Taming the R6

[Maki]

After an interesting experience this weekend (a violent tank slapper) I suddenly gained a great deal more interest in my bikes suspension and the various ways it can be adjusted. I came across some interesting and useful information on the internet and I would like to share some of it. There is a lot of great stuff here (enough material for a book) regarding suspension setup.

http://aprilia.rsvmille.home.comcast.net/~aprilia.rsvmille/bikes/suspension_guide.htm#TANKSLAPPER

"TANKSLAPPER

Problem: A tankslapping bike feels unstable, especially when entering turns. The bars seem to "twitch" excessively whenever a midcorner bump is encountered. The bars often whip back and forth violently several times (or more) when A tankslapping bike is accelerating aggressively over bumps while coming out of a turn--in other words, a "tankslapper." The bike steers very easily, although a lack of traction is sometimes noticeable in the rear whenever he tries to accelerate at moderate lean angles. The bike also seems to have a dropped-down, "nose low, rear-end-high" attitude while riding.

Cause: If the bike feels this way, then probably there is too much front end weight bias

Solution: The biggest distinguishing factor in this case is the "nose-low/rear-end-high" chassis attitude feeling. . This not only hinders traction at the rear, but also affects the steering geometry (steeper rake/less trail) and can cause the instability problems. As long as the bike is suspension static sag levels set correctly, the first step is to try less rear spring preload and/or more front preload, to the point just before they begin to affect handling negatively; You should remember to adjust his rebound damping if necessary (in fact, he should check to see if decreasing the front rebound damping in small increments helps; the forks may be too stiff, hindering traction). If only partially successful, a more drastic step would be changing chassis ride height; this would involve raising the front end by dropping the fork tubes in the triple clamps (if there's enough material protruding above the top clamp, to ensure front fork structural integrity), and/or dropping the rear by shortening the rear shock (if possible).

Note: We've also seen a tankslapping tendency produced by too much rearward weight bias. The bike might try to be working the opposite of the preceding paragraph solution, or check out the understeer/no front traction problem scenario for more suggestions. "

************************************************** ***********************************************

Well, sounds like great advice. I ended up dropping the ride height in the rear to one notch above the minimum and raising the ride height in the front to one notch below the maximum. I also backed off on the damping on most dampers to mid way between full soft and factory standard. I backed off on the front rebound slightly more than that.

I took her for a spin and goodness, she feels different. The bike is higher up front and lower in the back which makes for a more comfortable riding position. It feels more nimble and easier to flick around in the cut and thrust of city traffic. So, I am happy. Hopefully she will be less prone to tank slappers as well.

I think that the bike might be better on settings near factory standard for the track but I think the changes I made make good sense for street riding.

I reckon that since the manufacturer took the trouble to put an adjustable suspension on your bike and you have paid for it, then you should learn to make the most of it.

Also remember that your tires are an integral part of your bikes suspension so keep your tire pressures correct.

[carbonhed]

How did you provoke the tankslapper?

Did you get the static sags set properly?

You changed a lot of stuff all at once... dunno about that. What's comfort got to do with an R6?

Don't know enough to really help you but interested in your exploration.

[Maki]

How did you provoke the tankslapper?

Did you get the static sags set properly?

You changed a lot of stuff all at once... dunno about that. What's comfort got to do with an R6?

Don't know enough to really help you but interested in your exploration.

The tankslapper happened while riding pretty much in a straight line under neutral throttle. I hit a series of bumps, may have bottomed out the front suspension on one, and that set off the oscillation (tank slapper).

I did not set the static sag since that is not relevant to what I am trying to achieve.

If I can make the bike a little more comfortable without screwing the handling I am happy. I may end up firming the damping up a little from what I have got now. I just want to ride the bike for a while first before making more changes.

I don't think anyone can help with this and this may not be very helpful to other riders. Each will have their own preferences. I think it is a good idea for you to play around with the settings and find out what works for you. People have different weights and different riding styles so there is no solution that will work for everyone.

[phoenixgtr]

I did not set the static sag since that is not relevant to what I am trying to achieve.



It is very very relevant. Setting the static sag to your weight is always the first thing you should do. If there's too much sag it may have been what caused the bottoming out in the first place. If there's not enough the front tire may be skipping off the road over bumps and causing no end of troubles.

Preload first, and then ride height geometry if necessary.

[Maki]

Preload first, and then ride height geometry if necessary.

Great! Please tell me how to change the ride height without adjusting the preload. If it involves taking things apart and welding I am not interested.

[carbonhed]

It is very very relevant. Setting the static sag to your weight is always the first thing you should do. If there's too much sag it may have been what caused the bottoming out in the first place. If there's not enough the front tire may be skipping off the road over bumps and causing no end of troubles.

Preload first, and then ride height geometry if necessary.

When I got my static sags set I was complaining to the guy about the harsh ride from the rear shock and bitching about getting punted around over every bump. He checked the sag and wanted to increase the preload... we had a "spirited" discussion over how the fuck increasing the preload was going to make for a more supple ride and in the end I decided to leave and have a think about it.

After a couple of days cogitation I went back wound the preload up and because I was now riding further up the shocks stroke the ride was more supple... suspension is weird ass shit.

[johan]

When I got my static sags set I was complaining to the guy about the harsh ride from the rear shock and bitching about getting punted around over every bump. He checked the sag and wanted to increase the preload... we had a "spirited" discussion over how the fuck increasing the preload was going to make for a more supple ride and in the end I decided to leave and have a think about it.

After a couple of days cogitation I went back wound the preload up and because I was now riding further up the shocks stroke the ride was more supple... suspension is weird ass shit.

That's a good point!

Many suspension linkages are progressive. You need 10 kg force for the first 10mm, 20kg for the next 10mm and so on (simplified)...

[JayRacer37]

Great! Please tell me how to change the ride height without adjusting the preload. If it involves taking things apart and welding I am not interested.

As the piece you quoted says, move the fork legs up in the triple clamps - so less is showing above the clamps. Not too difficult, do one fork at a time and there is three clamping bolts and the 'bars to undo to do it. If your not comfortable doing it best to get someone mech. minded to help, but does not need full removal or welding/modification to just change front ride height.

Yes - Staic sags are crucial in making suspension work right. Best to set them then work with mechanical ride height adjustments (as above). Just wait until Robert Taylor see's this thread!

Jay

[JayRacer37]

Also, with the R6 (I'm assuing yours is a 2006 bike like you avatar - and mine) watch you don't get the weight TOO far back - or you will run into instability and tankslappers from the opposite to the problem you have been having - to little weight on the front.

[AllanB]

Robert Taylor will sort out this thread ........:yes:

It's been a while since I heard of anyone having a tank-slapper on a modern bike. Now days the reviewers get all limp and crybaby over a wee head shake on full throttle coming out of a tight corner on a ZX10.

Ah the old days - when you were never quite sure if you'd arrive home in one piece. ;)

[Leyton]

WOW! So I am not alone trying to tame the mighty R6 hehe

[Leyton]

Great! Please tell me how to change the ride height without adjusting the preload. If it involves taking things apart and welding I am not interested.

Oh, Here I was thinking my bike might have a height adjustment but you were just setting the preload.

The preload is about your weight, not ride height. Bad things happen when you confuse the two hehe

[R6_kid]

Great! Please tell me how to change the ride height without adjusting the preload. If it involves taking things apart and welding I am not interested.

Adjusting the preload is exactly that, it only changes how much of the springs load is pre-used up. It will change how high/low the bike sits relative to the travel of the shock but nothing else. If you haven't done your static sag, then you've jumped way ahead and are setting off in the wrong direction.

Start with the basics man. Hit up Robert Taylor and ask him to send you a copy of his suspension setup guide. Read it, and use it to help set your bike up properly.

[Leyton]

That's a good point!

Many suspension linkages are progressive. You need 10 kg force for the first 10mm, 20kg for the next 10mm and so on (simplified)...

I believe the 07 R6's are Linier like mine

[Leyton]

It's been a while since I heard of anyone having a tank-slapper

I have had a few minor ones on the R6, trick is not to tence up when it happens..

Have had it under heavy throttle over bumps and neally one on Sunday when I lost the front on a tar strip on the crap road to Piha

[325rocket]

Also, with the R6 (I'm assuing yours is a 2006 bike like you avatar - and mine)

his is an 09.
is there a suspension specialist in wellington?

[325rocket]

I have had a few minor ones on the R6, trick is not to tence up when it happens..

Have had it under heavy throttle over bumps and neally one on Sunday when I lost the front on a tar strip on the crap road to Piha

this was at a fair bit of pace and was bad enough to create a decent amount of smoke off the tyre.
i would have crapped myself!

[Leyton]

this was at a fair bit of pace and was bad enough to create a decent amount of smoke off the tyre.
i would have crapped myself!

Oh Yuck! I take it you had seen it...

Ick!, I had a lock to lock on my old bike over a bump, just out of the blue!. I find with the R6 the trick is to ride it aggressively to maintain the best control as scary as that sounds :/.

Hey! Let me know how your R6 setup goes Maki . We might be able to help eachother on the path to taming our R6's hehe

[325rocket]

Oh Yuck! I take it you had seen it...


no i was in front (as a honda always is ;) ) but heard about it from the guys following.

[Leyton]

no i was in front (as a honda always is ;) ) but heard about it from the guys following.

Well the 600RR is a better road bike :)

[nsrpaul]

Well the 600RR is a better road bike :)

pah!! I tour on my r6 and its wicked, much better`than the nsr i used to use for long trips

[Maki]

As the piece you quoted says, move the fork legs up in the triple clamps - so less is showing above the clamps. Not too difficult, do one fork at a time and there is three clamping bolts and the 'bars to undo to do it. If your not comfortable doing it best to get someone mech. minded to help, but does not need full removal or welding/modification to just change front ride height.


Jay

Full marks, thanks.

I will have fun sorting this out for myself.

[Maki]

When I got my static sags set I was complaining to the guy about the harsh ride from the rear shock and bitching about getting punted around over every bump. He checked the sag and wanted to increase the preload... we had a "spirited" discussion over how the fuck increasing the preload was going to make for a more supple ride and in the end I decided to leave and have a think about it.

After a couple of days cogitation I went back wound the preload up and because I was now riding further up the shocks stroke the ride was more supple... suspension is weird ass shit.

Increasing the preload increases the ride height. It does not stiffen the spring. The only way to stiffen the spring is to replace it with a stiffer one...

[Maki]

Adjusting the preload is exactly that, it only changes how much of the springs load is pre-used up. It will change how high/low the bike sits relative to the travel of the shock but nothing else. If you haven't done your static sag, then you've jumped way ahead and are setting off in the wrong direction.

Start with the basics man. Hit up Robert Taylor and ask him to send you a copy of his suspension setup guide. Read it, and use it to help set your bike up properly.

If you set the basic sag first, you make the whole exercise pointless if you then adjust the geometry by adjusting the front and rear preload. The only way to set sag is to set the preload and if you then change the preload to alter the geometry you may as well not have bothered.

This is the reason I said that setting sag was not relevant in this case.

[Maki]

Oh, Here I was thinking my bike might have a height adjustment but you were just setting the preload.

The preload is about your weight, not ride height. Bad things happen when you confuse the two hehe

Changing the preload changes the height. Just set the preload to the minimum, bounce the bike up and down a bit so it does not stick because of stiction and measure the height. Then crank the preload to the max, bounce the bike and measure. Ride height has changed.

[Leyton]

Changing the preload changes the height. Just set the preload to the minimum, bounce the bike up and down a bit so it does not stick because of stiction and measure the height. Then crank the preload to the max, bounce the bike and measure. Ride height has changed.

Then why do they bother with ride height adjusters on some bikes ?

[Maki]

Yes - Staic sags are crucial in making suspension work right. Best to set them then work with mechanical ride height adjustments (as above). Just wait until Robert Taylor see's this thread!

Jay

I guess I am taking a short cut to all this. If I am not happy after I test my setup I might consider going the extra mile and mechanically change the ride height. Cheers.

[Maki]

Then why do they bother with ride height adjusters on some bikes ?

Dunno. Mine doesn't have one. There is a way to change the height like a wise man mentioned by moving the fork legs in the triple clamp.

[Leyton]

Dunno. Mine doesn't have one. There is a way to change the height like a wise man mentioned by moving the fork legs in the triple clamp.

When I got my R6 I backed off my preload a bit because I am a feather. By backing off the preload, the resault was it did "sag" the bike a fraction, but the spring is not "loaded" as much. End resualt is it takes the power out of the spring so the R6 does not throw me off! hehe

You can lower your tripple clamps on the forks a bit, it will change your rake unless you can compensate with the rear but you are starting to move the bike outside of it's design parameters.. but I would be interested to know the results on that trial hehe

[Gremlin]

Not too difficult, do one fork at a time and there is three clamping bolts and the 'bars to undo to do it. If your not comfortable doing it best to get someone mech. minded to help, but does not need full removal or welding/modification to just change front ride height.
Lies... its hard work when you have no idea what you're doing... ask aff-man http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=26464 :whistle:

I would suggest getting someone who knows about suspension to assist you, as its reasonably complicated (and very important) :yes:

[Maki]

Also, with the R6 (I'm assuing yours is a 2006 bike like you avatar - and mine) watch you don't get the weight TOO far back - or you will run into instability and tankslappers from the opposite to the problem you have been having - to little weight on the front.

I have the 2009. I just like that picture. The R6 has a lot of weight forward so I am not worried. NZ Autocar magazine tested the R6 and measured it's weight as 109kg over the front wheel and 83 kg over the rear (they know their bikes, they test a few every month). They actually had what they called a "tank-slapper of vintage bike proportions."

[carbonhed]

The idea that you're going to blunder around changing stuff left right and centre and come up with a cure is laughable... but good luck anyway.

[Odakyu-sen]

WOW! So I am not alone trying to tame the mighty R6 hehe

R6 -- she need steering damper real bad. It is her nature. :yes:

[carbonhed]

Increasing the preload increases the ride height. It does not stiffen the spring. The only way to stiffen the spring is to replace it with a stiffer one...

It's a rising rate linkage.

[Leyton]

R6 -- she need steering damper real bad. It is her nature. :yes:

Yeah, I am not sure why they do not come on them standard! I have not got one yet.

$800-$1000!! gulp!

[JayRacer37]

I have the 2009. I just like that picture. The R6 has a lot of weight forward so I am not worried. NZ Autocar magazine tested the R6 and measured it's weight as 109kg over the front wheel and 83 kg over the rear (they know their bikes, they test a few every month). They actually had what they called a "tank-slapper of vintage bike proportions."

2009 is very similar. Love them all - 2006 on. Yeah, Yamaha really have it front heavy! Kinda like the Triumph. IMO, both like to have the weight moved back a bit for drive grip (Also does help for stability though :)) although some people (Including both factories testers it would seem) like it REALLY nose heavy.

Also with wheel weights its worth remembering that that number could be well different for individual wheel weights with the rider on. The Yammy is so short with a long swingarm and a seat relatively far back for the length of the bike that stick a rider on it and the weight will trasfer back quite a wee bit. :)

[steelestring]

his is an 09.
is there a suspension specialist in wellington?

kerry dukie! he knows how to set a bike up for sure.

[325rocket]

kerry dukie! he knows how to set a bike up for sure.

did you get yours sorted?

[Maki]

The idea that you're going to blunder around changing stuff left right and centre and come up with a cure is laughable... but good luck anyway.

It feels nicer to ride now than when I started. That works for me.

[Leyton]

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.nz/yshop/index.asp?product_list.asp?catid=2 <----


Dear Santa......

[Cr1MiNaL]

One of the best bikes I have ridden. I dropped the forks 2 mm down on the front and it made the steering so much more responsive to my inputs.

[steelestring]

did you get yours sorted?

Hmmmmmm i am heavy... no matter what i click I must spend some money on some new suspension bits... fact! springs and lobbing the bottoms off the original front cartrideges, weild front bits in and tune.... rear is re-spring, some more cut and weilding valves bla bla bla and some more.... is the cheapest and best bang for my buck... basically dont ride a sports bike is you weigh in at 110 in the birthday suit. yss rear suspension maybe?

[325rocket]

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.nz/yshop/index.asp?product_list.asp?catid=2 <----


Dear Santa......


Dear Santa 2 ... ..... (http://www.bikegearwarehouse.com.au/Motorcycle_Parts_And_Accessories/YZFR6_20)

[Cr1MiNaL]

Oh by the way I have an Ohlins rear shock for the R6 which I will list on tardme soon. Pm me.

[Odakyu-sen]

Yeah, I am not sure why they do not come on them standard! I have not got one yet.

$800-$1000!! gulp!

The Ohlins dampers are generic, although the mounting brackets will be model-specific.

I couldn't justify the Ohlins treatment if I wasn't going to keep a bike for at least 5 years. :eek5:

[Maki]

The Ohlins dampers are generic, although the mounting brackets will be model-specific.

I couldn't justify the Ohlins treatment if I wasn't going to keep a bike for at least 5 years. :eek5:

Steeringu dampa wa chotto takai desu ne...

[Leyton]

I couldn't justify the Ohlins treatment if I wasn't going to keep a bike for at least 5 years. :eek5:

Me neither!

[Odakyu-sen]

steeringu dampa wa chotto takai desu ne...

でもr6にハンドルダンパーを付けないといけないよ。<_<

[Leyton]

でもr6にハンドルダンパーを付けないといけないよ。<_<

I agree.:niceone:

[captain_andrey]

One of the main reasons I picked a CBR over the R6 (which I liked a lot) was the steering dampener. It works magic.

[Maki]

One of the main reasons I picked a CBR over the R6 (which I liked a lot) was the steering dampener. It works magic.

But the R6 is better! :argue:

[SVboy]

I had a couple of major slappers on my 08 zx6r. One mid-corner had me looking for god! It was either Ohlins or....a new bike, and the change over to the gsxr was a great move. You paid a lot for your r6-whats a few more $$ getting a professional to set up base settings on your bike? Also, should moving fork legs around in triple clamps not involve some careful torque wrenching at factory tightness, to avoid any chance of distorting internals?

[Odakyu-sen]

One of the main reasons I picked a CBR over the R6 (which I liked a lot) was the steering dampener. It works magic.

Yeah, back in 2001 I tried both the CBR600F3 and the YZF-R6N. The Honda was like a pair of comfy, sensible shoes. The ergonomics were incredibly good.

The R6 was a mad little squid with the heart of a lion. Straight away it was obvious that Yamaha had put all its money into the frame and engine. I knew I would have to spend up big time on the suspension and fit a steering damper to tame the spastic front end.

[vifferman]

If you set the basic sag first, you make the whole exercise pointless if you then adjust the geometry by adjusting the front and rear preload. The only way to set sag is to set the preload and if you then change the preload to alter the geometry you may as well not have bothered.

This is the reason I said that setting sag was not relevant in this case.
WTF are you talking about?!? I don't think you even know what sag is!
You use the preload to set the sag - there's no other way to do it, except by changing springs!
The static sag is the amount the bike compresses the suspension, and the rider sag is the amount the bike + rider compresses the suspension. The latter should be about 25-30% of the suspension's total travel. The sag depends on the spring rate, and the amount of force applied to the spring, which is entirely due to the weight of the bike, the weight of the rider, and the spring compression applied by the preload adjusters.

Yes, the preload changes the geometry somewhat, but the most fundamental thing with setting up your suspension is to set the proper sag first, using the preload adjusters.
If you end up with unwanted geometry changes, you can (to some extent) rectify these by moving the forks up/down a little bit in the triple clamps, and by adjusting the rear ride-height adjustment, if your shock has this.

[Maki]

WTF are you talking about?!? I don't think you even know what sag is!
You use the preload to set the sag - there's no other way to do it, except by changing springs!
The static sag is the amount the bike compresses the suspension, and the rider sag is the amount the bike + rider compresses the suspension. The latter should be about 25-30% of the suspension's total travel. The sag depends on the spring rate, and the amount of force applied to the spring, which is entirely due to the weight of the bike, the weight of the rider, and the spring compression applied by the preload adjusters.

Yes, the preload changes the geometry somewhat, but the most fundamental thing with setting up your suspension is to set the proper sag first, using the preload adjusters.
If you end up with unwanted geometry changes, you can (to some extent) rectify these by moving the forks up/down a little bit in the triple clamps, and by adjusting the rear ride-height adjustment, if your shock has this.

It's nice to see so many knowledgeable people contributing. You wrote:

1. "The sag depends on the spring rate, and

2. the amount of force applied to the spring, which is entirely due to the weight of the bike, the weight of the rider, and

3. the spring compression applied by the preload adjusters."

************************************************** ********************************

1. I am not about to change springs until I run into some problem that convinces me that I need to. I haven't, so I won't.

2. The amount of force applied to the spring is not going to change. I am not about to carry weights to change it.

3. That leaves the preload adjusters. I am using them to alter the geometry of the bike to mitigate a tendency for tank slappers. A side effect is that the bike is more comfortable to ride. I can either do that, or I can slavishly adjust the sag according to what some "experts" tell me it is supposed to be and leave it at that. I am sure the real experts will agree that the only real authority regarding how your bike feels and what you achieve with changes to the suspension is YOU. You ride your bike, you make changes, are you happy or are you not? What are YOU feeling?

I set out to change the geometry to mitigate tank slappers. I don't know if I have achieved this, they happen rarely thank goodness. What I have noticed is that the changes I made made my bike nicer to ride as experienced by ME and that makes me happy. The bike never felt so good for the kind of city riding that I do most of the time. The idea of lifting the front end and lowering the rear comes both from the article I posted originally and from a test of the R6 that I read. According to the testers the R6 has a relatively high seat and low bars and this can make street riding fatiguing. I can only agree with that. Advice they received from Yamaha technicians was to raise the front and lower the rear to make the bike more comfortable. Well it works for me. It also makes the bike handle better at low speeds which is nice.

I dialed in slightly more damping today and I am amazed by the difference one click and half a turn on the adjusters makes. The bike feels markedly more solid at high speeds.

In the end I think that it's you and your bike. Make some changes and see what effects it has. If it's hopeless go to experts and have your springs changed and fork out $$$ for extra virgin snake oil. If you are happy with what you have got, great, even if what you did is not exactly what it says you should do according to some book.

[jimbo_on_travels]

I have had a few minor ones on the R6, trick is not to tence up when it happens..

Have had it under heavy throttle over bumps and neally one on Sunday when I lost the front on a tar strip on the crap road to Piha


Totally agree about not tensing up.. had a tank slapper not too long ago in the wet on my R6 - went to do a left corner through a shallow puddle, no more than 50km/h and the front dropped into a slightly deeper spot. I now don't do puddles!!

[Maki]

What I have done has raised the center of the bikes gravity. I have lowered the rear slightly from what I had before but raised the front by about 10mm. I guess the center of gravity has gone up by about 7mm give or take. The bike feels more responsive and quicker handling than before. I previously put this down to the fact that the slightly improved riding position made it easier for me to counter steer, etc... The change in geometry should have made the bike handling slightly slower than what it was, I have made the head angle a little less steep after all. I have given this some more thought and my conclusion is that changing the center of gravity must have quickened the handling.

I have been researching what effects changing the center of gravity should have according to theory. I found this:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/22dec00apriliarsvmille.html

"Aprilia raised the position of its engine 5mm. The base Mille started life with a fixed engine position (and the new model also has a fixed engine position), but Aprilia thought enough of the performance advantages of a higher engine position to redesign its frame and relocate the engine in the new model.

This seemingly subtle change comes straight out of the experience with the homologated version raced so successfully by Troy Corser in World Superbike last year. By raising the engine position, Aprilia accomplished two things, namely, (1) a more centralized mass (which aids turning), and (2) a higher center of gravity (which, contrary to popular belief, tends to aid turning, as well).

I am sure we have some readers who are engineers (and I am sure I will receive some e-mail on this), but here is a somewhat controversial proposition. It shouldn't be controversial, but apparently it is. A higher center of gravity on a motorcycle, all other things being equal, will result in a quicker turning motorcycle. Think of a pendulum. If a pendulum is standing straight up, a pendulum with a higher, heavier weight will fall to its side easier. Simple enough. A motorcycle with a higher center of gravity will also respond quicker to a rider's efforts to lean it over (while standing it back up is another issue)."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So, the higher centre of gravity has more than compensated for the fact that I made the head angle more slack than it was before. Interesting stuff. Apparently this is controversial but true in my experience.

[carbonhed]

So what do you think the downsides of your changes will be? After all there's no free lunch. Improvements in one area come at the expense of reduced performance in another.

I reckon that rasing the front end 10mm will mean that the front end will wash out sooner, but it'll do it slower so you may be able to catch it, and you'll wind up with more tankslappers... but hey it's a better communter so... :Punk:

[Maki]

So what do you think the downsides of your changes will be? After all there's no free lunch. Improvements in one area come at the expense of reduced performance in another.

I reckon that rasing the front end 10mm will mean that the front end will wash out sooner, but it'll do it slower so you may be able to catch it, and you'll wind up with more tankslappers... but hey it's a better communter so... :Punk:

Good question.

I reckon the downsides are less stability, the front end will probably wash out sooner when pushed hard and the bike will be more prone to lift the front wheel during hard acceleration. All these downsides are much more relevant to track use than use on the street so I can live with them. I would probably change the bike to something near factory settings if I took it to the track.

On the street the pluses significantly outweigh the minuses.

[johan]

Interesting topic.

Will the front wash out more easily if there is less front end bias or the other way around?

Another way to look at it, is the front more likely to wash out if I stay on the throttle through a corner (transfer a bit weight to rear) or if I'm off throttle, more front end weight?

When the front lets go, do you crack the throttle to save the low side, or stay off the throttle all together?

Any thoughts?

[carbonhed]

I don't ride at that kind of level to really know but I suspect that if my front end started to slide the throttle would slam shut even faster than my arsehole... however that's bound to be exactly the wrong thing to do :laugh:

As a theory I suspect that before the thing actually starts to slide more front end bias will bring more grip. Once it starts to slide surely you've got to relieve some of the pressure on the front before it will grip? Stay on the gas, hang loose and pray?

[Leyton]

Stay on the gas, hang loose and pray, Gyro is a wonderful friend

[vifferman]

That leaves the preload adjusters. I am using them to alter the geometry of the bike to mitigate a tendency for tank slappers.
Yes, adjusting the preload adjusts the geometry of the bike. To a limited extent.
That wasn't my point - it was to do with the semantics of what you said.
If you going to set your bike up properly, you need to start with setting the suspension sag properly, to set a baseline, and to establish whether the springing is correct, based on static and rider sag. If it is within limits, then you can go on to adjust the damping, raise/lower the forks in the triple clamps, etc. If the springing is not right, you're chasing your tail trying to get the bike to handle properly.

[Maki]

Yes, adjusting the preload adjusts the geometry of the bike. To a limited extent.
That wasn't my point - it was to do with the semantics of what you said.
If you going to set your bike up properly, you need to start with setting the suspension sag properly, to set a baseline, and to establish whether the springing is correct, based on static and rider sag. If it is within limits, then you can go on to adjust the damping, raise/lower the forks in the triple clamps, etc. If the springing is not right, you're chasing your tail trying to get the bike to handle properly.

It was never my intention to set my bike up "properly". The R6 is one of the stiffest bikes out there out of the box. If I wanted a softer bike I would have got one. I am not about to change the springs of this race bred machine so that I can set it up with a way that suits the average rider on the average bike. That is just not my style.

I like to challenge myself, learn for myself and gain experience.

As it is I am delighted with the way the bike handles. I could care less if that is not "proper" in your opinion. You are not riding my bike.

[Odakyu-sen]

...

As it is I am delighted with the way the bike handles. I could care less if that is not "proper" in your opinion. You are not riding my bike.

A: Do you have the stock rear suspension on your R6?
B: How much do you weigh on the bathroom scales (wearing only your fundoshi) :shifty:
C: Do you get bounced out of the seat on rough roads at 140 km/hr or so?

If the answer to A is Yes, B is less than 80 kg and C is Yes, then your spring could be a little too strong.

[Leyton]

A: Do you have the stock rear suspension on your R6?
B: How much do you weigh on the bathroom scales (wearing only your fundoshi) :shifty:
C: Do you get bounced out of the seat on rough roads at 140 km/hr or so?

If the answer to A is Yes, B is less than 80 kg and C is Yes, then your spring could be a little too strong.

Yeah I had to back mine off one knotch! and thats all it took to stop me from flying out of the seat. I was too lite :)

[Leyton]

As it is I am delighted with the way the bike handles.

I feel I have missed your point to this post ? sorry.

I think to conclude from what I have "skim read"


You have a track bike, not a road bike. Yamaha built it for the track then realised that the riders had spent too much money on the bike that they can not offord a ute to tack it to the track, so they made it road legal. (Not far from the truth)
Start with preload first, Preload is about spring "Pre..Load" not height. It is about 'Pre' Charging energy into the spring. Get a height adjustment kit for the R6 if you want to piss with height.. On the other coin, if the soft preload has given you higher or lower.. and it is working for you.. thumbs up.
Acually go an talk to someone experience face to face regarding suspension, you may be supprised what they have to say.
Stick within the parameters of the bikes intended design, or not. Horse's for courses tho
If you like how it feels, handles and you have stuck a peice of 4x2 in place of the rear shock because you like it stiff, who cares. It's how you feel when you are riding it.
Do not adjust everything at once. Make sure you keep a log aswell


Preload.. well..

Take a spring, pen spring, Compress it. When you release it , it hits you in the eye. Or there abouts..

On a bike it is the same, but your weight is applying the compression, your weight is charging that spring. Under a situation when the spring can uncompress, like the trailing edge of a bump in the road the spring since it is compressed more (due to the pre-load been set harder), the spring is more tort, it will decompress quicker with more effort. The resault is, if your weight is too lite, you will have a very bouncey bike, this can lead to traction issues on the rear wheel.

If you have a looser pre load, it does not decompress as fast. Same can be said for the compression aswell (Or Sag, when your ass sits on it), it will be lower, but it will squat alot more.

[Maki]

A: Do you have the stock rear suspension on your R6?
B: How much do you weigh on the bathroom scales (wearing only your fundoshi) :shifty:
C: Do you get bounced out of the seat on rough roads at 140 km/hr or so?

If the answer to A is Yes, B is less than 80 kg and C is Yes, then your spring could be a little too strong.

The answer to C is a resounding no.

Thanks.

[YellowDog]

140kph - huh - that's not legal.

But seriously, I think that this cause for donation is a better one than the bridge adventure thingy.

[Odakyu-sen]

The answer to C is a resounding no.

Thanks.

Great! (Sounds about right, then.) :done:

[Leyton]

Hey, I found something today!

I took my bike into the shop.. my rebound on the front was set incorrectly from the start! so they set it to the factory 15 clicks and WOW...

It is like riding a new bike, However! It will take alot to get used to it :( I am used to the bike trying to kill me.. now the ride was as smooth as going around corners, It was like WTF!

[Odakyu-sen]

Hey, I found something today!

I took my bike into the shop.. my rebound on the front was set incorrectly from the start! so they set it to the factory 15 clicks and WOW...

It is like riding a new bike, However! It will take alot to get used to it :( I am used to the bike trying to kill me.. now the ride was as smooth as going around corners, It was like WTF!

What? Both forks or just one?

Don't assume that both forks are set up the same way; there may be a couple of clicks difference between their settings.

It pays to play with the settings and see whether the factory settings are suitable for gnarly NZ roads. These are imported bikes. They aren't Made in New Zealand for NZ conditions. :pinch:

[Leyton]

What? Both forks or just one?

Don't assume that both forks are set up the same way; there may be a couple of clicks difference between their settings.

It pays to play with the settings and see whether the factory settings are suitable for gnarly NZ roads. These are imported bikes. They aren't Made in New Zealand for NZ conditions. :pinch:

He reset both forks back to the factory 15 clicks. What I thought was the 15 clicks was different!!. I was not familure with the feel of a closed valve in the rebound adjustment of the front forks :)

I will tweak it harder if I am not happy with it as I go :). I am just now not used to the way it gives me stuff all feedback around a corner hehe, it has smoothed it out!

I will keep an eye on how comfortable the bike is around the corner, I think it has taken a little bit of the tightness out of its cornering but it does feel much better. Need to go for a good hard twisty blat and see. The rain limited me a bit yesterday and my mind was not on task.

[Dave-]

What I have done has raised the center of the bikes gravity. I have lowered the rear slightly from what I had before but raised the front by about 10mm. I guess the center of gravity has gone up by about 7mm give or take. The bike feels more responsive and quicker handling than before. I previously put this down to the fact that the slightly improved riding position made it easier for me to counter steer, etc... The change in geometry should have made the bike handling slightly slower than what it was, I have made the head angle a little less steep after all. I have given this some more thought and my conclusion is that changing the center of gravity must have quickened the handling.

...etc...

So, the higher centre of gravity has more than compensated for the fact that I made the head angle more slack than it was before. Interesting stuff. Apparently this is controversial but true in my experience.

all true, except your change in direction will be slower, heavier and longer.

there's always a trade off.

[surfchick]

I just switched from a 996 to an r6 - but in transit the r6 front fork blew a seal... so I have the seal whole set-up to do... left it in the shop today for the seal, once its back its sort the suspension time...
was glad you lit up this thread....

[wbks]

I just switched from a 996 to an r6 - but in transit the r6 front fork blew a seal... so I have the seal whole set-up to do... left it in the shop today for the seal, once its back its sort the suspension time...
was glad you lit up this thread....Why the switch, if you don't mind me asking?

[Maki]

all true, except your change in direction will be slower, heavier and longer.

there's always a trade off.

I thought it would be but the fact is that the higher center of gravity seems to have more than off-set the slacker head angle. The bike is actually a lot keener to change direction than it was before. When I first got the R6 I was a bit surprised by the handling. While it was nice and stable mid-corner it needed a clear message to initiate turns and make transitions. In other words the handling was a little slower than I would have suspected. I find the handling quite sharp now and it will change direction with much less urging than before...

[Maki]

Hey, I found something today!

I took my bike into the shop.. my rebound on the front was set incorrectly from the start! so they set it to the factory 15 clicks and WOW...

It is like riding a new bike, However! It will take alot to get used to it :( I am used to the bike trying to kill me.. now the ride was as smooth as going around corners, It was like WTF!

Holy crap! I find that one click makes a noticeable difference. I am glad you got yours sorted out. Try softening the damping gradually until your bike feels like it wallows slightly at speed. Then tighten it up until the wallow is gone. That should make a good setting.

[Leyton]

Holy crap! I find that one click makes a noticeable difference. I am glad you got yours sorted out. Try softening the damping gradually until your bike feels like it wallows slightly at speed. Then tighten it up until the wallow is gone. That should make a good setting.

That is good advice, I found that happening yesterday so I have her at 13 clicks now, Two clicks tigher than factory and GOSH! It is like a new bike. I might take it to 12 clicks though to get even more feedback through the front, it is what I am used too. But till leave it how it is for a while :P Going up the Kaimai's yesterday was just brillent! The bike was very VERY very smooth and just did the business.

[surfchick]

Why the switch, if you don't mind me asking?

Sold the 996 to switch to mx, then didn't have time to get out to south AK, and missed the road so back to road riding... this time thought I'd go to 600cc for fun/ more track days and a change of engine style. One slight irritation with the 996 was living with the snatchy clutch once it was hot... i loved that it was raw, but I must admit I'm also enjoying how buttery smooth the r6 is :) so far... there are some things I miss about the ducati tho-but until I have a few track days on the r6 I won't know which I'm into more :) just picked the nu baby up from Ray today and the suspension feels pretty nice so far

[wbks]

Sold the 996 to switch to mx, then didn't have time to get out to south AK, and missed the road so back to road riding... this time thought I'd go to 600cc for fun/ more track days and a change of engine style. One slight irritation with the 996 was living with the snatchy clutch once it was hot... i loved that it was raw, but I must admit I'm also enjoying how buttery smooth the r6 is :) so far... there are some things I miss about the ducati tho-but until I have a few track days on the r6 I won't know which I'm into more :) just picked the nu baby up from Ray today and the suspension feels pretty nice so far... Well it was a Ducati, so that seems to count for a lot, plus I heard female bikers enjoy V-twins for reasons other than flat top end range and a funny sound:whistle: Seriously though, both seem like nice bikes... Lucky!

[Sidewinder]

you need lube if ya wana have good arse sex

[wbks]

you need lube if ya wana have good arse sexAll this "Arse sex"/"R6" shit you and your goonies post now makes me see "arse sex" every time I see R6, and this thread is now "Taming the arse sex"... My mind is playing tricks on me

[Sidewinder]

All this "Arse sex"/"R6" shit you and your goonies post now makes me see "arse sex" every time I see R6, and this thread is now "Taming the arse sex"... My mind is playing tricks on me

yea and no matter how ya say r6 out aloud you can still only hear arse sex lol its great, gay like the bike lol

[Dave-]

if you want to keep your money don't visit ebay.com.au and do not search for "yamaha r6" then refine the search to parts and accessories.

about to order some smoke tinted flush mount indicators. probably order an integrated tail/turn signal next week.

my bookmarks list is pretty huge.

[Cr1MiNaL]

buy my ohlins! you wont go back!!!