Will I get my 100 ready in time for Taupo?

[koba]

I'm going up there to have a few beers and a camp.

I may race if I feel up to it. I may smash you on the track and blow you into the weeds.

[F5 Dave]

Normal sized (and ahem,senior ), people can't fit on RS125's...from personal observation I can verify Dave is, shall we say vertically challenged....That's the pilot the RS125 was designed for.

Surely there's some fast kid on the coast you can proudly stand behind.
am I? Gee I didn't notice. Buddy I'm 5'8" (& a little bit) that's average height, or sort of near it.

The RS is a struggle & first time I rode one I couldn't change down gear until I'd forced myself back in the seat. I've raised the seat about 40-50mm & lowered the pegs/brought them forward about a same amount so it is now similar dimensions to my old RG50.

Even so at the BOB I took about 2 min getting off the bike & another 10 walking up & down the pits to get some movement back. They are meant for teenage 5' sub 60kgers. I'm taller, almost 80kg & housed in over 40s chassis.

[husaberg]

am I? Gee I didn't notice. Buddy I'm 5'8" (& a little bit) that's average height, or sort of near it.

So I am in fact shorter than Dave!
Shit everyone always says he is some sort of Dwarf?
What does that make me?

Anyone got the width of the rear mounts of a RS125 frame pre 95?
Center to center in mm between them (rear two mounts) would be nice as well if pos.

[Moooools]

Only one rear mount on the nf4 frame I think you wil find.
Can't tell you the width sorry.

As for the height I believe that makes you very angry.


So I am in fact shorter than Dave!
Shit everyone always says he is some sort of Dwarf?
What does that make me?

Anyone got the width of the rear mounts of a RS125 frame pre 95?
Center to center in mm between them (rear two mounts) would be nice as well if pos.

[husaberg]

Only one rear mount on the nf4 frame I think you wil find.
Can't tell you the width sorry.

As for the height I believe that makes you very angry.

That explains a lot the misses is about 5 foot 0

and without errr....chips on both my shoulder's i could indeed have been a 6 footer I guess.
I don't Know how I missed the one mount at the rear maybe its now rare to see one that isn't been attacked with a grinder and welder I guess.

[F5 Dave]

a 50 gets in there real nice. Everything else is a mission & then you have to put up with a shock where the carb should live. CC induction helps there of course, but still a constriction to work around, even an RS has kinked inlet, but hooaa PWK39. If i remember I'll measure the mount. But many other constrictions, like the skinny frame & the fact the RS has a narrowed MX based engine at the sprocket section.

[husaberg]

a 50 gets in there real nice. Everything else is a mission & then you have to put up with a shock where the carb should live. CC induction helps there of course, but still a constriction to work around, even an RS has kinked inlet, but hooaa PWK39. If i remember I'll measure the mount. But many other constrictions, like the skinny frame & the fact the RS has a narrowed MX based engine at the sprocket section.

It is indeed a Crankcase induction and not a lot unlike a RS125 engine.
what is the rear mount width?

Vanessa has landed in Tauranga BTW.

[F5 Dave]

one of the kids is waking up, grumble impatient bastd. ok 79mm it seems to be.

[husaberg]

one of the kids is waking up, grumble impatient bastd. ok 79mm it seems to be.

Over 40 with sleeping Kids Dave No wonder your Grumpy sometimes:laugh:

Ps thanks for the measurements. Thanks indeed I say with a Machiavellian laugh echoing around the garage.
As all his best laid plans are either crushed or fall into place nicely.:msn-wink:

Anyway most appreciated.

[husaberg]

Found this for RS125 and similar. But from memory some bikes ahad a remote theromsats (VT i think) and probably lots of cars as well. But then again you don't want to do the thermostat route. I suppose.
http://www.rscycles.com/images/thermostat/therm_guhl.htm

(http://www.rscycles.com/images/thermostat/therm_guhl.htm)

[Sketchy_Racer]

The Guhl bypass thermos are great, I used one on my RS125 when I was racing that, never bothered pissing around with tape again, but at around $250NZ to get one its bloody expensive in terms of buckets!

If you can find a 55-60 degree thermo stat you could make one pretty easy though, I think aprillia RS125s thermostats are at around that temp.

[TZ350]

Found this for RS125 and similar. http://www.rscycles.com/images/thermostat/therm_guhl.htm


252990 252991

My guess the temp is in deg F and 130 F is about 54 C

[jasonu]

I never used a thermostat in my KERG100 with an RG50 based pump and never had a problem. Temp always stayed around 55-65 deg. On the odd occasion I had to put a strip of tape on the radiator.

[husaberg]

Not that dave will care but snooping around I found these Rover stuff.

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> Pressure Relief Remote Thermostat

From TechWiki
Jump to: navigation (http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Pressure_Relief_Remote_Thermostat#mw-head#mw-head), search (http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Pressure_Relief_Remote_Thermostat#p-search#p-search)
A Pressure Relief Remote Thermostat (PRRT), or sometimes just PRT, is used to increase the amount of coolant flowing around the engine. The PRRT has a bypass valve opening when the coolant pump is flowing too much coolant for the radiator circuit. This valve is reducing pressure difference inside the whole circuit, achieving at the same time a more constant temperature inside the engine.

Note: The acronym PRT means Pressure Relief Thermostat. This setup was developed by Bill Hutchins and used by Rover, MG and Landrover, it has been in use in mid engined cars for 25 years, and an Elise system was previously developed by Simon Scuffham when racing his k-series engined elise. PRRT is actually a misnomer (albeit harmless), allegedly invented by one of the members of the Seloc forum. The PRRT acronym may not actually be recognised by anyone outside of the Seloc forum (including anyone involved in the design, manufacture or assembly of the device) though is perhaps a more accurate description as the second R refers to remote.


<!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=253027&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1324193035 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=253027&d=1324193312)



remote stat with by-pass BMW/Rover SD1 2600/etc

http://www.mgfcar.de/thermostat/Water_System_Mods.htm

[F5 Dave]

great, so if I want to run it at 90 degrees I'll know where to rat parts.

Also temp switch means not forgetting to turn on pump & conserving battery life.

Ideally when I get a alternator incorporated I won't have to worry about charged batteries, cause that's a pain.

[Duke Stealth]

As discussed earlier, for Daves eyes only, who am I kidding!

[jasonu]

As discussed earlier, for Daves eyes only, who am I kidding!

What is the last pic of?

[Number One]

What is the last pic of?

It's a secret....

[F5 Dave]

end on of stinger same as RS125 arrangement.

[F5 Dave]

Well initial tests haven't been super promising as I was hoping. I had to advance the ign quite somewhat & the mj went up in size. Didn't have any bigger to try but it looked like there was little left.

and. . despite a considerably different pipe with esp an inlet far more size suitable to the 100. . the power curve was surprisingly similar.


So what are the known faults? I have a 2nd hand piston (put in last min when my original showed a tear in it) which some muppet has filled to increase transfer timing, something that isn't what I want & reduced the squish area to sod all.

Today I've now fitted my new YZ100 piston & machined the head considerably shallower to a more modern shape. After adjusting the squish I measured the com at ~14:1 which was my target for aircooled bike. I should have measured twice to be sure, but I wanted to believe it was right, what a fluke. The squish angle now matches the YZ piston which is less domed than the MB one.

I also noted the flange needed to be slotted to align with the ex outlet as it missed by ~3mm. That was my fault as I got the flanges made to a template & I should have checked better.

Keen to get back to the dyno & retry it all out, but run out of time today.

I've started a wc head so will be able to run a higher com for sure.

The unknowns are:
The missing & guessed at powerjet size, I seemed to lose power dicking around with this carb a few sessions ago so need to retest it. I don't like this carb, but it is my only sane option as the inlet is on an angle that a std carb won't play.

The inlet it on too much angle I'm sure.

The reedblock is likely too big. Maybe to packers may be worth testing.

The cases leak. I know this but how much it is affecting power who knows? New cases will answer that, but are a month off at least, then I have to alter the frame mounts as they will be different.

[jasonu]

Blah blah...So what are the known faults?

It's a Honda.

[F5 Dave]

NoNo - that's been filed off the side cover. Its been replaced (picture can't really pick it up) with some other letters made from stickers & painted over (need to find ones that have more thickness for the next cases). If you look closely it says P I S S O F F. It was hilarious 16 years ago, but no one has noticed it yet. :angry2:

[koba]

NoNo - that's been filed off the side cover. Its been replaced (picture can't really pick it up) with some other letters made from stickers & painted over (need to find ones that have more thickness for the next cases). If you look closely it says P I S S O F F. It was hilarious 16 years ago, but no one has noticed it yet. :angry2:

That is quite spooky, I'll explain why sometime.

[F5 Dave]

Well more testing & started to look a bit promising. Seems to have picked up a chunk of midrange, or more correctly the power starts earlier in the revrange & follows the same curve, but had another 1.7 at 10k. but then seems to dip & fall & then falter at 12 which was previously peak. So 10 is now peak. hmmm.

Many timing & jetting changes with PJ mods mixed in. Hard to get consistent readings & rev trace is falling over. Is this a return of the suspect ignition issuesI was having before with the RS ign? Maybe I need to try the RM back on. & as time goes on I notice the gap in the reed as I idly gaze in the inlet. Ahh crap. Wonder how much that is affecting it?

Some anecdotal response is that broken or chipped reeds will make it hard to start but shouldn't be an issue after that. my own experience on the H was it would start fine but have a misfire up top that would have me chasing ign. The MB starts fine.

So my steel reeds are back at home. Waste of time continuing & I don't know when it chipped & if it got worse. Later I see every reed side is got Damage appearing. So this Polini reed material isn't much chop for high revving engines it seems.

Where's the concrete?:angry:

[speedpro]

The reeds aren't rubbing on the side of the intake port or is there possibly a round corner of the port that the reeds are opening against? Sometimes even with stock reed stops the reeds extend far enough past them that when fitted into another motor unless you take a lot of care they can still tap the edges/corners of the port. Not saying you haven't been careful, really :hug:

[F5 Dave]

you know I was having that very thought this morning whilst shaving. There is no inlet port as such as it's into the cases & I though everything was clear but I will check again.

[F5 Dave]

So back on the dyno, I'll have a look at those reeds later. So yeah more power with steel reeds that aren't chipped. Few jet changes, nah likes the 300 & that's it. Still can't get a proper rev trace, just disappears at 10 where it gets within sight of 20 then makes a bit of a weird noise, half like its stuttering, but half like its slipping. Always just after 10. If I run up from real low revs sometimes it looks like it will pull through.

Inconsistent readings. Must try RM ign. Either that or the RGV carb which is a pain is just loading up some times. Try different power jet arrangement, nah 18 or 19hp.

So try an all gears run which I do every session to get a reality check & see if power falls off in higher gears. Balls up the changing a bit, but through the gears ; 15hp (1st always hard to read) 18, 18, 18, 23.5, 18. Hold on a sec. try that again. 22, 22, 22, 22, etc.

ok so spinning it out through the gears vs one run is either not flooding it due to high continuous airflow, or it is keeping a stator coil charged up a bit higher. I had tested the coil in the environmental oven at work & it seemed consistent values, but the CDIs on these early RS were known for throwing wobblies.

ok so there is potential there, just have to release it. When I started this engine 16 (17) years ago I was aiming mid 20s which was as high as anyone had managed. If the cases weren't leaking I think I'd be there.

ok so home & lets look at the reeds. Hmm, oops, yep, they rub. Another thing I overloked all that time ago, I changed to a wider reedblock 1/2 way through & can't have opened it up just enough. So what to do? If one remembers I glued these cases together in an (unsuccessful) attempt to stop them leaking. OK well maybe close the stops a mm. & make a reedblock spacer to pull the cage out 6mm. Carb now just rests against the shock, can go no further. But it isn't enough as the inlet is rounded at the corners. ok, fuk it, stuff a hankie in with some grease & dremel it. Not pretty but no option. Didn't get too much ally dust in there. . .

I need to finish these new cases. Wish I had another 32ish mm carb that had as steep a downdraft as the RGV ones, I don't trust these carbs. straight carb would never run on this inlet.

[Grumph]

Dellorto's will run happily at 42 degree downdraft.....

[husaberg]

So back on the dyno,
I need to finish these new cases. Wish I had another 32ish mm carb that had as steep a downdraft as the RGV ones, I don't trust these carbs. straight carb would never run on this inlet.

NSR250 its from a Honda. Also Honda own Keihin. Honda used various sizes. Honda also measure at the venturi MC16 =28 MC18=32mm. Do you need a Honda carb for your Honda framed Honda engined bucket. Other than that there were 2 styles of mikuni for the RGV but what carb did the 3xv Yam have the v twin i am not sure but it was a Powerjet one?


Dellorto's will run happily at 42 degree downdraft.....
Good to know. i supose it has because they work sideways on the Aprilia disk valve as well. I never thought about that before.

[F5 Dave]

Thanks, A mate has some magnesium Dellortos, but I'm not prepared to go buy another set of jets. I have Keihin & Mikuni already. Problem with the Honda carbs is they run that silly double cable setup & the pulley is too tall, the shock sits right above & it is currently touching. I have a stack of 28s, but they are a bit small for what I want. Can take them out a mm.

[Grumph]

[QUOTE=husaberg;1130232907)


Good to know. i supose it has because they work sideways on the Aprilia disk valve as well. I never thought about that before.[/QUOTE]

Nah, it's basic carb layout. If the idle/slow run circuits are on the engine side of the carb,(most Mikuni, some Keihin) then at some point you're going to get fuel dribbling permanently from those circuits when you tilt the carb.

Dellorto's in particular have those circuits on the air intake side and can be used at very steep downdrafts. roundslide Mikunis won't take more than about 15 degrees.....

Mmmm Magnesium,,,,,does he want to sell ?

[F5 Dave]

I could ask him, they're off his Rotax tandem disc valve, has Miks now as suits shorter NZ tracks. Not that's its had much use lately.. .

[F5 Dave]

I've seen some people us round Miks at about 30 degs with no dramas. But any time I've tried more than the error margin of a spirit level (ok maybe an exageration) they spew no matter how you adjust them.

[diesel pig]

I would not usually offer carb tuning advice because I am usually asking for it. But since you are using a downdraught 32mm mikuni off a RGV which is same carb I have been mucking about with for last couple of days. While doing the full bell maunal tune up when offering up a foreign carb to a new motor after finaling to get anywhere with a quick and easy "find the right main jet and fiddle with the needle til works kind of" tune. I found when doing the needle jet test the one where you run the carb with out the main jet and if it is the right size the motor should flood badly at half throttle that not only did it keep running it would except full throttle and seemed more like a carb with one or two size too big main jet. After making the needle jet bigger and finding a needle that would work with it transformed the tuning of the motor and it can now take snap openings and run clean thou the mid-range. So even thou they are not same motors they are case reed 100's with the same carbs so maybe if you have not already check it it maybe some thing worth doing?

[F5 Dave]

Thanks Neil. I pretty much remember doing that back in the day & is one of the first things I do, but heck who knows, it wasn't running well then so its worth retrying - so I will for the sake of it.

Presumably you have blocked off the two idle mixture bleeds on the front of the carb (though I think maybe Jap models had them on VJ21, whereas all VJ22 did).

[James Deuce]

I'm wondering if the thread title is referring to Taupo's next eruption, or not?

[F5 Dave]

ahh, Jim, well that could be anytime so I figure I better hurry.

yes the thread has morphed but I thought it amusing to keep teh same one going as the GP has been at Taupo a few times & I haven't been ready (till last year).

[James Deuce]

Thank you for clearing that up.

[husaberg]

Thanks, A mate has some magnesium Dellortos, but I'm not prepared to go buy another set of jets. I have Keihin & Mikuni already. Problem with the Honda carbs is they run that silly double cable setup & the pulley is too tall, the shock sits right above & it is currently touching. I have a stack of 28s, but they are a bit small for what I want. Can take them out a mm.

What did you run on the mb5 framed RG later framed bike.

The clearance i can empathise with after my TZR carbed H100 having to remove the carb to alter the needle and so forth is the height the issue with the current set up.

From left field what about a pumper no space problems or main jet issues there a mate had one on his Mb100 and it was super.
It had a few issues on over run but it was a vast improvement on his vm28 he had prior he was a kart guy and had the touch with the carb though.
I think i know how to solve the overun issues now.

Just to make Grumph jealous i know where there are two SS35 Dellortos not being used.
The only Delloroto have have used was the old 70's square never done much other than clean them.

Anyone have an idea what the TZR250 V twin carbs are like?
Are they down draft i had a quick look last night but didn't see a picture.
What model RGV carb do you have Dave at the moment.

Wob had something about modding some carbs for downdraft somewhere as well.
There is usually a Lectron or EI on Trademe most of the time too.

[F5 Dave]

What did you run on the mb5 framed RG later framed bike.

. . .
erm, not me. Had an H with heaps of room, but that ran a 28.

Don't want to run queer carbs that are unknown & have no jet backup, or at least would cost me to re set up. I've thrown $$ at jets over the years. I have a VJ21 32mm. If I ran some queer carb I'd never know if it is what is holding me back.

[husaberg]

erm, not me. Had an H with heaps of room, but that ran a 28.

Don't want to run queer carbs that are unknown & have no jet backup, or at least would cost me to re set up. I've thrown $$ at jets over the years. I have a VJ21 32mm. If I ran some queer carb I'd never know if it is what is holding me back.

Neither of the pumper or Lectrons have jets. :psst:

I haven't heard of the Lectrons slowing down, well anything inc Tz250s and the pumper carb well, have a look at TZ's dyno stuff with his is a baby 24mm imagine the drive-ability of a 34mm.

Also the nsr250 carb can be mirror so the linkage is on the otherside. So the side clearence may not be that much of a issue.

So you didn't have a mb5 framed 100 and then a rg50 framed 100 were they mb50 engined.?

[Kickaha]

Anyone have an idea what the TZR250 V twin carbs are like?
Well the V Twin TZ250 aren't a downdraft so I doubt the TZR 3XV carbs are

[Grumph]

Just to make Grumph jealous i know where there are two SS35 Dellortos not being used.
The only Delloroto have have used was the old 70's square never done much other than clean them.
.

Ha, so do I...and my name is on one of them for the Rudge. plenty of them around if you know where to look. The speedway ESO's that arrived here new all had SS1 35's on - and they were immediately pulled off and bloody concentrics bolted on.

Dellorto jet sizes are simple - straight millimeters. #50 idle jet = .50mm #165 main = 1.65mm Wish i had a buck for every dellorto jet I've made.

[husaberg]

Ha, so do I...and my name is on one of them for the Rudge. plenty of them around if you know where to look. The speedway ESO's that arrived here new all had SS1 35's on - and they were immediately pulled off and bloody concentrics bolted on.

Dellorto jet sizes are simple - straight millimeters. #50 idle jet = .50mm #165 main = 1.65mm Wish i had a buck for every dellorto jet I've made.


So is that where they probably come from.

Consentrics that kept Pat Thackwell in pocket money for years. Alloy in alloy for the slides. Top idea to finish of the design the Amal factory decided to make them out of recycled fry pans as well. I suppose they were cheap for BSA and Triumph. Same because the Monoblocs were well made and the TT's and the GP's were beautiful.
I had never seen them on anything other than the 60's Italian racers i always wondered cause i knew they weren't off a machi so why don't the CHCH machi bikes have them?
PS what happened to Gourlays one was it ever finished i can't remember it racing is he still around. Was Boat surveyor or similar

I know the Dellorto parts are half the price than the webber stuff for cars.

[koba]

Wish i had a buck for every dellorto jet I've made.

I started making a jet set for Mikuni Hex type jets.
Even made a flow rig out of an old carb to (unscientifically) test the flow rates.
Got a few done, attention span was spent, shelved until the time when I need more jets and have less disposable coin and more disposable time.

[husaberg]

I started making a jet set for Mikuni Hex type jets.
Even made a flow rig out of an old carb to (unscientifically) test the flow rates.
Got a few done, attention span was spent, shelved until the time when I need more jets and have less disposable coin and more disposable time.
The burgerman site http://www.nitrous.info/nitrous-solenoid.htmspells out how he does the webber style ones out of alloy cheese bolts i think.

They were for the nitros and fuel jets.
Yes i know the proper ones are the best-est most consistent.
i used to have a large genuine set all housed on nice little multi compartment boxes I wonder what the chances are of finding them in the old mans shed are?

[koba]

I wonder what the chances are of finding them in the old mans shed are?

It is good when old men are tolerant with the use of sheds.

I built the flow rig thing to be adjustable (its way more simple than it sounds in my descriptions) so I could calibrate it against a set factory jet. It seems repeatable with the calibration jet. My scale may not be the same as Mr Mikuni intended but it should be a consistent step up or down in CC per min at x (the calibration bit required) head.

I have no idea if it works properly yet and probably never will as I've managed to klepticly acquire a multitude of jets since then.

[Grumph]

We don't use the SS Dellortos on Macchis in this country because they're a bloody hard carb to set up - and the later pumpers are legal for pre 72 in NZ...I spent a Friday at Puke the year the MV six came out setting up Andy Gourlay's SS1 on Alky. Moving the float bowl height in .015in increments was tiring shall we say....
On the dummy grid an ex works mechanic with the MV came over..."scusi,scusi" grabs the running Macchi, leans it left and right - revs go up and down - offset float bowl, goes lean/rich - hands it back smiling "bene, bene, ver good !! " For one frightening moment I'd thought he wanted help with the MV...six SS1's with float bowls stuck in everywhere. Every time it leaned more than about 15 deg from the vertical it missed like a bastard.
Apparetly Dellorto wouldn't make them concentric type race carbs like the Keihins on Hondas....

Andy's still around in Akl - the bike is the one Barry Gurdler owns - and he let the Hoagys start off on it too. They're his nephews.

I found a chart on the net somewhere with comparative jet sizes - quite useful except it was in imperial bloody sizes.

[F5 Dave]

Anyways, I'm not using any queer daigo carbs, or buying jets, or making them. I am short on time & money but do have Kei & Mik jets. The Mik carb is quite short, keihin still taller by looks.

I had an MB5 framed MB5 if that helps. And an RG50 framed RG50.

[husaberg]

We don't use the SS Dellortos on Macchis in this country because they're a bloody hard carb to set up - and the later pumpers are legal for pre 72 in NZ...I spent a Friday at Puke the year the MV six came out setting up Andy Gourlay's SS1 on Alky. Moving the float bowl height in .015in increments was tiring shall we say....
On the dummy grid an ex works mechanic with the MV came over..."scusi,scusi" grabs the running Macchi, leans it left and right - revs go up and down - offset float bowl, goes lean/rich - hands it back smiling "bene, bene, ver good !! " For one frightening moment I'd thought he wanted help with the MV...six SS1's with float bowls stuck in everywhere. Every time it leaned more than about 15 deg from the vertical it missed like a bastard.
Apparetly Dellorto wouldn't make them concentric type race carbs like the Keihins on Hondas....

Andy's still around in Akl - the bike is the one Barry Gurdler owns - and he let the Hoagys start off on it too. They're his nephews.

I found a chart on the net somewhere with comparative jet sizes - quite useful except it was in imperial bloody sizes.

Dellorto jet sizes in imperial i guess only a pom would do that.
The greatest thing i have found with the Italians is they were able to understand and use metric and someone, i guess a pom goes and f's with that too.

Weird thing is i would have thought the MV would have shared the floats bowls there was a trick for the twins and singles by effectively using/Sharing two then no problems? Seen it somewhere. Tuning for speed? Classic Racer?

[Grumph]

Dellorto jet sizes in imperial i guess only a pom would do that.
The greatest thing i have found with the Italians is they were able to understand and use metric and someone, i guess a pom goes and f's with that too.

Weird thing is i would have thought the MV would have shared the floats bowls there was a trick for the twins and singles by effectively using/Sharing two then no problems? Seen it somewhere. Tuning for speed? Classic Racer?

No - i found the table on a yank forum somewhere....they have no idea what these dammfangled milly meters are...

The MV - I think the problem was that they did share - as it leaned the uphill carb went lean and the downhill one about two feet away went very very rich...When they push started it one guy ran at the back holding it dead vertical...

Dave - a 50 powered 50 and a 150 powered 150 - dead boring mate...

[husaberg]

Dave - a 50 powered 50 and a 150 powered 150 - dead boring mate...

I save Dave the trouble Honda 100 powered Honda. Not thats its a Honda mind you.
A honda 50 framed Honda 50.
A Suzuki 50 framed Suzuki 50
You forgot he also managed to insult both Italians and the homo's in one sentence that's commendable and shows he is inventive:msn-wink:


Anyways, I'm not using any queer daigo carbs, or buying jets, or making them. I am short .

[F5 Dave]

no 150s here. My 50 & my 100 are now in RS125s, although I did do an A/C 125 in the RS.

The RG/V 250 has a 350 in it which in turn is now a 500 if that counts.

My van has had many different engines in it. :msn-wink:(all in the back mind & usually attached in a bike)

[Henk]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to husaberg again.

[F5 Dave]

Well some frustrating times. As I alluded to in the ESE thread I decided I might have a clutch slip problem that manifests itself after a certain power level. Really weird & I've never seen a clutch let go at the top, usually if it is going to slip it does it on the way up the steep part of the torque curve.

If I'd been paying attn I'd have thought about the way it ramped up on the dyno where the trace disappears a bit after 10,000 & it just seems to revs quickly but fall off power on the dyno. Also at Ruapuna on tall gearing it was slipping at high revs, well actually at lower ones too for a while & then it got better, but didn’t rev out much, hmm.

Mike made me up a clutch pack with the extra fibre in it some ten odd years ago. His works fine & with just some 1mm washers holds back his 30hp. No reason mine should give any problem with considerably less.

So what the heck I have another engine so I pull the plates out of it & measure the plates & pack. Hmm, seem maybe a bit worn on the old ones, maybe 0.5mm over the pack. Useful but not a smoking gun.


I’d also thought to compare the clutch springs. Line them against each other, hmm the old ones are if anything 1/2mm taller than the old ones.

But wait a min. They seem to be skinnier wire. And less coils.


Ahh. A picture forms. When I gave Mike that clutch pack I did have a 100 one but I had a lot of parts left over from my MB50s. It appears it got assembled with 50 springs, and Honda being Honda had a different part for them.

Clutch lever now noticeably firmer.

So all bets off & back to the dyno to see if this makes my runs more consistent. Maybe Sunday.

[TZ350]

So all bets off & back to the dyno to see if this makes my runs more consistent. Maybe Sunday.

Good work, :niceone: let us know how it goes ......

[F5 Dave]

Yeah knowing the history of this bike it won't give up that easily.


I have milled the new cases and passing them onto a mate for some horse-trading welding that will line a reedblock up in a more appropriate position. Then it will be make new mounts & buy new seals/bearings & I'll have a non leaking set of cases.

That is unlikely before the GP if I'm honest. But I'll transfer the interim barrel, ign, pipe, over & work on the top end I want to build.

[speedpro]

. . . . . But wait a min. They seem to be skinnier wire. And less coils.


Ahh. A picture forms. When I gave Mike that clutch pack I did have a 100 one but I had a lot of parts left over from my MB50s. It appears it got assembled with 50 springs, and Honda being Honda had a different part for them.

Looks like I need to check a few things out in the garage as I have never noticed the difference in the springs and I have a few clutch packs from various MBs lying about. I always thought the only difference was one more pair of plates in the 100. Gary has commented about his clutch slipping a small bit when cold. The springs may be the culprit.

[F5 Dave]

yeah who would'a thought?

[jasonu]

yeah who would'a thought?

I would'a....

[F5 Dave]

Well some clutch springs can = about 6hp. All my previous tests were seemingly in vain. Just about touching 24. Retrying some previously tested things, but gave up due to a lack of bits at the dyno.

So at least this is making a bit more sense. So we have; leaking crankcases, wrong size reedblock in badly placed inlet, interim pipe for interim barrel, low com head awaiting water cooling & an ign that I can see move the curve about 300rpm without falling power so clearly some extn of the curve if I had a programmable, sadly short of the pingas to do so.

Some of Avs cast off tyres arrived (thanks Malc & Hels) & should be 8yrs newer than what is on the 100 currently. A third more power than previously; What's the chances of decent weather this sunday?

[F5 Dave]

Man I hate unbeading tyres on some rims they just stick & stick.

Sanding/scotchbrite them down for a key tonight (opps its Valentines, so maybe just do a rough job, . . .and then go sand the wheels) & repainting them with a rattlecan of Enamel stuff which is supposed to be hard as. Then leave for a couple of days & throw the tyres on. Maybe wait till the sund morning & decide whether to put the old wets on for Kaitoke. <_<

Guess I better enter this GP. 6 weeks till Taupo.

[Duke Stealth]

257580
Happy Valentines!

[koba]

257580
Happy Valentines!

All fun and games until SOMEONE has to go and post up pictures of sex organs!

[Duke Stealth]

All fun and games until SOMEONE has to go and post up pictures of sex organs!

Receptive ones at that.

[F5 Dave]

Well I usually can't be arsed with loading pics, but they do make a thread & here are my pretty painted wheels done with rattlecan enamel. Supposed to be tough stuff. Sadly it is also the worst paint ever for picking up greasy marks so needs a kero ragging at every pitstop. this happened for the photos, but can't see me maintaining interest in doing so thereafter.

and the crankcase pic just for Husaberg. doesn't show that well, I'll have to work on some thicker stickers for the next cases.


Pipe was mostly made by Sully & a bit of the welding by Sketchy, thanks guys.

[Henk]

That is way too clean and pretty to be one of Dave's bikes

[F5 Dave]

yeah a wipe with an oily rag & a flash hides a lot of sins.

[husaberg]

Well I usually can't be arsed with loading pics, but they do make a thread & here are my pretty painted wheels done with rattlecan enamel. Supposed to be tough stuff. Sadly it is also the worst paint ever for picking up greasy marks so needs a kero ragging at every pitstop. this happened for the photos, but can't see me maintaining interest in doing so thereafter.

and the crankcase pic just for Husaberg. doesn't show that well, I'll have to work on some thicker stickers for the next cases.


Pipe was mostly made by Sully & a bit of the welding by Sketchy, thanks guys.

Thanks my Itailian is not so good so i will need google translate....Oh i get it Pis sofi =Soft Cock well strange name for a bike? Is it a Nickname?:lol:

thanks, i was a little more interested in the reed cavity.

Against all advice about them being too small for my adult proportions i have followed your lead and purchased an NF4 as it has already been hacked about i will not feel guilty about hacking it somemore. it will be a 650km round trip to pick it up but hopefully this weekend. If i am allowed out, but special thanks to Crazyman and crazyGrandad? and his friend for arranging the delivery to the South Island.
I hope it will be ready for Greymouth?.

Can the wheels be clear coated or would that not work?

RE the offst pin problem with the MB100 to use strike KT100 pistons

Yes the best engineering solution is to build a custom pin like Mikes (Speedpro) but cha ching.
But What i did find was this on the Akunar site.
yes I know the half moon bearing have a bad rep.

But here is the twist.
I seen this on a Scooter site it seems people have been modding pins like these.
This pin is too large dia 22mm vs 20mm mb100 std dia.

Some scooter boys were having the same problem. So what they were doing is putting the pin in the lathe and using emery tape to bring down the outer Diameter that runs solely in the flywheels to suit their builds. As it is an offset design I assume the hardening in the centre is not going to be effected.but tape it up though.
They later Glass bead blast the out bits of the pin (i guess to roughen it up).Or maybe toughen?
The beauty of doing this approach is the pin is the right length of the MB100 has an offset adjustable even and it will except std style bearing as well as it is approx $26 dollars nz for the pin i see you have an lathe and i guess you have some emery tape..

Problem i have is a 24mm crank-pin bugger. Otherwise i would be trying it because i am fast approaching agreed budget limits.

Just an idea and bloody cheap too.

[Kickaha]

RE the offst pin problem with the MB100 to use strike KT100 pistons

Yes the best engineering solution is to build a custom pin like Mikes (Speedpro) but cha ching.


I got the holes in the crank welded up and then rebored in a different place to do mine, it uses a stock pin and big end bearings, everything off the shelf if it blows up

[F5 Dave]

problem with the MB is going inward makes the bore for the pin eat away at the crank weakening it. maybe using 20mm pin might be ok, maybe remeasure it.

Strike pistons for S version of KT look about 6" long.

erm emery tape? I just can't see that being anywhere near accurate even if you were a total fruitcake OCDer & I'm more of a ripshit&bust when it comes to doing something like that.

I'll wax/polish the wheels, maybe the polish will make them easier to clean. But of course precludes them being painted without a strip down, but as I said, I'm not that keen on doing cosmetic stuff after first attempt.

[husaberg]

problem with the MB is going inward makes the bore for the pin eat away at the crank weakening it. maybe using 20mm pin might be ok, maybe remeasure it.

Strike pistons for S version of KT look about 6" long.

erm emery tape? I just can't see that being anywhere near accurate even if you were a total fruitcake OCDer & I'm more of a ripshit&bust when it comes to doing something like that.

I'll wax/polish the wheels, maybe the polish will make them easier to clean. But of course precludes them being painted without a strip down, but as I said, I'm not that keen on doing cosmetic stuff after first attempt.

I know it does sound odd,but it will be spinning in a lathe remember. but it is only 2mm to remove or imm radius and if a cutting or using grinding tool was used it would, i guess destroy the origional heat treatment. Like i said these guys have been doing it on the thread (admittidly on scooters) i was looking at it is saved at work i will ad the link for it. Remember how Mr Munro made his primary drive the expects said no way it worked for 30 years.

With the piston length remember the stroke is going shorter as well so the length isn't probably as much of an issue with the normal piston not the odd one Yow had.

[F5 Dave]

Scooters probably don't do 13,000, I just think it will be bush & break.

All the Strike 'S' pistons are like Yowls, the normal KT pistons are 52mm.

Either way one of my barrels will be with CR (or was it KX)3mm over 50.5 for square setup.

[Bren_chch]

ooo that pipe is quite different to your old one... can i borrow your old pipe!? ;)

annnddd can u pop in to my thread and comment? :D

[F5 Dave]

Actually I'm going to retest my old pipe to make sure. I gerry rigged it on the dyno but it fell apart. After that yes you can try it. I'll look in on FXR site.

[F5 Dave]

Sorry mate, forgot logon again, have to check at work where I have it.
BTW DT200s look a lot like RZ350 barrels. Mine was good fun. can't see more than ~25hp from it in std though

[Bren_chch]

Login: oh stink.

pipe.. awesome!!! :d

dt200lc: think i reads the dt200lc as 33hp

[husaberg]

Scooters probably don't do 13,000, I just think it will be bush & break.

All the Strike 'S' pistons are like Yowls, the normal KT pistons are 52mm.

Either way one of my barrels will be with CR (or was it KX)3mm over 50.5 for square setup.


Nice of you to offer, but 2mm clearance is probably getting a bit on the loose side. A nice brand new crank would likely be of more interest. There has been a little interest expressed in a run of offset big end pins. It's getting tempting to check out current costs for say a run of 5. Throw in a (legal)rod kit and a bit of crank machining and it could still end up being quite expensive but you save by using cheap KT100 pistons and being able to step up in .05mm steps extending the life of each cylinder.
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yeah I'd still be keen.



Wob has both in stock.
KX is single ring I have paid for but nor yet seen the CR85 +3mm one.But looking at Wobs picture and a few other is likely to be two ring.
I just assumed when you asked Mike about getting an offset pin to you would want to take advantage of the Strikes availability over sizes and cost my Wiseco prolite cr85 one was $178NZD I think the 52mm strike is about $100 or so cheaper.

What is your target bore and stroke?


Scooters probably don't do 13,000,


So back on the dyno, ..... Still can't get a proper rev trace, just disappears at 10 where it gets within sight of 20 then makes a bit of a weird noise, .........nah 18 or 19hp............

Er... sounds like a 10k rpm scooter to me;)

[TZ350]

.... Still can't get a proper rev trace, just disappears at 10 where it gets within sight of 20 ....

What kind of pickup are you using, off the HT or LT side of the coil?

Our one clips around the LT wire to the coil and when we cant get a good trace I have seen Bucket un clip it and lay the whole pickup against the side of the coil, the radiated field gives a good signal, not sure if that will work with a HT pickup but probably worth a try.

[Yow Ling]

The strike piston I had was a J not a S J sizes are around 50mm

[F5 Dave]

low tens side of coil. Trace re-appeared when clutch didn't slip.

First day out. First race disappeared with run away. Sadly that didn't prove too much as Fish pulled out, Andrew got gay as it looked like rain & Rich & Hamish didn't show.

Bike was going well, quite fast when it got up there, but had a carburation lag. Tried another needle but it wouldn't run. Back to old needle with a couple down on the main as muggy day.

maybe I should post on ESE thread for some jetting ideas.


Arsebiscuits!

258022

[koba]

low tens side of coil. Trace re-appeared when clutch didn't slip.

First day out. First race disappeared with run away. Sadly that didn't prove too much as Fish pulled out, Andrew got gay as it looked like rain & Rich & Hamish didn't show.

Bike was going well, quite fast when it got up there, but had a carburation lag. Tried another needle but it wouldn't run. Back to old needle with a couple down on the main as muggy day.

maybe I should post on ESE thread for some jetting ideas.


Arsebiscuits!

258022


:shit:



ten characters

[TZ350]

After all your work, thats bad luck, what brand of piston was it?

[husaberg]

After all your work, thats bad luck, what brand of piston was it?
Genuine sincere commiserations Dave.
but you know i have to ask What brand piston is in your non Honda, Honda powered Honda engined Bike.:wait:
258050258051

[Bert]

Is that the second YZ100 piston Dave? or is that the same one recycled from before Christmas?

Its taken one hell of a beating... I hope its not a common theme with those pistons..:shit:

[Farmaken]

low tens side of coil. Trace re-appeared when clutch didn't slip.

First day out. First race disappeared with run away. Sadly that didn't prove too much as Fish pulled out, Andrew got gay as it looked like rain & Rich & Hamish didn't show.

Bike was going well, quite fast when it got up there, but had a carburation lag. Tried another needle but it wouldn't run. Back to old needle with a couple down on the main as muggy day.

maybe I should post on ESE thread for some jetting ideas.


Arsebiscuits!

258022

Looks like one of those mysterious electrical problems !!!:innocent:

[fi5hy]

get it over with Dave buy some valves an become a diesel

[F5 Dave]

um, Fishy I don't think you can talk. Yesterday you handed me the very same looking piston from your Longchin

[F5 Dave]

Well that is the last time I use a YZ100 piston I thought as I levered the top out of the barrel with a skinny screwdriver.

So what caused this? I figured that maybe those gungeon pin adaptors had somehow knackered the piston. indeed they were scrap after the carnage.

Bore has a tiny scrape. One thing that was concerning was the amount of rattle with this piston in it. The full length MB piston didn't sound this bad. but then again the YZ piston has a big scoop in the back of it.

The bore looked good when I got this barrel with not real marks or lip. It was 1st over so I ordered the corresponding YZ piston. Before I had run the piston from my original 100 barrel that was brand new bar 1/2doz dyno runs. That survived the BOB 55 min race. However I did note it had a crack in the front of the skirt when I took it out.

Maybe the bore was bored too big to start with. I never measured it, I don't have any 3 point mics, or heck even any 2 sided.

I might have to risk another YZ piston next size up. Man this is testing me.

[speedpro]

Tell us again why you are using YZ pistons. The stock Honda pistons only come apart if you are already revving the nuts off it and change down. The Hondas will lose a tip off a ring before the piston comes apart. I've been there.

[F5 Dave]

yes this is the 2nd piston, I'm questing to rid the world of YZ100 parts it seems.

Well re the MB piston, I wanted to see if a thinner ring would provide more power. While they might not break if they are fluttering they can't be sealing or transferring heat as well. I remember my MB50 ran considerably better when the RD piston with the thinner rings went in. Although you will well remember the consequences, but that was the crank's fault pushing the piston out the cases.

strangely my MB50 ring tips would pop off on a regular basis & it didn't go much past 12.


New YZ piston on order but will bore it to 51mm.

[speedpro]

I should figure out how to start a poll.

[F5 Dave]

Hey the back up bike has been offered. Just have to work out how to pay for all these things like pistons & parts for other bikes + come up with silly $ to enter two GP classes.

[F5 Dave]

Well I took a day off work to assemble the 100. rebore got done fri morning (late) but Sketchy made up some more adapters for me. They are somewhat tighter so I'm not looking forward to taking them out, but safety first & all that.


ran the bike in in Practice & first race. Still makes a weird noise, but doesn't have the chronic piston slap of before. Well it went ok but I had to relearn to ride Kaitoke & overcome a flat spot coming onto power. Fortunately once you've worked it out the only time it is an issue is in the warm up laps & thereafter you'd never know it was there.


After a few years of slowly slipping down the pecking order racing the 50 against the 150 4 strokes I was concerned as I was losing ground going down the hill section & surely you don't use full power there. But as it turns out having more power really does help. Everywhere.

There's still a few things I could experiment with, a back to back with the RS pipe. And the RS ign which seemed to give more overev & possibly more power. Retry carbon reeds as its got steels atm. But after this weekend I'm very tempted to just change the gearing & ride that fcuker like it is.


Bwahahahaha!!!:woohoo:

Oh yeah & for the original post. I think the 100 is ready for Taupo.

[Number One]

Sounds promising Dave!

[husaberg]

oh yeah & for the original post. I think the 100 is ready for taupo.

186 AD ...........:shutup:

[F5 Dave]

Hey this will be the 2nd GP I've ridden inside 6 months.


Its still held together with sticky tape, but it was good enough to win races.

[andrew a]

Hey this will be the 2nd GP I've ridden inside 6 months.


Its still held together with sticky tape, but it was good enough to win races.

You did well Dave. Thanks for not getting it finished 12 years ago. Let some of us other chaps have a go! Looked good when Malcom rode it.

[F5 Dave]

Actually it sounded good from the marshal post as he accelerated up the hill. You never really know what it looks or sounds like from the seat.

Your 150 really looks the schizzle & for a first time outing showed more to come.

[Number One]

Hey this will be the 2nd GP I've ridden inside .

Please refrain from riding your GP bike in the lounge!

[F5 Dave]

Ha, little do you know. This bike lived in my spare room for over a year. When my yet to be wife moved in she had to share the room with it. So she can never argue she didn't know what she was getting herself in for.

[F5 Dave]

Probably should go to dyno to see if new piston has required a slight tickle, but I'm glad I looked at the engine mount.

Rubber insert had disintegrated & engine cocked over 10mm. Bolt was coming out. hence the chain was rubbing making a weird noise. I'd checked that bolt earlier just before Malcolm jumped on but seen no problem, but it was a weak part of the design. I'd noticed it got worse sometimes. Sometimes It was reed flutter I'm sure, but sometimes it was coming from the LHS of the engine. I took off the side cover to see if the rotor was rubbing, but no. So sprocket making a noise & then the bolt coming out made a noise, but only in some angles of suspension.

So I'll try get a longer bolt & put a nut/split pin on the other side. Couldn't do that in the initial design as the water pump outlet was in the way. No pump pipe now. I've machined up a spacer that can't collapse into the engine mount hole as it is too big to go anywhere.

[Moooools]

Ha, little do you know. This bike lived in my spare room for over a year. When my yet to be wife moved in she had to share the room with it. So she can never argue she didn't know what she was getting herself in for.

Pfffft. I just moved my 50cc project into its new workshop: my dorm room.
Space is just a little tight.

[F5 Dave]

Excellent choice! Now try to get a wimin to move in with you.

[speedpro]

That's when the trouble starts, and you don't even have to be keeping your most prized race bike in the lounge.

[F5 Dave]

Sage advice from a man of the world, listen up carefully Max.

So maybe start in the kitchen Mike? After all it should be the cleanest room in the house, which helps set the scene for engine rebuilds.

+ the dishwasher is handy for those greasy parts to make them spotless.

[Kickaha]

+ the dishwasher is handy for those greasy parts to make them spotless.

The oven is also handy for heating cases up to put bearings in

[Fast Eddie]

The oven is also handy for heating cases up to put bearings in

haha really? Cause I'll do it..

and is the dishwasher really a good idea... cause I'll do that too.. tooth brushes arent that great for cleaning lots of dirty bits all the time

[husaberg]

Excellent choice! Now try to get a wimin to move in with you.

Er Dave. Didn't you say yours moved in cause you were renting out the room rather than just your charm?

Yes never tried the dishwasher but have done the whole stove thing though. Also burnt the vinyl at a mates place putting a ringgear on a flywheel fresh out of his misses oven as well though.

PS the misses pledge is excellent for shining the bike. Sure smells nice too (Lemony) and Handy Andy is a great wheel wash and general degreaser. Wash it off though.

Oh yeah our freezer is useful as well for bearing too and the mild abrasive polish she brought for the ceramic stove top is excellent for removing crusty brake deposits embedded in wheels.

It not yours honey remember. It ours:woohoo:

[speedpro]

Dishwashers are good for steel parts but a bit corrosive on alloy. Ovens are good for baking engine enamel as well though you have to be careful heating older model engine blocks as the sleeves can fall out plus all the oil down between the sleeve and block seeps out and burns on the bottom of the oven. That's a hard smell to cover up.

[F5 Dave]

Well I have the engine mount sorted & now a longer bolt. Tomorrow I have the day off to fit it & pack. Just fitted a longer shift arm lever as shifting was a little high pressure, but I'll take the old arm in case the lever action becomes too long. Seems good though.

[husaberg]

Was Taupo ready in time for the 100?

[Kickaha]

So what happened?

[husaberg]

So what happened?


No idea i thought they were racing or something.

[Kickaha]

No idea i thought they were racing or something.

Dominated by four strokes as it should be

I was wondering what happed to Daves bike, is he just to hard on gear?

[husaberg]

Dominated by four strokes as it should be

I was wondering what happed to Daves bike, is he just to hard on gear?

I doubt it broke down, it will just be less er....completely running than it was previously.<_<

[Buddha#81]

Devicon engine case failure?

[F5 Dave]

Hey it was ready & can't deny it was competitive, in fact more so than anyone on this thread for sure. But sadly, no I made some mistakes & shortcuts. Quite happy that the basis is sound, & very happy that I can still ride when I want to. Nice to have some power advantage on some people than the other way around doing the David & Goliath thing on the 50 too often.

Some new bits & we'll be away. Must finish these cases. Non leaking cases will help for sure.

[husaberg]

Devicon engine case failure?

Be interesting if it was. For it would not generally be considered a std Honda part. In Dave's Honda engined and Honda framed Non Honda.
So in all seriousness, what did actually happen Dave? My moneys on another Yamaha part failure.

[Grumph]

Hey it was ready & can't deny it was competitive,

Some new bits & we'll be away. Must finish these cases. Non leaking cases will help for sure.

Hmmm - my money's on a meltdown.....Kev supplied those bits to avoid just this scenario, Dave. I was keen to keep them here and continue development of his bike. Don't bloody well waste them !!

[F5 Dave]

As I said in the F4 picks thread, the ring smeared in the groove. Why? Well the inlet port was blocked with some ally that was just clear of the bore. But the next rebore (week before last) got into it. Infact he smeared a little honing it, but it cleaned out fine. But the ring was mainly locked at the back, but worked around locked at the front probably as a consequence.

Could also be the inconsistent fuelling from the leaking cases, but the top of the piston didn't look bad at all.

The piston also developed a crack from the gungeon hole to the bottom. I suspect as a result of the stress of hitting the head. When I took the barrel off the gasket at the rear had disintegrated a bit. Was this cocking the barrel a bit? unlikely, but I didn't find why the head clearance had closed up to the back. Maybe the piston wasn't symmetrical front to back. I'd reskimed the head so it had 0.8 at the rear but this left a bit more than a mm at the front. Need to recheck all this again. Also the adaptors were a lot tighter than first time & had to push them in with a sash clamp, but there was no time to ease them & this was a one way journey, new motor soon (having said that I thought would be finished before Christmas).

I might try a wiseco piston which are forged. Could be these old YZs didn't do 12000rpm & std cast piston just can't cope. Sadly Wiseco are twin ring & thicker ring.

[Rick 52]

Hard luck Dave you were flying ,it certainly shown lots of potential this weekend ..

[F5 Dave]

yes, on the long drive back I was formulating what I could sell to generate the modest money required to get a few issues sorted. The Trials bike might have to take one for the team. -Which is a pity as I love riding it.

[husaberg]

As I said in the F4 picks thread, the ring smeared in the groove. Why? Well the inlet port was blocked with some ally that was just clear of the bore. But the next rebore (week before last) got into it. Infact he smeared a little honing it, but it cleaned out fine. But the ring was mainly locked at the back, but worked around locked at the front probably as a consequence.

Could also be the inconsistent fuelling from the leaking cases, but the top of the piston didn't look bad at all.

The piston also developed a crack from the gungeon hole to the bottom. I suspect as a result of the stress of hitting the head. When I took the barrel off the gasket at the rear had disintegrated a bit. Was this cocking the barrel a bit? unlikely, but I didn't find why the head clearance had closed up to the back. Maybe the piston wasn't symmetrical front to back. I'd reskimed the head so it had 0.8 at the rear but this left a bit more than a mm at the front. Need to recheck all this again. Also the adaptors were a lot tighter than first time & had to push them in with a sash clamp, but there was no time to ease them & this was a one way journey, new motor soon (having said that I thought would be finished before Christmas).

I might try a wiseco piston which are forged. Could be these old YZs didn't do 12000rpm & std cast piston just can't cope. Sadly Wiseco are twin ring & thicker ring.

What is the bore now Dave .25 or .5mm?
Vanessa will have a prolite Not cause i think they are cool. Just not a lot of choice around, Shame we can't go to 52mm strikes aye.

[F5 Dave]

.5 so 51mm. or 4th over YZ.

[F5 Dave]

Well if I do rebuild the crank to suit the 16mm piston pin I'd need a rod with a 20mm big pin & 14mm wide. That isn't a common animal from what I can find. Even if I were to shave 1 mm & accept a 16mm wide 20mm rod.

[kiwifruit]

The Trials bike might have to take one for the team

What sort, how much?

[F5 Dave]

I have a GasGas TXT200. Its an '00 that I've had 10 years & is pretty mint considering how some people look after play bikes. I've already had a text as a result of that one statement. Heck I dunno, I'm waning between wanting the money to do stuff & then on the other hand I love riding the Trials bike & looking on TM you need to fork out quite some wonga for a replacement.

I'm trying to work out if there is anything else I can sell that will bring in some decent cash. I should stop looking around until I get home, I need my job still.:shifty:

[husaberg]

Well if I do rebuild the crank to suit the 16mm piston pin I'd need a rod with a 20mm big pin & 14mm wide. That isn't a common animal from what I can find. Even if I were to shave 1 mm & accept a 16mm wide 20mm rod.

What length are you after Dave?

[F5 Dave]

std is 100mm, but longer is better. I'm not finding much that isn't for a Vespa.

It would be a crank build for this piston as other pistons I may be interested in including KT are 14mm. But that requires another crank set up anyway.

[husaberg]

std is 100mm, but longer is better. I'm not finding much that isn't for a Vespa.

It would be a crank build for this piston as other pistons I may be interested in including KT are 14mm. But that requires another crank set up anyway.

You have looked through Kevin breen and Samarin and the mad Swede Roffe sites i guess as well as ProX?
Someone (in the industry no less) is always harping on that Vespa's are real performance bikes i guess?
The euros do some real odd ball stuff with rods lengths and sizes i found a odd one (Monessa) i think that was something like 118mm with a 18mm crank pin and a bucket sized little end yesterday. But surely you can't have many YZ100 pistons left Dave they have been listed by Yam since at least 1990 as being available.

The cagiva looks promising not sure it has the width at the bottom though guess you have deleted the thrust washers?

[F5 Dave]

I seem to keep buying them. This is my 4th inside about 4 months, I really can't afford this.

[husaberg]

I seem to keep buying them. This is my 4th inside about 4 months, I really can't afford this.
There is also probably a group of YZ100 restorers on plus.75mm bores forming a posse now Dave, as we speak.
http://dayerses.com/data_images/posts/yamaha-yz-100/yamaha-yz-100-03.jpg

[F5 Dave]

Nah I'm on +1mm now, 0.75 was too loose.

[husaberg]

Nah I'm on +1mm now, 0.75 was too loose.
read it again dave:innocent:

[husaberg]

Dave i seen this the other day obviously not the right size for you but they are quite different than your current design

http://www.pvlsverige.se/vrm/Kolvringar%20och%20bultar/14till12mm.jpg
its translated but you will get the drift.
This is a shit clever idea of being able to rebuild the pistons with 14 mm piston pin diameter for engines with 12 mm piston pins
Perfect to push the sleeve into the flask with a mandrel so achieves perfect paralellitet to 12 mm piston pin just slides in easily.
Outer diameter 14.00 mm
Inner diameter 12.00 mm.
Lengths from 8 mm
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=252219&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1323249334

Just got back from Sketchys place. This is a YZ100 piston from Evilbay with two simple shrouded bushes. The pin is shortened so it is long enough to push them into the circlips retaining them & not rubbing on the bearing. They are made pretty tight but sliding. Far better than I could hope to turn up on my lathe. By a long shot. He can make some nice stuff..

[crazy man]

l dont think dave will get it built:drinkup: in time but l have the record for the fastest build lol

[F5 Dave]

What are you on about Scott? Its been to two Taupo GPs. You were at the last one.


The question the thread should be taking is "Will it be ready for the next Taupo?

Bike went BANG at Easter. There was a minor seizure at the back of the barrel, I sanded that out at the track & went easy for a session. Then next race in 2nd it let go big time. Slung it in the van. Had a quick peek yesterday & the head & gearbox are likely ok.

Seems a small bit of the barrel below the boost port dropped out. Actually can't find it.

[F5 Dave]

. . .Seems a small bit of the barrel below the boost port dropped out. Actually can't find it.

Found! in the exhaust pipe.

And as no one took my lead-in pitch the bit below the barrel that fell out, was really pushed. By the rod.

I don't think I will use piston pin adaptors again. Actually I know I won't. They only need to move inward a little & they will interfere with the small end. When I took it apart the first time the bearing was a little blue, but as the piston had shattered I noted it but continued -after replacing the bearing.

No, time for a new rod size (some of it was in the pipe too).

So now I have a slot from the boostport down. I could just bore it for a KT piston & leave the slot, or I could fill it in clear of the bore, or I could weld in some liner & rebore it then.

I have found legal rods for YZ piston (RGV, but still needs 22mm bore pin), but that limits me from ever changing. With a destroke there are also legal options for 20 & 22mm pins. And lots of illegal ones, but no point going there.

[crazy man]

What are you on about Scott? Its been to two Taupo GPs. You were at the last one.


The question the thread should be taking is "Will it be ready for the next Taupo?

Bike went BANG at Easter. There was a minor seizure at the back of the barrel, I sanded that out at the track & went easy for a session. Then next race in 2nd it let go big time. Slung it in the van. Had a quick peek yesterday & the head & gearbox are likely ok.

Seems a small bit of the barrel below the boost port dropped out. Actually can't find it.your a good whine up lol . l dont know why but 2 strokes seemed to last better in the old days

[F5 Dave]

Mine was built in the old days, but bad welding screwed it & its been suffering as I dragged it out over a decade later & tried to get it raceable on no money. The YZ piston with MB rod was not a good idea.

[crazy man]

Mine was built in the old days, but bad welding screwed it & its been suffering as I dragged it out over a decade later & tried to get it raceable on no money. The YZ piston with MB rod was not a good idea.what went wrong with the rg150 turned to a 100? thought that was a good idea?

[F5 Dave]

That was aircooled RGV150 into 125.

Same problem. Conrod was wrong size for piston. By the time someone had pressed the pin off centre into the crank & I had to get it redone & welded that was that crank's fate sealed. the small end bearing that mates the two together was less than up to the task & it fell apart, twice.

Was time to bail out rather than find another RGV engine & start again. Decided I wanted a 100 & my MB motor was still there. Maybe I could get it going . . . .:facepalm:

Heck it showed its promise, - built on rubbish foundation, that's all.

[jasonu]

your a good whine up lol . l dont know why but 2 strokes seemed to last better in the old days

I was thinking the same thing this afternoon. I don't remember Jimmy and Ken Steadmans, Steve Diproses (Rams old bike), David Diproses or Chris Pickets bikes (and others I can't name atm) blowing up enough to say there were unreliable. All of them had atleast 20 hp except for Pickets RG50. Hell my KERG (25hp) finished the Ohakea GP, a visit to Manfield and Ohakune, several Taupos and numerous Mt Welli meets on the same motor and not one blow up.
I don't think the apparent unreliability of the current 2 strokes can be totally put down to all the HP they have 'found' causing extra stress on the motors. A good platform, design, engineering, careful (and smart) assembly and proper maintainance (and SOME cash) has a lot to do with consistantly finishing races at or near the pointy end.
Just my opinion and in my opinion it is the correct opinion...

[crazy man]

I was thinking the same thing this afternoon. I don't remember Jimmy and Ken Steadmans, Steve Diproses (Rams old bike), David Diproses or Chris Pickets bikes (and others I can't name atm) blowing up enough to say there were unreliable. All of them had atleast 20 hp except for Pickets RG50. Hell my KERG (25hp) finished the Ohakea GP, a visit to Manfield and Ohakune, several Taupos and numerous Mt Welli meets on the same motor and not one blow up.
I don't think the apparent unreliability of the current 2 strokes can be totally put down to all the HP they have 'found' causing extra stress on the motors. A good platform, design, engineering, careful (and smart) assembly and proper maintainance (and SOME cash) has a lot to do with consistantly finishing races at or near the pointy end.
Just my opinion and in my opinion it is the correct opinion...just like the side cars having to carry two people around alot heaver. lm shore mine put out some good hp and only dnf one out of 5 gp's l went in. l think if alot of guys just backed off 3 - 4 hp a bit of retard a bit risher a bit less piston to head cearance they would finsh ok and still have a fast bike./ some good engineering like you said is realy needed

[F5 Dave]

Hey my bike had just that morning been fed another mainjet up from totally safe & retarded another couple of degrees as a precautionary measure.

Crankcases that leak from bad & copious welding + running a YZ 16mm piston to a rod with 14mm se just were a bad base to start from. We all knew that, but two v.young kids, down to one income, & a recession & a garage of bikes to feed & there isn't enough to go around.

So I'm selling a bike to generate some funds & start again. As I said I machined the cases at Christmas. The welding is done, just need to devcon & do the sidecovers, then populate a bunch of bearings & decide on how best to destroke the crank.

oh yeah & remount engine with new mounts & repair damage to current barrel, or start another.

[crazy man]

Hey my bike had just that morning been fed another mainjet up from totally safe & retarded another couple of degrees as a precautionary measure.

Crankcases that leak from bad & copious welding + running a YZ 16mm piston to a rod with 14mm se just were a bad base to start from. We all knew that, but two v.young kids, down to one income, & a recession & a garage of bikes to feed & there isn't enough to go around.

So I'm selling a bike to generate some funds & start again. As I said I machined the cases at Christmas. The welding is done, just need to devcon & do the sidecovers, then populate a bunch of bearings & decide on how best to destroke the crank.

oh yeah & remount engine with new mounts & repair damage to current barrel, or start another.l know what your saying and are in the same boat my self athritis dose not help at all . also make it very hard to race having more bad days than good but would love to get a race in at some stage.

[F5 Dave]

Easter would have been an ideal low pressure environment. there's two corners you have to brake hard for though, not sure if that is an issue.

[husaberg]

I was thinking the same thing this afternoon. I don't remember Jimmy and Ken Steadmans, Steve Diproses (Rams old bike), David Diproses or Chris Pickets bikes (and others I can't name atm) blowing up enough to say there were unreliable. All of them had atleast 20 hp except for Pickets RG50. Hell my KERG (25hp) finished the Ohakea GP, a visit to Manfield and Ohakune, several Taupos and numerous Mt Welli meets on the same motor and not one blow up.
I don't think the apparent unreliability of the current 2 strokes can be totally put down to all the HP they have 'found' causing extra stress on the motors. A good platform, design, engineering, careful (and smart) assembly and proper maintainance (and SOME cash) has a lot to do with consistantly finishing races at or near the pointy end.
Just my opinion and in my opinion it is the correct opinion...

Oh I was actually thinking the same thing too, but i believe the quality of competition is higher.
The quality of the parts has not improved and if anything it has decreased.
Think about it for a minute where a lot of the parts are being made now, margins are tight and in real terms the parts are now actually cheaper than they used to be. So there will be inevitable compromises.
Even Dave's Genuine Yamaha YZ100 piston's which were made say 30 years ago would not are got better with age.
Think how many times they would have fallen off the many shelves they would have inhabited.

If then you add all the above with the fact that the difference's in stress between say 20 to 25hp or 25-30 hp with similar parts is huge, possibly 2x the stress.
Hp is indeed costly, as are cutting corners.

But yeah correct choice of parts coupled with clever attention to detail and calculated assembly of often rewarded in all forms of motorsport.
To finish first first..... well you all know the rest.

Oh yeah Dave talk to Kel re the rods he has the list he is working on at the moment.
Plus i may have found one last night as well. Legal to in my opinion. But i will throw it open to the panel first.

[crazy man]

Easter would have been an ideal low pressure environment. there's two corners you have to brake hard for though, not sure if that is an issue.the breaking would be the hardest .think l need to build a bike with high bars on it to take the presser away from my arms . l shame breaking was one of my strong points after you said you could out break me easy years ago lol l put that down to my success in the f3 racing. is there a meeting this weekend there?

[speedpro]

The other option you have Dave is to go for a rod with a 24mm pin and bore the pin holes out on the crank offset 2mm which will result in a 4mm increase in stroke. With a KT100 piston it will start out at 113.7cc. ProX have a 115mm long rod which is 15mm wide with a 24mm pin - 03.6610. KT100 pistons are about 7mm shorter pin-crown that an MB piston. Good quality BE bearings are available as well

[husaberg]

The other option you have Dave is to go for a rod with a 24mm pin and bore the pin holes out on the crank offset 2mm which will result in a 4mm increase in stroke. With a KT100 piston it will start out at 113.7cc. ProX have a 115mm long rod which is 15mm wide with a 24mm pin - 03.6610. KT100 pistons are about 7mm shorter pin-crown that an MB piston. Good quality BE bearings are available as well


As you seem to have used ProX stuff Mike how do the prices work out?

[crazy man]

Hey my bike had just that morning been fed another mainjet up from totally safe & retarded another couple of degrees as a precautionary measure.

Crankcases that leak from bad & copious welding + running a YZ 16mm piston to a rod with 14mm se just were a bad base to start from. We all knew that, but two v.young kids, down to one income, & a recession & a garage of bikes to feed & there isn't enough to go around.

So I'm selling a bike to generate some funds & start again. As I said I machined the cases at Christmas. The welding is done, just need to devcon & do the sidecovers, then populate a bunch of bearings & decide on how best to destroke the crank.

oh yeah & remount engine with new mounts & repair damage to current barrel, or start another.would a 1978-82 cr125 56mm piston be any good?

[Henk]

is there a meeting this weekend there?

pretty sure there is

[F5 Dave]

would a 1978-82 cr125 56mm piston be any good?
That is what DC in chch used. Nah I want to build a 100, thanks anyway.

[jasonu]

Oh I was actually thinking the same thing too, but i believe the quality of competition is higher.
.

Now that is a brave statement.

[crazy man]

l think the competition has always been there in the top 5. we are just lucky morley sheiffs is still not racing to deal to us

[F5 Dave]

You only have to look at Wellington scene to see that the game has been lifted. I mean it started out low & I had the measure of everyone, but that was some time ago. Are we talking bikes or riders?

The bikes have got better (ok some 2 strokes aside) as stiffer frames, better suspension & brakes. Usable power & a reasonable amount, but largely tyres are streets ahead.

In wgtn; the front end of B grade would have done pretty well in A grade of a few years ago. In A grade qualifying Hamish posted a 41.9. not too long ago we thought 43 anything was the shizzle. I posted a 43.9 on my 50 last saturday. New Tyres help.

[kel]

I don't think the apparent unreliability of the current 2 strokes can be totally put down to all the HP they have 'found' causing extra stress on the motors. A good platform, design, engineering, careful (and smart) assembly and proper maintainance (and SOME cash) has a lot to do with consistantly finishing races at or near the pointy end.
Just my opinion and in my opinion it is the correct opinion...


Well I cant argue with the "good platform" bit but some of us have choosen the air cooled 125 platform and we're achieveing power figures some 50% higher than the motorcrossers of the same era, there is no way the Japanese were building in that much tolerance into their parts/materials. When you exceed the factories abilites by such extreme levels (again Im talking air cooled motors) then you really are pushing the limit as none of the current legal parts we use are designed around an air cooled platform, piston cam being a perfect example. Then we have the programmable ignitions, power jets etc which were unheard of in buckets 10 years ago, extra stress HELL YES!
Things have moved forward Jason the level of design, engineering and smart assembly included. We could detuned the engines for 100% reliability and still smoke the buckets of old but thats a limited goal.
ps. a spare bike also helps with consistently finishing races at or near the pointy end

[F5 Dave]

Yes I am glad of my (spare bike) 50 lately. Just can't do the biz in traffic. Or against really fast bikes without taking liberties one can't continue for a race.

[crazy man]

l think the tyres have been the big change . rs125 or gp racing at manfeild have gone from 1.13.8 to 1.13.5 from 1995 till now but bucket never ran the same tire till not that long ago

[TZ350]

Hell my KERG (25hp) finished the Ohakea GP, a visit to Manfield and Ohakune, several Taupos and numerous Mt Welli meets on the same motor and not one blow up.

I don't think the apparent unreliability of the current 2 strokes can be totally put down to all the HP they have 'found' causing extra stress on the motors.

Just my opinion and in my opinion it is the correct opinion...

I think your opinion is right.

We also have had engines that have done many reliable racing miles too.

The current rash of problems are mostly self inflicted learning experiences.

And you tend to get a bit of that when your trying your hand at something new .... :D

[crazy man]

I think your opinion is right.

We also have had engines that have done many reliable racing miles too.

The current rash of problems are mostly self inflicted learning experiences.

And you tend to get a bit of that when your trying your hand at something new .... :Dwhat make of dyno do you have? have you got a pic of it? ta

[husaberg]

Now that is a brave statement.

Oh i forgot you were in the US so no free speech there i guess:innocent:
I was meaning the the four strokes have lifted there game the capacity rules have certainly helped there as well.
They also create huge moving chicanes remember, plus are pretty evenly matched.(to each other)
The chassis have on the whole improved the tyres have moved on greatly as well.
Did you work out the freight cost BTW.
looks like i am at the moment out of the dog box.

PS even Dave agrees with me. So there. (how often does that happen?)


You only have to look at Wellington scene to see that the game has been lifted. I mean it started out low & I had the measure of everyone, but that was some time ago. Are we talking bikes or riders?
The bikes have got better (ok some 2 strokes aside) as stiffer frames, better suspension & brakes. Usable power & a reasonable amount, but largely tyres are streets ahead.
In wgtn; the front end of B grade would have done pretty well in A grade of a few years ago. In A grade qualifying Hamish posted a 41.9. not too long ago we thought 43 anything was the shizzle. I posted a 43.9 on my 50 last saturday. New Tyres help.

[TZ350]

what make of dyno do you have? have you got a pic of it? ta

The Dyno belongs to Chambers and is a DynoJet, maybe 10 years old??? it lives here in the workshop and is pretty handy to have.

[crazy man]

nice toy to have lyeing around . l had a dynojet 150 years ago but sold it .

[Bert]

The Dyno belongs to Chambers and is a DynoJet, maybe 10 years old??? it lives here in the workshop and is pretty handy to have.

wouldn't it be great to have it trailer mounted... :innocent:
you could make a killing at race meetings $20 a go; (one good run then bugger off or pay me more!!)

[husaberg]

wouldn't it be great to have it trailer mounted... :innocent:
you could make a killing at race meetings $20 a go; (one good run then bugger off or pay me more!!)
There was a trailer mounted one in what i think was marsheng youtube bucket clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsEFKYULNDc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsEFKYULNDc

[crazy man]

wouldn't it be great to have it trailer mounted... :innocent:
you could make a killing at race meetings $20 a go; (one good run then bugger off or pay me more!!)maybe we should build one for some fun

[husaberg]

maybe we should build one for some fun
Talk to this guy.http://freespace.virgin.net/dyno.power/burgerbar.htm

Tell him you are Crazyman he will relate to that http://www.nitrous.info/nitrous-kits-designer.htm

[jasonu]

Well I cant argue with the "good platform" bit but some of us have choosen the air cooled 125 platform and we're achieveing power figures some 50% higher than the motorcrossers of the same era, there is no way the Japanese were building in that much tolerance into their parts/materials.

Guys have been makeing double the manufacturers HP output for years. Stock RG50 5-6hp, guys have been makeing 10+hp from these for ever. TF100 around 12HP stock, I had one that dynoed at 21HP, KE125 stock 13HP, mine makes 25 with the 100 cylinder and the Steadman bikes all made 20+HP. Remember these stock figures are manufacturer 'claimed' at the engine http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/suzu/suzuki_ts125%2079.htm compaired to rear wheel dyno results.

I am not saying the new bikes are shit or poorly put together, just that IMO the high HP output is not totally to blame for the recient failures.

[SS90]

There was a trailer mounted one in what i think was marsheng youtube bucket clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsEFKYULNDc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsEFKYULNDc

Thats Grahaem Harris's dyno, been around since about 99 or so, I used to operate that for about 2 years, people just don't like having to pay to watch their bike get revved out anywhere in the world really, which is a shame, because operated with a bit of experience, they are gold.
That one works fine too, no windows software though, and no fudge factor either, but still very consistent.

[jasonu]

And you tend to get a bit of that when your trying your hand at something new .... :D

Yes without trying new things and makeing a few cockups along the way (and hopefully learning from them) nothing would progress.

[kel]

Guys have been makeing double the manufacturers HP output for years. Stock RG50 5-6hp, guys have been makeing 10+hp from these for ever. TF100 around 12HP stock, I had one that dynoed at 21HP, KE125 stock 13HP, mine makes 25 with the 100 cylinder and the Steadman bikes all made 20+HP. Remember these stock figures are manufacturer 'claimed' at the engine http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/suzu/suzuki_ts125%2079.htm compaired to rear wheel dyno results.


Back in the golden era of bucket racing when real men ... :yawn:

[quallman1234]

Thats Grahaem Harris's dyno, been around since about 99 or so, I used to operate that for about 2 years, people just don't like having to pay to watch their bike get revved out anywhere in the world really, which is a shame, because operated with a bit of experience, they are gold.
That one works fine too, no windows software though, and no fudge factor either, but still very consistent.

Yeah someone brang that dyno to NZSBK Round 1 and Round 2. Was 10$ a run.

[jasonu]

Back in the golden era of bucket racing when real men ... :yawn:

and 2 strokes (mostly) finished races...

[RMS eng]

and 2 strokes (mostly) finished races...

and 45 min races at that

[RMS eng]

Well I cant argue with the "good platform" bit but some of us have choosen the air cooled 125 platform and we're achieveing power figures some 50% higher than the motorcrossers of the same era, there is no way the Japanese were building in that much tolerance into their parts/materials. When you exceed the factories abilites by such extreme levels (again Im talking air cooled motors) then you really are pushing the limit as none of the current legal parts we use are designed around an air cooled platform, piston cam being a perfect example. Then we have the programmable ignitions, power jets etc which were unheard of in buckets 10 years ago, extra stress HELL YES!
Things have moved forward Jason the level of design, engineering and smart assembly included. We could detuned the engines for 100% reliability and still smoke the buckets of old but thats a limited goal.
ps. a spare bike also helps with consistently finishing races at or near the pointy end

5 speeds and air cooled motors are a step forward ?,detuning your motors 100% means they will win with 15HP,its fun time

[bucketracer]

I think this is how the recent Pacific club series finished up.

It was won by Rick ... :first: riding his 2-stroke at all four rounds. It was tuned on Team ESE's dyno.
A 2-stroke helped Kel bag :second: Kel rode the Team ESE Monster at Te Puke
And Av on her Team ESE 2-stroke for :third:six wins from six starts. at Tokoroa and Te Puke

Ricks engine was a good example of an original well made old school TF125 that worked OK back in the Day, and after a bit of tuning advice from Team ESE he has made it much easier to ride and faster.

[kel]

Ricks engine was a good example of an original well made old school TF125 that worked OK back in the Day, and after a bit of tuning advice from Team ESE he has made it much easier to ride and faster.

Im still struggling with that part. My sponsor tunes my competitors bike so he can beat me in the final round :scratch: :argh: :bash: theres a few more icons I could use but I probably wouldnt have a ride.

[TZ350]

Guys have been makeing double the manufacturers HP output for years. Stock RG50 5-6hp, guys have been makeing 10+hp from these for ever.

This is Chambers old, old school RG50, I am sure it made a little more power before when he got it. Its done a few miles so probably needs a freshin up still 9hp and 3.5k flat power spread is still a fun ride.

[bucketracer]

and 2 strokes (mostly) finished races...

4 Strokes (mostly) finish races too .... As the Bishop said to the Actress ;)

[jasonu]

4 Strokes (mostly) finish races too .... As the Bishop said to the Actress ;)

Agreed mate but not the point of this (sub)thread that started at post 390

[Buddha#81]

I think this is how the recent Pacific club series finished up.

It was won by Rick ... :first: riding his 2-stroke at all four rounds. It was tuned on Team ESE's dyno.
A 2-stroke helped Kel bag :second: Kel rode the Team ESE Monster at Te Puke
And Av on her Team ESE 2-stroke for :third:six wins from six starts. at Tokoroa and Te Puke

Good results on a kart track......unfortunatly results when it counts.........Taupo anyone?

[crazy man]

4 Strokes (mostly) finish races too .... As the Bishop said to the Actress ;)years ago it was more likey the four stroke would blow up and the 2 strokes always finshed . l remember when kris sheriff's won the first gp on a four stroke it was shock horror that a 4 stroker could win it! l think the 4 strokes off today are such new engines and not so worn out like the shiters back then (buckets)

[F5 Dave]

Taupo what? It's been won by 2 strokes a few times. TZ is obviously learning how not to program an ignition, but that was something we never had to worry about. End result will be a better curve than the old bikes ever had.

My new engine should be reliable, assuming that I get the ign sorted out by stealing from other's experience -if I get the pingas to buy a ignitech.

Now as I said many times in this thread, the bike build was originally flawed. Mike suggested I cover it in concrete. I wish I'd listened. But I didn't have the money then to do much about it. Hopefully I will soon. Leaking cases & trying to use that YZ100 piston with a 14mm rod just spelt compromise. Bearing in mind I'd thrown out my water cooled barrel.

So what did I achieve? Well this throw together bike made good useable power & showed that it was competitive even with this old guy riding it. On the same dyno that showed a peaky 23hp (22 before I put Av in the tank) Steadman KV100 (SI guys will know the bike as Joe) I got 24 with a better spread. & that was at 12k peak.

OK considering the platform basis, but not spectacular as I've seen DaveDs MB's curve & it adds another hp & a better curve to boot, similar revs.

[bucketracer]

Good results on a kart track......unfortunatly results when it counts.........Taupo anyone?

Nathanial was well ahead on his stroker before he dropped it, true, it was not a good day for the strokers generally, still it only gives the 4-strokes a sense of false confidence for next year.

[bucketracer]

Oh I was actually thinking the same thing too, but i believe the quality of competition is higher.Now that is a brave statement.

Husas statement is supported by the fact that the top 9 qualifiers at the Moto4 (Bucket) GP held at Taupo this year were all faster than the existing lap record.

Now you can't get better proof than that, that the quality of competition is higher.

[jasonu]

Husas statement is supported by the fact that the top 9 qualifiers at the Moto4 (Bucket) GP held at Taupo this year were all faster than the existing lap record.

Now you can't get better proof than that, that the quality of competition is higher.

Wouldn't know mate, that (part of the) track didn't exist in the (my) olden days so no times to compare.
I do know that at Mt Welli (a track that hasn't changed) the fastest times are now in the 29 sec range which was unheard of when I was involved (1990-98). A very good time in those days was mid to late 30 seconds IIRC. I can't recall anyone using brand new slicks which I am told are good for the better part of a second a lap compaired to the used and abused rubber we used and there were no RS125 frames being used either.
As for the quality of competition being higher, maybe maybe not, I don't know. There is definitely MORE competition given the large entry levels Buckets attracts and that can only be good for the class.

[bucketracer]

I don't remember Jimmy and Ken Steadmans, Steve Diproses (Rams old bike), David Diproses or Chris Pickets bikes (and others I can't name atm) blowing up enough to say there were unreliable.

It would be a nonsense to think there have not always been small failures, and I suspect that every tuner has his war stories.

[speedpro]

Back in the "good ol' days" I was feeding a new piston to my TS100 every two meetings, preventative maintenance, and probably spark plugs at least as often. Bikes (of mine) were blowing up about as regularly as now. I could have tuned for less power and lasted forever but where's the fun in that? My 22.5hp MB lasted about 6 years without any changes and in the end only blew up when I shifted backwards when already at max revs.

[jasonu]

It would be a nonsense to think there have not always been small failures, and I suspect that every tuner has his war stories.

Agreed mate and that is pretty much what I said in the bit you quoted.

[bucketracer]

I do know that at Mt Welli (a track that hasn't changed) the fastest times are now in the 29 sec range which was unheard of when I was involved (1990-98). A very good time in those days was mid to late 30 seconds IIRC. I can't recall anyone using brand new slicks which I am told are good for the better part of a second a lap compaired to the used and abused rubber we used and there were no RS125 frames being used either.
As for the quality of competition being higher, maybe maybe not, I don't know. There is definitely MORE competition given the large entry levels Buckets attracts and that can only be good for the class.

At Mt Welly, 34 sec has been the cutoff for B grade for a while, now there is talk of making it 32.

I think improved "Quality of Competition" is certainly because of the better equipment available now and the numbers of good riders on the grid, obviously there have always been sharp riders, but now more of them are turning up at Moto4 (affectionately known as Buckets) now days.

As for tuning 2-Strokes, well TeeZee's 30+ hP from a 125 air cooled motor with a fixed ignition and 24mm carb or Speedpros 30 hp MB100 with its water cooled head could have been done back in the day .... but wasn't.

[speedpro]

I think my MB seized at Taupo because Dave was only using part throttle instead of full throttle and the tuning wasn't good enough. I'll get him to thrash it all the time next year though I should have the 36mm carb and TPS fitted by then so hopefully that will fix things.

[jasonu]

years ago it was more likey the four stroke would blow up and the 2 strokes always finshed . l remember when kris sheriff's won the first gp on a four stroke it was shock horror that a 4 stroker could win it

I was there to see that. What a pile of shit and so the story goes it blew up the next time it was ridden. I thought he was a back marker who wouldn't let the leaders pass.

[richban]

Husas statement is supported by the fact that the top 9 qualifiers at the Moto4 (Bucket) GP held at Taupo this year were all faster than the existing lap record.

Well being one of those people I can comment on why I went faster. I was on the sameish bike as the year that the 1:26 was set. I did a crapy 1:29 but was told before I crashed I was doing 1:27 something in the race. This year my fastest time was a 1:25.0 something. Now so what was different from that year to this.

Bike:
Engine internals and exhaust the same. Better carb allowing better top end. Near new rubber allowing way better grip. New RS Wheels and 415 chain. Better direction change and lighter over all. So quite a lot different really.

Rider:
Same weight and fitness but almost 3 years more the wiser. But slightly d tuned on the day with 9 beers the night before. Other GP was just the 4 beers. Competition: More even and lots of young talented light fast riders on well prepared bikes to chase.

Add all that together and you can easy see 3 or 4 seconds.

The bike was down big time on top end speed. I tried twice to get a tow from faster bikes one was Dave T. On a straight bit on full throttle he came past and I swung in behind and he just kept on going. Same ting happen when Andrew A came past in the GP he just blasted past with not tow for me. Weight is the biggest problem there and being down 2 or 3 hp on the old engine.

Problem is I need another 2 seconds. But that has already been found.

Conclusions: The game is being raised all the time. Long may it continue

On paper the 2 strokes have it for sure and always will but luckily bits of paper and talk don't win races. <_<

[bucketracer]

I think my MB seized at Taupo because Dave was only using part throttle instead of full throttle ...

Part throttle ignition setting seems to be what got TeeZee as well.

[jasonu]

As for tuning 2-Strokes, well TeeZee's 30+ hP from a 125 air cooled motor with a fixed ignition and 24mm carb or Speedpros 30 hp MB100 with its water cooled head could have been done back in the day .... but wasn't.

and if they had been built 'back in the day' they would have still dun blowed up and or not made the start or finish of the races as in recient times. That said, if they had been built in the 90's think of what they might be like today with 15+ years of development...
(sorry Mike and TZEE no offence intended)

[bucketracer]

TeeZee says he could build a very fast 4, 4 strokers have always been an interest for him.


On paper the 2 strokes have it for sure and always will but luckily bits of paper don't win races. <_<

But its the challenge of making paper work on the track that keeps him interested in doing it with a 2 stroke.

[bucketracer]

and if they had been built 'back in the day' they would have still dun blowed up and or not made the start or finish of the races as in recient times. That said, if they had been built in the 90's think of what they might be like today with 15+ years of development...
(sorry Mike and TZEE no offence intended)

Actually I had thought of saying, they would have eventually been made reliable but they probably weren't built in the first place because they didn't need to be at the time.

TeeZee and Speedpro are just now taking the first steps to getting this next generation of 25-30 hp 2-stroke development sorted.

[jasonu]

Actually I was going to say, they would have eventually been made reliable but they probably weren't built in the first place because the didn't need to at the time.
.

Possibly. Buckets hit a quite patch entry level wise in the late 90's for a few years. Then came some rule changes and along came the FXR150 and that really woke things up. The smokers had to raise their game cause now there was a (more or less) turn key Bucket Racer that you could win on.

[richban]

After watching Dave M on Mikes bike. No one had a chance if it kept going and he kept it rubber side down. Next years lap record will be a 1:20

[richban]

Possibly. Buckets hit a quite patch entry level wise in the late 90's for a few years. Then came the FXR150 and that really woke things up. The smokers had to raise their game cause now there was a (more or less) turn key Bucket Racer that you could win on.

If they could ride. Don't forget the riders.

[jasonu]

If they could ride. Don't forget the riders.

Na they were a bunch of useless faggs...

[crazy man]

I was there to see that. What a pile of shit and so the story goes it blew up the next time it was ridden. I thought he was a back marker who wouldn't let the leaders pass.kris to me was one of the fastest racers around he had the 125 manfeild lap record to only 2 years ago . we got the bike of him after that buctet gp meeting and dad won the b grade gp at foxton with that engine easy then it gave up and droped the valves. but l know it was lucky to last a meeting at times

[crazy man]

Back in the "good ol' days" I was feeding a new piston to my TS100 every two meetings, preventative maintenance, and probably spark plugs at least as often. Bikes (of mine) were blowing up about as regularly as now. I could have tuned for less power and lasted forever but where's the fun in that? My 22.5hp MB lasted about 6 years without any changes and in the end only blew up when I shifted backwards when already at max revs.what kind of power did you get out of you rgv ts100? l thought at the time it was around 26hp? l know it felt good when you gave me a blat on it

[speedpro]

Mine and Nigels were both designed 5-6 years ago(or more), I just took a lot longer to get mine together.

[speedpro]

what kind of power did you get out of you rgv ts100? l thought at the time it was around 26hp? l know it felt good when you gave me a blat on it

20.2hp - huge disappointment after all the work and years of dyno runs. Quite a good spread though. The original piston port TS100 only made 19.9hp but it had a huge spread of power, better than the RGV/TS crankcase reed. I still got 3rd at the Ohakea GP with the RGV/TS but the scrutineers wanted to disqualify me for cheating when they saw the CF 6-petal reed. Luckily Pete Sales set them straight.

[crazy man]

20.2hp - huge disappointment after all the work and years of dyno runs. Quite a good spread though. The original piston port TS100 only made 19.9hp but it had a huge spread of power, better than the RGV/TS crankcase reed. I still got 3rd at the Ohakea GP with the RGV/TS but the scrutineers wanted to disqualify me for cheating when they saw the CF 6-petal reed. Luckily Pete Sales set them straight.thought it was better than that cause l know you spent a lot of dyno time with it . l dont feel so bad when l dynoed my tf100 at 18.5 hp and that was with no tuning on the dyno . can't wait to start playing around with the old 2 stroke shiters again

[crazy man]

would of liked to know what my sidecar motor put out . that had some up and go. also the water cooled gt50 , l did stick it on the dyno but lost the spark in the first run so it got chucked back in the corner

[husaberg]

... I still got 3rd at the Ohakea GP with the RGV/TS but the scrutineers wanted to disqualify me for cheating when they saw the CF 6-petal reed. Luckily Pete Sales set them straight.


What the heck were they doing in your reed cadge making sure the petals were screwed in tight?

[crazy man]

What the heck were they doing in your reed cadge making sure the petals were screwed in tight?l remember the top 3 always having the top pulled off after every gp

[jasonu]

l remember the top 3 always having the top pulled off after every gp

I got 2nd once and no one pulled off anything of mine...

[crazy man]

I got 2nd once and no one pulled off anything of mine...was that at ohakea l saw them for 2 years cheak them? lm still trying to figure out who you are lol what did you ride back then

[jasonu]

was that at ohakea l saw them for 2 years cheak them? lm still trying to figure out what you are lol what did you ride back then

Yes Ohakea 2nd behind Morley Sherriffs.

[crazy man]

Yes Ohakea 2nd behind Morley Sherriffs.you bike looks so good ,l would of thought l would remember. maybe cause l was into everything then 100s 50s sisecars it was all go then ! now can hardly get a bike going like l'm burn't out .you can pat your self on the back to get behind Morley ! he was dam good

[jasonu]

you bike looks so good ,l would of thought l would remember. maybe cause l was into everything then 100s 50s sisecars it was all go then ! now can hardly get a bike going like l'm burn't out .you can pat your self on the back to get behind Morley ! he was dam good

Yes mate. That whole weekend his bike gave him nothing but trouble, barely turned a lap. But when the flag dropped he was gone. I heard that bike also blew up soon after that meeting...

[speedpro]

Morley made an ignition from a box of bits, he only got it going just before the GP. Not the meeting, before the actual race. It wasn't unusual to drop by his house the day before a meeting to find him looking for a piston in the pile that "might" do for the races the next day. Top rider for sure. He went past me in that GP he won, peeled into the corner and lost the front but somehow saved it. I followed him close enough for a lap to see him do the exact same thing on that corner on the next lap.

[husaberg]

Well if I do rebuild the crank to suit the 16mm piston pin I'd need a rod with a 20mm big pin & 14mm wide. That isn't a common animal from what I can find. Even if I were to shave 1 mm & accept a 16mm wide 20mm rod.


This could open up some options?
MODELMB-100/H-100S W/W
OEM No. -168- CODE No. BH0220B
B.E.BEARING DIA (mm)：Ａ 26.00
S.E.BEARING DIA (mm)：Ｂ 19.00
B.E.& S.E. PITCH (mm)：Ｃ 100.00
B.E.THICKNESS (mm)：Ｄ 14.00
S.E.THICKNESS （mm)：Ｅ 14.00
CRANK PIN DIA (mm)：Ｆ 20.00
CRANK PIN LENGTH (mm)：Ｇ 20.0 X 48.0


VRM Sachs GS-125 SA-224-ECM

A conrod designed to fit the old Sachs GS-125 engines
The crank pin is the conical grinding with a length of 54.5 mm. Suitable for all types of old Monark, Penton Hercules(Hercules was available in road bike or road legal trail bike a road bike) and others.
http://www.bikez.com/pictures/hercules/1979/17287_0_1_2_k%20125%20s_by%20Carlogt68h.jpg.
Hercules K 125 S 1979
Width little end 14.90 mm.
Hole diameter the minor end 19 mm.
Width 14.90 mm thick end.
The crank pin conical shaped 20 x 54.5 x 6 mm.
Thrust washer Bronze 20 x 36 x 0.5 mm.
Hole diameter large end 26 mm.
Con rod center hole distance 110 mm.
little end bearing cage 15 x 19 x 19.40 mm
Big end Bearing Cadge silver 20 x 26 x 14.70 mm

Yes it is a little wider.

Or if you could check the widths this could be a ready made solution and open up some other possibilities for 22mm crank-pined rods
http://www.vespa-lambretta-teile.com/bilder/produkte/normal/Exzentrischer-Hubzapfen-PX-20-mm-Langhub-625-mm.jpg
http://www.vespa-lambretta-teile.com/Exzentrischer-Hubzapfen-PX-20-mm-Langhub-625-mm_1
PL1001 Eccentric crank pins to 62.5 mm stroke for wave PX 200 or PX 125 with 20mm crank pin (std). Outside 20 mm - 22 mm inside. Another connecting rod is additionally required. In 210 he MUST (!!) At least a 1.0 mm (sometimes also reaches 0.8 mm) base gasket is installed so that the top piston ring does not jump out of the raceway. Head work out that way or are working with distances.

[F5 Dave]

Boohoo. My beloved Trialsbike just left on some old meanie's trailer. It taught me a lot of things & was a heap of fun just messing around with. Still, not it means I have some folding for MB rebuild.

Just saw the cases from being welded today. Bit more tickling & they will be ready for action. Will run my RGV carb first up for the start to see that things are hopefully better.

[TZ350]

I don't think the apparent unreliability of the current 2 strokes can be totally put down to all the HP they have 'found' causing extra stress on the motors. A good platform, design, engineering, careful (and smart) assembly and proper maintenance (and SOME cash) has a lot to do with consistently finishing races at or near the pointy end …

I totaly agree …… its not the power, it’s the engineering.


I don't remember Jimmy and Ken Steadmans, Steve Diproses (Rams old bike), David Diproses or Chris Pickets bikes (and others I can't name atm) blowing up enough to say there were unreliable. All of them had atleast 20 hp except for Pickets RG50. Hell my KERG (25hp) finished the Ohakea GP, a visit to Manfield and Ohakune, several Taupos and numerous Mt Welli meets on the same motor and not one blow up.

“Back in the Day” I think a good GN125 4-stroke was probably making 12-14 hp maybe 16 at best and something realy hot might have got 18 tops while good strokers were 18-22 and anything that touched 25 was pretty special.

Now your average GP top ten finishing FXR or CBR 150 is 20-21 hp plus, and a really hot 150 25-27 hp

I don’t think people have realised how far the front running 4-Strokes have come in real terms and what is required from a 2-Stroke to compete with them.

18-22 hp from a 2-Stroke used to be enough, now it looks like 28-32 is required.

Holding ones own against a 27hp 4-Stroke with a 25hp 2-Stroke might be possible, especially if one has a light bike but I would fancy the riders chances more if they were peddling 30 plus.

My take on it is …. “Back in the Day” type 2-Stroke power is just not good enough Now.

Team ESE have been pointing the way. Mike and I are the first to start exploring 30+ hp and others that wan't to be competitive with a 2-Stroke at the next GP need to too.

If you wan't to finish first at the next GP with a 2-Stroke,

Good luck with the engineering required to get there.

[jasonu]

I totaly agree …… its not the power, it’s the engineering.



“Back in the Day” I think a good GN125 4-stroke was probably making 12-14 hp maybe 16 at best and something realy hot might have got 18 tops while good strokers were 18-22 and anything that touched 25 was pretty special.

Now your average GP top ten finishing FXR or CBR 150 is 20-21 hp plus, and a really hot 150 25-27 hp

I don’t think people have realised how far the front running 4-Strokes have come in real terms and what is required from a 2-Stroke to compete with them.

18-22 hp from a 2-Stroke used to be enough, now it looks like 28-32 is required.

Holding ones own against a 27hp 4-Stroke with a 25hp 2-Stroke might be possible, especially if one has a light bike but I would fancy the riders chances more if they were peddling 30 plus.

My take on it is …. “Back in the Day” type 2-Stroke power is just not good enough Now.

Team ESE have been pointing the way. Mike and I are the first to start exploring 30+ hp and others that wan't to be competitive with a 2-Stroke at the next GP need to too.

If you wan't to finish first at the next GP with a 2-Stroke,

Good luck with the engineering required to get there.

All fair comments mate.
If you think the 4 strokes are fast now, watch out when someones gets around to putting one in a pukka GP frame...

[bucketracer]

If you think the 4 strokes are fast now, watch out when someones gets around to putting one in a pukka GP frame...

Its already happened, Andrew A now has his FXR150 engine in a Honda RS250 chassis, he rode it at the GP, started of the back of the grid and very nearly took first place.

[bucketracer]

18-22 hp from a 2-Stroke used to be enough, now it looks like 28-32 is required.

My take on it is …. “Back in the Day” type 2-Stroke power is just not good enough Now.

Team ESE have been pointing the way. Mike and I are the first to start exploring 30+ hp and others that wan't to be competitive with a 2-Stroke at the next GP need to too.

Good luck with the engineering required to get there.

The 2-Strokes are still having to do it with old “Back in the Day” restrictive rules like 24mm carb and air cooling while the 4-Strokes don't.

Its worth remembering that FXR and CBR150's have benifited from 15+ years of Factory Enginering experiance since “Back in the Day”.

As TeeZee says, Good Luck with the Engineering required to get a Stroker up there .....

[F5 Dave]

Its already happened, Andrew A now has his FXR150 engine in a Honda RS250 chassis, he rode it at the GP, started of the back of the grid and very nearly took first place.
Yes & that was a throw together literally finished the week before the GP & even yesterday he is trying to sort it out so he is comfortable. Maybe he won't have the time, he has a new Trials bike to go riding on:bye:, - or rather for Caleb to ride, he has one.

[jasonu]

The 2-Strokes are still having to do it with old “Back in the Day” restrictive rules like 24mm carb and air cooling while the 4-Strokes don't.

.....

The 24mm carb rule is not a 'back in the day' rule. It was introduced when Buckets was struggleing entry wise to allow those who wanted to have a go on summat they may have had lying around ie GP125. The carb restriction was to 'even things up a bit' with the 100cc 2t bikes. Clearly this has worked with Green and TZ getting 30hp+ from their bikes. Now they have to figure out how to make their bikes finish races and that is only a matter of time (hopefully).

[TZ350]

The 24mm carb rule is not a 'back in the day' rule.

I expect it pre dates CBR and FXR150's though and they don't have any similar restrictions at all.


The carb restriction was to 'even things up a bit' with the 100cc 2t bikes. Clearly this has worked with Green and TZ getting 30hp+ from their bikes. Now they have to figure out how to make their bikes finish races and that is only a matter of time (hopefully).

A reliable 30+hp, using what we have to hand, its a bit of a challenge but I am sure we will get there in the end.

I have talked about it before, the mechanical issues seem to stem from the large single exhaust port required for any real power.

Clearly the answer is some sort of multiple port arrangement so the main exhaust port width can be reduced to something sensible.

The simple answer to more reliability is new purpose made cylinders, we could do that but how to do this with single port cylinders dating from the 70's? and in a way that anyone can emulate, now that is the real challenge.

[husaberg]

The 24mm carb rule is not a 'back in the day' rule. It was introduced when Buckets was struggleing entry wise to allow those who wanted to have a go on summat they may have had lying around ie GP125. The carb restriction was to 'even things up a bit' with the 100cc 2t bikes. Clearly this has worked with Green and TZ getting 30hp+ from their bikes. Now they have to figure out how to make their bikes finish races and that is only a matter of time (hopefully).

Yes but the four stroke will still have numbers on their side and i don't see that changing in any hurry.
(I am refering to the shear number of four strokes not the age of competitors ie Mike and Rob.)
The FXR150 are at the moment an affordable solution, but as they get older, The donor parts will have a lot of hours on them. Then boom.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=256982&d=1328590658&thumb=1http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=256985&d=1328590626&thumb=1http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=256984&d=1328590637&thumb=1http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261367&d=1333519378&thumb=1http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261366&d=1333519376&thumb=1http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261387&d=1333526339&thumb=1http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=256904&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1328517206

Well I would certainly rather fix up a seized 2 stroke than a blown four stroke any day.

[crazy man]

The 24mm carb rule is not a 'back in the day' rule. It was introduced when Buckets was struggleing entry wise to allow those who wanted to have a go on summat they may have had lying around ie GP125. The carb restriction was to 'even things up a bit' with the 100cc 2t bikes. Clearly this has worked with Green and TZ getting 30hp+ from their bikes. Now they have to figure out how to make their bikes finish races and that is only a matter of time (hopefully).l do kind of remember you now i was only new to bucket racing at the time but do remember what the hell is that bike of yours it looked so cool even today it is right up there! l know in the first 5 years of buckets so meany types of bikes were built ! do you remember the flat 4 two stroke that the pistons fired againts each other? it did not go that good on the day but the guy said it when like a rocket in a gokart

[Yow Ling]

Just get a CBR150, they cheap enough
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=466672132

[speedpro]

do you remember the flat 4 two stroke that the pistons fired againts each other? it did not go that good on the day but the guy said it when like a rocket in a gokart

Neil's uniflow 100 cc twin. 2 crankshafts, 4 pistons, brushcutter conrods($2 ea?). Did all the castings himself. The motor was good for 20,000rpm or somethng silly like that, could be wrong though but it certainly revved lots. Very clever dude.

He made a 500cc version for an autogyro. I've got a video of when he fired it up for the first time floating round here somewhere.

[crazy man]

Neil's uniflow 100 cc twin. 2 crankshafts, 4 pistons, brushcutter conrods($2 ea?). Did all the castings himself. The motor was good for 20,000rpm or somethng silly like that, could be wrong though but it certainly revved lots. Very clever dude.

He made a 500cc version for an autogyro. I've got a video of when he fired it up for the first time floating round here somewhere.l remember him saying he made it on a drill mill prity good going! never did see the 500

[koba]

Neil's uniflow 100 cc twin. 2 crankshafts, 4 pistons, brushcutter conrods($2 ea?). Did all the castings himself. The motor was good for 20,000rpm or somethng silly like that, could be wrong though but it certainly revved lots. Very clever dude.

He made a 500cc version for an autogyro. I've got a video of when he fired it up for the first time floating round here somewhere.

Please post more info if you can! I love the idea of something like that!
I've really geek out over non-schnule two stokes.

[husaberg]

Please post more info if you can! I love the idea of something like that!
I've really geek out over non-schnule two stokes.
Wasn't there a story in Kiwi rider or twin eagle in the mid 90's?

[F5 Dave]

Twin Eagle?:confused: I'm assuming that's some big boys ghey custom mag?

Beside Mal was more likely reading Spiderman comics in the mid 90s.

[F5 Dave]

My beloved Trialsbike just left on some old meanie's trailer. . .

Haha! I just saw the reference on my bank statement. It has a reference of 'Old Meane' :laugh: Guess he casts an eye over this thread occasionally.

[husaberg]

Twin Eagle?:confused: I'm assuming that's some big boys ghey custom mag?

Beside Mal was more likely reading Spiderman comics in the mid 90s.

I would obviously not know as much as you do Dave, about the big "Ghey custom Boys"
But i do know the mag i mention while having a lot of Hardy Davidsons.
But did have some other interesting NZ brewed stuff.

I have read about the engine somewhere and didn't grow up in the Northern island so it has been mentioned somewhere.
So Dave here is a Big Ghey Ducati for ya. So i guess you were always suspicious of the Italians.
It was in Twin eagle.


Anyways, I'm not using any queer daigo carbs, or buying jets, or making them. I am short

[jasonu]

I expect it pre dates CBR and FXR150's though and they don't have any similar restrictions at all.
.

Isn't the fact they are four strokes restriction enough...

[jasonu]

l do kind of remember you now i was only new to bucket racing at the time but do remember what the hell is that bike of yours it looked so cool even today it is right up there! l know in the first 5 years of buckets so meany types of bikes were built ! do you remember the flat 4 two stroke that the pistons fired againts each other? it did not go that good on the day but the guy said it when like a rocket in a gokart

Yes mate I remember seeing that bike at the GP. Dissapointing that it didn't run that day.

[jasonu]

Haha! I just saw the reference on my bank statement. It has a reference of 'Old Meane' :laugh: Guess he casts an eye over this thread occasionally.

Lucky you didn't call him a cock sucker.

[Grumph]

Back in the day, Euan Cameron, ex racer and damm good photographer, did the occasional article for Twin Eagle...

He was the first into print to blow away the Britten myth of "one man in a shed" - Named names and described the workshop setup.
Pretty much what the hard core race crew in ChCh already knew - but not the official Britten line at the time.

Ironic it was in a Harley mag....

[F5 Dave]

I would obviously not know as much as you do Dave, about the big "Ghey custom Boys"
. . .
Well clearly, you do, I wasn't the one buying the magazine matey potatie, you were,

- I just guessed what it was about from the name, Sounded very US orientated with all this Eagle stuff. Sad that some other countries want to emulate the States' culture.

Only Twins i admit to owning are my RZs, although it could be argued my 500 has a lot of American bits, but I doubt it would be suitable for their target market.


Why are you showing me Ducatis? yawn.

[husaberg]

Well clearly, you do, I wasn't the one buying the magazine matey potatie, you were,

- I just guessed what it was about from the name, Sounded very US orientated with all this Eagle stuff. Sad that some other countries want to emulate the States' culture.

Only Twins i admit to owning are my RZs, although it could be argued my 500 has a lot of American bits, but I doubt it would be suitable for their target market.


Why are you showing me Ducatis? yawn.
Really it was an article from the Ghay Twin Eagle Mag Dave 2+2. It fitted the point cause it was Kiwi home built and as you say Diago
While it did have a fair bit of Powder puff Harley's It did have some interesting kiwi sport and classic bike's and stories in it.

[F5 Dave]

Well stage 2 begins. After the rod nicely slotted the back of the barrel & generally made a mess the plans for new crank are under way with a slight destroke. KT piston hit my desk this morning & a CR stator are on the way.

Cases need some Devcon filling where they've been welded but tried to keep weld to a min to avoid porosity.

[F5 Dave]

Stator arrived & it looks spiffy.

[husaberg]

Twin Eagle?:confused: I'm assuming that's some big boys ghey custom mag?

Beside Mal was more likely reading Spiderman comics in the mid 90s.

Was he really reading spider-man comics in rthe mid 90's i also see you were in the results Dave?

[Kickaha]

Colin Buckley who won the sidecars went on to win the NZ F1 Sidecar title a year or two later and lined up for a round of the world champs at Phillip island which was rained out, I see it also says it was only the third win for a four stroke in 14 years

[husaberg]

I see it also says it was only the third win for a four stroke in 14 years


I wonder what it is now. Must be nearly level?. Even if the rules are stacked in favour of the 4 four strokes now.:msn-wink:

[F5 Dave]

Well things are coming on quite nicely. Cases are 90% done I reckon, only another 30% more work to do to them:lol:. Grinding a pin looks the easy way to destroke. Have bits to bore barrel. Just have to match up a manifold & spigot & devcon the reedblock assembly.

Looked at removing the std RS front engine down bars, but decided against it. So easy to mount the rad & ign coil & CDI to & doesn't get in the way. Can't be more than 300g so will stay for the medium future.

I've bored the welded onto cases engine mounts to fit RG50 vibration inserts that I've taken out to 10mm. Next is put it together with new parts & weld on some mounts to the frame. Thanks to MikeC & MikeG & Brent for help & ideas.

First I'll run it with the 32mm RGV carb & RS ign. Then graft on a CR stator & ignitech & look at the mondo KX125 carb. Once I have power (CR stator) I'll weld some jackets & add the electric pump.

Then race it. Then start to build the barrel I really wanted to create those 16yrs ago.

[F5 Dave]

Cases are now 95% sorted, only another 20% to go.

Well not to refit the engine in the frame while I'm waiting for engine bits. Frame mounts need to change & I find myself backed into a corner. I have to start from first principles again & I find myself questioning all the references previous as to what was straight & in line with the chain etc. This engine transplant lark is sometimes easy as, or a real bear.

I also found a crack in the old mounts, so super bracing is on the agenda. This bit I could do without, I'd rather it just fit & I concentrate on engine building, but necessary evil & means time off work & a friendly welder to be drafted in once I have sorted my poos in a pile & made some ally bits to make the mounts (after the cardboard templates).

One side will need a steel bracket as the mount is too close to the engine sticky out bit & then bolt on to a couple of bosses welded to the frame. Easier that changnig the engine mounts & space is tight that way anyway.


Bike will go back together with CR ign & RGV carb & the pipe I was running so I have a constant I can test against even though I have a new bigger carb & ignitech with some fun ideas to play with like det sensors etc.