Video cameras not allowed at Hampton Downs

[erik]

Hampton Downs Ride Days say that because a video camera can be used as a timing device and their (and many other) insurance companies won't cover timed events, that they are not allowing video cameras on the bikes or riders. I haven't asked if they also ban people from using video cameras at the side of the track, but following their logic they ought to be banned as well, since they could almost as easily be used to time laps.

If there were other track day companies running track days at Hampton Downs that allowed video cameras, this would be enough reason for me to not go to Hampton Downs Ride Days track days. But since they have exclusive commercial rights, options are limited.

HRC are running track days there and I believe they allow video cameras (they did last time I went to one of their days). And Frosty has mentioned a possible track day club. Kiwitrackdays sent out an email this evening saying that they are hoping to run some sort of track day that is significantly different to those offered by Hampton Downs Ride days, possibly a twilight track day from 4:30-7:00pm (they're looking for feedback if anyone wants to give them ideas...).

I know a camera isn't essential and that most of the footage isn't that interesting, but it's nice to have a record of your track day so you can review the good bits or try to figure out what went wrong when you fall off.

[p.dath]

Are they also banning watches and cell phones? They all have the time on them.

[Hitcher]

Ridiculous. Some bikes have built-in lap timers. Even my Shiver does.

[mossy1200]

My hero pro doesnt show the screen at the back.Unless I was to lean over to look at it front on.You would think some You tube footage would be free advertising.

[R6_kid]

That's bollocks. Surely its only relaitive to the person filming?

[Leyton]

Thats a shame. Ahh well, atleast they are keeping the insurance happy, and ACC!

[Mort]

That really does suck. I video my rides simply to relive the ride and improve my riding. I'm not particularly interested in the lap time. Its a ridiculous rule.

[Ooky]

hope they don't ban bikes with lap timers also :mellow:

[FROSTY]

hey guys has anyone actually SPOKEN to the people that OWN Hampton downs? Not the guys talking up that they have exclusive rights etc.

[erik]

hey guys has anyone actually SPOKEN to the people that OWN Hampton downs? Not the guys talking up that they have exclusive rights etc.
Not me, but I have no reason to doubt they have exclusive commercial rights, Devil's confirmed it and kiwitrackdays have also.
The camera rule is a Hampton Downs Ride Days (and California Superbike School) rule, not a rule of the track, afaik.

As a side note, I went to the last track tour yesterday. It's looking good. :D

[R6_kid]

What's the bet they'll do the recording and then sell it to you

[paddy]

Don't know about you - but my speedometer is somewhat dependent on time:

KM/H => distance divided by time

[R6_kid]

What's your point? My speedometer tells me how fast I am going at the particular time I look down at it, it doesn't however have a timer that I might be able to use to determine my lap times.

I'd say that 9/10 people take video on board simply to record the experience or for more experienced people to review it and give them tips on how to be smoother/faster. 1/10 people do it to wank on about their lap time (like it matters when you're not actually racing).

The problem is that insurance companies that allow track day coverage usually require that:

the track day is run professionally with flag marshalls etc
scrutineering of bikes is carried out before they are allowed on the track
your lap times are not being recorded


The first two points are safety related, and the last point is to try and get across the point that they don't actually want you out there trying your hardest to improve your lap times and therefore increasing your risk of crashing.

[Hidalgo]

You posted this at goodtime, I was about to get Gopro wideangle (170 Degree). Now i Will wait untill more info on this.

[paddy]

What's your point? My speedometer tells me how fast I am going at the particular time I look down at it, it doesn't however have a timer that I might be able to use to determine my lap times.

My point was that speed is a measure of both time and distance and therefore a speedometer implicitly measures time even though it doesn't "display" it as such.

Just ignore me - I was trying to be pedantic and it didn't go so well.

[Devil]

Guys, i've had a conversation with them and it's completely safety and insurance related.
While i'm not going to get into the specific points here, it relates to us being able to continue to enjoy exercising our bikes in a safe, controlled environment and also have our insurance companies cover our arse!

Didn't spot you there on Sunday Erik! It's looking good. Just wish they'd hurry up with the seal!

[discotex]

While i'm not going to get into the specific points here, it relates to us being able to continue to enjoy exercising our bikes in a safe, controlled environment and also have our insurance companies cover our arse!

I'm all for that BUT my insurance company is happy with the way MotoTT run their days...

Does this also mean ipod nano and cellphones etc will be banned from the site as well? If not it seems a little harsh to ban us from recording our laps. It's not like you can see your laptime live or anything (the real danger).

What will they do about production bikes that have lap timers in the dash?

Of all the people I've seen with cameras at trackdays none of them have been using them to time their laps. In fact most of them have been in the slower groups. In my experience the people who want to show off lap times have used stopwatches covertly at trackside.

Sadly this seems like same old kneejerk policy creation we'd expect from Land Transport, ACC or G.W. Bush - i.e. it looks good to the public but really doesn't address the problem (which may just be perceived and not real anyway).


I wouldn't mind so much for the CSS days but the rest... Major bummer :wacko:

[Chrislost]

Guys, i've had a conversation with them and it's completely safety and insurance related.
While i'm not going to get into the specific points here, it relates to us being able to continue to enjoy exercising our bikes in a safe, controlled environment and also have our insurance companies cover our arse!

Didn't spot you there on Sunday Erik! It's looking good. Just wish they'd hurry up with the seal!

I think cameras are so dangerous.
they must add a hundred grams over the front wheel thus upsetting the finely tuned suspension that all us trackdayers have.
Ban THEM!!
They also create red mist, which can leak out onto ones visor causing problems with visibility.

[Devil]

Video from the side of the track is fine.
Bikes with lap timers are fine (that'd be impossible to do anything about).

There are plenty of people who chase their mates around with a camera, it's this behaviour that is discouraged. What if one of them runs into someone else minding their own business? What about the insurance implications if the 'victim' is covered and there is video record of someone taking them out?

While your company is "fine" with MotoTT days, that company (most likely) also covers numerous other riders at these days. There have been plenty of mutterings of these companies pulling out of providing track insurance full stop. That would totally suck donkey balls and I think we need to do what we can to prevent that from happening.

Part of this is removing any temptation for joe-bloggs-dumbarse to perform for the camera.

Sure it might be fun to have the record, but I dont see it as being particularly neccesary. You dont see Stroud, or Bugden, or Shirrifs riding round with cameras to check their lines...

Anyway, this rule is not going to change any time soon so best get used to it.

[Devil]

They also create red mist, which can leak out onto ones visor causing problems with visibility.

Much closer to the truth...

[Oscar]

Hampton Downs Ride Days say that because a video camera can be used as a timing device and their (and many other) insurance companies won't cover timed events, that they are not allowing video cameras on the bikes or riders. I haven't asked if they also ban people from using video cameras at the side of the track, but following their logic they ought to be banned as well, since they could almost as easily be used to time laps.

If there were other track day companies running track days at Hampton Downs that allowed video cameras, this would be enough reason for me to not go to Hampton Downs Ride Days track days. But since they have exclusive commercial rights, options are limited.

HRC are running track days there and I believe they allow video cameras (they did last time I went to one of their days). And Frosty has mentioned a possible track day club. Kiwitrackdays sent out an email this evening saying that they are hoping to run some sort of track day that is significantly different to those offered by Hampton Downs Ride days, possibly a twilight track day from 4:30-7:00pm (they're looking for feedback if anyone wants to give them ideas...).

I know a camera isn't essential and that most of the footage isn't that interesting, but it's nice to have a record of your track day so you can review the good bits or try to figure out what went wrong when you fall off.


Insurance Companies are responsible for a lot of things (and I should know, I werk for one), but that call is a load of bollox.

[Sidewinder]

I think cameras are so dangerous.
they must add a hundred grams over the front wheel thus upsetting the finely tuned suspension that all us trackdayers have.
Ban THEM!!
They also create red mist, which can leak out onto ones visor causing problems with visibility.

blah hahaha wtf is this for real

[caseye]

LOL not like you to be so unclear there paddy.
Bummer about the silly rule ,butt.

[surfchick]

The no-video camera rule (as a timing device) is common on the european racetracks already & totally rules out me making my artwork (bike video stuff anyway) at those tracks.. funny thing is how much footage is still being recorded onboard despite those insurance rules onto you-tube.

My perspecitve is that its a personal choice thing and needs to be done in such a way that its safely attached and then forgotton about.

We did a four-camera one at the in 08 motoTT day, but very low-key, and with sony's top of the line bullet cams for F1, RAF etc. you have to click on the video area to get the footage check it out:

http://www.alexmonteith.com/work_detail.php?id=34#

[discotex]

Video from the side of the track is fine.
Bikes with lap timers are fine (that'd be impossible to do anything about).

Can't do anything about it? They could ban bikes with built in lap timers if they're such "high risk". Or make them remove the timer button. Or many other equally intrusive things.

Let me get this straight... I can time my laps if my bike has a lap timer built in but I can't record laps with a camera even if I have no intention of timing them? :wacko:


There have been plenty of mutterings of these companies pulling out of providing track insurance full stop. That would totally suck donkey balls and I think we need to do what we can to prevent that from happening.

I'm happy for them to make changes that will work but window dressing based on no facts isn't helping them (as people will still crash) or us.

The much better solution is to raise the excess while on the track to like $2k. That's something that makes you think twice about crashing whether you have a camera on board or not.



Sure it might be fun to have the record, but I dont see it as being particularly neccesary. You dont see Stroud, or Bugden, or Shirrifs riding round with cameras to check their lines...

Some of us like to record what it's like to show friends and family how cool riding on a track is. Others like Alex make cool movies.

And as for the racers not having cameras... That's because they have lap timers to time what works and doesn't work - i.e. instant feedback.

Hell, even Rossi has a camera on board these days ;)



Anyway, this rule is not going to change any time soon so best get used to it.

It's their call but it is doesn't mean people will like it. The thing is if it's really a monopoly situation then the fact that people can't choose an alternative means they'll push back more.


Insurance Companies are responsible for a lot of things (and I should know, I werk for one), but that call is a load of bollox.

Spot on the money.

Insurance companies are usually the first to use statistics as a justification for how their set their policy up.

I'd love to see *any* form of evidence that cameras make people more likely to crash or backs up any of the reasons given in this thread. Some of which sound plausable but I've never seen happen in 8 track days.

Dicks will be dicks. You can't ban shit to stop that. It's the same logic that says we should have bikes banned (everyone "knows" we're walking corpses right?) and cars electronically limited to the speed limit because you never need to go faster.

[boomer]

Video from the side of the track is fine.
Bikes with lap timers are fine (that'd be impossible to do anything about).

There are plenty of people who chase their mates around with a camera, it's this behaviour that is discouraged. What if one of them runs into someone else minding their own business? What about the insurance implications if the 'victim' is covered and there is video record of someone taking them out?

While your company is "fine" with MotoTT days, that company (most likely) also covers numerous other riders at these days. There have been plenty of mutterings of these companies pulling out of providing track insurance full stop. That would totally suck donkey balls and I think we need to do what we can to prevent that from happening.

Part of this is removing any temptation for joe-bloggs-dumbarse to perform for the camera.

Sure it might be fun to have the record, but I dont see it as being particularly neccesary. You dont see Stroud, or Bugden, or Shirrifs riding round with cameras to check their lines...

Anyway, this rule is not going to change any time soon so best get used to it.

are you married to the owner of the gaff..??!


Serious question.

[Devil]

are you married to the owner of the gaff..??!


Serious question.

I know them personally.



I can stop passing on information if you guys would prefer...

[Mort]

I'd love to see *any* form of evidence that cameras make people more likely to crash or backs up any of the reasons given in this thread. Some of which sound plausable but I've never seen happen in 8 track days.


Spot on. It has no basis it reality.

How many crashes and injuries were caused by the appalling surface repairs at Taupo in the past years I wonder (which by the way has been repaired again and appears much better now). Didn't hear a peep from the insurance companies on that clear and known hazard to riders.

Having a camera on board is irrelevant to the safety of the event or the likelihood of it contributing to an accident. Likewise it is impossible to prevent timing from taking place when many bikes come equipped with on board lap timers. The rule is totally flawed on so many levels and to take it to its ultimate conclusion would be to exclude many track day riders from events....is that what Hampton Downs really wants ?

[Morcs]

Bullet cams which dont allow you to review footage until you plug into a pc should be allowed as there is no basis on which to ban them.

[Devil]

The rule is totally flawed on so many levels and to take it to its ultimate conclusion would be to exclude many track day riders from events....is that what Hampton Downs really wants ?

No person or bike (apart from the scrutineering side of things) is excluded and i'm not sure how you've managed to come to that conclusion from the information provided.

[vinducati]

How about if you don't like the Californian Superbike RideDay rules you don't attend those trackdays.

The track can be dry hired...
Cheers

[Mort]

No person or bike (apart from the scrutineering side of things) is excluded and i'm not sure how you've managed to come to that conclusion from the information provided.

The basis of this argument is that videos could be used as a timing device right ?

But, if I ride a bike with a lap timer fitted as standard, that is permitted under these rules and I will be allowed to ride.

But if I fit a lap timer, that is not permitted and will be excluded from the event ?

I could carry my iphone in my pocket equipped with GPS laptimer software (http://www.gps-laptimer.de/) or will scrutinerring include a strip search too ?

The point is that you cannot prevent lap timing by a number of different and covert means so why bother ? Of all the possible means of timing, video is probably the least effective anyway.

Here's another scenario. Some people bring their road bikes to track days to improve their skills in a safe environment and take out insurance to protect their bikes etc. Other people bring their race bikes to practice their racing skills. Racers are interested in lapping as fast as they possibly can. Pushing the absolute limits of the bike and themselves. And yet they are permitted to ride along side road riders who, for insurance purposes cannot equip their bikes with a small video camera as a means to record the event. Where is the greater hazard here ? The racer hell bent on going as fast as humanly possible or the bloke with a camera on his bike ? I'm not saying racers are dangerous (I am not) but his "risk profile" is substantially higher than the bloke out for a ride on a track with a video camera. The entire scenario of banning video cameras in this context seems ludicrous to me. Trackdays have risks and video cameras do not significantly add to that risk.

OK its not the end of the world, and it wont prevent me from riding, but it is, without doubt, a bloody stupid rule.

[Devil]

Here's another scenario. Some people bring their road bikes to track days to improve their skills in a safe environment and take out insurance to protect their bikes etc. Other people bring their race bikes to practice their racing skills. Racers are interested in lapping as fast as they possibly can. Pushing the absolute limits of the bike and themselves. And yet they are permitted to ride along side road riders...

They're permitted to ride along side road riders as long as they're obeying the rules, in particular safe passing.

The end game is that it is a ride day, not a race training day. Centered around enjoying yourself and your bike and others doing the same in a controlled environment.

These are the rules and we all have to live with it, myself included.

[Mort]

The end game is that it is a ride day, not a race training day. Centered around enjoying yourself and your bike and others doing the same in a controlled environment.


So riders with videos are "race training" and those without are having a ride day.... OK.... that makes sense.:bash:

[johan]

Not me, but I have no reason to doubt they have exclusive commercial rights, Devil's confirmed it and kiwitrackdays have also.
The camera rule is a Hampton Downs Ride Days (and California Superbike School) rule, not a rule of the track, afaik.

As a side note, I went to the last track tour yesterday. It's looking good. :D

That's odd, I thought CSS used cameras as a tool to film you, to point out areas where you can improve?

[vinducati]

I think they do that as part of the SUPERBIKE SCHOOL DAY, not RIDE DAYS

[Devil]

So riders with videos are "race training" and those without are having a ride day.... OK.... that makes sense.:bash:

Not half out of context...

[Morcs]

You could argue that video cameras on a coro could be used for timing laps of the loop too...

[johan]

Anyway... The camera rule is fine with me... As long as they don't stop us from riding the wheels off the thing (in a controlled environment of course)! :done:

[Tony.OK]

Been a while since I've done a trackday, so are most companies not allowing the use of a timer even if its on a racebike?
I've used mine at the Redline days, but haven't been to a MottoTT day for a while.
Is it more the insurance company rather than the Track day organisers?
Can't see the problem as long as the track rules are followed, passing etc.

[Kiwi Graham]

If you want to check lap times use your mate (pit crew) to time you. On your own? use the little transponder timers, place the reciever disccreetly on the side of the circuit ( they pick up a fair distance away) and carry the transmitter easy as.

I suspect CSS may be wanting to sell you images/video of the day shot by their guy and dont want the free version self shot by the indervidual. The racing timing thing is prob just their justification for banning them :innocent:

[johan]

Been a while since I've done a trackday, so are most companies not allowing the use of a timer even if its on a racebike?
I've used mine at the Redline days, but haven't been to a MottoTT day for a while.
Is it more the insurance company rather than the Track day organisers?
Can't see the problem as long as the track rules are followed, passing etc.

They could have a fast/race group where timing is allowed that no insurance company would have to be involved with?

And then the normal groups of slow/medium no timing, insured etc...

That way riders could choose/have options no?

[Devil]

I suspect CSS may be wanting to sell you images/video of the day shot by their guy and dont want the free version self shot by the indervidual.

Video and still camera's are not banned from the side of the track.

This is for Hampton Downs Ride Days.

[325rocket]

as long as they let a rider and a bike on ill be happy.
i cant wait for this track to open.

[aquahort]

My son and I record my rides on my Suzuki Hayabusa at track days with up to 3 cameras which others find technically very interesting. Check out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH1UEFb5k9c

We will be pissed off, not being able to do that, so far two insurance companies have not banned cameras, and why would they,it could be used against you if they wanted to in event of misconduct.

[Mort]

Nice shots John....