will.

If they've got a race bike sitting in the shed doing nothing they obviously aren't too keen on racing.

Most of us are only out there to challenge ourselves, do a few skids, and hopefully learn a bit a long the way. It's club racing man, who gives a fuck if your bike isn't the latest and greatest.

Most of us are never gonna be anywhere near the podium regardless of what we race so what's the problem with finishing down the field? If we have no hope of winning should we all throw our hands up and chuck it in?

Well said, as always.

[Deano]

II have thought about this, particularily 1st gen blades/zxr750's/SRAD's etc as I have a soft spot for these old beasts. There is nothing to stop anyone from having a crack at F1. A good rider may even be dicing with some fast 600's and if you were really mad/keen you could even ride to and from the track. Sure you aint gonna win but you aint gonne be last either.

Cue Luke Mair....

[neil_cb125t]

I have no gain from this class - i ride a zxr444 so cant run in it.:gob:

Clubmans is a bull shit class - that has no meaning as i have said form the start. I also said to remove chook chasers aka motards.

I def dont want to take away any thing from F1/superbikes. i love the LG F1 race!!

maybe this would just be an antual class that could replace clubmans and be a reasonable championship - with real rules and regs to sort out the poachers??




Theres classes where you can ride all the bikes you talking about no need to add more classes, it sounds like you guys just want a class where you can get a trophy. If thats the case race clubmen...

If you go making all these new classes when do you think you will actually have time in the program to put them?

If these classes were actually added they would be run combined with say superbikes due to time constraints and you would just get pointed seperatly. The only difference being you can say i got 1st instead of 10th

[Drew]

Why is it, that a common response to the falling numbers in NZ motorcycling, is "lets add a class for (insert some random demographic here)"?

For fuck sake, we have more classes now than ever before, and numbers are lower than 5 years ago still.

You got something in the shed you wanna ride, and not get embarraced? Harden the fuck up, and have a go anyway, chances are you'll impress people no matter how you finish.

You think Superbike is dying? I know of three people on them this year, that were not a year ago. And that's just at Vic club.

I oppose your suggestion, and would petition MNZ to do the same.

[Whitebait]

Like t3mp0r4ry nzr I can see the pro's and con's.

Good on ya Neil for trying to think up new ways to include people.

My take on it is that as a country we should be breeding faster riders not faster bikes not finding more room for uncompeditive bikes. Cool we could make heaps of classes for middle aged guys with lots of cash but what about the young fellas with lots of tallent on average bikes.

Why not homologate the classes that we have rather than adding more classes so someone else gets a trophy.

I've already experienced that people aren't happy if you beat them on average stuff............the little NSR in Posties has been ruffling a few feathers.

Yet my near stock '91 NSR is like a nifty fifty compared to your '89 ZXR450RRR............:angry2:

[Drew]

Righto Peoples - theres been allot of talk about whats wrong with this class and that class. Has there? I haven't heard much talk about classes at all.



SOLUTION: ( long winded but bare with me )
F1 and F2 are dead - and sports production is becoming more and more of the way the future is heading. The problem with that is that new machines are required on a yearly basis.:bye:$$:bye:To run at the front, you have always needed modern machinery. And racers have been broke since the inception of the sport.



Proof of this is all the people who bought SVs then realised they have to spend 20k on them to make them sporty - so begged MNZ to make a class for them:crybaby:..... should i ask for a Pro 400 class?? Not really how it went. You wanna run a formula class, you best be prepared to wank your bike. Anyone dumb enough to buy an SV of the shop floor, and think they'd keep up, deserves what they got.



what do you think?? the way to make room for it is to drop motards... but thats another argument.....

Motards, has a huge following in Europe. Why not give kiwi's a chance to learn a bit about it, and perhaps produce a big international name?


Simply put, there are not enough tracks, or enough meetings, for every bike ever sold can run competitively.

[Billy]

Well said,Couldnt have put it better myself.There are now 18 classes available too race in as opposed to 8 back in the late eighties/early nineties when the feilds were big,Go figure

[roadracingoldfart]

I would like to ask if anybody (apart from Billy ) that can recite what F1 and F2 actually stands for .
We dont have those classes now in reality . What we have are Production Superstock (or Street Stock type ) classes .
Somebody here (CHOPPA i think ) stated there is a class for every bike mentioned. Where would a TZ350 or RG500 RZ500 NS 400 fit in ?? they cant enter P/C and they cant do anygood at all in Superbike.
F1 would accomodate them in club rounds but if the idea is to get a class that can be transfered into the Nats then i say lets look into it with a clear head and if it goes against somebodys ideas of what racing is but can be good for the sport as a specticle then those somebodys have to suck it and see.

If a modern 600 was allowed to be hot rodded to fir a class it could also cross enter into superbike and be in with a chance.

There is no easy answer but i agree with looking at the possibility of creating a new class especially if it combines an existing class to make the grids a bit fuller. F3 would be considerably smaller without Pro Twins combined but if Pro Twins were in a smaller supersport race then they would be in good even company.
But really , what the fuck would i know anyhow.

[koba]

I am going to propose an NC21 only class to Vic Club Next year.

I have seen heaps go for under 2 grand on trademe, they seem to have crept up a bit in asking price latley but it is still generally sub 3k for a realistic price.

Seriously tho Neil, Good on you for thinking of ways to futher the sport and all that but I just don't think its a great idea.

[Drew]

But really , what the fuck would i know anyhow.

When it comes to putting together a season of events, what would you know bro? That's not a dig.

You have raced a long time, what's missing now, that wasn't in the hay day? More classes?

[koba]

RGV250, which can only go in F3/superlites.
F3 is packed out already - The RGV won't be competitive in there anyway. ????[/COLOR]

Only one way to find out!
I think you would get along on it OK at least.






Good on ya Neil for trying to think up new ways to include people.

Like motards and Clubmans racers?


Yep, the problem is street stock is falling away - dont get me wrong i LOVED that class. But bottom line those bikes arent being maid any more - i bought my 150 for $900 now you'll pay over $1500for one!!


$1500 :gob: a competitive race bike for a grand and a half? however will road racing survive in New Zealand!

Seriously again tho, thats still cheap as shit with cheap running costs and good steady resale value. (if you don't fuck it)



You got something in the shed you wanna ride, and not get embarraced? Harden the fuck up, and have a go anyway, chances are you'll impress people no matter how you finish.


Aye!
After streetstock I'm going to give the VFR a good thrashing, I'm under no illusions that it is going to be a slow bike.
The race for me is going to be against other bike/rider combos of similar speed. If I beat a ZXR on radials I'm going to have quite a celebatory time.

[Kickaha]

Where would a TZ350 or RG500 RZ500 NS 400 fit in ?? they cant enter P/C and they cant do anygood at all in Superbike.

All those bikes you mention are Post classic Pre82/89 eligible and a class is run at Vic Club (and others) the NZPCRA also run their own yearly GP meeting

[lostinflyz]

i suggest taking this to the vic club or similar and get it running at club meets. its aimed at club racers and outside nationals who cares what mnz thinks about it.

ive often thought a pre 00 class would be good but itd become dated and prob still lead to eventual bitching. i wonder how hard it would be to set up a class based solely on weight. basically take a engine capacity and give it a minimum weight. kitchen scales and bob's your uncle. you could race anything but if the weights were set to bias against newer machinery itd be cool. just an idea. i love watchin racing with the nimble wee bike vs the grunty bastard.

[roadracingoldfart]

All those bikes you mention are Post classic Pre82/89 eligible and a class is run at Vic Club (and others) the NZPCRA also run their own yearly GP meeting



So you are saying i can race a 4 cylinder two stroke in P/C senior .

[Kickaha]

So you are saying i can race a 4 cylinder two stroke in P/C senior .


Yes, and you've been able to since Pre89 came along

[roadracingoldfart]

When it comes to putting together a season of events, what would you know bro? That's not a dig.

You have raced a long time, what's missing now, that wasn't in the hay day? More classes?


Its not taken as a dig but .... i dont understand the question Drew.

I have been deeply involved in seasons race programs in the past as a committe member and as a compettitor , now im doing it as a mentor .
Whats missing now is a hard question to answer , if in fact there is anything missing .
We had more clubs running events in the " Hay Days ", Vic Club , Hvmcc , Kapiti , Masterton etc and thats just in the Welly area , plus we had riders that only did select types of meetings only , it may have been Street meets , endurance, or proddy , or Formula classes . Then you had the likes of Rob Holden that did them all but he was a freak. So there wasnt overfull meetings due to the certain niche we all fitted into.
There was even car clubs that had bike sessions during thier racing and that was kind of cool (if the antifreeze didnt get you) .

[CHOPPA]

.
Somebody here (CHOPPA i think ) stated there is a class for every bike mentioned. Where would a TZ350 or RG500 RZ500 NS 400 fit in ?? they cant enter P/C and they cant do anygood at all in Superbike. a .

Thats my point, theres a class for every bike but just because chances are you cant win then people wont race? The thing is even if they were riding Craigs bike they still wouldnt beat him.

Clubmens is a good class and its there for to get people started.

Im going to get an old kx500 to race MX, i prob wont win but ill have a shit load of fun trying.

[mossy1200]

I thought pre 89 was the "forgotten era" ?
Anyway how about just moving the pre 89 cut off to pre 99 then add a year every year to keep up ?
Maybe call it decade (previous decade) ? or Ten Years After !!
There is only 8 or 9 pre89 seniors in winter series.
Adding similar classes is just going to weeken what your already trying to build up.
Adding a moving qualify date just means you got to keep upgrading to play the game.
idd rather build mine up to get it as fast as possible then race it till it expires altogether.Hope thats a long way off.
pre 89 can get some good kit and the racings fun and not to expensive.
Clubmans is your odd ball bike and entry level before moving into classes or for those that want to race just for the sake of it.

Anymore classes and we will be doing 2 or 3 lap sprints because there just is not the time in a day.

[roadracingoldfart]

Thats my point, theres a class for every bike but just because chances are you cant win then people wont race? The thing is even if they were riding Craigs bike they still wouldnt beat him.

Clubmens is a good class and its there for to get people started.

Im going to get an old kx500 to race MX, i prob wont win but ill have a shit load of fun trying.


Dont misunderstand my post , i agree with clubmans and even rode in it myself a few years ago (Ahemm sorry ) but i had been away for a couple of years and didnt know if i could still do it , well i could so that was good, history i guess.
When i started racing i had to do B & C grades before i could graduate lol , and i failed school cert too !!:Oops: clubmans replaced that structure , sort of.
Craig is a god and i have said that so no argument there from me , riders like him are awesome to watch and Russell Josiah is going to kick a few bumms soon to on return i hope. some riders will always do well on any bike but they are the exception to the rule .
If the race licence wasnt such an easy thing to get , (all you need to do is pay money ) then the classes available would also be differant in their structure.
Surely part of cementing a good recipe is to suggest an option ?? then it can be either picked up or pushed aside. I dont see any idea as a bad idea , its just thinking aloud aye.

Just for the record , i crushed 2 fingers today under a car when a jack failed so this typing shit is such a pain, litterally.
my fingers are really really sore and im going to bed.:crybaby:

[Drew]

Surely part of cementing a good recipe is to suggest an option ?? then it can be either picked up or pushed aside. I dont see any idea as a bad idea , its just thinking aloud aye.


The option has been implimented in the past, with all the extra classes we have now. Not including Motards, that came from abroad, just as it should have.

It aint working, move on to different options.

[koba]

Surely part of cementing a good recipe is to suggest an option ?? then it can be either picked up or pushed aside. I dont see any idea as a bad idea , its just thinking aloud aye.

Very true.

Neil, on re-reading my posts I may sound like I'm being a dick.
I dissagree with the idea in the current situation of road racing and mean all comments in a constructive way.

[Deano]

F3 would be considerably smaller without Pro Twins combined but if Pro Twins were in a smaller supersport race then they would be in good even company.


Pro twins are better left with F3 aren't they ? My SV is not in good company against late model 600's at all. The speed differential is huge.

F3 bikes have potential to be faster (read hotted up) than pro twins as well.

[Deano]

Surely part of cementing a good recipe is to suggest an option ?? then it can be either picked up or pushed aside. I dont see any idea as a bad idea , its just thinking aloud aye.



To be honest, it was Neil's slagging off of SV's in post 1 that rarked me up. To suggest that they have ruined F3 is utter shite, although he isn't the only person I have heard say this. Most are little more than pro twin bikes in terms of HP - the most common upgrade is a Gixxer front end.

By Neil's logic, the 450's (and the likes of the Tigcraft) ruined the class a long time ago - ok - he is advocating they be removed as well but why get so snitchy about SV's in particular ? :angry: And isn't he proposing to "go crying to MNZ" with this proposal.......pot/kettle.

Did SV riders actually go crying to MNZ for pro twin class a while back ? Or was the class implemented due to it's success abroad, and is actually a pretty close resemblance to Tim Gibbes SV class, what, 10 years ago ?

In terms of Vic Club - fields are full and we don't get many races because of so many classes. If Neil is talking about the Nats, why suggest this new class would be for people returning to, or just starting out in racing ? They are unlikely to enter the Nats are they ?

[neil_cb125t]

HMMMM i thinks 2 things ave happened

A} not quite grasped MY TAKE of the class
B} think i want it to replace F3


SORRY NOT WHAT I MEANT:eek5:

A} i was looking for a class that is basically postclassics but up to 2000. to enable a 10year bracket of bikes to ride.

IE by the rule book mr Masons 91 NSR250 is not elligible FOR POSTCLASSICS AT THE MO!!. but suits the class perfectly.

B} F3 is were racing is at i love it, im of to the Nats - EVEN THE MISSUS IS LETTING ME!! developing a bike and growing on it, ive only just this year started feel like im controlling what the hell im doing.

The problem with posties is there is no exclusion of GP bikes - other wise we could add it ( even more classes i know ) to posties -- throwing more bike in the mix to mossey to race against either in his class or not. It would suit the way posties is - which is developing machines and simply staying within a cc rating.

[neil_cb125t]

By Neil's logic, the 450's (and the likes of the Tigcraft) ruined the class a long time ago - ok - he is advocating they be removed as well but why get so snitchy about SV's in particular ? :angry: And isn't he proposing to "go crying to MNZ" with this proposal.......pot/kettle.

from what i know....Svs were introduced - but kept fairly stock. then the rent an SV dream feel flat - causing all those who owned them to say well can we still run them. the ruling added them in but removed modding limits. It was then that 450ing was allowed for the 4 cyls to come back to level.

I will eat my words and say i think that we are nearly equal - i suppose if the GW SVR didnt exist people would not be jealous ( incl me ) of them. Its just the best F3 machine there is - i priced up the carbon rims on that thing for my machine:gob::gob::gob::gob::gob::gob::gob::

I totally agree with the tigcraft!! i dont see how it legal the first sentance of the F3 rules is The Formula 3 Championship class will exist primarily for Production Based machines.

i think i need to take a reality check as you would need to spend $$$ on a sv to get it towards a great 444cc aka a bollwell machine or ozzy 450

My idea was for those wanting to step from Street stock to someting that wasn't 600ss. a protwin bike will set u back 8-10k. a 400 or 2 smoker or old 750 half that. and thats what got me thinking.

[neil_cb125t]

ALL Gud i too am rethinking some of my posts!!



Only one way to find out!
I think you would get along on it OK at least.







Like motards and Clubmans racers?



$1500 :gob: a competitive race bike for a grand and a half? however will road racing survive in New Zealand!

Seriously again tho, thats still cheap as shit with cheap running costs and good steady resale value. (if you don't fuck it)



Aye!
After streetstock I'm going to give the VFR a good thrashing, I'm under no illusions that it is going to be a slow bike.
The race for me is going to be against other bike/rider combos of similar speed. If I beat a ZXR on radials I'm going to have quite a celebatory time.

[neil_cb125t]

Homologation..... hmm i have done some thinking about that.. why not throw posties up to 2000 - that way your 1991 nsr would be legal......you'll have to do some serious research as the mc18 was the last model made in 1989..

from what i could find.


Like t3mp0r4ry nzr I can see the pro's and con's.

Good on ya Neil for trying to think up new ways to include people.

My take on it is that as a country we should be breeding faster riders not faster bikes not finding more room for uncompeditive bikes. Cool we could make heaps of classes for middle aged guys with lots of cash but what about the young fellas with lots of tallent on average bikes.

Why not homologate the classes that we have rather than adding more classes so someone else gets a trophy.

I've already experienced that people aren't happy if you beat them on average stuff............the little NSR in Posties has been ruffling a few feathers.

Yet my near stock '91 NSR is like a nifty fifty compared to your '89 ZXR450RRR............:angry2:

[neil_cb125t]

but yes she is running well - its all possible - i knew of a Rs250 aprilia that had 75hp at the rear - that would take me for a run!!

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

All good thinkinh Neil. I tend to agree about letting more models into posties and liberating the rules in regards in regards to 2 strokes generally. The added variety would only make the racing more interesting.

Your lil rocket should do well against the other top F3 bikes but at the end of the day it is still a money game and those who spend more will invaribly go faster. Ive finally conceded to this idea.:crybaby:

[Billy]

By Neil's logic, the 450's (and the likes of the Tigcraft) ruined the class a long time ago - ok - he is advocating they be removed as well but why get so snitchy about SV's in particular ? :angry: And isn't he proposing to "go crying to MNZ" with this proposal.......pot/kettle.



I totally agree with the tigcraft!! i dont see how it legal the first sentance of the F3 rules is The Formula 3 Championship class will exist primarily for Production Based machines.


If you say that last paragraph too yourself often enough you will work it out,But let me speed up the process for you.The rule reads Primarily NOT exclusively.

The absolute last thing the sport needs is yet another class too pander to a bunch of wannabes who probably never will.If the people with these bikes really wanted too go racing,They would be already on those bikes pointed out by you in your original post.Example being Brian Bernard,Rodney Knapp,Nathan Spargo,Andrew Stroud,Jeff McLaren,Aaron Slight and a whole bunch of other guys managed too do 1.12s or better on standard GSXR 1100S/FZR1000S back in the eighties all on roadrubber and with NO fancy suspenders,Warren Turner managed 1.12s on his FZR600 F2 bike in the same era and so on.So its not that the bikes cant be competitive at club level

[codgyoleracer]

If you say that last paragraph too yourself often enough you will work it out,But let me speed up the process for you.The rule reads Primarily NOT exclusively.

The absolute last thing the sport needs is yet another class too pander to a bunch of wannabes who probably never will.If the people with these bikes really wanted too go racing,They would be already on those bikes pointed out by you in your original post.Example being Brian Bernard,Rodney Knapp,Nathan Spargo,Andrew Stroud,Jeff McLaren,Aaron Slight and a whole bunch of other guys managed too do 1.12s or better on standard GSXR 1100S/FZR1000S back in the eighties all on roadrubber and with NO fancy suspenders,Warren Turner managed 1.12s on his FZR600 F2 bike in the same era and so on.So its not that the bikes cant be competitive at club level


Yeah the "primarily wording" is the thing keeps the bikes in this class being developed & the class what it is ...the [U]very last formula class[U] around. It is surprising what you can build and for what price (see Ozzy450 for reference, - a good idea, pretty cheap but very competitve)
The Tiggy is a "special" - but in the essence of the class fits right in and adds a lot of spice.
And BTW - A good 450 - blows my tractor into the weeds (in a straightline) no question!. The SV seemed the best base unit to start with when i got into it & i have slowly added bits to it over each season (still waaaay less than building a 600 or Sbk though). if i were to do it again - i would seriously look at another option.

Hopefully we see a few more triples & trick singles, 450's and twins turning up for nationals and great to hear you will be doing them neil - nationals are the ultimate test in New Zealand and worth striving for success in.


GlenW

[scrivy]

get rid off sidecrass - go race at a gocart meeting
get rid of farmbikes

O o o... I know, I know.......

I'll put knobblies on my sidecrass - that way I can fuck off with the motards and race in the dirt! :woohoo:

Really, thinking about it, it might just work - afterall, I am a dirty bastard!!! ;)

[scrivy]

get rid off sidecrass - go race at a gocart meeting
get rid of farmbikes

oh, (p), dont forget to also get rid of the F3 bikes - they can race with the buckets,
and F1 can race with the World Superbikes,
Clubmans can just race on the road,
and F2..... well, they can run with the new MotoGP2 class.

Right, that's the dwindling Nationals f@cked!

Time to go racing in the bigger Tri-Series!!! :rockon::woohoo: Yeeha!!

Or am I missing your point??????

[Whitebait]

Homologation..... hmm i have done some thinking about that.. why not throw posties up to 2000 - that way your 1991 nsr would be legal......you'll have to do some serious research as the mc18 was the last model made in 1989..

from what i could find.

Your right the MC18 was made in 1989 but the MC21 was released in 1989 as the new model for 1990.

I have done my research and my friend in Japan (Who works for one one of the largest bike shop's) has verified this for me.

I know it's off topic but how many different variations of ZXR and VFR are there??

The NSR got slower as it got newer.........the MC18 had 4 mor HP than the MC21.............4HP..........thats almost as much most of the suzuki's have........:eek5:

[koba]

Example being Brian Bernard,Rodney Knapp,Nathan Spargo,Andrew Stroud,Jeff McLaren,Aaron Slight and a whole bunch of other guys managed too do 1.12s or better on standard GSXR 1100S/FZR1000S back in the eighties all on roadrubber and with NO fancy suspenders,Warren Turner managed 1.12s on his FZR600 F2 bike in the same era and so on.So its not that the bikes cant be competitive at club level

Damn thats fast!


Yeah the "primarily wording" is the thing keeps the bikes in this class being developed & the class what it is ...the [U]very last formula class[U] around.


Hey, don't forget F4 and 5! :woohoo:



The Tiggy is a "special" - but in the essence of the class fits right in and adds a lot of spice.
The variety is what makes Formula 3 an awesome class.

[Robert Taylor]

If you say that last paragraph too yourself often enough you will work it out,But let me speed up the process for you.The rule reads Primarily NOT exclusively.

The absolute last thing the sport needs is yet another class too pander to a bunch of wannabes who probably never will.If the people with these bikes really wanted too go racing,They would be already on those bikes pointed out by you in your original post.Example being Brian Bernard,Rodney Knapp,Nathan Spargo,Andrew Stroud,Jeff McLaren,Aaron Slight and a whole bunch of other guys managed too do 1.12s or better on standard GSXR 1100S/FZR1000S back in the eighties all on roadrubber and with NO fancy suspenders,Warren Turner managed 1.12s on his FZR600 F2 bike in the same era and so on.So its not that the bikes cant be competitive at club level

The difference beween 12s and 6s is 6 seconds per lap, 6 seconds per lap is like the difference between the 19th century and the 21st century. Its achieved by much better frames, wider and stickier tyres, much more horsepower and those ''fancy suspenders'' that some love to denigrate. ITS CALLED PROGRESS!!!!

Try running stock suspension on a 160bhp out of the box 1000cc class machine and see how long it takes to burn up the tyres, also evidence the visible pitch control issues.

Each to their own, if people want to run stock suspension let them, if they want to run ''fancy suspenders'' let them. Just dont let the politics of envy intervene.

[Robert Taylor]

oh, (p), dont forget to also get rid of the F3 bikes - they can race with the buckets,
and F1 can race with the World Superbikes,
Clubmans can just race on the road,
and F2..... well, they can run with the new MotoGP2 class.

Right, that's the dwindling Nationals f@cked!

Time to go racing in the bigger Tri-Series!!! :rockon::woohoo: Yeeha!!

Or am I missing your point??????

Scrivvy I think your series demonstrates very clearly that the Nationals is actually not so much about diluting the allowable machine specification. Its more about the costs of travel, accomodation and time away etc.
Your format appears to have hit the nail on the head of how a series should be organised and how to attract numbers. That Suzuki NZ is now majorly backing it is a strong indicator and also is a none too subtle reminder that MNZ has got a lot of mending to do re relationships with the main distributors.

[Drew]

Example being Brian Bernard,Rodney Knapp,Nathan Spargo,Andrew Stroud,Jeff McLaren,Aaron Slight and a whole bunch of other guys managed too do 1.12s or better on standard GSXR 1100S/FZR1000S back in the eighties all on roadrubber and with NO fancy suspenders,Warren Turner managed 1.12s on his FZR600 F2 bike in the same era and so on.So its not that the bikes cant be competitive at club level

To be fair though mate, Manfield was quite a different track then. There were no joins in the seal to begin with, or pot holes around the braking point for Higgins. Those same guys with head wrapped around current machines with flash suspension, on the track like it was then, I'm pretty sure would be around the minute mark.

[Billy]

To be fair though mate, Manfield was quite a different track then. There were no joins in the seal to begin with, or pot holes around the braking point for Higgins. Those same guys with head wrapped around current machines with flash suspension, on the track like it was then, I'm pretty sure would be around the minute mark.

I would disagree with you RE the track condition as would most people who were riding back then.However I would agree the rest of your post.You would be right on the mark,But the point I was making was those bikes are still capable in the right hands with a bit of fettling at club level rather than starting a whole new class as was suggested by the thread originator

[Deano]

Homologation..... hmm i have done some thinking about that.. why not throw posties up to 2000 - that way your 1991 nsr would be legal......you'll have to do some serious research as the mc18 was the last model made in 1989..

from what i could find.


but yes she is running well - its all possible - i knew of a Rs250 aprilia that had 75hp at the rear - that would take me for a run!!

So how would the 91 NSR go against a 99 Aprilia ? If the differential is a lot...and I'm guessing it is, won't you need yet another class ?

[Billy]

The difference beween 12s and 6s is 6 seconds per lap, 6 seconds per lap is like the difference between the 19th century and the 21st century. Its achieved by much better frames, wider and stickier tyres, much more horsepower and those ''fancy suspenders'' that some love to denigrate. ITS CALLED PROGRESS!!!!

Try running stock suspension on a 160bhp out of the box 1000cc class machine and see how long it takes to burn up the tyres, also evidence the visible pitch control issues.

Each to their own, if people want to run stock suspension let them, if they want to run ''fancy suspenders'' let them. Just dont let the politics of envy intervene.

And WTF has any of that got to do with needing a new class at club level for bikes that are capable in the right hands ????

[Robert Taylor]

And WTF has any of that got to do with needing a new class at club level for bikes that are capable in the right hands ????

It was about the inference and I felt that some clarification was required. Just being picky, nothing more.

[Whitebait]

So how would the 91 NSR go against a 99 Aprilia ? If the differential is a lot...and I'm guessing it is, won't you need yet another class ?

A good '91 NSR V's a good '99 Prilia would be a fair match.

The Aprilia 250 has some nice stuff on it USD forks and stuff but the motors were based on RGV250 motors...........so they're never gonna match the far more advanced Honda engine.

I don't know why they called them a RS250 we all know what the real RS250 is.

Surely we all know why Robert Taylor wants every class to have unrestricted suspension............"Exclusive NZ distributor for Ohlins Racing AB Sweden

Master Race Tech Centre for NZ"...........anyone else pick up on that???

[Deano]

A good '91 NSR V's a good '99 Prilia would be a fair match.

The Aprilia 250 has some nice stuff on it USD forks and stuff but the motors were based on RGV250 motors...........so they're never gonna match the far more advanced Honda engine.



Really - I thought a 99 Prilla would eat a 91 2 stroke ? You sound like a man after my own heart. I lurve NSR's. My 86 NSR was as quick as an 89 RGV but I thought it was just down to the pilot. ;)

How about a 91 CBR400 vs a 99 CBR400 ? Is there that little difference across the spectrum of bikes in 8 years that they would all be competitive against one another ?

I mean, Luke Mair did bloody well on a 96 SRAD 750 to finish top 15 in SBK, but that was definitely down to the pilot. Given a 2006, he would have been a shoe in for top 10 and very likely higher.

[KS34]

Quote:Surely we all know why Robert Taylor wants every class to have unrestricted suspension............"Exclusive NZ distributor for Ohlins Racing AB Sweden

Master Race Tech Centre for NZ"...........anyone else pick up on that???Quote:

What is it with the constent bashing of Robert Taylors opinions. We all know what he does! If you were in his position (from a knowledge point of veiw) and people were banging on about using standard stuff that wont cut the mustard for alot of reasons, would you just sit down and shut up? I would not. And dont forget the man puts alot of free time and info into the sport! Do you know any other sport that has a supplier of the top kit giving away free time and info even if you dont use his product, or offer a cheaper solution. I am not RT's PR man but give the "pushing product" shit a rest, in my opinion CKT and RT are far too valuable in this sport to take cheap shots. Watch what happens to the sport if he changes his business from passion based to running it for the dollar!

[Deano]

What is it with the constent bashing of Robert Taylors opinions. We all know what he does! If you were in his position (from a knowledge point of veiw) and people were banging on about using standard stuff that wont cut the mustard for alot of reasons, would you just sit down and shut up? I would not. And dont forget the man puts alot of free time and info into the sport! Do you know any other sport that has a supplier of the top kit giving away free time and info even if you dont use his product, or offer a cheaper solution. I am not RT's PR man but give the "pushing product" shit a rest, in my opinion CKT and RT are far too valuable in this sport to take cheap shots. Watch what happens to the sport if he changes his business from passion bassed to running it for the dollar!

I agree Ken.

Robert's pricing seems pretty reasonable to me and his back up service is impeccable.

Dr Bob is also willing to share his knowledge, not just tweak your suspenders without explaining why....unlike some Dickics (sic).

Jarrod Wintle biffed an SV hard and couldn't understand why....I put it down to suspension.

[mossy1200]

I agree Ken.

Robert's pricing seems pretty reasonable to me and his back up service is impeccable.

Dr Bob is also willing to share his knowledge, not just tweak your suspenders without explaining why....unlike some Dickics (sic).

Jarrod Wintle biffed an SV hard and couldn't understand why....I put it down to suspension.

I only met the guy once so cant say i know him but I would have thought that we were lucky to have his time and knowledge around full stop.if there was no ohlins rep on hand you would be buying online and have no back up support.Dogging someone is just pushing them into a shell and he will soon start to support customers only.No free advice at all.Of course he will push his product and its most likely because he believes in what he sells.One day ill need to see him and i hope he is still around.

[Whitebait]

Quote:Surely we all know why Robert Taylor wants every class to have unrestricted suspension............"Exclusive NZ distributor for Ohlins Racing AB Sweden

Master Race Tech Centre for NZ"...........anyone else pick up on that???Quote:

What is it with the constent bashing of Robert Taylors opinions. We all know what he does! If you were in his position (from a knowledge point of veiw) and people were banging on about using standard stuff that wont cut the mustard for alot of reasons, would you just sit down and shut up? I would not. And dont forget the man puts alot of free time and info into the sport! Do you know any other sport that has a supplier of the top kit giving away free time and info even if you dont use his product, or offer a cheaper solution. I am not RT's PR man but give the "pushing product" shit a rest, in my opinion CKT and RT are far too valuable in this sport to take cheap shots. Watch what happens to the sport if he changes his business from passion based to running it for the dollar!

I wasn't BASHING..........sorry Robert if it sounded that way!
I've bought bits from him in the past and will buy bits in the future.

I just thought it was funny!

It's a rough time of year down these ways.........the outdoors runs out and we move into the more potent indoor stuff.........:doobey:

Re: Deano

I've yet to meet a RS250 on the track that I could compare my bike against I had a good run with a late model RGV and it was pretty even but that was before my bike got the HRC cataloge chucked at it.......:eek5:

[roadracingoldfart]

The difference beween 12s and 6s is 6 seconds per lap, 6 seconds per lap is like the difference between the 19th century and the 21st century. Its achieved by much better frames, wider and stickier tyres, much more horsepower and those ''fancy suspenders'' that some love to denigrate. ITS CALLED PROGRESS!!!!

Try running stock suspension on a 160bhp out of the box 1000cc class machine and see how long it takes to burn up the tyres, also evidence the visible pitch control issues.

Each to their own, if people want to run stock suspension let them, if they want to run ''fancy suspenders'' let them. Just dont let the politics of envy intervene.

I agree but its not a hard n fast requirment to have Ohlins or whatever under you . I have a team member that smashed 7 secs of Taupo lap times and didnt change the bike . Experiance learnt helped and yes before you state it , i suppose a further gain can be made from changing the shock etc..........

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks for the comments guys. I guess if you stick your head above the trenches and are not afraid to express an opinion from another perspective you are going to get it blown off every now and then. Some of the comment is almost vindictive, some of it good natured ( as has happened here )
Ohlins is also a victim of its own success worldwide and it worries me in fact that high quallity competitors they have ( such as WP ) seem to be getting weaker.
Ironically if ( heaven forbid ) the rules were changed to stock based suspension for all classes my business would likely be busier. But certainly not for the ''right'' reasons. I will elaborate in detail in a day or two.

[scracha]

And WTF has any of that got to do with needing a new class at club level for bikes that are capable in the right hands ????

I still think Neil's intention is bang on. It's not 'just another class to make my bike more competitive'. It's covering a lot of very good bikes over a huge age range that are currently excluded.

As for another class, how about dropping some of the dead classes?

How many pre82 bikes were at the last meeting? Combined senior + junior = 3.
The supermotards we keep hearing about? 7
125's.. 9

So if a new class can attract say...15 confirmed entrants then surely democracy rules.

I'm glad pro-twins is attracting more bikes tho'.

[Drew]

As for another class, how about dropping some of the dead classes?

How many pre82 bikes were at the last meeting? Combined senior + junior = 3.
The supermotards we keep hearing about? 7
125's.. 9

And how many Motards, and pre '82 bikes were at Pearoa, and Wanganui? HEAPS more than pre '89 my friend.

[Chrislost]

Proposing a new class is all very well but shouldn't the first step be to see if there is actually a demand?

It's all very well for a few people to say "Yeah that's great!" but you need commitments from people to actually compete before it's created, otherwise it's a lot of dickin' around just to find that people are full of lotsa talk and lil' action.

1) go to the track.
2) look at all the 400/250s that are battling away at the back of F3 / mid - front posties jnr


Id enter, i know at least 5 others that would.

[mossy1200]

I still think Neil's intention is bang on. It's not 'just another class to make my bike more competitive'. It's covering a lot of very good bikes over a huge age range that are currently excluded.

As for another class, how about dropping some of the dead classes?

How many pre82 bikes were at the last meeting? Combined senior + junior = 3.
The supermotards we keep hearing about? 7
125's.. 9

So if a new class can attract say...15 confirmed entrants then surely democracy rules.

I'm glad pro-twins is attracting more bikes tho'.
dropping pre 82 will do nothing to anything.Logic says they will just enter under pre89 entries.they will still be on the start grid sitting in the same position they would have just called pre89.

[Billy]

I still think Neil's intention is bang on. It's not 'just another class to make my bike more competitive'. It's covering a lot of very good bikes over a huge age range that are currently excluded.

As for another class, how about dropping some of the dead classes?

How many pre82 bikes were at the last meeting? Combined senior + junior = 3.
The supermotards we keep hearing about? 7
125's.. 9

So if a new class can attract say...15 confirmed entrants then surely democracy rules.

Yip,Good point,Problem being,The reason a lot of the pre 82 guys arent bothering is cause theyre bikes arent competitive with the pre 89s and as youve seen on this thread already some of the pre89 guys are questioning how competitive theyre bikes would be in this new class.Maybe thats the reason the Post Classic register has held back with the introduction of pre89.

[mossy1200]

Yip,Good point,Problem being,The reason a lot of the pre 82 guys arent bothering is cause theyre bikes arent competitive with the pre 89s and as youve seen on this thread already some of the pre89 guys are questioning how competitive theyre bikes would be in this new class.Maybe thats the reason the Post Classic register has held back with the introduction of pre89.Hang on though if you look at the front rows of the typical start grid in the winter vmmc series its 50%pre82 methonal big bore bikes.EG Shaun Donnely,Paul Brigham are the only guys that can match and beat Paul Wootens gsxr1100 or Martin Cox's fzr1000.They all run 1.16s and 1.15s at manfield.
Shauns bike is being rebuilt at the moment and Paul was at the event watching and will race round three by the sounds of it
Im not at all against fireblades and yzfs racing each other but its the tail end of postclassic that gets bumped into clubmans through not qualifing that suffers.bring in faster bikes is saying to these guys upgrade or bugger off.
Last year we had 37 qualifing with 35 avaliable as it is at one event.lack of wets could be disaster for a points contender etc.

[Drew]

Yip,Good point,Problem being,The reason a lot of the pre 82 guys arent bothering is cause theyre bikes arent competitive with the pre 89s and as youve seen on this thread already some of the pre89 guys are questioning how competitive theyre bikes would be in this new class.Maybe thats the reason the Post Classic register has held back with the introduction of pre89.

Na bro, the bikes Paul Wootan has spent longer battling over the last three years, are pre '82 machines. A Z1000, and a GS1000 to be specific.

[scracha]

And how many Motards, and pre '82 bikes were at Pearoa, and Wanganui? HEAPS more than pre '89 my friend.

No pre89 class at Paeroa. I dunno about Wanganui.

[roadracingoldfart]

Yip,Good point,Problem being,The reason a lot of the pre 82 guys arent bothering is cause theyre bikes arent competitive with the pre 89s and as youve seen on this thread already some of the pre89 guys are questioning how competitive theyre bikes would be in this new class.Maybe thats the reason the Post Classic register has held back with the introduction of pre89.

I cant buy into that logic Billy . The pre 82s and pre 89s run in the same race but for seperate points so unless you mean the pre 82 guys only want to race to get line honors it shouldnt make any diferance at all.
Paul has the pre 82s snapping at his heels sometimes so the bikes cant be called down on power or handling.
Paul Wootton would love to see a bit of competition in Pre89 senior but he has to be content with racing Mossy in his own class and Sean and Paul in another. Its still fun im sure but i also know he has reserve and more bike to develop (watch this space) .

Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

Hang on though if you look at the front rows of the typical start grid in the winter vmmc series its 50%pre82 methonal big bore bikes.EG Shaun Donnely,Paul Brigham are the only guys that can match and beat Paul Wootens gsxr1100 or Martin Cox's fzr1000.They all run 1.16s and 1.15s at manfield.
Shauns bike is being rebuilt at the moment and Paul was at the event watching and will race round three by the sounds of it
Im not at all against fireblades and yzfs racing each other but its the tail end of postclassic that gets bumped into clubmans through not qualifing that suffers.bring in faster bikes is saying to these guys upgrade or bugger off.
Last year we had 37 qualifing with 35 avaliable as it is at one event.lack of wets could be disaster for a points contender etc.


The other aspect here Mossy is that some of the Junior bikes filling the grid shouldnt be there at all (for various reasons) so there is room for more Senior bikes to run.

Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

And how many Motards, and pre '82 bikes were at Pearoa, and Wanganui? HEAPS more than pre '89 my friend.

So why ? serious question , are the motards not entering the winter series to secure the class in the program.?

Im not against motards but id like to see them use dirt like they do in Europe.
Then you can call it super motard, currantly its just dirt bikes on ashphalt.

Paul.

[mossy1200]

The other aspect here Mossy is that some of the Junior bikes filling the grid shouldnt be there at all (for various reasons) so there is room for more Senior bikes to run.

Paul.I agree that there is bikes that i would not like to class a race bike and some that are homebuilds and not 100% time piece.
At the end of the day some blades etc would make racing for me more exciting as the fzr89 motor is the same as the 96thunderace and im sure a bored out gsxr1100 is the equivalent of a 95gsxr but do we want to make it a mater of opening the wallet wider to play the game.Its taking budget racing out of postclassic and i wouldnt be happy if I raced a 1986gsxr400 and 15etxra mid 90s senior bikes rocked in and knocked me out of every 2nd event.

[scracha]

I agree that there is bikes that i would not like to class a race bike and some that are homebuilds and not 100% time piece.
At the end of the day some blades etc would make racing for me more exciting as the fzr89 motor is the same as the 96thunderace and im sure a bored out gsxr1100 is the equivalent of a 95gsxr but do we want to make it a mater of opening the wallet wider to play the game.Its taking budget racing out of postclassic and i wouldnt be happy if I raced a 1986gsxr400 and 15etxra mid 90s senior bikes rocked in and knocked me out of every 2nd event.

We need some thread convergance as this subject is now spread over 3 threads.

I wouldn't seriously propose running umm 'post post classics' with 'post classics'..

[roadracingoldfart]

I agree that there is bikes that i would not like to class a race bike and some that are homebuilds and not 100% time piece.
At the end of the day some blades etc would make racing for me more exciting as the fzr89 motor is the same as the 96thunderace and im sure a bored out gsxr1100 is the equivalent of a 95gsxr but do we want to make it a mater of opening the wallet wider to play the game.Its taking budget racing out of postclassic and i wouldnt be happy if I raced a 1986gsxr400 and 15etxra mid 90s senior bikes rocked in and knocked me out of every 2nd event.


I agree except for the wallet opening bit. Ask Scotty what his bike cost just for the engine and i can assure you its a bike and a seasons running cost for 2 riders man.
Hes not alone either but the mainstay of P/C is budget orientated and the best part is to do a hot lap with good times on a 20 year old bike.
The first Blades came out when ? about 1987 - 89 ?? they were evil shitters to ride hard but equal today with a modded pre 89 senior im sure.

Paul.

[mossy1200]

I agree except for the wallet opening bit. Ask Scotty what his bike cost just for the engine and i can assure you its a bike and a seasons running cost for 2 riders man.
Hes not alone either but the mainstay of P/C is budget orientated and the best part is to do a hot lap with good times on a 20 year old bike.
The first Blades came out when ? about 1987 - 89 ?? they were evil shitters to ride hard but equal today with a modded pre 89 senior im sure.

Paul.blades 900s were early mid 90s and in Ausy where they run pre95 and pre89 together the 89 bikes are a match to the 95bikes as with limited performance mods no bike got out of range of the others.FZR1000s were not changed much.the rear subframe changed and USD forks got added but no extra power til 1997.So we could do the same except for adding pre95 will just water down the pre89 new entries and then you got two weeker classes.In a few years time the thread will read lets drop pre89 as how many turned up at the last meeting pre89=3.
There is no shortage of affordable pre89 senior bikes about so why incourage a water down process.
i can understand the way that formula 3 riders on early 90s 400s must feel about having a bike that cant cut it with a sv650 and cant cross enter their bike into postie juniors.
I still think intro a new class as clubmans b(pre 99etc)then transfer it when the field is large enough to split juniors and seniors away from each other.
bring back champ points to clubmans.This will encourage race attitude and incentives to joining clubmans.

At the end of the day my only goal in life is to beat Paul Wooten on a dry track....

[Whitebait]

..........

[Billy]

I cant buy into that logic Billy . The pre 82s and pre 89s run in the same race but for seperate points so unless you mean the pre 82 guys only want to race to get line honors it shouldnt make any diferance at all.
Paul has the pre 82s snapping at his heels sometimes so the bikes cant be called down on power or handling.
Paul Wootton would love to see a bit of competition in Pre89 senior but he has to be content with racing Mossy in his own class and Sean and Paul in another. Its still fun im sure but i also know he has reserve and more bike to develop (watch this space) .

Paul.
Well my information source the the pre 82 guys themselves and while I agree they shouldnt want too race for the flag I guess thats just how they see it.Makes little difference to me as to their reasoning.The fact remains another class of any type is NOT needed.Club level racing is alive and well,Its National level that needs fixing

[mossy1200]

As a F3 rider who does posties as well I don't race posties thinking I'm gonna clean the class up, I do it for the track time!

We also need to remember this is CLUB racing!

Seriously does anyone care if my bike is or is not meant to be in Pre89 if I'm making up numbers??

From a spectator point of view it must look a lot better having a full grid????
to me a 89fzr and a 90fzr is the same bike just cosmetic changes and im sure plenty of models are the same.They make rules to take away our interpretation of whats acceptable.this is because by nature as bike riders we are a bunch of rule bending misfits.

[Billy]

As a F3 rider who does posties as well I don't race posties thinking I'm gonna clean the class up, I do it for the track time!

We also need to remember this is CLUB racing!

Seriously does anyone care if my bike is or is not meant to be in Pre89 if I'm making up numbers??

From a spectator point of view it must look a lot better having a full grid????

Well try turning up at a post classic register meeting and tell them that and see how many races they let you do!The rules are the rules and a lot of the other competitors in post classics spend a huge amount of time and money making sure their bikes are legal to the letter of the law and they get pissed off when someone like you flouts the rules as if your Valentino Rossi and rightfully so.MC21s were NOt released to the general public anywhere in the world pre 1990.If however you can prove me wrong make sure you have the relevant information in writing from Honda motor company,Not your mate who lives in Japan cause that aint gonna cut it with the post classic register.As a matter of fact,Your bike isnt even legal for our Formula 3 rules according to the rule book.If all the meetings were run under your way of thinking we have superbikes runnig in the supersport class,125GP bikes running in streetstock and so on just because theyre making up the numbers and not winning

[Drew]

So why ? serious question , are the motards not entering the winter series to secure the class in the program.?

Im not against motards but id like to see them use dirt like they do in Europe.
Then you can call it super motard, currantly its just dirt bikes on ashphalt.

Paul.Prolly be a bit tough, to introduce a dirt section for them at manfield, but I fully agree. Euro rules say they must run on a percentage of dirt, and I'm all for it.


The fact remains another class of any type is NOT needed.Club level racing is alive and well,Its National level that needs fixing

Here fuckin here! Look around the pits at Vic club, place is friggin packed, and every class has more entries than the nationals.

[malcy25]

Well try turning up at a post classic register meeting and tell them that and see how many races they let you do!The rules are the rules and a lot of the other competitors in post classics spend a huge amount of time and money making sure their bikes are legal to the letter of the law and they get pissed off when someone like you flouts the rules as if your Valentino Rossi and rightfully so.MC21s were NOt released to the general public anywhere in the world pre 1990.If however you can prove me wrong make sure you have the relevant information in writing from Honda motor company,Not your mate who lives in Japan cause that aint gonna cut it with the post classic register.As a matter of fact,Your bike isnt even legal for our Formula 3 rules according to the rule book.If all the meetings were run under your way of thinking we have superbikes runnig in the supersport class,125GP bikes running in streetstock and so on just because theyre making up the numbers and not winning

Billy. Bang on the mark. There is no grey! I agree with you whole hardedly. Your bike is legal for the class or it isn't. While harsh sounding, if the bike is not legal it shouldn't be there.

Imagine if a 600 supoersport racer arrived on slicks and with Ohlins TTX forks on their R6. They'd get told to take a hike on no short order. No difference I reckon should be applied to Posties.

Yep, it might mean on or 2 less bikes on the grid at that meeting. However, it will mean that you don't have 10 less bikes in a years time because people get pissed off racing burglar bikes and don't come back.

A big problem I see regularly with postie eligibility is "I think, so therefore it should be okay" and people have not done the homework. the comments about 'Blades above is a classic point. 1992, not "errr, late 80's, she'll be right!". This can have a big impact on the class and the biggest chance of disention between riders and the result further rule strecthing b everyone else.

[WarrenW]

As a F3 rider who does posties as well I don't race posties thinking I'm gonna clean the class up, I do it for the track time!

We also need to remember this is CLUB racing!

Seriously does anyone care if my bike is or is not meant to be in Pre89 if I'm making up numbers??

From a spectator point of view it must look a lot better having a full grid????

Ok yes it is a club event, HOWEVER the post classic association choose certian CLUB events (Taupo RND 1 VMCC as an example) to allocate points to the NEW ZEALAND Post Classic champs. So in reality we all have to be aware that these are not JUST club events!

If you bike aint legal, don't enter it, you will be protested some day.

There is only one name for people that 'bend' the rules, they are cheats.
No bobody would like to see a championship decided on a protest or won by an illegal bike.

[scracha]

As a F3 rider who does posties as well I don't race posties thinking I'm gonna clean the class up, I do it for the track time!


Then tell the organisers you're not taking any points, make sure you're not kicking any legal bikes off the back of the grid and stay well away from the front runners.

[Deano]

Then tell the organisers you're not taking any points, make sure you're not kicking any legal bikes off the back of the grid and stay well away from the front runners.

Is his bike not legal ? (Is a 91 any different or quicker than an 89 ?)

Why not just man up and beat him Stevey ? :Pokey:

(I could be talking through a hole in my arse)

[Drew]

Then tell the organisers you're not taking any points, make sure you're not kicking any legal bikes off the back of the grid and stay well away from the front runners.

I reckon you're taking this a tad far Stevie. If a guy wants to enter a class for fun, to see how they can do, let 'em take whatever points they earn.

If you are faster than someone else, do they deserve to be in the class more than you? (Assuming your bike is legal for said class.)

[malcy25]

As a F3 rider who does posties as well I don't race posties thinking I'm gonna clean the class up, I do it for the track time!

We also need to remember this is CLUB racing!

Seriously does anyone care if my bike is or is not meant to be in Pre89 if I'm making up numbers??

From a spectator point of view it must look a lot better having a full grid????

Where does it say the rules have to be adhered to EXCEPT for I'm making up numbers FFS. Your bike is legal or it is not. if not, don't enter whether it is Posties, 125's F3 , 600,'s F1, Sidecars. Take it home make it legal or ride in a class it is. Warren W has answered this perfectly.

So why does club racing mean you can ignore the rules?

Answering Deano's question....if a 91 is different in any way to an 89 bike in terms of the major components, no it is NOT legal. Something to think about I guess for a few riders....

[Deano]

Answering Deano's question....if a 91 is different in any way to an 89 bike in terms of the major components, no it is NOT legal. Something to think about I guess for a few riders....


That is my understanding too.

[Kickaha]

.MC21s were NOt released to the general public anywhere in the world pre 1990.

They don't have to be released, only manufactured.

[puddy]

The idea of posties isnt just old shit bikes that cant run with the appropriate f1, f2 and f3 classes clumped together, its for era's of motorbikes, and changing the cuttoff dates is a waste, nobody would bother putting the time money and effort to building a bike from that era, as next year it will not be as competitive.

The cool thing about posties, is you can develop 1 bike, and not HAVE to upgrade every year to have something that is competitive in its class.If you want to do this there are plenty of other (pretty much all) classes. This idea would kill that, which would be a shame. Just wait another 10 years till there is a pre99.
What he said!:niceone:

[quickbuck]

Heck, this thread has transformed a little......

Neil had the week off, got bored, and come up with a really cool idea of how to get my bike out from the back of a shop 1000 metres from my house, and onto a track 18k from here........
Yes, I'm sure it was all about ME!

After reading through it all and all the views....
Well Fcuk it!
Will chuck some money at it, and clean up Super Sport on my CBR600 F2......
Watch out Sketchy.....

Okay, I'll keep dreaming, and ride the wheels of my NS1 tomorrow, and report back when I have news that I beat Neil on his Yamaha Autolube 50.....

[Drew]

After reading through it all and all the views....
Well Fcuk it!
Will chuck some money at it, and clean up Super Sport on my CBR600 F2......
Watch out Sketchy.....

Okay, I'll keep dreaming, and ride the wheels of my NS1 tomorrow, and report back when I have news that I beat Neil on his Yamaha Autolube 50.....

Fuck, Scratcha was out in super sport, on a 600 hurricane. You're a shoe in by comparison.

[quickbuck]

Fuck, Scratcha was out in super sport, on a 600 hurricane. You're a shoe in by comparison.

I know he was... and I take my hat off to him.....

Actually when the other half gets her NC30, and I get the VFR800....
Well, yes, the fiberglass clad F2 might be destined for the track....

[Drew]

I know he was... and I take my hat off to him.....



To him, or to do a whip around FOR him?


He's got a better bike now, if he'll just race the bastard instead of fucking with it.

[Deano]

Heck, this thread has transformed a little......

Neil had the week off, got bored, and come up with a really cool idea of how to get my bike out from the back of a shop 1000 metres from my house, and onto a track 18k from here........
Yes, I'm sure it was all about ME!

After reading through it all and all the views....
Well Fcuk it!
Will chuck some money at it, and clean up Super Sport on my CBR600 F2......
Watch out Sketchy.....

Okay, I'll keep dreaming, and ride the wheels of my NS1 tomorrow, and report back when I have news that I beat Neil on his Yamaha Autolube 50.....

Go hard mate - nothing wrong with some good debate and light hearted banter. :msn-wink:

[quickbuck]

Go hard mate - nothing wrong with some good debate and light hearted banter. :msn-wink:

Yep, something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Rg5N_t4aM

[Drew]

banter. :msn-wink:

Enough of this gay banter. Take it to the track to sort out the debating.

[quickbuck]

To him, or to do a whip around FOR him?


He's got a better bike now, if he'll just race the bastard instead of fucking with it.

Well, ironically enough, I'm actually doing a bit of a Whip around for Neils Racing Habbit tomorrow......
Yes, true.

[Whitebait]

..........

[Deano]

How is a 1991 NSR250 not a F3 bike???? Isn't that class a progression from proddy racing or at least a merger????

As I read the rules the bike had to be made in 1989 and unless Mr Honda shat out a couple thousand MC21's in early 1990 ( which would make him a very sick man) Logic would stat that they were MADE in 1989....would it not??



Does it make it legal for 89 PC Junior ? Honest question

[Kickaha]

As I read the rules the bike had to be made in 1989 and unless Mr Honda shat out a couple thousand MC21's in early 1990 ( which would make him a very sick man) Logic would stat that they were MADE in 1989....would it not??

Possibly so but unless you can prove it then it can be given the arse out of the class

We had a similar argument a year or so ago as we could show the RZ350 was manufactured prior to Dec31st 1982 thus making it eligible for the class

to cut a long story short it is now on the list of bikes specifically excluded from pre82:rolleyes:

[Deano]

Possibly so but unless you can prove it then it can be given the arse out of the class

We had a similar argument a year or so ago as we coud show the RZ350 was manufactured prior to Dec31st 1982 thus making it eligible for the class

to cut a long story short it is now on the list of bikes specifically excluded from pre82:rolleyes:

Bloody good bikes for their time eh...

[quickbuck]

to cut a long story short it is now on the list of bikes specifically excluded from pre82:rolleyes:
.................................................. .................................................. ....

:doh:

[scracha]

If you are faster than someone else, do they deserve to be in the class more than you? (Assuming your bike is legal for said class.)

Umm... I know i've just got back from the pub but wasn't his bike not being legal for the class the point that was trying to be made?

Anyhoo..bike 555 was my bitch on the NC23 and the hurricane.


Fuck it...anyone gives me any more $hit about this then it's a fight at the back of the bike sheds.

[sinfull]

Fuck it...anyone gives me any more $hit about this then it's a fight at the back of the bike sheds.
Yay you scottish git !!! But you just wait yr bloody turn ya hear !!!

[Billy]

[QUOTE=Whitebait;1129300228]Ok not sure what set of rules your've been reading there bud.

The MNZ rulebook

How is a 1991 NSR250 not a F3 bike???? Isn't that class a progression from proddy racing or at least a merger????

250 multicylinder 2 strokes were allowed to run in F3 when the 250 proddy class dwindled.BUT with their own set of rules,Read them and then look over your bike.

As I read the rules the bike had to be made in 1989 and unless Mr Honda shat out a couple thousand MC21's in early 1990 ( which would make him a very sick man) Logic would stat that they were MADE in 1989....would it not??

If thats the case and you have written proof from Honda motor company,Then theres no problem.Once again,Read the rulebook.The onus is on you too provide proof

As a newby to the sport I'm looking for track time.....Isn't that the way you get faster??

So enter F2 if you cant provide the relevant info for Pre 89

I'm pretty sure getting all defensive over a minor class is doing great things for the sport.............:drool:

Yeah,We should just throw the rulebook away for minor classes AYE.Yeah Right!!

[Whitebait]

Yeah,We should just throw the rulebook away for minor classes AYE.Yeah Right!!

GREAT!!!! I knew you guys would come around eventually

I'll do some research and get back to ya.

See ya's on the track...............:bleh:

[Chrislost]

to me a 89fzr and a 90fzr is the same bike just cosmetic changes and im sure plenty of models are the same.They make rules to take away our interpretation of whats acceptable.this is because by nature as bike riders we are a bunch of rule bending misfits.

Some of the NC30s shouldnt be in pre 89...
Mines a 89 verison, not-so-good shock and unadjustable forks. the '90 - 93 models had adjustable shock and forks...
small differences like that tend to go un noticed at the moment however i for one would pissed if 6 un-eligable bikes were in front of me and i didnt qualify

[Chrislost]

No pre89 class at Paeroa. I dunno about Wanganui.

won $25 in pre-89.
had a sweet battle with a harley

[WarrenW]

To Whitebait.
Here are the specs for the MC21

The MC21 now utilised the PGMIII ECU taken from the legendry RC30 superbike (only now being utilised in GP250 by official HRC NSR's incidentally!!), and coupled to throttle position and gear position sensors, controls both the timing of the RC Valves, air correctors and ignition advance to give outstanding low end tractability. The PGM-III features a true 3D ignition and a different map for each cylinder.

In keeping with their racer for the road image, the famous Gull-Arm rear swingarm was copied from the RS250 of Luca Cadalora, as was the frame design. Even the mounting point for a steering damper was kept in place! The body-styling was based on the 1988 and 1989 RS250's, with just a few basic concessions like lights and a rear pillion seat!! The rear wheel diameter was decreased from 18" to 17" and widened to 4.5" to run the latest tyre profiles and compounds.

So based upon this your bike could be protested on a number of areas and sadly for you, the bike would then be excluded from the class. Save everyone the hassle and move classes before you get your knickers in a twist because someone thinks you cheat and protests you.

[malcy25]

Ok not sure what set of rules your've been reading there bud.

How is a 1991 NSR250 not a F3 bike???? Isn't that class a progression from proddy racing or at least a merger????

As I read the rules the bike had to be made in 1989 and unless Mr Honda shat out a couple thousand MC21's in early 1990 ( which would make him a very sick man) Logic would stat that they were MADE in 1989....would it not??

As a newby to the sport I'm looking for track time.....Isn't that the way you get faster??

I'm pretty sure getting all defensive over a minor class is doing great things for the sport.............:drool:

"There is only one name for people that 'bend' the rules, they are cheats.
No bobody would like to see a championship decided on a protest or won by an illegal bike."

I look forward to the protests I'm quite happy to move into F2 if there's a problem.

I'm Glenn Mason and i'll be on the #555 NSR25O at round3 in F3 and pre89 posties.

Tell you what here's my frame number MC21-1020202 so you guys can have a head start.

As for bending rules isn't that what every single motorsport does to make the best use of the "rules" set out????

http://www.dreamgate.ne.jp/NSR/general/NSR250a.html
1990 saw a huge model change for the new NSR's that went on sale from February 13, 1990. These bikes were code named MC21 from the factory and were completely new and different in every way from the earlier NSR's. ....... Besides variations in colors there were no major changes until 1993

Even in the country of manufacture, they were not available until part way into 1990....sorry. As Kickaha says, The NZPCRA tech committee have been tending towards model years where possible also, especially for brand new models which were released to the public early in the new class period. The RZ350 being excluded, they would probably take a similar view on the MC21 if asked, having already set a precident.

Some bikes in Aussie have been approved (not NSR's some suzuki's and Kwakas) from production of a compliance plate which did have the appropriate dates on. Ie Z1000J Kawasakis with a complianceplate dated 12/80 allowing them into their dec 31s 1980 cut off. GSXR750T's were the same, a very late 1995 compliance date plate was found for the 96 model for their Pre dec 31st 1995 cut off date class. If you can produce something like that it may be a help if you want to run in pre 89 and that would be the most likely cance you have.

Harsh I know, but the rules are equal for everyone in this respect and should be applied equally also.

NC30's....yes, the later bikes did have some suspension upgrades to shock and fork. The shock is not a major component like frame, swingarm, brakes, engine castings, carbs and forks. so no issue. The fork internals are open for change. If the later forks are visually indistinguishable for the 89 model forks (ie same slider castings etc) no issue. As said, what goes on inside is open and can be upgraded.

[scracha]

won $25 in pre-89.
had a sweet battle with a harley

Sure it was pre-89?

http://www.battleofthestreets.co.nz/results.asp

[Kickaha]

Sure it was pre-89?

http://www.battleofthestreets.co.nz/results.asp

It was probably "Post Classic" which has lead people to enter their Pre89 bikes when the class was meant to be for Pre82, same thing happened at Wanganu a few years back and the organisers didn't notice

[Chrislost]

Sure it was pre-89?

http://www.battleofthestreets.co.nz/results.asp

Was wanganui foo. i didnt do paeroa as i broke my arm the week beforehand

[Drew]

It was probably "Post Classic" which has lead people to enter their Pre89 bikes when the class was meant to be for Pre82, same thing happened at Wanganu a few years back and the organisers didn't notice
Yep , Sugilite and Paul Wootan ran away with it.

[scracha]

Yep , Sugilite and Paul Wootan ran away with it.

I seriously didn't know there was a pre89 at Paeroa. Genuinely thought the $hite old 400's were all in f3.

[Clivoris]

Cool thread Chappy. I need a rest after reading all that.

[Whitebait]

..........

[quickbuck]

Heck, this thread has transformed a little......

Neil had the week off, got bored, and come up with a really cool idea of how to get my bike out from the back of a shop 1000 metres from my house, and onto a track 18k from here........
Yes, I'm sure it was all about ME!

After reading through it all and all the views....
Well Fcuk it!
Will chuck some money at it, and clean up Super Sport on my CBR600 F2......
Watch out Sketchy.....

Okay, I'll keep dreaming, and ride the wheels of my NS1 tomorrow, and report back when I have news that I beat Neil on his Yamaha Autolube 50.....

Well, Well, Well....
Let's just say, despite Chappy having Brain Fade, and dreaming he was on his ZXR and running into the back of my co-pilot........

We beat him hands down!

Couldn't keep with the winners though... One of them is a rather famous name in F4 and F5 circles...

So amongst all my gibbering... Misses said, "Why are you mucking around, put your 600 on the track!"

Thing is I love to swing spanners as well......
Dilemma!!

Oh, and I feel like I've played a full game of Rugby.... Is that normal? ;)

[malcy25]

..........................:clap:

There's "marketing speak" and then there is reality. I've seen a lot of marketing speak about stuff being copies from the racer and it ain't worth shit when you actually look at it. RZ500 anyone? Roberts replica, what a crock!!!!

if you wanted to run an MC21 in pre 89 stating it is a replica of Cornu or Roth's NSR250 GP bike you (not anyone else) need to provide categorical evidence that the major components are exact copies of the 89 GP bike. These are Engine castings, Frame, swing arm, forks, brakes, carbs. I'd start with photos showing these major bits.

But I wouldn't put ANY store on the quote you are clapping about cos Cadalora DID NOT ride a works NSR250 250GP bike in 1989.....he was riding a YZR250 for Yamaha......

[quickbuck]

There's "marketing speak" .......

But I wouldn't put ANY store on the quote you are clapping about cos Cadalora DID NOT ride a works NSR250 250GP bike in 1989.....he was riding a YZR250 for Yamaha......

:Oops:...
You may be right there....

[Whitebait]

..........

[malcy25]

Shouldn't you guys be trying to encourage young fellas to be out there giving it a go...............from where I'm standing it seems a bit backwards...........:argue:

Encouraging you to ride your bike in the appropriate class. Then you don't get protested, causing up set for everyone, including, you, other riders, the steward on the day etc.

I'm all for helping out new riders and have been doing so for years including providing bikes, rider training, parts, sponsoring events, collecting people from A&E, being an MNZ steward, running race meetings, but it doesn't matter whether you are young, old, new to the game there is no "young/first year rider exclusion clause" in the MNZ rule book. In fact there is a requirement on all riders to know, adhere to and understand the rules before competing. This rule is 1-4 - on the first pages in fact so that it obvious.

Long story short is that in a close technical control class, someone turns a blind eye to an illegal bike you are:
1) not being fair to other competitors
2) but also leave yourself very open to abuse of the "waiver" by other riders who are not aware of why

Then you just end up in a downward spiral. Seen in happen, wouldn't go there again. I've been on the receiving endof teh abuse. :no:

[RDjase]

It wasn't a clap for some copy and paste quote that has no relevance at all............it was more of a clap clap for the handicap..........:clap:

Does someone want to start a pick on the NSR tread rather than "A new class EXCITING class to get bikes out there AGAIN!"

Shouldn't you guys be trying to encourage young fellas to be out there giving it a go...............from where I'm standing it seems a bit backwards...........:argue:

Enter your bike in F2 , thats what i have to cross enter in on my old 1980 RD350LC , we can have our own sub class,how does F2b sound ? and hope fully we wont get lapped to fast aye.

Rules are rules for a reason and you dont want to piss anyone off if your bike isnt eligble. the same thing happens in pre82(see the ruling about rz350) with bikes with later parts on them, I would like to see later 17inch wheels band from pre 82, i could put my TZR wheels on my LC and run slicks ,but then its not a period bike to my way of thinking. I dont make the rules , MNZ does

[Drew]

I would like to see later 17inch wheels band from pre 82, i could put my TZR wheels on my LC and run slicks ,but then its not a period bike to my way of thinking. I dont make the rules , MNZ does

And MNZ have said you can change your wheels.

[scracha]

And MNZ have said you can change your wheels.

Can you change wheels for supersport though Drew? Gawd it's all so confusing.

[WarrenW]

Glen, If you want to get personal about this, come and see me at the next meeting and we will discuss this point at length, make sure you bring a copy of your rule book. There is nothing handicapped about the rules only those that ignore them.

We currently have one tech rep from the NZPCRA in Manawatu, this may well increase to 2 people, guess who the second may be?

Cheers

[Billy]

Can you change wheels for supersport though Drew? Gawd it's all so confusing.

You can change your wheels to carbonfibre if you wish for the Actrix series,But for National points they have to be oem

[Drew]

Can you change wheels for supersport though Drew? Gawd it's all so confusing.Vic club seem to run F2 rules, so go for it. Supersport rules say no.

A Formula class, is "based on (but not limited to), production bikes".

Production class, is meant to be just that. With exceptions which I feel level the playing field, such as suspension, pipe, and power commanders.

[roadracingoldfart]

We currently have one tech rep from the NZPCRA in Manawatu, this may well increase to 2 people, guess who the second may be?

Cheers



I hate guessing games im crap at them , BUT , if there is another tech rep i hope they know what they are looking for and talking about , ive heard some shit lately !!!!! :shit:

[Billy]

I hate guessing games im crap at them , BUT , if there is another tech rep i hope they know what they are looking for and talking about , ive heard some shit lately !!!!! :shit:

Pete Sales is the local guy in Manawatu,He knows the rules and despises cheats

[Drew]

Pete Sales is the local guy in Manawatu,He knows the rules and despises cheatsI wouldn't wish the job on anyone who didn't volunteer themselves. Pretty thankless, and really open to critics.

[Whitebait]

..........

[mossy1200]

25 ROAD RACING - POST CLASSIC
25-1 Introduction:
There shall be three groups of Post Class road racing machines:
(A) Pre 72 which shall consist of machines manufactured after January 1st 1963 and
before October 30th 1972.
(B) Pre 82 which will consist of racing machines manufactured after the closing date of
the Period 1972 class and before December 31st 1982.
(C) Pre 89 which will consist of racing machines manufactured after the closing date of
the period 1982 class and before December 31st 1989.
(a) These rules are intended to ensure a high standard of authenticity and presentation of
the representative periods.
(b) All machines must comply with the safety and technical requirements as detailed
under chapters 8 & 10 of the MNZ manual.
(c) Later versions of the same models released (but not updated) eg Honda 750 K1-K6
may be acceptable as eligible for Pre 72 when competing in a racing class.
(d) Pre 72 cut off date is to exclude the following motorcycles; Kawasaki Z1 900,
Yamaha TZ and RD from this class.
(e) Pre 82 specifically excludes the following: Honda VF750F interceptor, Yamaha RZ
(all models) Suzuki GSX 1135, GSXR all models GPZ 900 all models Yamaha FJ
1100, Ducati F1 all models Suzuki RG 250, 400, 500 Gamma road bikes.
25-2 Eligibility and general requirements
25-2-1 Eligibility
The eligibility and dating of post classic motorcycles shall be considered in terms of the
major components. The group into which a post classic machine is classed will be
determined by the age of the newest component.
25-2-2 Major Components
Major components are: Frame (including Swingarm), Engine and Gearbox castings,
carburetors, Brakes (excluding front and rear master cylinders which are open) and forks.
These are to be manufactured between Jan 1st 1963 and December 31st 1989. Major
components manufactured in any country shall be acceptable. The onus of proof of
eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine.
Modifications to major components are allowed, providing that such modifications are
visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used during this period.
The onus of proof rests with the entrant or rider of the machine.
25-2-3 Replica Parts and Materials
Replica parts, major or otherwise, may be used in any proportion, provided that they are
true and faithful copies of the original components made to original dimensions from the
materials originally specified. In the event of originally specified materials being
unobtainable, then materials used must be near to those originally specified.


Its not time period racing as it was intended if you want to add your own version of what should be included.
Im happy to make mine as quick as I can without crossing any lines in the sand.If i have a doubt then i check it out.

[WarrenW]

Glenn has two "N's" just like Warren has a capital W.

Hopefully the NZPCRA will find someone who has a vast knowledge of all makes and models and isn't short sighted and can make decisions for the best of the sport.

I'm pretty over this in all honesty.

I think there are some really good buggers in road racing who really want to see it do well and have a passion for the sport. Some people seem to want to restrict the sport so that they or someone around them can continue to do well.

I'm not pointing this at you Warren, I just think some of you folk need to calm the fuck down.

Has noone else seen the No-fear shirt "Rules and bones were meant to be broken"?????

:2guns:

Apologies Glenn (Note correct speeling).
No we are not intent upon restricting people from racing. We are very concerned that the rules are followed. As I pointed out in an earlier post, the club series may make up part of a Nationally recognised title. How would you feel if someone on a bike that was not meant to be there (even at club level) beat you and this meant that the title went to someone else. I am pretty sure you would not just lie down and take it saying oh well good on him for cheating and getting away with it.

No one likes a person who breaks the rules, that's why we have prisons for. Do you honestly think the cops would turn the other cheek, like you are asking the entire post classic class to do, and let a criminal go just because he thinks he has the right to break the rules?

MNZ was formed to govern the racing and have created a good set of rules that work, mostly in consultation from people that have been doing this for years (sometimes decades) and take their time over making any changes. If you don't think Pete Sales has enough experience, he has been in the game longer than I have, approaching 40 years.

See ya at the track, hopefully entered into the correct class Aye.

[Kickaha]

Hopefully the NZPCRA will find someone who has a vast knowledge of all makes and models and isn't short sighted and can make decisions for the best of the sport.

Best of the sport or just best for you?


I just think some of you folk need to calm the fuck down.

Sounds like you need to take your own advice


Has noone else seen the No-fear shirt "Rules and bones were meant to be broken"?????

Yeah, what a crock of shit that is, basically it's advocating cheating

So why don't you put up or shut up can you prove eligibility or not?


Some people seem to want to restrict the sport so that they or someone around them can continue to do well.


And your proof of that is?

[malcy25]

Glenn has two "N's" just like Warren has a capital W.

Hopefully the NZPCRA will find someone who has a vast knowledge of all makes and models and isn't short sighted and can make decisions for the best of the sport.

I'm pretty over this in all honesty.

I think there are some really good buggers in road racing who really want to see it do well and have a passion for the sport. Some people seem to want to restrict the sport so that they or someone around them can continue to do well.

I'm not pointing this at you Warren, I just think some of you folk need to calm the fuck down.

Has noone else seen the No-fear shirt "Rules and bones were meant to be broken"?????

:2guns:
Glenn

As you will have hopefully noticed, I have been quite polite and provide a lot of information here to help steer you to the rules you need to read. But I sense you have not read closely the relevant rules or much of my previous writings here on this subject. I suggest you do so.

Refer Mossy's post at 19.22hrs and in particular rule 25-2-2 that he has cut and pasted for you out of the MNZ rule book. "The onus of proof of
eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine." How much more help do you need? It's NOT the NZPCRA tech guys that have to prove a bike is illegal, rather the rider or entrant to prove it is legal. That means you go do the work and present it to the tech guys showing why you can ride the bike.

I love how on this forum the "you must be anti progress/helping new guys" comment gets trotted out by a member when they get told that they are wrong and can't do whatever they want. Every person who has posted here is trying to help you NOT get protested. I can guarantee that will ruin your day and a whole lot of people who do not need the grief.

Shit, what would I know I've:
1) only been a lowly grade 2 MNZ steward for years which means I DO need to know the rule book and application thereof.
2) was heavily involved in the racing scene as gofer then racer, then organiser, then racer again from 1979 till now
3) raced in pre 82 since 1997
4) raced in pre 89 since 2004
5) been on the postie technical committee since it was formed.
6) provided my time and effort to help guys with eligibility problems since the first set of rules hit the MNZ rule book for pre 72 and pre 82 about 10 years ago.
7) been collecting and racing pukka race and production bikes specific to the pre 72, pre 82, pre 89 classes from little 2 strokes to big 4's since 1995.

MY final thoughts?
A number of guys have handed and received any amount of info and guidance on a plate here, but eventually riders need to help themselves also.
If the rules are to be broken, why wear a helmet (I mean it's a rule isn't it?)?
Lastly, it's not the "approximately pre 89 class". We're pretty well all over it too.

[eelracing]

As a F3 rider who does posties as well I don't race posties thinking I'm gonna clean the class up, I do it for the track time!

We also need to remember this is CLUB racing!

Seriously does anyone care if my bike is or is not meant to be in Pre89 if I'm making up numbers??

From a spectator point of view it must look a lot better having a full grid????

I have kept out of this debate coz all i could see was an ass kicking coming Whitebaits way (should of stayed in vmx Glenn)But i to would like to have a go in P/C but for the same reasons my RGV don't comply.




[QUOTE=scracha;1129299728]Then tell the organisers you're not taking any points, make sure you're not kicking any legal bikes off the back of the grid and stay well away from the front runners.[/QUOTE

Seeing as its club racing and not nationals is the above comment possible at the Vic champs???I would be more than willing to make up numbers if spots were available (legal bikes get 1st option of course) and take no points.
Why im asking is my and Glenn's only other option is F2.





[QUOTE=Deano;1129295593]Pro twins are better left with F3 aren't they ? My SV is not in good company against late model 600's at all. The speed differential is huge.
QUOTE]

If a pro twin is getting creamed down the straights then an NSR/RGV/RZ etc (thats assuming the 115% cutoff is met in the 1st place) may be getting in the way of the front 600 runners coming into the last lap if not sooner, this could potentially be very dangerous.

Anyway these are just my thoughts on the matter coz at the end of the day i just wanna get more laps in (and battles) as 2 races per meeting is not my idea of value for buck.So in that respect i don't want to see extra classes added to an already packed day for the organisers but more maybe an integration into classes that are currently not full.

[nzkr1]

Wow what a great read, plenty of emotion in them there pages... but really do we need another class, nah lets just run with what we got. I think the last Vic Club news letter has got everybody thinking weather or not their bike quailifies for pre 89. So why not create a new class, maybe not, lets just wait another 5-10 years then maybe look at a pre 99 class.
As for whitebait, how to win friends and influence people, prehaps you should shut the hell up, now everybody will be wanting to have you excuded from pre 89. At least I can prove that my bike is pre 89.

[Billy]

Wow what a great read, plenty of emotion in them there pages... but really do we need another class, nah lets just run with what we got. I think the last Vic Club news letter has got everybody thinking weather or not their bike quailifies for pre 89. So why not create a new class, maybe not, lets just wait another 5-10 years then maybe look at a pre 99 class.
As for whitebait, how to win friends and influence people, prehaps you should shut the hell up, now everybody will be wanting to have you excuded from pre 89. At least I can prove that my bike is pre 89.

Your bike is well and truly legal George.I raced 1 myself in 1988 and have piccies too prove it.Actually I sold it to a guy in Wanga-vegas!!I wonder if ???

[malcy25]

Wow what a great read, plenty of emotion in them there pages... but really do we need another class, nah lets just run with what we got. I think the last Vic Club news letter has got everybody thinking weather or not their bike quailifies for pre 89. So why not create a new class, maybe not, lets just wait another 5-10 years then maybe look at a pre 99 class.
As for whitebait, how to win friends and influence people, prehaps you should shut the hell up, now everybody will be wanting to have you excuded from pre 89. At least I can prove that my bike is pre 89.

KR1's f'n things. I was proddie racing a TZR250T in 87/88 when the bloody things came out. made my bike well obsolete - in fact Crafar left rubber marks down the side of my fairing in 88 when he T boned me at Puke while lapping me in a 1 hour race, now I remember. I remember giving up production racing after that!

[scracha]

Seeing as its club racing and not nationals is the above comment possible at the Vic champs???I would be more than willing to make up numbers if spots were


I dunno. Why don't you ask the Vic club? The point was that if you don't ask, you don't get. But at least you'll know in advance and not piss anybody off into protesting.



So why not create a new class, maybe not, lets just wait another 5-10 years then maybe look at a pre 99 class.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. Why wait another 5-10 years? By that time the 90's bikes will be in the same position as the 80's bikes (getting hard to maintain & find spares, starting to go up in price and not many left on the road).

[roadracingoldfart]

KR1's f'n things. I was proddie racing a TZR250T in 87/88 when the bloody things came out. made my bike well obsolete - in fact Crafar left rubber marks down the side of my fairing in 88 when he T boned me at Puke while lapping me in a 1 hour race, now I remember. I remember giving up production racing after that!

And you think you had it tough ...... try getting carved up on a fuggin MVX250 ya bastard lol , now thats what made me give up proddie racin and go to F2 & F3 lol.
I wish i was allowed an NS250 them days :sick: :no:

Paul.

[Drew]

And you think you had it tough ...... try getting carved up on a fuggin MVX250 ya bastard lol

Paul.

Jesus man, you sure got a habbit of fuckin about with the wrong bikes bro.

[Deano]

Jesus man, you sure got a habbit of fuckin about with the wrong bikes bro.

You getting all religious on us mate ?

[Drew]

You getting all religious on us mate ?

Didn't think anyone would pick up on that.

[roadracingoldfart]

Jesus man, you sure got a habbit of fuckin about with the wrong bikes bro.

I had a tight assed manager at the shop man .... i work with the tools i was given .
But shit buddy , i came second in some fuggin meeting on that piece of crap cause it rained and the others all fell off . I didnt have any power to loose the traction so i did ok lol.

[roadracingoldfart]

You getting all religious on us mate ?


Well spotted Deano lol


Didn't think anyone would pick up on that.


Praise be brother :laugh: :shifty:

[Drew]

I didnt have any power to loose the traction so i did ok lol.

The marketing boys called it, "smooth" I think you'll find mate.

[roadracingoldfart]

The marketing boys called it, "smooth" I think you'll find mate.


SMOOTH ,
Fugg mate , if ya got out of billiard table smooth zone they shat the rear cylinder and gave ya another job for Dusty on the leathers lol . Nasty Nasty bikes. Free , but nasty

[Deano]

But shit buddy , i came second in some fuggin meeting on that piece of crap cause it rained and the others all fell off . I didnt have any power to loose the traction so i did ok lol.

It was probably the rain and cooler temp that stopped the rear cylinder from overheating and seizing too......

[Whitebait]

Statements deleted.........Class changed...........head pulled in...........:Oops:

[malcy25]

Statements deleted.........Class changed...........head pulled in...........:Oops:

Glenn

Good man.

[WarrenW]

Statements deleted.........Class changed...........head pulled in...........:Oops:

Good on ya Glenn. Great decision. See ya at the track. :Punk::Punk:

[RDjase]

And you think you had it tough ...... try getting carved up on a fuggin MVX250 ya bastard lol , now thats what made me give up proddie racin and go to F2 & F3 lol.
I wish i was allowed an NS250 them days :sick: :no:

Paul.

A MVX250 :laugh:, a guy i know said he had a good posty bike i could have , and guess what turned up, A MVX , 16" front ,inboard disc and all that high tech V3. I cleaned out all the fuel system (had been out in the weather for 5years) hot wired it and the horible thing started 1st kick. Its there for you for if you want it for pre 89 Paul, you can relive the proddy racing days :Punk:

[roadracingoldfart]

A MVX250 :laugh:, a guy i know said he had a good posty bike i could have , and guess what turned up, A MVX , 16" front ,inboard disc and all that high tech V3. I cleaned out all the fuel system (had been out in the weather for 5years) hot wired it and the horible thing started 1st kick. Its there for you for if you want it for pre 89 Paul, you can relive the proddy racing days :Punk:


Ohhh you sad desperate prick :2guns: I retired but i still got my CBR 400rr to play on and if i dont sell it im gonna play on the road with it .

Do the world a favour and shoot the bloody MVX will you please.


Paul.

[RDjase]

Ohhh you sad desperate prick :2guns: I retired but i still got my CBR 400rr to play on and if i dont sell it im gonna play on the road with it .

Do the world a favour and shoot the bloody MVX will you please.


Paul.

Haha , i will go outside and push the horrible thing over,any thing else you want done to it lol. it realy is a terrible bike(very loosely called a bike) I just had to have go at making it run, it mite be OKish as a bucket , i repower it with something out of my odds and sods , one of the chambers mite even work on what ever ends up in it . My TZR is much more like it for pre89 aye

[gatch]

Statements deleted.........Class changed...........head pulled in...........:Oops:

Good stuff that man.

I've been doing my homework on putting together a bike to hoon in both f3 and pre 89, making every effort to comply with the specs, although at the rate I'm going it'll be next year or even 2011 before I'm done ha, apprentice wage is not conducive to racing..

[quickbuck]

Statements deleted.........Class changed...........head pulled in...........:Oops:

Good move Glenn......More motivation for me to get my bike out of your old mans shop and take all the lights off it.......

[quickbuck]

Haha , i will go outside and push the horrible thing over,any thing else you want done to it lol. it realy is a terrible bike(very loosely called a bike) I just had to have go at making it run, it mite be OKish as a bucket , i repower it with something out of my odds and sods , one of the chambers mite even work on what ever ends up in it . My TZR is much more like it for pre89 aye

Hey, wait... wait.... One of these was my first road bike... Yes, sad as it was!
Now all i have to do is prove they were made in 1982 ;)

Na, jokes....
I actually had a good run with mine. Only holed one piston (Front Left)... Almost holes a second, but was VERY quick on the clutch, and had a keen ear.. very keen/ lucky!

Oh, i did sh1t the rear after giving a few too many reves with no load on it.... crown fell off the piston.
Traded it for a cage! Shouldn't have really.....

Oh, and Jase, I figure one of those chambers will actually work well... Not the ones that have factory dents in then though....

[carver]

yeah, motards suck anyway

[carver]

look, how about a BUSA and ZX14 class with unlimited mods to the engines

[RDjase]

Hey, wait... wait.... One of these was my first road bike... Yes, sad as it was!
Now all i have to do is prove they were made in 1982 ;)

Na, jokes....
I actually had a good run with mine. Only holed one piston (Front Left)... Almost holes a second, but was VERY quick on the clutch, and had a keen ear.. very keen/ lucky!

Oh, i did sh1t the rear after giving a few too many reves with no load on it.... crown fell off the piston.
Traded it for a cage! Shouldn't have really.....

Oh, and Jase, I figure one of those chambers will actually work well... Not the ones that have factory dents in then though....

No Jokes :laugh: We are talking about a MVX :laugh: I supose it is at my place tho,and i forgot to put it in my bike list for some strange reason:Punk:

I just went outside ,picked up the MVX (complete with bullet holes, as pauls instructed last nite) The frame number is MC09 1016770 (not sure on the9) its pretty had to read by cell fone as a torch. 99UPB rego plate. Im pretty sure there 1983, See if those numbers make any sense for dating it.

[Drew]

No Jokes :laugh: We are talking about a MVX :laugh: I supose it is at my place tho,and i forgot to put it in my bike list for some strange reason:Punk:

I just went outside ,picked up the MVX (complete with bullet holes, as pauls instructed last nite) The frame number is MC09 1016770 (not sure on the9) its pretty had to read by cell fone as a torch. 99UPB rego plate. Im pretty sure there 1983, See if those numbers make any sense for dating it.

Real serious with my PM man, whitetrash would have your baby if ya want a good home for it. And as far as a classics pilot, it could do with a lot worse.

[RDjase]

Real serious with my PM man, whitetrash would have your baby if ya want a good home for it. And as far as a classics pilot, it could do with a lot worse.

i just PM you, are you going to be at vic round 3? i will be there spectating. can catch up then

[fi5hy]

www.450moto.com

CFR KXF RMZ YZF KTM 450 road race class

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEQx4hcBb7I

[Drew]

i just PM you, are you going to be at vic round 3? i will be there spectating. can catch up then

Sure will man. Come into Dean and my pit to say G'day. I'm 131 in superbike, Deano is 180 pro twins.

[RDjase]

Sure will man. Come into Dean and my pit to say G'day. I'm 131 in superbike, Deano is 180 pro twins.

Will do mate , Its is bloody hard being at a race meeting and not racing. cant stay away tho lol

[Robert Taylor]

look, how about a BUSA and ZX14 class with unlimited mods to the engines

Truck racing is banned on a number of circuits I believe!

[codgyoleracer]

A MVX250 :laugh:, a guy i know said he had a good posty bike i could have , and guess what turned up, A MVX , 16" front ,inboard disc and all that high tech V3. I cleaned out all the fuel system (had been out in the weather for 5years) hot wired it and the horible thing started 1st kick. Its there for you for if you want it for pre 89 Paul, you can relive the proddy racing days :Punk:

Does the center cylinder come with a warranty ?

[scracha]

Does the center cylinder come with a warranty ?


Urrgh. One of the few bike's I've never heard of. Did they import them in Europe? Looks like a VF500.

[Drew]

Urrgh. One of the few bike's I've never heard of. Did they import them in Europe? Looks like a VF500.

World wide release. The V3 design was meant to give a wider power delivery from the two stroke. Unfortunately, the cylinder at the rear ran a bit hot, and seized a lot, and holed pistons.

[quickbuck]

Urrgh. One of the few bike's I've never heard of. Did they import them in Europe? Looks like a VF500.

Sort of looks like a VF500F, as it was a V3 wedged into the VT250FD frame....
yes the inboard disc,,, well the idea was it was vented.... Hmmm....
Here you go.... (http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Honda_MVX_250_F_1983.aspx)
Mine actually had the plastic that went down the side, and underneath....

Can't believe it had a 110 rear tyre!!!!

[Drew]

Sort of looks like a VF500F, as it was a V3 wedged into the VT250FD frame....
yes the inboard disc,,, well the idea was it was vented.... Hmmm....
Here you go.... (http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Honda_MVX_250_F_1983.aspx)
Mine actually had the plastic that went down the side, and underneath....

Can't believe it had a 110 rear tyre!!!!

If ya sit it beside a VT, the two are actually really different. Very little is interchangable.

[RDjase]

Sort of looks like a VF500F, as it was a V3 wedged into the VT250FD frame....
yes the inboard disc,,, well the idea was it was vented.... Hmmm....
Here you go.... (http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Honda_MVX_250_F_1983.aspx)
Mine actually had the plastic that went down the side, and underneath....

Can't believe it had a 110 rear tyre!!!!

My LC has 18 by 1.85 wheels front and rear and 100/90 front(should have 90 but cant get in Sport Demons) 110/80 rear. the pirellis work realy well, heat up good and great in the wet, and go on my road bike when they get down a bit on tread. Has a great "Fun per dollar" Ratio :wari:

[Kickaha]

My LC has 18 by 1.85 wheels front and rear and 100/90 front(should have 90 but cant get in Sport Demons) 110/80 rear. the pirellis work realy well, heat up good and great in the wet,


BT45 Bridgestone is just as good and you can get the 90 front, thats what I ran on the one I had

[RDjase]

BT45 Bridgestone is just as good and you can get the 90 front, thats what I ran on the one I had

The Brigestone and Pirellis are much the same perfomance wise. I dont know how much difference a 90 would make on the front , Have you tryd a 100 compared to a 90? I would like to try some BT39 or BT399SS if they available in 18 inch

[Kickaha]

The Brigestone and Pirellis are much the same perfomance wise. I dont know how much difference a 90 would make on the front , Have you tryd a 100 compared to a 90? I would like to try some BT39 or BT399SS if they available in 18 inch

I didn't ever try a 100, Buddha#81 ran BT39 on his GPZ550 reckoned they were very good, dunno if they'd be quite as good in the wet though

[RDjase]

I didn't ever try a 100, Buddha#81 ran BT39 on his GPZ550 reckoned they were very good, dunno if they'd be quite as good in the wet though

I can borrow some LC wheels with Avon AM22 front and AM23 rear , nice race tyres , but very expensive. There 110 front and 130 rear but have side walls designed to suit the narrow rims . Thats good about the BT39s on the gpz , i will find out what sizes are available when my demons need replacing. They still got a lot left , I will do a test day at manfeild when i sort my new engine , that will wear them out

[RDjase]

Hows this for a idea?

2 separate Post classic races

Post Classic pre 82 and 72

Late Post Classic (or another name, any ideas welcome) Pre 95 and pre 89

We want more bikes on the track and more spectators. Taking the family out for the day can be a good day out , even if so said family doesnt know anything about bikes. The main (visual) difference between Pre 89 and pre 82 is huge . A ZXR400 compared to a RD350LC is light years apart. Even Joe bloggs who doesnt know much about bikes can see the full fairings ,USDs and 3 spoke mags and wide slicks ect, compared to the pre82/72 bikes,

To get this pre95 class going should not bump off the pre82/72 bikes to another class (DANGEROUS CLUBMANS, bad rider on a R1, Good rider on a FZR600 doing the same lap time). What is needed is all the Pre 82 and 72 bikes to get back on he track to allow the New pre95/89 class. There used to be heaps of pre 82 and 72 bikes racing. were are they? Did they all get parked up when pre89 started? Pre 82(junior) can be a cheap class. GS550 , XJ550, GPZ550, LCs ,X7s ,all competive bikes and dont break the bank. Pre 82 senior is a different story as you all know by the AWESOME 1000s racing.

The other problem is were can this new proposed class fit in on a race day? There is only so much time on the day for all the classes. What class could go if this did work? Clubmans bikes all done on laptimes to race in what ever class suits there speed?

Ive put this post in "would you race in post post classics?) as well as they seem to be on the same idea. maybe it time for a new thread

[koba]

Hows this for a idea?


I still say Leave it as it ain't broken.

I think changing the classes at the moment would detract from what we have.

[Drew]

I reckon that most people posting in this thread a few times, have wasted at least an hour of their lives to it.

So I propose this, give me an hour of your time each on my current contract, and for each hour I'll put 40 bucks toward promoting the next round of the vic series. (Next month I mean).

After that, we'll see what works or does not.


Disclaimer; Drew has no money, expect this no to happen.

[roadracingoldfart]

After that, we'll see what works or does not.


Disclaimer; Drew has no money, expect this no to happen.


The answer to the no money lies above that statement ya plonka , .....






ohh shit im deeper in time waste zone now huh !!.