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Thread: Taming the R6

  1. #1
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    17th January 2008 - 13:57
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    Taming the R6

    After an interesting experience this weekend (a violent tank slapper) I suddenly gained a great deal more interest in my bikes suspension and the various ways it can be adjusted. I came across some interesting and useful information on the internet and I would like to share some of it. There is a lot of great stuff here (enough material for a book) regarding suspension setup.

    http://aprilia.rsvmille.home.comcast...tm#TANKSLAPPER

    "TANKSLAPPER

    Problem: A tankslapping bike feels unstable, especially when entering turns. The bars seem to "twitch" excessively whenever a midcorner bump is encountered. The bars often whip back and forth violently several times (or more) when A tankslapping bike is accelerating aggressively over bumps while coming out of a turn--in other words, a "tankslapper." The bike steers very easily, although a lack of traction is sometimes noticeable in the rear whenever he tries to accelerate at moderate lean angles. The bike also seems to have a dropped-down, "nose low, rear-end-high" attitude while riding.

    Cause: If the bike feels this way, then probably there is too much front end weight bias

    Solution: The biggest distinguishing factor in this case is the "nose-low/rear-end-high" chassis attitude feeling. . This not only hinders traction at the rear, but also affects the steering geometry (steeper rake/less trail) and can cause the instability problems. As long as the bike is suspension static sag levels set correctly, the first step is to try less rear spring preload and/or more front preload, to the point just before they begin to affect handling negatively; You should remember to adjust his rebound damping if necessary (in fact, he should check to see if decreasing the front rebound damping in small increments helps; the forks may be too stiff, hindering traction). If only partially successful, a more drastic step would be changing chassis ride height; this would involve raising the front end by dropping the fork tubes in the triple clamps (if there's enough material protruding above the top clamp, to ensure front fork structural integrity), and/or dropping the rear by shortening the rear shock (if possible).

    Note: We've also seen a tankslapping tendency produced by too much rearward weight bias. The bike might try to be working the opposite of the preceding paragraph solution, or check out the understeer/no front traction problem scenario for more suggestions. "

    ************************************************** ***********************************************

    Well, sounds like great advice. I ended up dropping the ride height in the rear to one notch above the minimum and raising the ride height in the front to one notch below the maximum. I also backed off on the damping on most dampers to mid way between full soft and factory standard. I backed off on the front rebound slightly more than that.

    I took her for a spin and goodness, she feels different. The bike is higher up front and lower in the back which makes for a more comfortable riding position. It feels more nimble and easier to flick around in the cut and thrust of city traffic. So, I am happy. Hopefully she will be less prone to tank slappers as well.

    I think that the bike might be better on settings near factory standard for the track but I think the changes I made make good sense for street riding.

    I reckon that since the manufacturer took the trouble to put an adjustable suspension on your bike and you have paid for it, then you should learn to make the most of it.

    Also remember that your tires are an integral part of your bikes suspension so keep your tire pressures correct.
    Ride fast or be last.

  2. #2
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    2nd November 2008 - 11:39
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    How did you provoke the tankslapper?

    Did you get the static sags set properly?

    You changed a lot of stuff all at once... dunno about that. What's comfort got to do with an R6?

    Don't know enough to really help you but interested in your exploration.

  3. #3
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    17th January 2008 - 13:57
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonhed View Post
    How did you provoke the tankslapper?

    Did you get the static sags set properly?

    You changed a lot of stuff all at once... dunno about that. What's comfort got to do with an R6?

    Don't know enough to really help you but interested in your exploration.
    The tankslapper happened while riding pretty much in a straight line under neutral throttle. I hit a series of bumps, may have bottomed out the front suspension on one, and that set off the oscillation (tank slapper).

    I did not set the static sag since that is not relevant to what I am trying to achieve.

    If I can make the bike a little more comfortable without screwing the handling I am happy. I may end up firming the damping up a little from what I have got now. I just want to ride the bike for a while first before making more changes.

    I don't think anyone can help with this and this may not be very helpful to other riders. Each will have their own preferences. I think it is a good idea for you to play around with the settings and find out what works for you. People have different weights and different riding styles so there is no solution that will work for everyone.
    Ride fast or be last.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki View Post
    I did not set the static sag since that is not relevant to what I am trying to achieve.
    It is very very relevant. Setting the static sag to your weight is always the first thing you should do. If there's too much sag it may have been what caused the bottoming out in the first place. If there's not enough the front tire may be skipping off the road over bumps and causing no end of troubles.

    Preload first, and then ride height geometry if necessary.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixgtr View Post

    Preload first, and then ride height geometry if necessary.
    Great! Please tell me how to change the ride height without adjusting the preload. If it involves taking things apart and welding I am not interested.
    Ride fast or be last.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixgtr View Post
    It is very very relevant. Setting the static sag to your weight is always the first thing you should do. If there's too much sag it may have been what caused the bottoming out in the first place. If there's not enough the front tire may be skipping off the road over bumps and causing no end of troubles.

    Preload first, and then ride height geometry if necessary.
    When I got my static sags set I was complaining to the guy about the harsh ride from the rear shock and bitching about getting punted around over every bump. He checked the sag and wanted to increase the preload... we had a "spirited" discussion over how the fuck increasing the preload was going to make for a more supple ride and in the end I decided to leave and have a think about it.

    After a couple of days cogitation I went back wound the preload up and because I was now riding further up the shocks stroke the ride was more supple... suspension is weird ass shit.

  7. #7
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    14th April 2007 - 20:27
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonhed View Post
    When I got my static sags set I was complaining to the guy about the harsh ride from the rear shock and bitching about getting punted around over every bump. He checked the sag and wanted to increase the preload... we had a "spirited" discussion over how the fuck increasing the preload was going to make for a more supple ride and in the end I decided to leave and have a think about it.

    After a couple of days cogitation I went back wound the preload up and because I was now riding further up the shocks stroke the ride was more supple... suspension is weird ass shit.
    That's a good point!

    Many suspension linkages are progressive. You need 10 kg force for the first 10mm, 20kg for the next 10mm and so on (simplified)...

  8. #8
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    31st August 2006 - 19:55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki View Post
    Great! Please tell me how to change the ride height without adjusting the preload. If it involves taking things apart and welding I am not interested.
    As the piece you quoted says, move the fork legs up in the triple clamps - so less is showing above the clamps. Not too difficult, do one fork at a time and there is three clamping bolts and the 'bars to undo to do it. If your not comfortable doing it best to get someone mech. minded to help, but does not need full removal or welding/modification to just change front ride height.

    Yes - Staic sags are crucial in making suspension work right. Best to set them then work with mechanical ride height adjustments (as above). Just wait until Robert Taylor see's this thread!

    Jay
    Jay Lawrence #37

  9. #9
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    Also, with the R6 (I'm assuing yours is a 2006 bike like you avatar - and mine) watch you don't get the weight TOO far back - or you will run into instability and tankslappers from the opposite to the problem you have been having - to little weight on the front.
    Jay Lawrence #37

  10. #10
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    14th July 2006 - 21:39
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    Robert Taylor will sort out this thread ........

    It's been a while since I heard of anyone having a tank-slapper on a modern bike. Now days the reviewers get all limp and crybaby over a wee head shake on full throttle coming out of a tight corner on a ZX10.

    Ah the old days - when you were never quite sure if you'd arrive home in one piece.

  11. #11
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    19th November 2008 - 06:44
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    WOW! So I am not alone trying to tame the mighty R6 hehe

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki View Post
    Great! Please tell me how to change the ride height without adjusting the preload. If it involves taking things apart and welding I am not interested.
    Oh, Here I was thinking my bike might have a height adjustment but you were just setting the preload.

    The preload is about your weight, not ride height. Bad things happen when you confuse the two hehe

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maki View Post
    Great! Please tell me how to change the ride height without adjusting the preload. If it involves taking things apart and welding I am not interested.
    Adjusting the preload is exactly that, it only changes how much of the springs load is pre-used up. It will change how high/low the bike sits relative to the travel of the shock but nothing else. If you haven't done your static sag, then you've jumped way ahead and are setting off in the wrong direction.

    Start with the basics man. Hit up Robert Taylor and ask him to send you a copy of his suspension setup guide. Read it, and use it to help set your bike up properly.
    KiwiBitcher
    where opinion holds more weight than fact.

    It's better to not pass and know that you could have than to pass and find out that you can't. Wait for the straight.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan View Post
    That's a good point!

    Many suspension linkages are progressive. You need 10 kg force for the first 10mm, 20kg for the next 10mm and so on (simplified)...
    I believe the 07 R6's are Linier like mine

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    It's been a while since I heard of anyone having a tank-slapper
    I have had a few minor ones on the R6, trick is not to tence up when it happens..

    Have had it under heavy throttle over bumps and neally one on Sunday when I lost the front on a tar strip on the crap road to Piha

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