PDA

View Full Version : Think you had to work for your license?



McWild
4th October 2009, 22:22
So I've been casually researching motorcycling abroad....

and HO. LY. BALLS.

Apparently, this is how they do things in France. Apologies for the wall of text. And I think this should be here rather than Biker Politics and Law, if only because it might provide a little insight upon the easy mode that is New Zealand licensing.

http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/01262006124526MWEFSX.htm


I've received several emails about obtaining a motorcycle license here in France, mostly out of curiosity rather than necessity. It is a complicated and lengthy process, so here's the scoop:

The License

In France, as in the rest of Europe, you need to have a motorcycle license (type A) to be able to ride a motorcycle with more than 125 cc (if you have had a car license for more than 2 years, you are allowed to ride a 125 cc motorcycle with less than 15 hp).

If you're between 18 and 21 years old, you can get the "Progressive" A, meaning your motorcycle is not allowed to have more than 34 hp, and the weight/power ration may not exceed 0.16 kW/kg.

After two years riding with a "Progressive" A license, or if you are older than 21 years, you can get the "Direct" A license, that allows you to ride any motorcycle (in France all motorcycles are restricted to 100 hp maximum).

Rules of the Road

First, you need to learn the general rules of the road (unless you got your car license within the last 5 years). This means learning either in a classroom, or from self teaching.

When you're ready, you need to pass an exam. The exam is a multiple choice style, with a video projector displaying photos and/or videos. The test is timed, and you're allowed to have 5 errors for the 40 questions. Oh yeah... the test is in French.

Motorcycle Control

After you pass the rules of the road test, you need to go to a driving school. This is mandatory, as there are minimum hours you need to be "taught" how to ride. The minimum number of hours you need to train is 8 hours !

The first portion is controlling your motorcycle. This is held in a non-traffic environment, usually on an abandoned parking area. You'll learn how to ride a, usually, 600 cc modified Honda, Suzuki or Kawasaki. The modification consist of a lower power, and crash bars all around the bike.

The training is obviously in harmony with the exam. When you're deemed ready by your instructor, you need to pass the first motorcycle exam.

Motorcycle Control Exam

When you're ready, you need to reserve your first set of tests. At the exam place, you will need to do the following exams.

1. Non Driving Exercise.

The examiner will ask you to do one of several exercises. They can be "walking" your motorcycle through a pylon slalom, forwards or backwards (smaller people often have problems with this), putting your motorcycle on a center stand, etc.

You need to demonstrate that you are able to control the motorcycle even when the engine is not running.

Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.

2. Mechanical Quiz.

Next on the list are several questions about the mechanical abilities of your motorcycle. They're not very detailed, but you'll be asked how you verify your oil level, tire pressure, chains, etc.

You don't need to be mechanically apt, but you need to know the basic parts of your motorcycle.

Failure to comply, results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.


3. Oral Motorcycle Quiz.

The examiner will ask you, more or less in a conversation mode, specific questions on your ability to understand the differences between riding a motorcycle and driving a car. The questions are on specific motorcycle related laws. Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.

4. Control at Low Speed.

You need to maneuver your motorcycle through a slalom consisting of pylons in first gear. You are not allowed to touch the ground with your feet, drop a pylon or gasp, drop your bike. They check to see if your posture is correct. If you think that's easy, try it....

Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle or hitting a pylon results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.

5. Control at Low Speed with Pillion.

Next after point 4, your instructor gets behind you, and then you need to ride another track with pylons at low speed (1st gear). The instructor is not allowed to talk to you to give you advice (but usually they use their legs to signal to you what you need to do).

Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.

6. High Speed Control.

Now you need to run a fast slalom. This involves you riding your motorcycle at about 40-50 kph through several pylons, U-turn and a fast return. The whole track needs to be done between 18 and 21 seconds! If you go too fast, or too slow you disqualify ! Too fast is rare, but too slow happens all the time.

Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.

7. Emergency Control.

At the end of #6, you are required to show that you are able to perform an emergency operation. This is either an obstacle avoidance (like a car door opening - not a real one, just a pylon) followed by emergency braking, or emergency braking by using your engine. Usually the speed is about 70 kph.

You must start the maneuver at a certain point, AND you need to stop before a certain spot. If not, you're out ! Failure to comply, dropping your motorcycle results in an automatic disqualification, and you need to re-apply for the exam.

8. Oral Exam.

Once you've reach this stage you're almost done. Now you get to sit in an office, where they're going to quiz you for all the specific laws that apply only to motorcycles. It's usually in a more easy going environment, and often, at this stage, they are more or less easy going. Unless you're really stupid and answer all questions wrong, you'll pass this bit.

Traffic Riding

Although the traffic riding can be done concurrent with the motorcycle control, most schools choose to do this after the control exams (at least they know you'll not drop their precious motorcycle). You'll be riding your motorcycle equipped with an ear-piece in your helmet so you can hear your instructor talking to you via a walkie-talkie. Usually the instructor is in a car.... You need to spend at least 12 hours riding in traffic to be allowed to do your next exams.

Once your instructor deems you ready, you need to do your exam. Using the same walkie-talkie technique, the examiner drives behind you telling you which way to go. The exam lasts 30 minutes, and not complying with ANY traffic rule disqualifies you !

Points

Once you get your precious motorcycle license, you get 6 points (normally you get 12). Any infraction, speeding or rules of the road, points get deducted. Once you've got 0 points, you loose your license and you need to start from scratch, often after 3 years !!

If you've managed to ride without a loss of points for 2 years, you get the full 12 points !!

The whole process can last about one year ! There are accelerated schools, where you can try to get your permit in a few days by a concentrated education.

So, you can assume one thing. A French biker knows how to ride !!

Now I'm not saying that none of us deserve our licences...

But a process like that would sure as hell determine the men from the boys, the real riders from the posers. Don't even know if I could be bothered tbh... :bash:

Far canal!

chef
4th October 2009, 22:26
i thought waiting 18 months for a full was bad dam f that

The Pastor
4th October 2009, 22:35
high standards for the win.

rainman
4th October 2009, 22:49
Sounds like a good idea to me.... if it's as tough for a car license too.

tomobedlam
4th October 2009, 22:54
Did you see the part about all bikes being restricted to 100hp

PirateJafa
4th October 2009, 22:56
In some parts of Europe it can cost 2000-3000 NZD to get a bike license. There's a disincentive for ya.

Thani-B
4th October 2009, 22:58
So can we ride on our New Zealand licences over there? Or do we have to go through some of that process?

mstriumph
4th October 2009, 22:58
LICENCE !!! :crybaby:


(sorry - I'm having a REALLY bad day :Oops:)




....... and you are excused, Thani-B ..........

McWild
4th October 2009, 23:00
LICENCE !!! :crybaby:


(sorry - I'm having a REALLY bad day :Oops:)

OH JESUS!

I'm so sorry. Seriously I am.

I don't screw up like that.

It's something that I don't do!

ARGH!

*EDITS POST*

mstriumph
4th October 2009, 23:01
s'alright

you weren't alone :shutup:

PirateJafa
4th October 2009, 23:09
LICENCE! :crybaby:


(Sorry - I'm having a really bad day. :Oops:)




... And you are excused, Thani-B...

Fixed, MsTriumph. The BDOTGNZA demands mild flagellation as punishment for your sins.

Thani-B
4th October 2009, 23:10
....... and you are excused, Thani-B ..........

Woop.:rockon:

sleemanj
4th October 2009, 23:43
Seems like a good system. One would assume that the car licence is the same or harder.

The point is, that it is giving appropriate training the emphasis it requires, and it's giving a structured progression where by the learners are actually supervised and advised rather than just "set loose".

Anything is better than the "here's your L, now go do it, try not to fuck up" we have here though. We don't do it in planes, we don't even do it in cars, but on a motorcycle, you're on your own as soon as you can drive round a car park without falling off.

Forest
5th October 2009, 13:51
So can we ride on our New Zealand licences over there? Or do we have to go through some of that process?

We can ride there on our NZ licenses as most countries have reciprocal licensing agreements i.e. we can drive there, and they can drive over here.

If you decide to live in France, then after a certain amount of time you will need to convert your NZ license into a French license.

FWIW the rule about the 100hp limitation only applies to bikes that are registered in France.

jaymzw
5th October 2009, 15:45
FWIW the rule about the 100hp limitation only applies to bikes that are registered in France.

LMAO So there are thousands of Busa's riding round the streets of France registered as German/Swiss/Spanish bikes?

Helldriver
28th October 2009, 20:42
Hi all,

I am German and payed around 2000 € for my car and bike license. That was around 12 years ago. Now days you are good if you pay only around 3000 € (approx. NZ$6000!) for booth licenses, maybe even more.
I guess the driving "education" is kind of different from the one here in NZ. You spend hours / days on the bike of your driving teacher which drives in the car behind you (on open road, city, autobahn etc.) and gives you shit via his microphone which is connected to a small speaker in your helmet. While you are doing this you definitely don't enjoy it too much but looking back I must say that it was quite good.

I personally must say that I rather have this kind of driving education then the one you can get here.

Ok I must admit, getting you full license here is easy and very very cheap!

I see a lot of learner here on the streets and their style of riding as well as the crash / death statistic of motorcyclists in NZ does not wonder me any more.

This is not a personal criticism on anyone, don't get me wrong.

But as someone before posted. Learning on your bike alone on the street after you could proof the riding skills on a parking ground for a couple of minutes is quite dangerous I personally think.
Some proper driving lessons would be a good idea I think, especially if you are not grown up on a farm and had the opportunity to learn how to handle a bike without any other traffic.

I figured that a good and save playground here in NZ are the track days and recommend them to everyone. It's not about racing it's more about knowing your own limits and the one of your bike.

I love riding in NZ and wish you all an accident free upcoming season!

Cheers

:scooter:

McJim
28th October 2009, 20:56
New Zealand in general has a far more "laissez faire" attitude to motor vehicles in general than other countries I have lived in.

Instead we have an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff (ACC) to pick up the pieces and we hope Darwin will do his work and produce better riders/drivers from those who actually reach breeding age despite starting to drive at the age of 15.

I am the result of the british driving test and although I d not consider myself a good driver I consider myself a safe driver...same goes for riding. I am not good but I am safe as I know my limits and ride well within them (not just within them like many others I could mention :Pokey:)

dipshit
28th October 2009, 20:58
Now days you are good if you pay only around 3000 € (approx. NZ$6000!) for booth licenses, maybe even more.


It always makes me laugh when I see people in here saying we should have higher standards for getting a licence... because you could almost guarantee that the moment we do - the very next day you would see a whole lot of people in here bitching and moaning about the cost of getting a licence.

Helldriver
28th October 2009, 21:06
It always makes me laugh when I see people in here saying we should have higher standards for getting a licence... because you could almost guarantee that the moment we do - the very next day you would see a whole lot of people in here bitching and moaning about the cost of getting a licence.

Obviously money is always the issue.

You pay for what you get, I would say...

:eek5:

DMCD
29th October 2009, 15:23
I wish it was that strict in NZ

Mikkel
29th October 2009, 16:07
Introducing a similar scheme in NZ would require a huge investment in order to put a system of instructors, driving/riding skill development facilities and examiners into place.

Considering the general level of wages in NZ I'd say we'd get away with a cost of approximately half of that seen in Europe - for a comparable level of instruction.

One problem with the scheme as we have in Denmark these days is that there is a required minimum number of instructor hours you have to do before you are allowed to sit your test. This is in the order of 25 hours for cars - at about $100 per hour - which is absolutely ridiculous seeing as quite a few people are able to upskill to the required level in less than 10 hours.

Having taken my car license in Denmark in 1999 and my motorcycle license in NZ 2007, I have to say that the biggest downfall of the NZ licensing system is that it fails completely on two counts: 1) Teaching people to take motoring seriously, and 2) how to operate a motorvehicle in a considerate AND efficient manner.

JMemonic
29th October 2009, 16:17
It always makes me laugh when I see people in here saying we should have higher standards for getting a licence... because you could almost guarantee that the moment we do - the very next day you would see a whole lot of people in here bitching and moaning about the cost of getting a licence.

I could not agree more, odd really and the biggest whiners would be those with the most to say on here about lack of training and skills etc.

JMemonic
29th October 2009, 16:30
Introducing a similar scheme in NZ would require a huge investment in order to put a system of instructors, driving/riding skill development facilities and examiners into place.

Not really the investment would come from those who actually wanted to be instructors as it does now, you would see a lag in the number of instructors to those wanting to learn for a while but if there is a liveable wage available then I am sure folks would look to train in the area. (eg myGSXF who is now a qualified)[/QUOTE]


Considering the general level of wages in NZ I'd say we'd get away with a cost of approximately half of that seen in Europe - for a comparable level of instruction.

One problem with the scheme as we have in Denmark these days is that there is a required minimum number of instructor hours you have to do before you are allowed to sit your test. This is in the order of 25 hours for cars - at about $100 per hour - which is absolutely ridiculous seeing as quite a few people are able to upskill to the required level in less than 10 hours.

One could hope but greed would say otherwise.



Having taken my car license in Denmark in 1999 and my motorcycle license in NZ 2007, I have to say that the biggest downfall of the NZ licensing system is that it fails completely on two counts: 1) Teaching people to take motoring seriously, and 2) how to operate a motor vehicle in a considerate AND efficient manner.

You've been here too long when you stop noticing that.