Warning- for when you up the pace.

[beyond]

Let the naysayers butt out here and now.......
I don't care who you are or how long you have been riding or how much you tell people you do not speed.... if you are a motorcyclist you are going to push the boundaries at some time and at some place.

That is a cold hard fact!

This is a warning so you know what to expect when you do up the pace. You may be riding along nice and carefully and someone shoots past and you feel like a play and twist the throttle and tuck in behind.

You might be on a group ride with a lot of experienced riders and all of a sudden you get caught along with a more rapidly paced ride.

You might be having an awesome ride all on your own and everything comes together beautifully... like being right in "the zone" (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=102234)
and you start going faster and quicker than before.

When you up the pace, your bike starts to behave differently and you need to be aware of what is taking place:

1. Centrifugal forces start to come into play at far greater levels the faster you go. This means you need to "muscle" the bike more and counter steer harder to drop it into corners. The faster you go the more likely you are to swing wide which means on a right hander you might end up doing some unwanted gardening, or on a left hander you become a bonnet badge on someones oncoming vehicle.
On some bikes, at speeds above a certain level, this extra muscling required can cause head shake which if you are not aware at what level this creeps in, you can lose control. It is important you do not tense up but steer the bike into the corner with a light grip on the bars so the bike can have it;s way.
The moment you tense up you will end up exacerbating any issues.

2. The faster you go the more time will be compressed which means things happen very quickly. You need to be fully alert and continually scanning the road ahead as far as you can see while keeping an eye on the road surface and things happening in close proximity In short... you better have bloody good reflexes which means no drugs, drink or lack of sleep induced weariness. If you aren't in the right frame of mind do not twist that throttle.

3. You need to be able to brake faster, harder and with more control and smoothness than ever before because when things go wrong they go wrong very quickly at speed. You really need to have rehearsed in your mind what you would do if any number of things were to happen. Have in mind an escape route, do not panic, do not let the adrenaline rush allow you to do anything stupid. Control the rush, keep an even state of mind, look where you want to go, aim for the gap, if you know you won't stop in time, then plan a safer exit point. Prempt another drivers directions and plan to move a different way if they change their minds.

4. Your bike needs to be top notch. Brakes and pads up to scratch, tyre pressures correct and suspension sorted for your weight and height.

5. This isn't a licence to speed but before you push the boundaries you need to know the boundaries of your own mental state and your bike before you decide to twist that throttle and give it a go. I don't care what anyone has to say but you are going to twist that throttle at some time and you better be ready for it. Practice on quiet roads in areas where you will not end up paying for John Keys lunch.

You will learn a hell of a lot about how your bike handles and reacts when pushed because I can assure you right now the harder you ride the more different your bike will handle and for some that aren't aware, it WILL scare the shit out of you.

Be warned and be prepared.

[Katman]

I don't care who you are or how long you have been riding or how much you tell people you do not speed.... if you are a motorcyclist you are going to push the boundaries at some time and at some place.



A lot of us don't come on here and wank on about it though.

[CookMySock]

I think that type of skill should be developed in a safe environment before being put into use on the road.

While that is interesting to read, and I don't disagree with you technically, but I think it's dangerous and innappropriate to suggest to non-racers that they can just abide by your five simple instructions and they are in the ball-park. I don't think they will be anywhere near the ballpark.

This is the reason why ACC should sponsor trackdays - so people so inclined can have a burst on the track and develop some skills safely.

Perhaps once they have said skills, it might be forgivable to operate on public roads with them, but not to experiment and develop them.


Steve

[2wheeldrifter]

If you didn't all ready know that....................

You shouldn't be riding bikes! :done:

[beyond]

True but if I can come on here and NOT wank about it and perhaps prepare a few for what might happen, there might be a lot less casualties.

Why oh why do you always have to put down a post that may have positive repercussions for some?

[beyond]

If you didn't all ready know that....................

You shouldn't be riding bikes! :done:

A lot of people don't know this when they first start to push their bikes which is why we have so many accidents.

[Katman]

True but if I can come on here and NOT wank about it

Let us know when you do.

[beyond]

Let us know when you do.

Just did if you were reading.

[Katman]

Just did if you were reading.

Quite frankly Paul, the likes of you wanking on about pushing your boundries and finding 'the zone' is what causes a large percentage of Motorcycling's accidents.

[YellowDog]

Personally I do think this is a good post as it is addressing something quite wrong that happens on a regular basis. The results of which are ofen tragic.

Yes ACC should sponsor track days. It is the only safe place to practice new skills and needs to be accessible to all..

[beyond]

I think that type of skill should be developed in a safe environment before being put into use on the road.

While that is interesting to read, and I don't disagree with you technically, but I think it's dangerous and innappropriate to suggest to non-racers that they can just abide by your five simple instructions and they are in the ball-park. I don't think they will be anywhere near the ballpark.

This is the reason why ACC should sponsor trackdays - so people so inclined can have a burst on the track and develop some skills safely.

Perhaps once they have said skills, it might be forgivable to operate on public roads with them, but not to experiment and develop them.


Steve

Trouble is Steve, most people will not go on the track and most people will at some point in their life speed and push the pace when riding. Many accidents result from riders on their own just going straight off corners and this is why.

[MadDuck]

Quite frankly Paul, the likes of you wanking on about pushing your boundries and finding 'the zone' is what causes a large percentage of Motorcycling's accidents.

Can you present some numbers to substantiate this claim? I would be intrigued to see them.

[Katman]

Trouble is Steve, most people will not go on the track

Is that because you might be shown up to be only average?

[CookMySock]

Trouble is Steve, most people will not go on the track and most people will at some point in their life speed and push the pace when riding. Many accidents result from riders on their own just going straight off corners and this is why.Well I agree with you bro. I actually did exactly what you warn about.

Maybe you are right. You make valid points. But I stand by my statement - get on the track and do the development, then put it in practice on the road.

A trackday is only a hundred bucks. Do it.


Steve

[beyond]

Quite frankly Paul, the likes of you wanking on about pushing your boundries and finding 'the zone' is what causes a large percentage of Motorcycling's accidents.

You on your own again tonight mate? Wanking seems to be at the forefront of your vocabulary but FYI I'm happily married so don't have to wank.

I say again... anyone who owns a motorbike is going to up the pace and you saying they won't unless they read about it is pure and simple bullshit. If they know what to expect then they are less likely to be one of those ACC stats where a lone rider has decided to go bush.

Instead of shoving tips back down the throats of people that give them... why don't you just get with the program or start you own site on tips on how to wank.

[beyond]

Well I agree with you bro. I actually did exactly what you warn about.

Maybe you are right. You make valid points. But I stand by my statement - get on the track and do the development, then put it in practice on the road.

A trackday is only a hundred bucks. Do it.


Steve

Totally agree. Wish everyone would spend a hundy and learn some valid points... I really do.

[beyond]

Is that because you might be shown up to be only average?

Don't care if I'm average or below average. Just enjoy my riding at my pace mate.
I nearly did a track day the other Sunday except the weather was shite and I wanted a good dry track for a fang but will look at doing the next one. Come if you're keen and let me see your above average riding.

[Mom]

Quite frankly Paul, the likes of you wanking on about pushing your boundries and finding 'the zone' is what causes a large percentage of Motorcycling's accidents.

So, a post on a web forum, by a member of kiwibiker, beyond in this instance, will cause a large percentage of motorcycle accidents? "Dont be silly darling".

People ride their own ride, whether they are see posts on KB or view youtube videos.

I have watched many videos on here and youtube, of riders doing shit I would never do, and have never been once tempted to do the same. I also read widely on this forum. I am yet to read anything that will alter the way I ride.

This was a really silly post of yours Katman. Blew some credibility out of the water. Go and read what you posted again.

[Katman]

You on your own again tonight mate? Wanking seems to be at the forefront of your vocabulary but FYI I'm happily married so don't have to wank.



Don't make me post up a selection of your posts showing your penchant for wanking on about pushing your limits.

[normajeane]

Sounds too technical for me. What i know is if it feels right, i do it. Wind in your hair and all that. Perhaps I am showing my age or something. i do know that there are a few good riders out there in KB and the real world that if they whizzed past me i would not attempt to follow them, even though i may have tried. Life is short but you get less game as you get older (at times!) Still feeling the thrill of a little more acceleration is akin to your heart beating faster (linked??) and i know that i like it!<_<:Punk:

[MadDuck]

People ride their own ride, whether they are see posts on KB or view youtube videos.


Nah you are so wrong Mom. Tomorrow I am heading to Hamilton (which is quite boring I hear) and riding my Harley over some kick arse bridge thing :innocent:

Just because I read it can be done on KB. Give us people credit Katman - we read - we apply or not.

[beyond]

Don't make me post up a selection of your posts showing your penchant for wanking on about pushing your limits.

Dig them up by all means. It merely shows my passion and enjoyment of riding but doesn't make me a wanker. That's something you seem to know more about than me :whistle:

[CookMySock]

People ride their own ride, whether they are see posts on KB or view youtube videos.

I have watched many videos on here and youtube, of riders doing shit I would never do, and have never been once tempted to do the same. I also read widely on this forum. I am yet to read anything that will alter the way I ride.Thats just you though.

Many people will read the tips, and go try it. Not wise IMO.. Not without an instructor on their tail providing constant feedback.

Even racing pocketbikes provides important lessons.

Steve

[beyond]

Nah you are so wrong Mom. Tomorrow I am heading to Hamilton (which is quite boring I hear) and riding my Harley over some kick arse bridge thing :innocent:

Just because I read it can be done on KB. Give us people credit Katman - we read - we apply or not.

Now thats real funny :) Just don't go getting your name in the Waikato Times alright. :)

[Katman]

Dig them up by all means. It merely shows my passion and enjoyment of riding but doesn't make me a wanker. That's something you seem to know more about than me :whistle:

Your whole philosophy is based on placing an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

That's a fucked up idea.

[beyond]

Thats just you though.

Many people will read the tips, and go try it. Not wise IMO.. Not without an instructor on their tail providing constant feedback.

Even racing pocketbikes provides important lessons.

Steve

Quantified: I don't mean they go riding from a real low level to full throttle nut case in one go.

I do mean they stretch their legs a little to see how much more differently their bike handles as the pace creeps up a bit. Gradual steps or step only so they know what happens and what changes. This is safe to do on a wide road with no other traffic around and if someone doesn't want to go on the track, this is the best way to learn without being thrown in the deepend.

[beyond]

Your whole philosophy is based on placing an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

That's a fucked up idea.

Incorrect.... my whole philosophy.. if you really care to read my posts correctly.... are to prevent needing an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff in the first place.

In simpler terms... as you seem to have trouble understanding (might be all that wanking) is that to be forewarned is to be prepared and that knowledge gives power, the power not to do the wrong thing when the chips are down.

[2wheeldrifter]

A lot of people don't know this when they first start to push their bikes which is why we have so many accidents.

Yeah that's true I guess, you have to lay it out for the lowest common denominator.

[Katman]

Incorrect.... my whole philosophy.. if you really care to read my posts correctly.... are to prevent needing an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff in the first place.



No, if that were the case you'd be suggesting that motorcyclists should always ride well within their limits - rather than pushing them.

[MadDuck]

Can you present some numbers to substantiate this claim? I would be intrigued to see them.


No, if that were the case you'd be suggesting that motorcyclists should always ride well within their limits - rather than pushing them.

I know I should give it up but I just cant. Do you care to respond to my question katman?

[bogan]

......
You will learn a hell of a lot about how your bike handles and reacts when pushed because I can assure you right now the harder you ride the more different your bike will handle and for some that aren't aware, it WILL scare the shit out of you.

Be warned and be prepared.

His post was obviously aimed at making people think about the dangers of riding faster, and consider them when/if they decide to twist the throttle a bit more.

Maybe those who have just seen some motogp will read this and not try and chuck an elbow down straight away, instead will gradualy build up to it.

For all those who think posts should be censored in case they encourage someone to behave dangerously, htfu, look around, surely we live in too much of a nanny state already, stop making it worse!!!!

[Kiwi Graham]

Fukin ek Steve!
You were on Pauls case within 7 mins of his post'! Your like a praying mantis mate.

I agree with DB to an extent. The best place to gain this knowledge is the controled enviroment of the circuit in the form of track days or better still advanced rider training days ;)
However if there is someone out there able to pass on their experience to someone (Beyond in this case) then good on ya. Not everybody is going to venture onto the track for some top notch advice and experience, but as paul has stated there is a fair chance anyone with a bike is at some point going to find themselves in the position he has highlighted and maybe if they have taken on board what has been said are able to react appropriately then maybe one less statistic.
I guess you could take the niave view that talking about it encourages it but the real world dictates otherwise

[beyond]

No, if that were the case you'd be suggesting that motorcyclists should always ride within their limits - rather than pushing them.

I am a realist and chose not to live in Fantasy Land. No one I have ever met who rides a motorbike has never pushed the limits or upped their own pace. Nearly everyone I have met has had a close call or accident through pushing it.

It's time you left Alice back in Wonderland and began to realise that just about everyone who owns a bike is simply not going to go slow because you say so and nearly everyone of them is not going to go faster and do dum arse things because they saw it on Youtube or read about it on a forum.

[Katman]

I know I should give it up but I just cant. Do you care to respond to my question katman?

Ahhh, no.

Let me lose some of these infraction points first.

[Genestho]

Look Steve, come on, how can you not see the merits of this Thread?

[AllanB]

While track days are realistically the best place to hoon, there are many reasons people don't do them. This does not make them poor or ill practised riders on the street, indeed there are some extremely skilled road riders out there who's track involvement is limited to buying lukewarm hotdogs and getting sun-burnt while watching a race.:whistle:
On the other side of the coin I have seen skilled track riders treating public roads like a race track with no allowance given for a bit of gravel/pot hole/camper van etc mid corner on a blind bend. Silly speeds.:crazy:

The original post is good and relevant as a reminder to keep alert when 'pushing-on' regardless where you are.

[boomer]

Quite frankly Paul, the likes of you wanking on about pushing your boundries and finding 'the zone' is what causes a large percentage of Motorcycling's accidents.


Which hat did you pull this Gem out of?!

:rofl:

Seriously you're full of it.





<hgvhgvhjv>

</hgvhgvhjv>

[mossy1200]

One day I woke up to the fact the 100k zone was fine for the road if you own a bike that feels fun to ride at 100.
The erogenous zone is on the track.
Personal opinion only"Latest sports bikes are to easy to ride fast therefore are not fun to ride at moderate speeds".

[Katman]

Look Steve, come on, how can you not see the merits of this Thread?

Because I can place it alongside his videos of his own irresponsible riding.

[beyond]

Because I can place it alongside his videos of his own irresponsible riding.

Shit, I put a lot of time and effort into those videos but yes... I can see they may be a little mediocre.

[boomer]

Nice post Paul



You will learn a hell of a lot about how your bike handles and reacts when pushed because I can assure you right now the harder you ride the more different your bike will handle and for some that aren't aware, it WILL scare the shit out of you

Feeling the chassis twist and contort, on the k7 thou, that time with you, Logan And Ben was an unforgettable moment. Adrenaline infused shenanigans :wari: Something that's never happened on a smooth track

[beyond]

Nice post Paul




Feeling the chassis twist and contort, on the k7 thou, that time was an unforgettable moment. Adrenaline infused shenanigans :wari: Something that's never happened on a smooth track

Yep, that would scare the shit out of you alright :)

[Genestho]

Because I can place it alongside his videos of his own irresponsible riding.

Yea, I know what you're saying but! Beyond is also showing responsibilty for those actions eh? He's educating! He's obviously learnt stuff, I don't think giving him shite is condusive!

[MadDuck]

Yep, that would scare the shit out of you alright :)

Yeah well Boomer is easily scared :sunny:

[Katman]

Yea, I know what you're saying but! Beyond is also showing responsibilty for those actions eh? He's educating! He's obviously learnt stuff, I don't think giving him shite is condusive!

No, he's not.

He's trying to justify his own manner of riding.

[boomer]

Yeah well Boomer is easily scared :sunny:


like a bunny wabbit

[Genestho]

No, he's not.

He's trying to justify his own manner of riding.
Mother should I build a wall?

[beyond]

No, he's not.

He's trying to justify his own manner of riding.

Eh? Short circuit somewhere here I think. Lets see if I can connect the blue to neutral and the brown to live.
I've just clocked over 60,000kms on two 1400's which I've ridden at a rate that eats rear tyres at around 4,000kms. Justify my riding?

I just love riding. I just love riding the way I want to ride and I don't think I need to justify the way I ride to anybody, same as you don't need to justify to me the way you ride or why you feel the need to wank.

Each to their own..... good thing about the human race is that we are all different... thank God for that!

[boomer]

Mother should I build a wall?

NO, Just stay inside and dont pay any attention to the noise outside... it will go away.




Fark... i bet you're glad the internet came along Katman, so you could order everything IN without EVER going OUT !

[sondela]

No, he's not.
He's trying to justify his own manner of riding.

Everyone has their own manner of riding, but we all face the same dangers, a word of caution to the less experienced can't be considered justification for any particular form of riding..

It's just a hint and a warning, and no one is experienced enough as a biker to afford to not be cautious.

Keep it up Beyond :D

[Kiwi Graham]

No, he's not.

He's trying to justify his own manner of riding.

For fucks sake Steve!

The guy's offering advise, whats your problem?

Any thread Beyond puts up, any post he comments on you you take an opposing view!?

Build the proverbial and get over this fixation you have with him.

[Brian d marge]

Fck me I can do all of this at 100km/h will the wonders of the modern age never cease

Facts

People in the Maldives Islands cant drive

Indian, cant drive

Rednecks defiantly cant drive

God is English http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWKy4RHf5tQ

The speed limit in NZ is 100km/h

many accidents happen well under the speed limit

and finally

Driving / riding is much more than the control of the bike ........ try reading the traffic


Carry on

Stephen


Ps

I am married and and if was for wanking my sex life would be non existent

[2_SL0]

I may of drunk far to much beer tonight, but anyway, Katman, I have a simple couple of questions for you?

Why do people ride motorcycles?

If you removed the percentage of people that ride because of the buzz they get from riding, would the industry survive in its current form?


I hear lots of people raving on about riding safe and doing this and that, yet these very same people depend on this percentage of people that they constantly lecture to, to make a living. If we were to all ride so sedately we would not require all the safety gear that shops sell, we would not want or need the new bikes, fancy exhausts, performance components. Lets be honest the track users in NZ, DO NOT support the motorcycle industry in NZ, it relies on the very people you constantly harass, pull your head out your ass mate. Without this group there would not be an industry.
Why the hell do you think such motorcycles as the GSXR are manufactured.

[Winston001]

I'm a bit perplexed at the angst in this thread but assume there are historic issues.

I can't see anything wrong with Beyond's point. We do ride fast. Nothing wrong with pausing and reflecting on the gamut of consequences.

I'm sure track days are a good thing but.......3 hours on a beautiful smooth surface with everyone going the same way......?? Real world roads are rough, uneven, corners decrease in radius, grit, and there is other traffic.

[Katman]

Why the hell do you think such motorcycles as the GSXR are manufactured.

Why do you think our ACC levy is so high?

My livelihood depends on live motorcyclists.

[2_SL0]

Why do you think our ACC levy is so high?

I think you missed the point, I believe you should raise your concerns with Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha, oh bugger it, the whole damn motorcycle industry they have obviously been targeting the wrong market.

Either that or I strongly recommend you get out of motorcycles and take up lawn bowls.

I've read your crap for a number of years and to be honest, its generally just that, CRAP.

What is your profession, I am truly intrigued?

oh and to answer your question:

Because motorcycles are deemed dangerous, which can be validated by the previous years high ratio of accidents, did you not know this, damn dude you better take up lawn bowls.

[Katman]

What is your profession, I am truly intrigued?



Brain surgeon.

[Maha]

Yeah well Boomer is easily scared :sunny:

Thats because he is half female, those pills give you bumps in the most unlikely of places...:confused:

[mossy1200]

One day I woke up to the fact the 100k zone was fine for the road if you own a bike that feels fun to ride at 100.
The erogenous zone is on the track.
Personal opinion only"Latest sports bikes are to easy to ride fast therefore are not fun to ride at moderate speeds".

Ill quote myself since no one else did.


Why do you think our ACC levy is so high?

My livelihood revolves around live motorcyclists.

ACC levy is high cause those who think they can Rossi the road all the time meet up with Sunday cage driver at some point and cant react quick enough for the speed that their bike could travel a split second earlier.
Excessive speed is like a lottery.Your number come up at some point.The faster you go the bigger combo ticket you have purchaced.

[2_SL0]

Brain surgeon.

I actually know a brain surgeon, he is a very smart man, you def are not a brain surgeon. :bye:

[Katman]

I actually know a brain surgeon, he is a very smart man, you def are not a brain surgeon. :bye:

Ok, you've busted me.

I'm a porn star.

[2_SL0]

Ok, you've busted me.

I'm a porn star.

Really, thats so kewl dude. I didnt know Gay porn was filmed in NZ. :shit:

Each to their own.

[Katman]

Each to their own.

I knew you'd understand.

:love:

[2_SL0]

I knew you'd understand.

Thanks, Im flattered, but I don't bat for that team. But I do have an open mind and except people for what they, pity you dont.

[Vern]

Well I agree with this post as it does no harm. Unfortunately for some people there is not a $100 dollars in the budget for the track days which would be beneficial. When I was young if you went to speedway you got carried away on the way home and you were silly and I think there is a bit of that in us all. Now that I am well into my sixties that spirit has been lost as I no that I could not keep up without coming to grief now. Vern

[Brian d marge]

I think you missed the point, I believe you should raise your concerns with Suzuki, Kawasaki, Honda, Yamaha, oh bugger it, the whole damn motorcycle industry they have obviously been targeting the wrong market. .

I can answer that

No they haven't targeted the wrong market , its a market they have nurtured , and Horsepower sells

The companies are as guilty as sin of " a lack of responsibility " over the horsepower game but

The old adage what wins on Sunday sells on Monday ,

but at the end of the day, the bottom dollar is king !

For a second... look at the Japanese car market, Here young people in Tokyo don't want cars ( no point ) , so the industry is focusing on the suburbanites and the "people movers " , ,, Go to any motor show and that's where the action is ,,,,,not in your super cars, ( top gear wouldn't work...in a seven seater people mover, funnily enough,,,,,)




Stephen

[Qkkid]

Don't care if I'm average or below average. Just enjoy my riding at my pace mate.
but will look at doing the next one. Come if you're keen and let me see your above average riding.

I think KATMAN would be shown up to being very average Paul :bleh: so dont swett about him mate :niceone:
Im sure you would give him the learn on the track in style:msn-wink:

[bsasuper]

People die on motorbikes, no news here,people who take risks know what could happen,thats life.

[puddy]

Quite frankly Paul, the likes of you wanking on about pushing your boundries and finding 'the zone' is what causes a large percentage of Motorcycling's accidents.
Yup! I think you're spot on there Katman. Last accident I had was in '91, and I'm pretty sure that it was Paul's fault. I didn't meet Paul until about '06, but it must have been his fault!:yes: I'm absolutely sure that it had squat to do with the fact that I was riding on an unfamiliar road with guys who knew the road well etc etc etc ......
SHIT KATMAN, IF YOU'RE NOT ON DRUGS, YOU SHOULD BE!(And might help with that wee wanking problem too. Good luck with that):bye:
As you were Paul!:rockon:

[Maki]

Well I agree with this post as it does no harm. Unfortunately for some people there is not a $100 dollars in the budget for the track days which would be beneficial. When I was young if you went to speedway you got carried away on the way home and you were silly and I think there is a bit of that in us all. Now that I am well into my sixties that spirit has been lost as I no that I could not keep up without coming to grief now. Vern

$100 dollar track day? Your $ must buy more than mine given that a track day will take a lot out of your tires, you may want an oil change after your track day and you will use quite a lot of fuel.

I am sure that the costs for a track day are closer to $500 than $100....

[James Deuce]

There's no such thing as centrifugal force.

Simple:
http://www.spsobserver.org/articles/point_of_physics_03.pdf

Vastly more detailed:
http://books.google.com/books?id=rJTQxITnkbgC&pg=PA292&lpg=PA292&dq=Motorcycle+angular+momentum&source=bl&ots=DXfPGjbSrB&sig=9nmV_lum1Dg1DMiNzdMf_IEqyGg&hl=en&ei=9R2sSrT_E8eCkQXflaWVBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#

[bogan]

There's no such thing as centrifugal force.

Simple:
http://www.spsobserver.org/articles/point_of_physics_03.pdf

Vastly more detailed:
http://books.google.com/books?id=rJTQxITnkbgC&pg=PA292&lpg=PA292&dq=Motorcycle+angular+momentum&source=bl&ots=DXfPGjbSrB&sig=9nmV_lum1Dg1DMiNzdMf_IEqyGg&hl=en&ei=9R2sSrT_E8eCkQXflaWVBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#

centrifugal force is defined as the force acting in an opposite direction to the centripetal force, ie the force acting outwards from a mass in a centrifuge. The two are often confused, and the name usually only refers to the direction, not the magnitude.

[SMOKEU]

A trackday is only a hundred bucks. Do it.


Steve

$100 for a trackday?! I got a full day on the track at Ruapuna for free. I just didn't pay when I showed up.

[Katman]

I'm absolutely sure that it had squat to do with the fact that I was riding on an unfamiliar road with guys who knew the road well etc etc etc ......


And that's the problem right there - going out riding with a group of riders that encourage (or indirectly cause) you to outride your capabilities. Paul makes no secret of the fact that he thinks motorcyclists should be encouraged to push their boundries on public roads.

I say that sort of thing should be actively discouraged.

[2_SL0]

And that's the problem right there - going out riding with a group of riders that encourage (or indirectly cause) you to outride your capabilities. Paul makes no secret of the fact that he thinks motorcyclists should be encouraged to push their boundries on public roads.

I say that sort of thing should be actively discouraged.

I've ridden with Paul, I have never felt pressure to push my boundries, I ride my ride, Paul rides his. Dude you talk utter crap.

[MDR2]

People die on motorbikes, no news here,people who take risks know what could happen,thats life.

They don't have to die on bike though do they? I mean, if i was faced with the option of tipping into a sweeping uphill left hander at 100k and coming out the other end honky dorey revved up for the next corner OR tipping in at 120 losing it and slidding under the wheels of an on coming cars wheels eventually dying of internal bleeding and chocking on my own blood for a few minutes with the driver of the car standing over me powerless and crying (heh, sorry if i ruined your day lady, i was having so much fun though)


I know which I would choose

:sherlock:

[James Deuce]

centrifugal force is defined as the force acting in an opposite direction to the centripetal force, ie the force acting outwards from a mass in a centrifuge. The two are often confused, and the name usually only refers to the direction, not the magnitude.

Most physicists would disagree with you. One is an almost colloquial term referring to the perceived effects of spinning an object, the other describes one of the forces acting on a moving motorcycle's wheels.

[Swoop]

...pushing your boundries and finding 'the zone' is what causes a large percentage of Motorcycling's accidents.
It is nice to see that unsubstantiated claims are part of your forte.

Your whole philosophy is based on placing an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

That's a fucked up idea.
Quite the opposite in fact. Preventing the need for an ambulance in the first place, appears to be the reason for the opening post. I'm sure as a "mentor" you will support this action.

For fucks sake Steve!

The guy's offering advise, whats your problem?

Any thread Beyond puts up, any post he comments on you you take an opposing view!?

Build the proverbial and get over this fixation you have with him.
I bet you are glad to be grouped in with this fellow "mentor"...

[bogan]

Most physicists would disagree with you. One is an almost colloquial term referring to the perceived effects of spinning an object, the other describes one of the forces acting on a moving motorcycle's wheels.

meh, terms posses only the meaning they are given, physicists can get all upity if they want, but many people know the outwards force as centrifugal, so i have no problem calling it that.

[James Deuce]

Yeah, but it doesn't exist. Let me know when you manage to get stuff to radiate outwards from the centre of a spinning object, cos you may have invented a perpetual motion machine.

[sondela]

meh, terms posses only the meaning they are given, physicists can get all upity if they want, but many people know the outwards force as centrifugal, so i have no problem calling it that.


Err..may the force(s) be with you :D

[short-circuit]

Eh? Short circuit somewhere here I think.

Erm yes? Can I help you?

[bogan]

Yeah, but it doesn't exist. Let me know when you manage to get stuff to radiate outwards from the centre of a spinning object, cos you may have invented a perpetual motion machine.

this guy seems to have it sorted

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vTy_LASO6Mk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vTy_LASO6Mk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

sorry if we are hijacking the thread a bit :Offtopic: , but it seems like it was done anyways

[beyond]

Erm yes? Can I help you?

LOL :)

Thanks for the support all. Sometimes I feel like an old medieval villager in the stocks getting rotten fruit thrown at me. But... then again... I confess to liking fruit so keep it coming :)

[Maha]

LOL :)

Thanks for the support all. Sometimes I feel like an old medieval villager in the stocks getting rotten fruit thrown at me. But... then again... I confess to liking fruit so keep it coming :)

Is a coconut a fruit? cos they would fricken hurt!!!....;)

[James Deuce]

this guy seems to have it sorted

sorry if we are hijacking the thread a bit :Offtopic: , but it seems like it was done anyways
You'll note that the victims are flung off at a tangent to the direction of travel, not from the centre of the manual merry-go-round.

Centripetal force.

Centrifuge is a product name.

[Ixion]

Is a coconut a fruit? cos they would fricken hurt!!!....;)

No, a coconut is a Polynesian islander. The term is a euphemism for nigger.There are fruity ones. They have a special name for them. Something with a f an l and a totally inordinate number of u and a . But it would probably hurt to have a coconut thrown at you, they mostly weigh a lot.

[Squid69]

While that is interesting to read, and I don't disagree with you technically, but I think it's dangerous and innappropriate to suggest to non-racers that they can just abide by your five simple instructions and they are in the ball-park. I don't think they will be anywhere near the ballpark.

Steve

To me it looks like he is saying make sure your bike and mind are in the ballpark.
perhaps you need to work on making your brain put what your eyes are seeing into the CORRECT ball park...

[Maha]

No, a coconut is a Polynesian islander. The term is a euphemism for nigger.There are fruity ones. They have a special name for them. Something with a f an l and a totally inordinate number of u and a . But it would probably hurt to have a coconut thrown at you, they mostly weigh a lot.

Have you ever been to a Fafafini throwning competition??

[bogan]

You'll note that the victims are flung off at a tangent to the direction of travel, not from the centre of the manual merry-go-round.

Centripetal force.

Centrifuge is a product name.

well actually they are throw off at a tangent to the spinning disk, but if you view it from the disks perspective they are thrown off radially initially because the discs spin and tangental velocity of the mass (numptys in this case) cancel out. Think about it, high speed cornering in a cage you are pushed outwards toward the outside of the corner, not forwards or backwards at a tangent to the path.

Centrifugal force.

Most people know exactly what is meant by it, and thats what a name is for!


Anyway, this talk of coconuts is much more interesting, you would certainly need to rethink you cornering strategy and pace if someone were throwing coconuts at you, for both the fruit and the polynesian islander variety

[Viscount Montgomery]

These posturing wet-behind-the-ears squids are so fucking clueless. Anyone who sits behind a computer and writes an 'instuctional essay' on racing public roads just has to be a TOTALLY CLUELESS young-ass git. These are the shitheads who've fucked our motorbike regos and acc charges forever.


It's the usual fucked-up mentality you'll always get from spotty faced know-alls. "We ride fast and push the boundaries" "Makes us cool" "Not everyone can do what we do" All the typical posers' bullshit and drivel. "It's fine for us to race public roads coz we're a skilled elite group of people and we're fully in control of our own destiny" wank wank wank.

"We don't advise it for everyone though, you'll need to be fully aware and experienced skillfull riders like we are" wank wank wank.

When you TOTALLY CLUELESS arseholes find your life consists of staring at hospital ceilings most days, FUCKED FOR LIFE, you'll wake up, BUT TOO LATE...

Again, these strutting dimwit 'road racers' are heading for a big fucking fall, it's only a matter of time. But don't worry about it, it'll never happen to you, you're just too skillful & special for that aren't ya?? And it won't matter if you snap your necks or cave your skulls in - coz you'll be LEGENDS and everyone will be thinking of you 24 hours a day, all wishing they could be legends like you too... Repeat --TOTALLY FUCKEN CLUELESS

[Katman]

These posturing wet-behind-the-ears squids are so fucking clueless. Anyone who sits behind a computer and writes an 'instuctional essay' on racing public roads just has to be a TOTALLY CLUELESS young-ass git. These are the shitheads who've fucked our motorbike regos and acc charges forever.


Oh, how I miss being able to hand out some well deserved green.

Truth is, the OP is old enough that he should know better.

[Grahameeboy]

LOL :)

Thanks for the support all. Sometimes I feel like an old medieval villager in the stocks getting rotten fruit thrown at me. But... then again... I confess to liking fruit so keep it coming :)

Keep it up geezer............

[MSTRS]

Truth is, the OP is old enough that he should know better.

He is, and he does. He is not glorifying Rossi behaviour on public roads...he simply understands that one of the reasons (the main one?) that people get into riding is the thrill it can supply, and extrapolates that thrill....If it is great at 95kph, then it is going to be better still at 105kph, etc.
The strange thing about that is generally no-one tells 'you' that the higher speed comes with a greater cost in terms of what it takes to control what's happening. Not to mention the greater cost of getting it wrong. I don't see what Beyond wrote as encouraging anyone to ride that way...rather, it is aimed as a warning for those that haven't and most likely will at some stage.

Put in simple terms, and not mentioning the centri- words, motorcycles are best going in a straight line, they resist changing direction, and the faster the straight-line speed the greater that resistance. Motorcyclists, however, are the opposite, because that's where the thrills and satisfaction lie, and they'd best be prepared for the exponentially greater effort required as the speed increases.

[Katman]

He is not glorifying Rossi behaviour on public roads...

His videos say otherwise.

[MSTRS]

Whatever. Other threads...other reasons. Not this one.

[Mekk]

There are too many factors surrounding "upping the pace" that are subjective and cannot possibly be applied to everyone.

I would look with skepticism at anybody who heeds this advice and seriously considers applying it to their own riding.

[Katman]

Whatever. Other threads...other reasons. Not this one.

That's your problem John. I can't even stretch to calling you two-dimensional.

[MSTRS]

There are too many factors surrounding "upping the pace" that are subjective and cannot possibly be applied to everyone.

I would look with skepticism at anybody who heeds this advice and seriously considers applying it to their own riding.

You what? Greater speed involves greater forces requires greater effort and skill/concentration to control. Good warning...not 'advice'

[FJRider]

There are too many factors surrounding "upping the pace" that are subjective and cannot possibly be applied to everyone.

I would look with skepticism at anybody who heeds this advice and seriously considers applying it to their own riding.

Multiple factors are the danger .... each on their own are not a big problem. Combined ... havoc potential. :crazy:

I would look in bloody amazement .... :eek5:

[Mekk]

You what? Greater speed involves greater forces requires greater effort and skill/concentration to control. Good warning...not 'advice'

In saying that all motorcyclists push boundaries is "a cold hard fact", the OP is suggesting that anyone can control a motorcycle at higher speeds so long as they know what they are doing.

I disagree.

[MSTRS]

That's your problem John. I can't even stretch to calling you two-dimensional.

How you see me and others here is your problem. Even two dimensional is a 100% improvement on one dimensional....

[Katman]

How you see me and others here is your problem. Even two dimensional is a 100% improvement on one dimensional....

That's where you're mistaken John.

I'm seeing the whole picture here. You're only seeing what you want to see.

[yungatart]

I must be blind..I don't see anything in Beyond's original post that would incite me to go out on a public road thinking I could ride like Rossi...or even one of KB's infamous squids.
But then I also know Mstrs is much more than two dimensional :whistle:
Katman...please show me exactly what you mean...I hate being ignorant ..almost as much as I hate being a slow rider

[yungatart]

That's where you're mistaken John.

I'm seeing the whole picture here. You're only seeing what you want to see.

So he is not one-dimensional, only one-eyed?

[Mom]

almost as much as I hate being a slow rider

Meh, you ride the roads you know really well Tarty, dont call yourself slow. What I read in this thread is that there is a heap of stuff that can go wrong very fast if you do over ride your skills, and that you need to be aware of those things.

Me, I am liquid lightening on the blue lovely when she is going well! Nothing, but nothing beats the thrill I get every time I get out there and ride :D

[Katman]

So he is not one-dimensional, only one-eyed?

If you say so.

[oldrider]

What i know is if it feels right, i do it.

Don't know about the rest of this thread but that quote does it for me! :whistle:

[Mekk]

I must be blind..I don't see anything in Beyond's original post that would incite me to go out on a public road thinking I could ride like Rossi...or even one of KB's infamous squids.
But then I also know Mstrs is much more than two dimensional :whistle:
Katman...please show me exactly what you mean...I hate being ignorant ..almost as much as I hate being a slow rider

It's the suggestion that anybody can handle higher speeds on public roads as long as they're prepared and know what they're doing.

It's a bit like American Idol making people think they can all be singing sensations too.

Why do you hate being a slow rider?

[Bonez]

Don't know about the rest of this thread but that quote does it for me! :whistle:You rebel you.

[Winston001]

Is a coconut a fruit? cos they would fricken hurt!!!....;)

Coconut?? Where'd you get that then? The coconut is a tropical fruit. New Zealand is a temperate country!

Unless......perhaps a sooty shearwater carried it here, that might work......:yes:

[Ixion]

Have you ever been to a Fafafini throwning competition??

Ah, that's the word I was looking for. A most disconcerting coconut.

[FJRider]

Don't know about the rest of this thread but that quote does it for me! :whistle:

It would rank alongside ... it seemed like a good idea at the time. :whistle:

[yungatart]

That's pretty much how I read it too, Mom!

Both accidents I have had were low speed...entirely my own fault...both times I was "riding my own ride" and was not pushed out of my comfort zone by anyone else, by any post I had read on here, nor was I attempting to show off, gain kudos, impress anyone or push my boundaries.

I happen to get my thrills from increasing my skill level in tiny little increments...but the grin factor is huge. :yes:

[Winston001]

meh, terms posses only the meaning they are given, physicists can get all upity if they want, but many people know the outwards force as centrifugal, so i have no problem calling it that.

I have to agree with James - centrifugal is a fictional force. However I also agree with you because I find it much easier to think of outward action than inward tension. And your point about the perspective from the disk is well made. :yes:

[Ixion]

He is, and he does. He is not glorifying Rossi behaviour on public roads...he simply understands that one of the reasons (the main one?) that people get into riding is the thrill it can supply, and extrapolates that thrill....If it is great at 95kph, then it is going to be better still at 105kph, etc.
..

I disagree. That is correct up to a point, but only up to a point.

Passing over a stretch of road at X kph is fun. Doing so a bit faster is more fun. And faster still, more fun still. But there comes a point of diminishing return, and then reverse benefit. Where going faster is no longer more fun. The ride has turned into a wrestling match, the spidey sense is shrieking full time , survival instincts are bellowing, oncoming traffic is terrifying.

Not fun. And not safe. And very exhasuting if maintained for any time.

Every bit of road has its natural speed (which will vary of course for different riders, different bikes, different conditions). The speed at which one is "pushing it", working ones skills and bike to a harmonious totality. In the zone. Under that speed is actually LESS safe, over it definately less safe.

Of course it has absolutely no relation to any speed limit. And there are roads in ZN where that speed could be over 200kph.

I never speed because I never push beyond the "feels right, feels good, feels challenging but in control " point. Well, I do, becasue you only realise that you've gone beyond by going beyond it, so to speak. But that's when a wise man buttons off and slips back into the zone.

[Katman]

I happen to get my thrills from increasing my skill level in tiny little increments...but the grin factor is huge. :yes:

And if everyone took that attitude into their motorcycling experience we would not have anywhere near the degree of problems we are faced with now.

It's when people dangle a mystical and euphoric 'zone' in front of inexperienced and easily swayed motorcyclists that the real danger all too often becomes a tragic reality.

[bogan]

I have to agree with James - centrifugal is a fictional force. However I also agree with you because I find it much easier to think of outward action than inward tension. And your point about the perspective from the disk is well made. :yes:

the main point i was trying to make is that we have come up with all these names for things in order to communicate with each other, the fact that the majority of people know a exactly what is meant by centrifugal force makes it non-fictional, you can't use it in an equation which is why physisists dont like it, but everyone else knows what it is so its ok to use it i reckon

[Mom]

Everyones personal zone is a different place from the next person. I find my personal zone (and test my limits from time to time) everytime I go out and about.

[boomer]

i just went crazy.. and rode in the rain; Watching beyond spinning it up.

[Mekk]

Everyones personal zone is a different place from the next person. I find my personal zone (and test my limits from time to time) everytime I go out and about.

And some people don't have "zones" and should not be encouraged into thinking they do or can.

[boomer]

And some people don't have "zones" and should not be encouraged into thinking they do or can.

Everyone has there own comfort zone u monkey....

fark some people haven;t got a clue.

[Vern]

$100 dollar track day? Your $ must buy more than mine given that a track day will take a lot out of your tires, you may want an oil change after your track day and you will use quite a lot of fuel.

I am sure that the costs for a track day are closer to $500 than $100....

Yeah thanks for that Maki I really did not take into account of fuel, oil and other associated cost's. I have never been to a track day and just took the $100 from what I had read. Vern:Oops:

[Mekk]

Everyone has there own comfort zone u monkey....

fark some people haven;t got a clue.

I like how the first sentence speaks to me while the second one stops, looks back at the general population as if to say, "Right guys?".

[2_SL0]

i just went crazy.. and rode in the rain; Watching beyond spinning it up.

Bugger I missed the ride, did you film it for Katman?

[MSTRS]

I disagree. That is correct up to a point, but only up to a point.

Passing over a stretch of road at X kph is fun. Doing so a bit faster is more fun. And faster still, more fun still. But there comes a point of diminishing return, and then reverse benefit. Where going faster is no longer more fun. The ride has turned into a wrestling match, the spidey sense is shrieking full time , survival instincts are bellowing, oncoming traffic is terrifying.

Not fun. And not safe. And very exhasuting if maintained for any time.

Every bit of road has its natural speed (which will vary of course for different riders, different bikes, different conditions). The speed at which one is "pushing it", working ones skills and bike to a harmonious totality. In the zone. Under that speed is actually LESS safe, over it definately less safe.

Of course it has absolutely no relation to any speed limit. And there are roads in ZN where that speed could be over 200kph.

I never speed because I never push beyond the "feels right, feels good, feels challenging but in control " point. Well, I do, becasue you only realise that you've gone beyond by going beyond it, so to speak. But that's when a wise man buttons off and slips back into the zone.

Quite so. Diminishing returns in the grin factor is a big warning to back off. Now. Better not to get to that point, anyway. And certainly don't get to it in one big leap. There bee Dragons....
Like YT said, little increments is good. Lets a rider gain experience and develop their ability in manageable steps.
BUT if a bigger bite is taken in one go...then expect a commensureably bigger requirement in terms of rider input. ie A 20% increase in speed requires a 30% increase in rider reactions. Which is sort of what Beyond was saying.

[Katman]

Bugger I missed the ride, did you film it for Katman?

Meh, I don't need to see a video.

Boomer's already indicated it's level of wank factor.

[boomer]

I like how the first sentence speaks to me while the second one stops, looks back at the general population as if to say, "Right guys?".


i don;t need approval from anyone mate.. my opinion stands on its own.

You don't have the brains or common sense you were born with...!

[2_SL0]

Meh, I don't need to see a video.

Boomer's already indicated it's level of wank factor.

I have a couple of serious question for you Katman,

Your in the industry?

Do you own a shop?

Who is your customer base?

Do you share you strong opinion with your customer base?

Does all your customer base share YOUR opinion?



Apologies for hijacking thread.

[boomer]

Boomer would be lost without his little monkeys.


You're right.. im so lacking in self esteem and confidence i come onto KB looking for approval and acceptance...!


:woohoo:

[Katman]

Do you share you strong opinion with your customer base?

Absolutely.

[beyond]

These posturing wet-behind-the-ears squids are so fucking clueless. Anyone who sits behind a computer and writes an 'instuctional essay' on racing public roads just has to be a TOTALLY CLUELESS young-ass git. These are the shitheads who've fucked our motorbike regos and acc charges forever.


It's the usual fucked-up mentality you'll always get from spotty faced know-alls. "We ride fast and push the boundaries" "Makes us cool" "Not everyone can do what we do" All the typical posers' bullshit and drivel. "It's fine for us to race public roads coz we're a skilled elite group of people and we're fully in control of our own destiny" wank wank wank.

"We don't advise it for everyone though, you'll need to be fully aware and experienced skillfull riders like we are" wank wank wank.

When you TOTALLY CLUELESS arseholes find your life consists of staring at hospital ceilings most days, FUCKED FOR LIFE, you'll wake up, BUT TOO LATE...

Again, these strutting dimwit 'road racers' are heading for a big fucking fall, it's only a matter of time. But don't worry about it, it'll never happen to you, you're just too skillful & special for that aren't ya?? And it won't matter if you snap your necks or cave your skulls in - coz you'll be LEGENDS and everyone will be thinking of you 24 hours a day, all wishing they could be legends like you too... Repeat --TOTALLY FUCKEN CLUELESS

Errmmm, you miss out on something last night or get out of the wrong side of your bed?
I am assuming that you are referring to my post, as in the one at the beginning of the thread?
I just love the way somebody reads a post and goes off into la la land and spouts a whole lot of crap based on erroneous perceptions.

1. I'm not young, spotty faced or an arsehole. Last time I looked in the mirror I saw neither and especially a date in the middle of a bum.

2. Instructional essay? Not at all.... just a warning to help prevent further unnecessary accidents for those that "WILL" at some stage push it without knowing what may happen.

3. Race public roads, cool riders, better than everyone else? Doubt it mate.
I never advocate racing on public roads, have never organised marshalls on every corner and chequered flags at the stops. I am also fully aware that there are heaps of riders out there way better than me and don't give a rats arse how others think I ride, wether it is slow or fast. Who bloody cares.

4. You don't have to have a motorbike accident to stare at hospital ceilings all day. There's heaps of other things around just as nasty that will do that for you.

5. At the end of the day, who the hell ripped your nighty that you think you can get on here and poke your stick at someone who is trying to help others live a little longer by making them aware of what might happen under certian situations. If you want to bury your head in the sand then don't teach any future kids you might have on what to do when they cross the road or you might make them aware of what might happen if they do.

Oh, sorry, if you wank on so much the chances of having kids are somewhat diminished.

At the end of the day people ride bikes for the feeling of freedom, the thrill of riding and the excitement. Otherwise we would all drive cars and bikes would never sell.

Get real.

[Mekk]

Everyone has there own comfort zone u monkey....

fark some people haven;t got a clue.

Look, having a comfort zone means that you think that when you're in it that you are not going to be hurt or are at least less likely to be, something that is impossible to know sans crystal ball.

Sorry, motorcycles and nature and that fuckwit who has had too much to drink don't take your comfort zone into account when they take you out.

It's ridiculous to apply that thinking to everyone and justify speeding by working yourself into the thought that as long as you're prepared it will all be OK.

Some people will be prepared and will be OK, some people will be prepared and be sliced in half by a telephone pole.

[2_SL0]

Absolutely.

Your lack of answers for the other questions has certainly clarified something for me. Thanks.

[Ronin]

How you see me and others here is your problem. Even two dimensional is a 100% improvement on one dimensional....

The way I understand it, if he was one dimensional then he would be a point right? Please tell me that doesn't mean that he has one....

[Katman]

Your lack of answers for the other questions has certainly clarified something for me. Thanks.

You mean the last question that you added after I'd posted?

What they think of what I say to them is entirely their business.

[beyond]

Look, having a comfort zone means that you think that when you're in it that you are not going to be hurt or are at least less likely to be, something that is impossible to know sans crystal ball.

Sorry, motorcycles and nature and that fuckwit who has had too much to drink don't take your comfort zone into account when they take you out.

It's ridiculous to apply that thinking to everyone and justify speeding by working yourself into the thought that as long as you're prepared it will all be OK.

Some people will be prepared and will be OK, some people will be prepared and be sliced in half by a telephone pole.

You're quite right but missing the point mate. It is better to be prepared in order to help minimise any possible negative problem. The zone is not a place of safety and you can be riding at 10kmh and be taken out or killed anyway. I don't think anyone on here is going to accept that if you speed and do certian things you are going to be okay.... to accept that on a motorbike means we have just moved from the realm of life to fantasyland.

[MSTRS]

The way I understand it, if he was one dimensional then he would be a point right? Please tell me that doesn't mean that he has one....

Ooooh...you are right. I meant to say 2 dimensional, both sides being the same. Whereas the rest of us 2 dimensional critters at least have differing sides.
There's something about a 1 note song. Isn't there?

[Mom]

And some people don't have "zones" and should not be encouraged into thinking they do or can.

I disagree! Strongly actually!

Everyone has a zone, the place that gives them ultimate pleasure and that really cool feeling on 2 wheels. Now your zone and mine may well be different, in fact I will go as far as to say they will be completely different.

Picture a learner, first bike and a brand new permit to go and learn how much fun motorcycling can be. Scarey shit some may say. Others blast out from the start and dont actually find their own zone without making a huge mistake, possibly one that means pain. Pain can come in many forms, wallet by way of fines, demerit points for breaches and other naughtyness, and even physical pain from injuries sustained.

So, back to the learner without the balls to the wall kick start here for a moment. They are not confident about hill starts. They are hard to achieve without a lot of practise for some. This learner has several hills to negotiate on their way to work or school or what have you. Each day they struggle, overthinking the hows and what should I's of making that hill start without stalling and holding up other traffic. One day it "clicks" for them. Instant hillstart, each and everytime. It happens without effort or thought, all of a sudden they are in the zone. They feel so fantastic! Such a cool feeling!

Dont ever be lulled into thinking the "zone" is anything to do with speed, or being a wanker on the road. The ZONE is all about being in a place on your ride that makes you feel at one with your bike, and the road you are travelling.

[boomer]

Look.... blah blah blah


Are you a school teacher?

[2_SL0]

You mean the last question that you added after I'd posted?

What they think of what I say to them is entirely their business.

5 questions, I added one, you answered one. The silence on the ones you didnt answer was interesting.

That statement above "What they think of what I say is entirely their business" is a little out there for attracting aftersales/follow up customer business. I would hazard a guess your business is not in Auckland, and possibly has little competition.

[boomer]

Are you a school kid?

i'd heard you like little boys but unfortunately i'm probably a little old for you!

[Katman]

That statement above "What they think of what I say is entirely their business" is a little out there for attracting aftersales/follow up customer business. I would hazard a guess your business is not in Auckland, and possibly has little competition.

You would have no idea.

[beyond]

Are you a school kid?

Not last time I checked. Actually he is a very mature person with a lot of responsibility who has recently faced some severe trials which you probably would never know anything about. He has come through a better man as a result and is a good careful rider who does not take risks.

But you wouldn't know because even though you have been invited to actually meet us for a ride you never show up. Why would that be I wonder... cos you might find out we are actually quite normal and ride because we enjoy it and then you'll have to find someone else to throw shit at online.

[boomer]

5 questions, I added one, you answered one. The silence on the ones you didnt answer was interesting.

That statement above "What they think of what I say is entirely their business" is a little out there for attracting aftersales/follow up customer business. I would hazard a guess your business is not in Auckland, and possibly has little competition.


hes the grumpy short arse with the only bike shop in Taupo. I got a rear tyre in there once, grumpy didn't have a sense of humour face to face either.... a right miserable cnut.

[Katman]

I got a rear tyre in there once,

Really? Didn't you have the balls to introduce yourself?

[boomer]

Really? Didn't you have the balls to introduce yourself?


lol funny you should mention that, my balls were about your chin height..!


No i didn't, you weren't known to me then or rather i didn't know of your online persona. Nothing to do with balls... :lol:

[Katman]

lol funny you should mention that, my balls were about your chin height..!


No i didn't, you weren't known to me then or rather i didn't know of your online persona. Nothing to do with balls... :lol:

You're so full of shit.

[beyond]

You're so full of shit.

The ultimate answer........

[Bonez]

You're so full of shit.

:corn::corn::corn::corn:

[boomer]

You're so full of shit.


You're right.. im scared of you, more so now i know you like little boyz...!

[bogan]

Speaking of impressionable newbies, perhaps there should be a disclaimer for those joining this site.

Warning: Some people on this site are not of sound mind, and will try and interpret all posts to be detrimental to bikers as a whole, inflammatory posts of this type should be immediately ignored.

To recognize such posts we offer the following tips.
1) if it reads like bullshit, it is
2) if there appears to be no logic applied in the generation of such post, there probably isnt
3) if its a pisstake that makes you lul, apply bling
C) temper all advice with personal experience, not all kb'ers are wise

maybe border it with some yellow/black angled bars to show how important such a message is, as you can never be too careful with noobs

[boomer]

You're like one of those little hand bag dogs; nibbling away at people ankles whilst they talk and get on with life; every now and again getting a response as someone tries to shoe you away..

You're pretty harmless, a little annoying and think you deserve all the attention in the room !

[short-circuit]

You're pretty harmless, a little annoying and think you deserve all the attention in the room !

PROJECTION ALERT: The only worse attention whore than you on KB that I'm aware of is Craver - but he'll openly admit that

[2_SL0]

You're like one of those little hand bag dogs; nibbling away at people ankles whilst they talk and get on with life; every now and again getting a response as someone tries to shoe you away..

You're pretty harmless, a little annoying and think you deserve all the attention in the room !

Nibbling or trying to mount for some dog on leg action.

[MarkH]

You'll note that the victims are flung off at a tangent to the direction of travel, not from the centre of the manual merry-go-round.

Centripetal force.

Centrifuge is a product name.

Isn't Centripetal force the inward force that makes something go around in a circle? Surely those people were flung off because the centripetal force failed to do the job and they succumbed to 'inertia' - the tendency for an object in motion to carry on in a straight line (hence the tangential direction of travel).

You are right of course that there is no centrifugal force, just inertia vs centripetal force.


centrifugal force is defined as the force acting in an opposite direction to the centripetal force, ie the force acting outwards from a mass in a centrifuge.

That is just daft - if this outward force did exist then the object that was subjected to both centripetal & centrifugal force would travel in a straight line. It is because the centripetal force is not matched that the direction of travel changes. In a centrifuge the mass inside is trying to move straight ahead due to inertia and is pulled around in a circle by centripetal force.


When riding a motorcycle the mass tends to go straight and if the tyres can't supply enough centripetal force to make the mass of bike and rider go around the corner then they will go straight off the corner.

Centripetal force = real
Inertia = real
Centrifugal force = doesn't exist, never has

[2_SL0]

You would have no idea.

Really I think Im bang on. Certainly from what you portray online.

[bogan]

Isn't Centripetal force the inward force that makes something go around in a circle? Surely those people were flung off because the centripetal force failed to do the job and they succumbed to 'inertia' - the tendency for an object in motion to carry on in a straight line (hence the tangential direction of travel).

You are right of course that there is no centrifugal force, just inertia vs centripetal force.



That is just daft - if this outward force did exist then the object that was subjected to both centripetal & centrifugal force would travel in a straight line. It is because the centripetal force is not matched that the direction of travel changes. In a centrifuge the mass inside is trying to move straight ahead due to inertia and is pulled around in a circle by centripetal force.


When riding a motorcycle the mass tends to go straight and if the tyres can't supply enough centripetal force to make the mass of bike and rider go around the corner then they will go straight off the corner.

Centripetal force = real
Inertia = real
Centrifugal force = doesn't exist, never has

yes you're technically accurate, the point i was trying to make is that the masses understand what centrifugal force is, therefore giving it meaning, (most probably know what centriugal force is rather then centripetal) therefor it was perfectly ok for beyond to use this term in his original post.

Ill put it this way, is there anyone who didnt know what beyond meant when he refered to centrifugal force?

[puddy]

I've ridden with Paul, I have never felt pressure to push my boundries, I ride my ride, Paul rides his. Dude you talk utter crap.
+1!
Sorry Katman, love to chat but I'm just watching some music vids and playing X Box and I now feel a strong compulsion to grab the Glock out of the cupboard and pop a cap in somebody's ass then steal a car and get into a police chase!(wonder if I could use this stuff as a defence???......Paul, Snoop Dog and Grand Theft made me do it!:whistle:)

[madbikeboy]

You might be on a group ride with a lot of experienced riders and all of a sudden you get caught along with a more rapidly paced ride.


When you up the pace, your bike starts to behave differently and you need to be aware of what is taking place:

1. Centrifugal forces start to come into play at far greater levels the faster you go. This means you need to "muscle" the bike more and counter steer harder to drop it into corners. The faster you go the more likely you are to swing wide which means on a right hander you might end up doing some unwanted gardening, or on a left hander you become a bonnet badge on someones oncoming vehicle.
On some bikes, at speeds above a certain level, this extra muscling required can cause head shake which if you are not aware at what level this creeps in, you can lose control. It is important you do not tense up but steer the bike into the corner with a light grip on the bars so the bike can have it;s way.
The moment you tense up you will end up exacerbating any issues.

2. The faster you go the more time will be compressed which means things happen very quickly. You need to be fully alert and continually scanning the road ahead as far as you can see while keeping an eye on the road surface and things happening in close proximity In short... you better have bloody good reflexes which means no drugs, drink or lack of sleep induced weariness. If you aren't in the right frame of mind do not twist that throttle.

3. You need to be able to brake faster, harder and with more control and smoothness than ever before because when things go wrong they go wrong very quickly at speed. You really need to have rehearsed in your mind what you would do if any number of things were to happen. Have in mind an escape route, do not panic, do not let the adrenaline rush allow you to do anything stupid. Control the rush, keep an even state of mind, look where you want to go, aim for the gap, if you know you won't stop in time, then plan a safer exit point. Prempt another drivers directions and plan to move a different way if they change their minds.

4. Your bike needs to be top notch. Brakes and pads up to scratch, tyre pressures correct and suspension sorted for your weight and height.

5. This isn't a licence to speed but before you push the boundaries you need to know the boundaries of your own mental state and your bike before you decide to twist that throttle and give it a go. I don't care what anyone has to say but you are going to twist that throttle at some time and you better be ready for it. Practice on quiet roads in areas where you will not end up paying for John Keys lunch.

You will learn a hell of a lot about how your bike handles and reacts when pushed because I can assure you right now the harder you ride the more different your bike will handle and for some that aren't aware, it WILL scare the shit out of you.

Be warned and be prepared.


Okay, I started reading through all 11 pages of fucking shite, and since my head started hurting, I skipped back to the beginning to the OP.

Beyond, I actually reckon you've posted something useful. This has application to everyone here that has ridden in a group, a little (or a lot) beyond their own limits. Understanding the warning signs has to make more sense than ignoring them.

This has as much application to Fucktard born agains (no disrespect intended) as boys on sportsbikes who have been riding for a while.

I'm an advocate for track days (and plenty of them), but you can improve skills with a mentor and a controlled environment. This is a complex sport that is brutally darwinian - the smart and the lucky (sometimes not the same thing) survive longer (most of the time). Knowledge and humility also seem to help with longevity.

[Pussy]

Knowledge and humility also seem to help with longevity.
A worthy point!
Sadly not followed by many

[madbikeboy]

hes the grumpy short arse with the only bike shop in Taupo. I got a rear tyre in there once, grumpy didn't have a sense of humour face to face either.... a right miserable cnut.

And you're sweetness and light?

Steve's a great guy to have a beer with.

[Danae]

I totally agree with mbb

Thanks for the post, beyond. I'm a newbie, only been riding since may and rode a scooter since february. I've been on a few rides and each time i am naturally pushing a bit harder, taking corners just that tiny bit faster. Simply because i have had more and more practice.

I have heard a lot of good things about trackdays but I am still learning, don't have a race bike and don't have the money for the expenses. I would go if i could. Since i can't, i will use the open road, unexpected potholes, dodgy surfaces and all.

[SixPackBack]

And you're sweetness and light?

Steve's a great guy to have a beer with.

He comes across as someone with pathological stalking tendencies with no clear objective.
I blame his drug/alcohol intake.

[boomer]

And you're sweetness and light?

Steve's a great guy to have a beer with.

At a funeral, i bet hes great company! Reminding everyone how good it is to be alive.

The one time i met him he was that sour the hairs on my neck tingled

[mattian]

A lot of us don't come on here and wank on about it though.

so, you don't deny that you are one of those riders that sometimes pushes the boundaries?

[flyingcrocodile46]

A lot of us don't come on here and wank on about it though.

Perhaps he knows from experience just how enthusiastically you will throw yourself in harms way to prevent collateral damage from overspray.

Fuck dude! Get a grip of your own and keep yer envy under control. This is an open motorcycling forum where people can express their thoughts on a range of related subjects.

Self appointed censors aren't conducive to open dialogue or learning. If you disagree with a post that someone has obviously put a lot of thought and effort into, at least put a bit of effort into providing a basis in support of your otherwise unqualified arrogance and show a bit of respect for the opinions of others. Try and get your point across without being a wanker and slamming others for sharing their thoughts.

If I was as arrogant as you I'd tell you that I make my own decisions about the pro's and con's of other peoples posts, and that you should shut the fuck up.... Oh! I just did:whistle:

[Madmax]

If it is great at 95kph, then it is going to be better still at 105kph, etc
200+ TO 260 KMH is Fun

[Mekk]

I disagree! Strongly actually!

Everyone has a zone, the place that gives them ultimate pleasure and that really cool feeling on 2 wheels. Now your zone and mine may well be different, in fact I will go as far as to say they will be completely different.

Picture a learner, first bike and a brand new permit to go and learn how much fun motorcycling can be. Scarey shit some may say. Others blast out from the start and dont actually find their own zone without making a huge mistake, possibly one that means pain. Pain can come in many forms, wallet by way of fines, demerit points for breaches and other naughtyness, and even physical pain from injuries sustained.

So, back to the learner without the balls to the wall kick start here for a moment. They are not confident about hill starts. They are hard to achieve without a lot of practise for some. This learner has several hills to negotiate on their way to work or school or what have you. Each day they struggle, overthinking the hows and what should I's of making that hill start without stalling and holding up other traffic. One day it "clicks" for them. Instant hillstart, each and everytime. It happens without effort or thought, all of a sudden they are in the zone. They feel so fantastic! Such a cool feeling!

Dont ever be lulled into thinking the "zone" is anything to do with speed, or being a wanker on the road. The ZONE is all about being in a place on your ride that makes you feel at one with your bike, and the road you are travelling.

I think I need to clarify that the way I read the OP's post was that he thinks that everyone can find their "zone" at higher speeds if they are prepared and know what they're doing.

I'm saying that not everyone has a "zone" at higher speeds and that it is dangerous thinking to feel that once you're in "zone" that you will be OK. This is why I would not suggest applying his reasoning to one's own riding as you may be sorely disappointed.

[Mekk]

You're quite right but missing the point mate. It is better to be prepared in order to help minimise any possible negative problem. The zone is not a place of safety and you can be riding at 10kmh and be taken out or killed anyway. I don't think anyone on here is going to accept that if you speed and do certian things you are going to be okay.... to accept that on a motorbike means we have just moved from the realm of life to fantasyland.

Yes but your post is suggesting that everyone can ride at faster speeds if they are prepared.

Because of the differences between everyone's individual experience, reaction times and a thousand other factors... I think it's fair to say that there are people that should not and cannot regardless of how "prepared" they are.

[beyond]

To be prepared IF they do ride at faster speeds. Subtle difference but point taken.

[Madmax]

To be prepared IF they do ride at faster speeds. Subtle difference but point taken.
Were all going to Die that some stage

[Mekk]

To be prepared IF they do ride at faster speeds. Subtle difference but point taken.

"I don't care who you are or how long you have been riding or how much you tell people you do not speed.... if you are a motorcyclist you are going to push the boundaries at some time and at some place.

That is a cold hard fact!"

[bogan]

"I don't care who you are or how long you have been riding or how much you tell people you do not speed.... if you are a motorcyclist you are going to push the boundaries at some time and at some place.

That is a cold hard fact!"

pushing the boundaries does not have to mean speed ya know, it cud mean going out on wet roads, or gravel roads, or cornering harder etc....

also telling us what we are going to do, is not the same as what we should do, subtle differences, but thats how i read it

[Brian d marge]

Go Rednecks Go....:jerry:

[flyingcrocodile46]

"I don't care who you are or how long you have been riding or how much you tell people you do not speed.... if you are a motorcyclist you are going to push the boundaries at some time and at some place.

That is a cold hard fact!"

"the boundaries" are relative to the skills and experience of the individual motorcyclist reading the post. For anybody to develop their riding skills they ultimately must expand/push their boundaries.

There isn't anything wrong with the statement... What is wrong, is the narrow minded interpretation of busybodies who assume, their whiney arsed opinions matter more than everybody else and who would insist on imposing their own standards to censure others.:yes:

[rosie631]

"the boundaries" are relative to the skills and experience of the individual motorcyclist reading the post. For anybody to develop their riding skills they ultimately must expand/push their boundaries.

There isn't anything wrong with the statement... What is wrong, is the narrow minded interpretation of busybodies who assume, their whiney arsed opinions matter more than everybody else and who would insist on imposing their own standards to censure others.:yes:

+1

10 char

[MSTRS]

Self appointed censors aren't conducive to open dialogue or learning. If you disagree with a post that someone has obviously put a lot of thought and effort into, at least put a bit of effort into providing a basis in support of your otherwise unqualified arrogance and show a bit of respect for the opinions of others. Try and get your point across without being a wanker and slamming others for sharing their thoughts.

Will never happen. This is KM, he of one-note-song fame.
"Some men...you just...can't...reach"



There isn't anything wrong with the statement... What is wrong, is the narrow minded interpretation of busybodies who assume, their whiney arsed opinions matter more than everybody else and who would insist on imposing their own standards to censure others.
The other problem with such described people is that they constantly put their own interpretation on what others mean, and use this as a platform to spout their own form of gospel ad nauseum, refuse to allow that they may have got it wrong, cherry-pick what they respond to and ignore all else, offer nothing in terms of constructive advice, and eventually resort to personal attack to the point where they and their chosen targets end up being infracted.

"the boundaries" are relative to the skills and experience of the individual motorcyclist reading the post. For anybody to develop their riding skills they ultimately must expand/push their boundaries.
Exactly. And that relates to everything we do, from the moment we are born.

[cowpatz]

Post deleted by poster

[madbikeboy]

He comes across as someone with pathological stalking tendencies with no clear objective.
I blame his drug/alcohol intake.


SPB - are you talking about Boomer or KatMan? :jerry:

[MSTRS]

You might be having an awesome ride all on your own and everything comes together beautifully... like being right in "the zone" (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=102234)
and you start going faster and quicker than before.




I think I need to clarify that the way I read the OP's post was that he thinks that everyone can find their "zone" at higher speeds if they are prepared and know what they're doing.

I'm saying that not everyone has a "zone" at higher speeds and that it is dangerous thinking to feel that once you're in "zone" that you will be OK. This is why I would not suggest applying his reasoning to one's own riding as you may be sorely disappointed.

How do you get that? Beyond never said 'the zone' is to be found at higher speeds. Quite the contrary...he said that when 'in the zone' it is entirely possible that a rider's speed may find itself creeping up. 'The zone' happened first.
Funny thing, this 'zone'. It is different for all of us, the only commonality being that it is a state of mind. A nebulous place that exists in the moment, where all comes together for the rider/bike/road. A zen state, if you will. Yet not autopilot. For some of us, gradually increasing speed can be a symptom of being in the 'zone'. And Beyond's point was that we must be prepared for what happens at higher speeds, otherwise rider/bike/road come together in an entirely different way...

[MarkH]

How do you get that? Beyond never said 'the zone' is to be found at higher speeds. Quite the contrary...he said that when 'in the zone' it is entirely possible that a rider's speed may find itself creeping up. 'The zone' happened first.
Funny thing, this 'zone'. It is different for all of us, the only commonality being that it is a state of mind. A nebulous place that exists in the moment, where all comes together for the rider/bike/road. A zen state, if you will. Yet not autopilot. For some of us, gradually increasing speed can be a symptom of being in the 'zone'. And Beyond's point was that we must be prepared for what happens at higher speeds, other rider/bike/road come together in an entirely different way...

Nicely put. Unfortunately I didn't read your post until after I had read the original post and jumped to silly conclusions leading me to rush out and immediately push myself beyond my limits and ride so fast that I broke the sound barrier - but it's OK, I have some superglue and the sound barrier will be as good as new in no time.

[MSTRS]

Nicely put. Unfortunately I didn't read your post until after I had read the original post and jumped to silly conclusions leading me to rush out and immediately push myself beyond my limits and ride so fast that I broke the sound barrier - but it's OK, I have some superglue and the sound barrier will be as good as new in no time.

Well silly old you, eh? That'll teach you for failing to comprehend.
You'll probably be needing some sandpaper and touchup paint as well....

[imdying]

Look Steve, come on, how can you not see the merits of this Thread?Well that's easy, you should be able to see it... this thread is "You should all try drink driving, just a little bit, a small controllable manageable step at a time, that way when you're put in that position, say getting caught up in the moment during a group ride with the boys, you'll be ready for it."

The whole thread is fucked from the very first paragraph. It makes assumptions about people that are frankly ridiculous.

[short-circuit]

Well that's easy, you should be able to see it... this thread is "You should all try drink driving, just a little bit, a small controllable manageable step at a time, that way when you're put in that position, say getting caught up in the moment during a group ride with the boys, you'll be ready for it."

The whole thread is fucked from the very first paragraph. It makes assumptions about people that are frankly ridiculous.

Not often I agree with you, but I too see the logic as pretty flawed

[MSTRS]

The only assumption the OP makes is that motorcyclists are likely to give it a bit from time to time. His (and my) experience is that this is a fact, not an assumption. The rest is a warning. I don't see him as encouraging anyone to go fast/er, although there is definitely some advice on what to expect if you do.

[mister.koz]

Jesus.. i thought he had a good few bloody points.

Of course katman believes 50% of people on bikes are complete lunatics and the rest of the biker population are total sheep and can't think for themselves or apply reason, logic and caution to advice given. So his assumption is usually based on the poster being one of the 4 horsemen.

Out of about 100 - 150 people i have met and ridden with there are about 10 that i would never ride with again, one is dangerously slow, 2 are dangerously fast and the rest are idiots, all ignorant, all fools.

Speed vs danger is relative, a learner at 100km/h is terrifying. Attitude is more important.

Anyways, thanks for the pointers dude, i will keep them in mind :) shame this thread descended into chaos :doh:

[snuffles]

Let the naysayers butt out here and now.......
I don't care who you are or how long you have been riding or how much you tell people you do not speed.... if you are a motorcyclist you are going to push the boundaries at some time and at some place.

That is a cold hard fact!

This is a warning so you know what to expect when you do up the pace. You may be riding along nice and carefully and someone shoots past and you feel like a play and twist the throttle and tuck in behind.

You might be on a group ride with a lot of experienced riders and all of a sudden you get caught along with a more rapidly paced ride.

You might be having an awesome ride all on your own and everything comes together beautifully... like being right in "the zone" (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=102234)
and you start going faster and quicker than before.

When you up the pace, your bike starts to behave differently and you need to be aware of what is taking place:

1. Centrifugal forces start to come into play at far greater levels the faster you go. This means you need to "muscle" the bike more and counter steer harder to drop it into corners. The faster you go the more likely you are to swing wide which means on a right hander you might end up doing some unwanted gardening, or on a left hander you become a bonnet badge on someones oncoming vehicle.
On some bikes, at speeds above a certain level, this extra muscling required can cause head shake which if you are not aware at what level this creeps in, you can lose control. It is important you do not tense up but steer the bike into the corner with a light grip on the bars so the bike can have it;s way.
The moment you tense up you will end up exacerbating any issues.

2. The faster you go the more time will be compressed which means things happen very quickly. You need to be fully alert and continually scanning the road ahead as far as you can see while keeping an eye on the road surface and things happening in close proximity In short... you better have bloody good reflexes which means no drugs, drink or lack of sleep induced weariness. If you aren't in the right frame of mind do not twist that throttle.

3. You need to be able to brake faster, harder and with more control and smoothness than ever before because when things go wrong they go wrong very quickly at speed. You really need to have rehearsed in your mind what you would do if any number of things were to happen. Have in mind an escape route, do not panic, do not let the adrenaline rush allow you to do anything stupid. Control the rush, keep an even state of mind, look where you want to go, aim for the gap, if you know you won't stop in time, then plan a safer exit point. Prempt another drivers directions and plan to move a different way if they change their minds.

4. Your bike needs to be top notch. Brakes and pads up to scratch, tyre pressures correct and suspension sorted for your weight and height.

5. This isn't a licence to speed but before you push the boundaries you need to know the boundaries of your own mental state and your bike before you decide to twist that throttle and give it a go. I don't care what anyone has to say but you are going to twist that throttle at some time and you better be ready for it. Practice on quiet roads in areas where you will not end up paying for John Keys lunch.

You will learn a hell of a lot about how your bike handles and reacts when pushed because I can assure you right now the harder you ride the more different your bike will handle and for some that aren't aware, it WILL scare the shit out of you.

Be warned and be prepared.

Thanks for your valuable input...I can now sleep at night

[flyingcrocodile46]

Well that's easy, you should be able to see it... this thread is "You should all try drink driving, just a little bit, a small controllable manageable step at a time, that way when you're put in that position, say getting caught up in the moment during a group ride with the boys, you'll be ready for it."

He doesn't advocate that anyone "should" put them selves in harms way, he is being a realist who recognises that the majority of people do take risks and he's warning that there are repercussions if they do so, and that there are ways to mitigate those repercussions.

Why can't you nanny's educate yourselves and try reading and understanding the actual words in the post instead of crediting your own narrow minded misconstrued and non factual interpretations as being those of the writer.


The whole thread is fucked from the very first paragraph. It makes assumptions about people that are frankly ridiculous.

You feel that way simply because you lack the simple comprehension required to read and correctly interpret basic English, which is what is truly ridiculous.


Not often I agree with you, but I too see the logic as pretty flawed

Nice to see you found something in common with him... but what a pity it had to be his 'lack of comprehension'.

[imdying]

You feel that way simply because you lack the simple comprehension required to read and correctly interpret basic English, which is what is truly ridiculous.

Nice to see you found something in common with him... but what a pity it had to be his 'lack of comprehension'.If you don't want to look like a twat, then you would be best not to do the things you accuse us of...

The what of people?

he is being a realist who recognises that the majority of people....



Let the naysayers butt out here and now.......
I don't care who you are or how long you have been riding or how much you tell people you do not speed.... if you are a motorcyclist you are going to push the boundaries at some time and at some place.

That is a cold hard fact!

...

I don't care what anyone has to say but you are going to twist that throttle at some time and you better be ready for it.That's not 'the majority'... that's tarring everyone with the same retard brush.

[flyingcrocodile46]

That's not 'the majority'... that's tarring everyone with the same retard brush.

Don't worry, I'm sure your retard brush is bigger than everyone elses.

btw, Negative feedback is the tool of cowards and cry babies. Thanks for clarifying your status

[imdying]

Ha, I thought so :finger:

[Genestho]

Well that's easy, you should be able to see it... this thread is "You should all try drink driving, just a little bit, a small controllable manageable step at a time, that way when you're put in that position, say getting caught up in the moment during a group ride with the boys, you'll be ready for it."

The whole thread is fucked from the very first paragraph. It makes assumptions about people that are frankly ridiculous.

DAMN YOU MAN, for bringing me back into the foray! :eek: (And you blokes say wimmin are bad eh?)
OUCH, and point taken! My bad!!:niceone:

I should've been clearer.

The merit I saw in the post was this "Be warned and be prepared"
This is a true statement, that IMO, cannot be wrong.
And I'm getting the heck outta this thread, before it combusts.

[MSTRS]

... shame this thread descended into chaos ...

That suggests that the thread was responsible for the descent...not the usual culprit/s wheeling out their well-used flamethrowers and dragging it down. Despite the heroic efforts of the (other) usual culprits to stop them.

[bogan]

And I'm getting the heck outta this thread, before it combusts.

yup, theres it goes
<img src="http://www.maniacworld.com/Tsar-Nuclear-Explosion.jpg"/>

[flyingcrocodile46]

Will never happen. This is KM, he of one-note-song fame.
"Some men...you just...can't...reach"

Funny... I thought they were known as fucktards



The other problem with such described people is that they constantly put their own interpretation on what others mean, and use this as a platform to spout their own form of gospel ad nauseum, refuse to allow that they may have got it wrong, cherry-pick what they respond to and ignore all else, offer nothing in terms of constructive advice, and eventually resort to personal attack to the point where they and their chosen targets end up being infracted.

:niceone: Spot on

[Mystic13]

Let the naysayers butt out here and now.......
I don't care who you are or how long you have been riding or how much you tell people you do not speed.... if you are a motorcyclist you are going to push the boundaries at some time and at some place.

That is a cold hard fact!

You will learn a hell of a lot about how your bike handles and reacts when pushed because I can assure you right now the harder you ride the more different your bike will handle and for some that aren't aware, it WILL scare the shit out of you.

Be warned and be prepared.

I notice there has been a lot of throwing toys out of the cot here.

My thoughts are;

- Katman - I see moderators as moderating, not inflamming with inappropriate language and name calling. I kind of think if you're going to wear the moderator hat then your posts as they stand in this thread are reflecting negatively on your credibility as a moderator IMHO.

- Beyond - I think the initial idea of the thread was a good one and it would have been useful to have got more input from others on what happens. I think you could have made two changes that would have achieved your aim stated further down the thread.

1/ You told the naysayers to butt out and then made some statement as fact. Basically if you tell people with a different opinion to bugger off they're generally going to butt in. Whether you intended it or not you set the tone and the basis for this thread as a "we said - they said" thread. And that is what has happened.

2/ At the end of the post you had a further opportunity to direct how the thread ran. You could have ended the thread asking for other input on what to watch out for with increased speed.

e.g. ""Be warned and be prepared." I know there is more to say. So for those of you who do ride at speed or on the ragged edge what other things do us riders need to be aware of?"

It's a bit tough to complain about the tone of the thread and what you wanted to happen when that's not what your post asked for or encouraged.

Those are just my thoughts on how come there are few toys in the cot and we have a floor covered in toys.



Yep, someone waved the red sheet in front of the bulls and they charged. :eek:
It's been like watching a brawl break out on a rugby field. Sadly one of the first to run in was one of the refs.:nono:

[mister.koz]

That suggests that the thread was responsible for the descent...not the usual culprit/s wheeling out their well-used flamethrowers and dragging it down. Despite the heroic efforts of the (other) usual culprits to stop them.

Good point... it does get a little boring, those all-too-regular battles...

[flyingcrocodile46]

- Katman - I see moderators as moderating, not inflamming with inappropriate language and name calling. I kind of think if you're going to wear the moderator hat then your posts as they stand in this thread are reflecting negatively on your credibility as a moderator IMHO.

:gob: You can't be serious...:no: surely he isn't a moderator :weird: That is something that seriously needs to change.:yes:

Btw. Nice post

[Genestho]

Yep, someone waved the red sheet in front of the bulls and they charged. :eek:
It's been like watching a brawl break out on a rugby field. Sadly one of the first to run in was one of the refs.:nono:


At the time the OP posted the thread, instantly the reply posts were so fast, and descending so rapidly, that I'm not so sure constructive conversation was ever going to happen here. It was over before it began, but, this could've been addressed. You're right.

[MSTRS]

Katman is NOT a moderator.
The green ME after certain names denotes that person is a mentor, with a certain level of experience/ability, and available to help others in (parts of) their riding.
Moderators, however, have their name in bold and/or orange.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Katman is NOT a moderator.
The green ME after certain names denotes that person is a mentor, with a certain level of experience/ability, and available to help others in (parts of) their riding.
Moderators, however, have their name in bold and/or orange.

Oh! That's good. I'd hate to think moronicity was seen by KB as a good benchmark

[The Stranger]

My thoughts are;

- Katman - I see moderators as moderating, not inflamming with inappropriate language and name calling. I kind of think if you're going to wear the moderator hat then your posts as they stand in this thread are reflecting negatively on your credibility as a moderator IMHO.


1/ You told the naysayers to butt out and then made some statement as fact. Basically if you tell people with a different opinion to bugger off they're generally going to butt in.


Hmm, I think your mistake is to think Beyond made a mistake. I am absolutely certain Beyond knew pretty well exactly what would happen and I'm sure he enjoyed as much as the rest of us - but I could be mistaken.


:gob: You can't be serious...:no: surely he isn't a moderator :weird: That is something that seriously needs to change.:yes:


Katman isn't a moderator.

[Katman]

Katman isn't a moderator.

Ohhh but if I was, I'd soooo infract his arse.

:msn-wink:

[Danae]

+1 Mystic

Can we have some input from the more experienced riders what happens at higher speeds and/or when they themselves push their own (already high) limits? And what others experienced as learners pushing the limits?

[short-circuit]

Oh! That's good. I'd hate to think moronicicty was seen by KB as a good benchmark

Is it moronic to spell moronicity: "moronicicty"?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Is it moronic to spell moronicity: "moronicicty"?


:laugh: Yup.. I don't see the city limits sign in my regular travels so will defer to your qualified judgment :laugh:

[short-circuit]

:laugh: Yup.. I don't see the city limits sign in my regular travels so will defer to your qualified judgment :laugh:

Well I wasn't born there I just live in the fucken place!

[mister.koz]

+1 Mystic

Can we have some input from the more experienced riders what happens at higher speeds and/or when they themselves push their own (already high) limits? And what others experienced as learners pushing the limits?

I am not overly experienced but i do know what its like to push a little far and get a real fright.

After reading allot of literature from race bike riders and listening to allot of people's suggestions I have minimised the surprises... I think that knowing what may happen is better than not because if you do get into a situation that you have heard about or had advice on you are in a better position to keep your cool and work through it rather than freeze up.

I would never condone riding beyond your ability, in fact i think its the quickest way to pain but even a poor judgment of a corner can have your safety buffer disappear.

Riding through the French pass springs to mind, i approached a set of 35km corners at speed and safely navigated them, the 3rd corner had a small rise that was hiding a 4th corner that should have had flashing lights on it.

The advice i was given saved my bike and bacon, a good friend of mind in-toe, we both did the same thing and ended up laughing about it at the next stop because we knew that we had over-cooked it and were lucky to have had a good way through. Consequently we did exactly the same thing...

ps, we weren't racing each other or i would have been riding by myself a good 10km behind him.

[Mystic13]

Wow, you learn something everyday. Okay. MENTOR!. I'm thinking the comments are still valid just change "Moderator" to "Mentor".


+1 Mystic

Can we have some input from the more experienced riders what happens at higher speeds and/or when they themselves push their own (already high) limits? And what others experienced as learners pushing the limits?

Cool Avatar. So that's your FXR150.

[Katman]

Wow, you learn something everyday. Okay. MENTOR!. I'm thinking the comments are still valid just change "Moderator" to "Mentor".


Fuck off - that's my style of Mentoring. Telling idiots to pull their fucking heads in.:eek:

[Winston001]

All this talk about "the Zone" etc doesn't really help if the objective of our discussion is safety. My zone is about 140k but ranges from 130 - 165k depending on the road and the conditions.

Despite my personal view that this is safe and "feels" right, the constabulary have a different perspective. :Police: And if I'm honest with myself, there is no way I can guarantee come to a screeching controlled halt in an emergency. I think I can but every time...........??

[flyingcrocodile46]

Well I wasn't born there I just live in the fucken place!

:laugh: +1 (I think it's my first) for showing peeps how to post on a forum without being ignorant or emo

[Varkp]

There are fast bikers and there are old bikers. Mutually exclusive. nuff said

[MSTRS]

Fuck off - that's my style of Mentoring. Telling idiots to pull their fucking heads in.:eek:

Style? Fuck off. Bulls in china shops have more style. Evening classes in Advanced Neanderthal could help you improve your style quite a bit. Who knows...maybe you'll even graduate? Anything is possible...
:bleh:

[nsrpaul]

my god

finally i start to read something on here that has possibly some real value, and an actual sensible approach (even if i wasn't gunna listen myself)

and find several pages of people slapping each other with handbags

come on gys, either get over the problem, over yourselves, or maybe even get a room

just sort it, it reeks of tension, especially you katman:jerry::jerry:

[flyingcrocodile46]

It's called a dog pile... glad you decided to join in, it was starting to look like it was all over :niceone:

[nsrpaul]

dog pile`aye:stupid:

[scracha]

Ok, we can't all afford trackdays and we sometimes speed, but remember kids, pushing your limits on blind cornered, traffic filled roads with no run off and a strong possibility of diesel, cowshit and gravel is not really gonna improve your "skills".

It's just playing roulette.

[Pussy]

Ok, we can't all afford trackdays and we sometimes speed, but remember kids, pushing your limits on blind cornered, traffic filled roads with no run off and a strong possibility of diesel, cowshit and gravel is not really gonna improve your "skills".

It's just playing roulette.

:niceone:
That sums it up nicely, Stevie!

[Maki]

My take on this is that instead of trying to up the pace, then try and up the smoothness, skill, experience and knowledge. When these increase the pace will go up automatically and safely. If you are pushing the pace to a level you are not comfortable with, then you are pushing too hard. It may have fatal consequences if done outside a controlled environment. Are you ready for a corner that tightens and has a little gravel?
Actually pushing the limits should probably only happen on a racetrack. You don't want to find your limit on the road.

[Jiminy]

I feel it somewhat disturbing to read such threads, not less for the amount of meaningless slapping going on for 15 pages (bar less than a handful useful comments).

When I'm pushing my bike too much, the last thing that springs to my mind is some random comments from an unknown biker on KB (not known by me, that is). And if it ever does, it will undoubtedly be too late (or it will mean that I'm about to do something stupid).

If I really wanted to read useful things about riding at pace, I'd pick a recognised and reliable source and learn about the physics of biking without mention of "pushing the boundaries", as it is the handling and not the boundary that matters. And then I'd practice it, little at a time, to hone my skills as safely as can be on a bike.

But then I ride a cruiser, so what do I know about biking anway?

[edit] I came into this thread thinking it was about "The Pace". Not quite, heh?!

[rosie631]

Ohhh but if I was, I'd soooo infract his arse.

:msn-wink:

Just red rep him like you do everyone else who disagrees with you.

[kit]

What acc should subsidise is rider training days, trackdays are great.... but a rider training day is better... learning the most effective ways of stopping, suspension, blah blah blah, are going to give you greater skills to call upon if you find yourself in a precarious situation by pushing your boundaries (as we all do)

[TomJ]

my god

finally i start to read something on here that has possibly some real value, and an actual sensible approach (even if i wasn't gunna listen myself)

and find several pages of people slapping each other with handbags

come on gys, either get over the problem, over yourselves, or maybe even get a room

just sort it, it reeks of tension, especially you katman:jerry::jerry:

seems we can't discuss anything with out the 10 pages of crap between decent posts.

for what it's worth I do enjoy others take on improving skills, stretching themselves etc. all while keeping themselves in one piece

[Owl]

Just red rep him like you do everyone else who disagrees with you.

Not too sure he can?:laugh:


Oh, how I miss being able to hand out some well deserved green.

[MSTRS]

Ok, we can't all afford trackdays and we sometimes speed, but remember kids, pushing your limits on blind cornered, traffic filled roads with no run off and a strong possibility of diesel, cowshit and gravel is not really gonna improve your "skills".

Of course it will. Learning to deal with all the booby traps is a skill in itself. Develop it, or die.



Actually pushing the limits should probably only happen on a racetrack. You don't want to find your limit on the road.

Define 'limits'.

Realistically, on the road is where most of us ride. Therefore, on the road is where will find our personal limit. Me, for instance, I try to be smooth and consistent at the speed limit for that road*. Boring, some would say. For others still, that sort of pace would be way scary. It's all relative to each rider's personal limit/comfort level. Oh, and what sort of road too.


* I'm talking any 100kph road. The numbered highways are boring and there's nothing clever about speeding on them. However, on a minor, sealed but twisty, country road and suddenly 100kph without varying can become quite exciting. Of course, sometimes...Beyond did mention that...

[Katman]

* I'm talking any 100kph road. The numbered highways are boring and there's nothing clever about speeding on them. However, on a minor, sealed but twisty, country road and suddenly 100kph without varying can become quite exciting. Of course, sometimes...Beyond did mention that...

Should car drivers be encouraged to test their limits on twisty country public roads?

[mister.koz]

Should car drivers be encouraged to test their limits on twisty country public roads?

Who's encouraging that here? Shit slinging aside the OP has put it across as if you not you should.

Your runaway assumption is now creating intention that doesn't exist.

You can argue that the very mention of high-speed or high-speed maneuvering techniques is promotion enough but still its obvious that no one is intentionally encouraging speed here.

[Katman]

Who's encouraging that here?


Beyond makes no secret of the fact that he encourages motorcyclists to test their limits. I'm asking whether car drivers should be encouraged to do the same on twisty country public roads.

Or is it only motorcyclists that are special enough to be allowed that right?

[mister.koz]

Beyond makes no secret of the fact that he encourages motorcyclists to test their limits. I'm asking whether car drivers should be encouraged to do the same on twisty country public roads.

Or is it only motorcyclists that are special enough to be allowed that right?

I don't think anyone should be encouraged to do anything beyond the law, that being said i don't think people should be discouraged from having a good time. Its awfully subjective, and thus a very hard discussion.

For example i pushed the limits on my GN250 doing 65 in an 80 zone, had only been riding for 5 days at the time and it was horrendously dangerous. However a few months ago i blazed through a set of corners on the coro-loop at a speed that felt safe with full visibility of the corners ahead, endangering no-one (apart from myself) and still miles within my limits.

The fact remains that people will push the limits and some are idiots, cars or motorbikes.

I don't see this thread as a promotion of stupidity, rather mentioning some things you might encounter if/when you do go a little too far. I've had headshake at quite reasonable speeds, created completely by my own inexperience.

[scracha]

Of course it will. Learning to deal with all the booby traps is a skill in itself. Develop it, or die.

What...by riding like a cock on dangerous roads? At least advise people to only push it a little on roads with escape routes, corners you can see through and decent soft grassy run-offs. On a motorcycle, when you're "improving your skillz" by going that extra 5kmph around that corner you always feel like you can go faster through, when it all turns to $hit then you don't get a second chance. If you're luckly you'll have a bashed up bike and a bashed up body. Sadly, there's there's a likelyhood that you won't get a second chance as you'll end up paralysed or dead. That's the point you guys seem to miss.


Ride in on the road for a long enough period of time and you'll develop the "booby trap" handling skills you mention (and better still, you'll develop booby trap anticipation skills) without riding like an arsehole as there are enough idiots pulling out of driveways, cow shit, diesel etc to keep anybody on two wheels busy.




Define 'limits'.

'limits' : - on a motorcycle it's where you go beyond your abilities and fall off.

Anyone regularly pushing more than about 70% of their "limit" on the road is gonna make a mistake or hit a "booby trap" and suffer serious injury. Just ask the guy who started this thread.


For a supposed mentor, I find some of the advice you give frankly.....bollox. No offence like

[Katman]

I don't see this thread as a promotion of stupidity, rather mentioning some things you might encounter if/when you do go a little too far. I've had headshake at quite reasonable speeds, created completely by my own inexperience.

I don't see this thread as anything other than Beyond laying down a 'Get out of Jail Free' card.

On one hand he is happy to encourage motorcyclists to push their boundries (on public roads) but on the other hand if things turn to shit he has this thread to fall back on and say "Well, I did try to warn you".

[mister.koz]

I don't see this thread as anything other than Beyond laying down a 'Get out of Jail Free' card.

On one hand he is happy to encourage motorcyclists to push their boundries (on public roads) but on the other hand if things turn to shit he has this thread to fall back on and say "Well, I did try to warn you".

:confused: there's obviously allot more going on here than whats mentioned in the tread.

Ah well, have fun! i am quite happy to take the simple suggestions on board, though its not overly likely i will need to use them because i am almost never beyond 70%.

cheerz

[MSTRS]

Should car drivers be encouraged to test their limits on twisty country public roads?

Just what has that to do with me doing the ALLOWED speed limit on a public road. I failed to add that I do it ON MY SIDE, as well. I'm well aware that an opposing vehicle may cross the centreline. Where is that NOT a possiblility? I practice the art of late apexing to mitigate potential surprises, and I'm not so stupid as to think that I needn't slow down if a corner looks too tight for me at the speed I've chosen to ride at.
I believe Beyond mentioned something about what to expect when one pushes past what is comfortable/safe? We've all done it at some stage, usually when we were new/ish to riding. Some of us even survived. And few of us 'oldies' had the benefit of the collective wisdom on this website to help us survive. Posters' attempts to impart (painfully learned?) wisdom should be encouraged.

[Danae]

Should car drivers be encouraged to test their limits on twisty country public roads?

Car drivers on country roads don't drive because they enjoy it, they drive because they have to (they are going from a to b) and it is easy.

Motorcyclists on the other hand enjoy the skill and the challenge involved with riding. In order to hone this skill you do what you do with any other skill: practise. As you continue riding, your "limit" increases and you continue to ride smoother and faster, even when you are consistently riding 60-70%.

Beyond here is letting us know what happens when you decide to ride at say 75-80%. My 80% is probably not even very fast, but it is all to do with technical ability and experience. If I decided to push 80% one day to give myself a challenge, I probably wouldn't experience any of the speed related issues beyond has mentioned, but I would feel the adrenaline as much as any of you pushing 80% would feel.

In the end it is all up to personal choice. Do any of you want to ride at 80%? It is not your limit, but it leaves a smaller space for error. I don't think anyone is foolish enough to ride at 100% on public roads.

[scracha]

Car drivers on country roads don't drive because they enjoy it, they drive because they have to (they are going from a to b) and it is easy.

I go for the odd pleasure drive. Why is driving a car easier? I find the bike easier as that's what I started on.



Motorcyclists on the other hand enjoy the skill and the challenge involved with riding. In order to hone this skill you do what you do with any other skill:

Some bikers regularly commute. Some are not that interested in challeging themselves, they just want to get from A to B in an enjoyable fashion.



Beyond here is letting us know what happens when you decide to ride at say 75-80%. My 80% is probably not even very fast, but it is all to do with

I don't think anyone who goes out on public roads and regularly lands on their arse should be giving advice.



I don't think anyone is foolish enough to ride at 100% on public roads.
Go around the Coro loop any sunny weekend and you'll see plenty riders riding at around 100% and quite a few bashed up bikes as evidence they've went above 100%

[mowgli]

As your experience increases you should become increasingly limited by public roads - ie. needing to adjust your speed and line more regularly for hazards. If this is not that case then either you ride like a nana (not altogether bad) or you are riding oblivious to those hazards.

[Danae]

I don't think anyone who goes out on public roads and regularly lands on their arse should be giving advice.

where did you pull that one out from?

[scracha]

where did you pull that one out from?
did I say you? I'm talking about the thread starter

[flyingcrocodile46]

few of us 'oldies' had the benefit of the collective wisdom on this website to help us survive. Posters' attempts to impart (painfully learned?) wisdom should be encouraged.

:first:

That is what it's all about. Pushing boundaries is part of the process we all learn by (that is a indisputable fact). I think it's great that there is a bit of info made available about the process and consequences so that we can better understand and manage it.

Hitler was a great book burner and so were the Chinese... obviously some peeps here want to live in the dimly lit past. They should get rid of their computers as there is far too much uncontrolled content on the interwobble for them to be comfortable and then the rest of us wouldn't have to put up with their tall poppy fixations.

Alternatively they could get off their arses and write a version that they feel is appropriate and offer it as a constructive alternative instead of engaging in nonconstructive knocking of other peoples attempts to help others. That's what a good mentor would do. Lets see what you're made of Katman.. are you up to it or are you only wanting to appear to be a know all do nothing nay sayer?
Other Mentors appear to be up to the task.. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=107628 Props to 'The Stranger'

[dipshit]

Car drivers on country roads don't drive because they enjoy it, they drive because they have to (they are going from a to b) and it is easy.

Motorcyclists on the other hand enjoy the skill and the challenge...


This is just another "us motorcyclists are special" claptrap.

[Danae]

did I say you? I said the thread starter

oh sorry, my mind just saw the quote boxes and i was genuinely confused :slap:

[Katman]

Alternatively they could get off their arses and write a version that they feel is appropriate and offer it as a constructive alternative instead of engaging in nonconstructive knocking of other peoples attempts to help others. That's what a good mentor would do. Lets see what you're made of Katman.. are you up to it or are you only wanting to appear to be a know all do nothing nay sayer?
Other Mentors appear to be up to the task.. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...d.php?t=107628 Props to 'The Stranger'

You're fuckin hilarious.

:clap:

[flyingcrocodile46]

You're fuckin hilarious.

:clap:

Said the impotent yappy little ankle biter :niceone:

[edit] Heh!.. thanks for your "Hey dickhead" pms fella... Try not to get yourself so worked up.. it's unbecoming <a href="http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg305/flyingcrocodile46/?action=view&current=Pwnedgimprage.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg305/flyingcrocodile46/Pwnedgimprage.gif" border="0" alt="Crusty Katman"></a>

[MSTRS]

Alternatively they could get off their arses and write a version that they feel is appropriate...
Man, is that ever unfair. They do try, you know...

You're fuckin hilarious.
See?

[Katman]

[edit] Heh!.. thanks for your "Hey dickhead" pms fella...

No worries.

I'll look forward to your "regular rain".

:tugger:

[flyingcrocodile46]

Man, is that ever unfair. They do try, you know...

See?

Heh! A truly nobble effort.

I have no issue with the Mentors. I'm sure that most of you are nice open minded and constructive people.

[flyingcrocodile46]

No worries.

I'll look forward to your "regular rain". :tugger:


Yeah! well be sure not to chug so much that you choke

[edit] looks at time 3:34.. Damn!.. Musta gagged at the foreplay [end edit]

[yungatart]

:first:




Alternatively they could get off their arses and write a version that they feel is appropriate and offer it as a constructive alternative instead of engaging in nonconstructive knocking of other peoples attempts to help others. That's what a good mentor would do. Lets see what you're made of Katman.. are you up to it or are you only wanting to appear to be a know all do nothing nay sayer?
Other Mentors appear to be up to the task.. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=107628 Props to 'The Stranger'

jees...most of us would be happy if Katman would just answer some of the endless questions we have asked him. He should be a politician...always manges to answer a question with a question....
An answer occasionally would be nice, Katman...