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NordieBoy
14th October 2009, 16:03
Wow. So my 37hp bike is going to cost nearly $1000 to reg for a year...

I was wondering what to spend all that spare cash on.

Ixion
14th October 2009, 16:04
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=109889

grusomhat
14th October 2009, 16:05
Why don't they have a lucky dip acc fee? When you buy your rego you get to reach in a box and pull out a number and that's the cost of your rego. Would make about as much sense as this price hike.

yungatart
14th October 2009, 16:08
I very much doubt that our family can afford to register one bike, let alone two if this happens :weep::crybaby:
I am all for protest..we need to make it big, extremely well organised with maximum impact and exposure...then we need to keep the momentum going.
I doubt that small regional protests will do anything..we just don't have the numbers in the provinces to make a statement!
Do it like the truckies did....mighty impressive and got the public on side too!

Indiana_Jones
14th October 2009, 16:08
Nick Smith best watch out for himself now.....

-Indy

Ixion
14th October 2009, 16:11
Is this an open meeting to all or a BRONZ closed committee meeting.



Open to all





I agree. We need an organisation like BRONZ to step up and provide a unified voice. An organisation that knows HOW to lobby a government and knows how to "play" politics. I know it's a lot about money, but lobby groups in the United States are extremely effective.
Money. And heads. Twenty people turn out to protest about something, they're ignored. 2000 turn out, that gets attention. And for many years only an infinetesimal percentage of bikers have been bothered to turn out. Other than to complain that someone else should do something. Twenty would have been good.

So, we'll see how many folk are prepared to put their money where their mouth is.

Signup forms for BRONZ here (http://www.bronz.org.nz)

Elysium
14th October 2009, 16:11
Nick Smith best watch out for himself now.....

-Indy

Yep. Gangs like bikes too.

ready4whatever
14th October 2009, 16:13
Its hard to protest on bikes. People need buses to get around, people need trucks to deliver all sorts of stuff. People other than bikers dont need bikes. If we all clog the motorways the cops are gonna have a field day like they did with the truckers. im not sure how to go about it

R6_kid
14th October 2009, 16:14
I think the rise is justified, but badly thought out in terms of payment breakdown.

Doing the bracketing by engine size doesn't make sense. It would be smarter to do it by power output, cross referenced against rider experience.

The difficulty then becomes how do you obtain accurate HP/torque/kW figures for all the different models, and also take into account any modifications that have been done that improve safety/power etc... Also how do you measure experience? Is there a reliable way to measure and individuals cost to ACC before an accident happens?

It would cost too much to work out the costing on a case by case basis so that is out of the question.

How about getting an ACC rebate? You haven't made a claim in the last X years so you can get a XX% rebate on your payments - force people to ride safer and pay for their own accidents???

Pixie
14th October 2009, 16:15
I'd like to send a friendly email to ACC but what grounds do I have to what they have proposed?

"Oh, please don't increase the levies, motorcycles are cool as, bro!

Cheers"

Seriously, what am I to write that would have any impact?

Time to contact the motorbike industry & MPs that use motorbikes.

Don't contact ACC - their ultimate plan is to get bikes off the road

Gubb
14th October 2009, 16:16
Signup forms for BRONZ here (http://www.bronz.co.nz)
How long have you been marketing yourself as Bro NZ Quality Street wear?

Maybe that's why new members are scarce.

rosie631
14th October 2009, 16:17
Well, off to get an RS125 and kit it out with a turbo I suppose.

I'm going to check whether my insurance will cover if my rego isn't current, but the WOF is up to date.

Me too. Insurance is the only reason I pay the fucking thing. Don't actually see why being registered or not should affect insurance. Can understand WOF.

dipshit
14th October 2009, 16:17
Guys, we really do need to fight this - especially as most bike accidents are caused by cages in the first place...

Motorcyclists that believe this BRONZ bullshit and keep falling off the roads every weekend are a big part of the reason why we are seeing huge ACC increases.

Reckless
14th October 2009, 16:17
Signup forms for BRONZ here (http://www.bronz.co.nz)

That looked like a t shirt shop?? Didn't see any biker organization stuff??

James Deuce
14th October 2009, 16:17
I think the rise is justified, but badly thought out in terms of payment breakdown.

Doing the bracketing by engine size doesn't make sense. It would be smarter to do it by power output, cross referenced against rider experience.

The difficulty then becomes how do you obtain accurate HP/torque/kW figures for all the different models, and also take into account any modifications that have been done that improve safety/power etc... Also how do you measure experience? Is there a reliable way to measure and individuals cost to ACC before an accident happens?

It would cost too much to work out the costing on a case by case basis so that is out of the question.

How about getting an ACC rebate? You haven't made a claim in the last X years so you can get a XX% rebate on your payments - force people to ride safer and pay for their own accidents???

Write your submission chap.

ital916
14th October 2009, 16:19
Open to all



Money. And heads. Twenty people turn out to protest about something, they're ignored. 2000 turn out, that gets attention. And for many years only an infinetesimal percentage of bikers have been bothered to turn out. Other than to complain that someone else should do something. Twenty would have been good.

So, we'll see how many folk are prepared to put their money where their mouth is.

Signup forms for BRONZ here (http://www.bronz.co.nz)

If we are protesting, best make a weekend out of it, I reckon. Instead of three protests nationwide, make it one protest in the capital with as many bikes as possible. Thousands of bikers outside parliment will get their attention.

Cash on the night is accepted for membership?

Edit: that link goes to a clothing store.

ckai
14th October 2009, 16:20
How long have you been marketing yourself as Bro NZ Quality Street wear?

Maybe that's why new members are scarce.


That looked like a t shirt shop?? Didn't see any biker organization stuff??

And here's me thinking their shirts were quite cool!

chasio
14th October 2009, 16:20
I have had the same thought process myself its fair to say, but I have come to the view that this proposed increase is iniquitous, and I do intend to exercise my demoratic rights in relation to it.

My thought process is this:

The ACC system was introduced in 1974 to prevent the lottery that was personal injury litigation. For example I am knocked off my motorbike by my business partner: his fault, I get heaps of compensation from him or his insurers because of the fact he has pots of money. But compare the result with I am knocked off my bike by our office junior. She has no money, no insurance, I get nothing, even though I have the same legal rights against both parties.

ACC said, "Hey, the social contract is this: You give up the right to sue, and we (the nanny state to use a phrase popular a year ago) will look after you, on a no fault basis. Everyone pays a bit, and we all get looked after. Its marvellous".

And so it was.

But then in the '80's there were some pretty hardheaded attempts from people to get rid of this system. "Its anachronistic, it unfairly makes people pay who've never had a claim, I do only X but you do Y and so you should pay more."

And thats the real problem. What we now have is the expression of that mindset: One of the smallest groups of individuals by number, who by the nature of their activity, and the fact that pretty much any claim they make will be major are being targeted to pay "their "fair" share".

It is almost a complete abrogation from that principle that we all pay a bit and we all get looked after to one of "user pays".

And that, in my view, is why its so very wrong.

Excellent point. Sadly I fear it is too complicated to get the wider public on board with it.

Surely if the principle is being abandoned, the sensible thing to do is to scrap ACC altogether and let the insurance industry sort out who should pay and how much? They are really quite good at that sort of thing, unlike the ACC.

Of course without ACC we won't have a health system quite as all encompassing, but I expect they won't let so many uninsured idiots die that people are put off.

rosie631
14th October 2009, 16:21
Submissions closed October 2nd.

Yep and someone had a thread on here with a link so we could all make submissions. Think it was peasea?? I put mine in. Did you???

Pixie
14th October 2009, 16:21
Saw an article recently about how someone in NZ hurts themselves every 48 seconds doing jobs around the house, at a cost 641mil in ACC just last year.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10595342

Find out who this cunt is and kill him

ready4whatever
14th October 2009, 16:24
Everyone with a Harley Davidson with open pipes roll around parliment open throttle. If that doesnt get attention nothing will

Brian d marge
14th October 2009, 16:24
Yep and someone had a thread on here with a link so we could all make submissions. Think it was peasea?? I put mine in. Did you???

Yes

and i don't even live there

Stephen

PirateJafa
14th October 2009, 16:25
I must be broken - I don't feel anything much about it at all. Perhaps a tad annoyed. Not really enough emotion to goad me into action.

Maybe (perhaps) [however] {although} we're looking at it all wrong? We're costing us HEAPS for bike crash injuries, and someone has to pay for it. Aren't WE someone? And aren't WE the someones involved? Shouldn't we pay for ourselves?

If ACC gave me the option to tell them to go fuck themselves, I would happily do so. I'd insure myself privately, and then I'd be able to use ALL my road vehicles on the road.

As it is, it looks like my car, my RD350 and my A80 are all going to be going on permanent hold, and I'll be left with just the mintviffer for the road.

You might be happy with this, as you only have one motorbike. But those of us with more than one, it's a fucking shambles. I'd be looking at nearly two grand a year to register my road vehicles alone. And then there's WOFs etc on top of that. And pies.

Mikkel
14th October 2009, 16:25
What's also stupid is how they are grouping the bikes to charge rego.
A GSXR600 would pay the $500 levy and a SV650 would pay $750.
How does that make any sense?

That's easy to explain... it doesn't! Make sense that is...

Another thing I fail to see is how on earth they justify that the ACC levy is higher for a motorcycle than it is for a car. After all, a car can carry 4+ passengers and has a much larger potential for collateral damage.
Very rare to hear about drunk motorcyclists who accidentally crashed into a MPV and killed a 6 person family.


Doing the bracketing by engine size doesn't make sense. It would be smarter to do it by power output, cross referenced against rider experience.

The difficulty then becomes how do you obtain accurate HP/torque/kW figures for all the different models, and also take into account any modifications that have been done that improve safety/power etc... Also how do you measure experience? Is there a reliable way to measure and individuals cost to ACC before an accident happens?

It would cost too much to work out the costing on a case by case basis so that is out of the question.

How about getting an ACC rebate? You haven't made a claim in the last X years so you can get a XX% rebate on your payments - force people to ride safer and pay for their own accidents???

Spoken like a true Kiwi. Fucking hell, don't you think that there is enough bureaucrazy (sic) in this country already? How about we factor in what tyres you use on your bike as well. And let's not forget to include stuff like what you had for breakfast - after all extreme flatulence can be a considerable distraction.

Either we have a socialist state or we don't have a socialist state. This amalgam of unnecessary bureaucrazy, political correctness bullshit and pretend socialistic schemes is not working.

Indiana_Jones
14th October 2009, 16:28
I got my motorcycle jacket, but I'm walking all the time.

.....takes on a whole new meaning now

-Indy

NighthawkNZ
14th October 2009, 16:29
I think Ixion meant www.bronz.org.nz (http://www.bronz.org.nz/)

Ixion
14th October 2009, 16:30
So. I gather that people are a tad peeved by the proposal.

But, if it be true that bikes are costing so much, how is it unfair for ACC to charge us that much?

If we can't provide some answers to that question, we won't get far.

So, who has any ideas on why we shouldn't pay what they claim we owe?

There are a few possibilities

1. I personally have never been convinced that off road injuries don't end up included in the claims attributed against the licence levy. Off road should of course be regarded as a sport , like rugby.

2. read this bit carefully


In 2008/09 ACC paid more than $62 million for motorcycle riders but collected only $12.3 million in levies from them.
...
The proposed legislative change to extend the full funding date to 2019 would reduce the effect of residual claims on motor vehicle levies by $100,’ said Mr Judge. ‘However, whether or not this translates into an equivalent reduction in those levies will depend on how best to fund the account fully over the next 10 years. This is something the Board must determine


What this means (I think) is important to motorcyclists. Prior to 1999, ACC operated on a pay as you go basis. Money was collected every year to pay the cliams costs for that year. In 199 they changed to fully funded. That means a huge pile of money is being set aside each year , so that if you are injured now, there is enough money put into an account immediately to pay all the costs your injury is likely to accrue, for the rest of your life.

The problem with this, is that in 1999 there were a lot of people (all sorts, not just motorcyclists) , who had been injured BEFORE 1999. But no money had been set aside to pay for the future cost of those injuries. (the "residual claims" )

So, each year the ACC collect some money from each levy payer to add to the pool, to retrospectively fund those old injuries. They were previously going to try to have all the old claims funded by 2012, Now the government has moved that to 2019. So the amount they need to collect each year is less.

For car drivers, it's no big deal. there are a lot more car drivers and cars now than in , say, 1985. So it's not a big sum.

But for bikes, the picture is different. In the 80s and early 90s there were a HELL of a lot more bikes on the road than now. And, a lot more injuries and deaths. A lot of which are still being paid for. But, there are a lot fewer bikes now than then. So the amount per bike is much higher

What the quote above says , I think, is that the government has said that ACC can take till 2019 to fully fund the 'tail'. But ACC are NOT including that in their calculations . If they did, the OVERALL reduction would be $100 per vehicle . But, for bikes , much more. Of course, that means that NETX year , they'll collect far more than they need.

3. The employee account has a fixed cap on the earners levy. You can't be levied more than a certain sum (about $1000 I think). This is because the payout on ERC is also capped. But there is no cap on vehicle levies. Even though your ERC will be capped. A good argument could be made that the TOTAl payable by any individual should be capped . Only helps those with multiple vehicles of course.

4. A good argument can be made on an equitable basis that ACC ought not to introduce a change of such magbnitude in one hit. The extra payable per year will be many thousands of dollars for some people. Bringing that in in one hit could be argued to be unfair

Give me some more people. We need ammunition.

Elysium
14th October 2009, 16:31
Burt Monro would be shaking his head.

awayatc
14th October 2009, 16:31
Be easier to go officialy live sumwere else and just come visiting here.......
still covered by acc, and nothing to pay.....
not even fines.......

Ixion
14th October 2009, 16:31
I think Ixion meant www.bronz.org.nz (http://www.bronz.org.nz/)

Did I? Yes, I did. Fixed.

Indiana_Jones
14th October 2009, 16:32
So. I gather that people are a tad peeved by the proposal.

But, if it be true that bikes are costing so much, how is it unfair for ACC to charge us that much?

What if I said more Maori's were on ACC

Or more faggots were on ACC

and then I demanded they pay more.

It'd be called a racist and homophobe.

But hey it's ok to pick on some minorities like motorcyclists and gun owners.

-Indy

Sheba
14th October 2009, 16:32
Geez, this news tampers the excitement of newbies like me working to get a license and first bike. Makes me seriously reconsider the decision. Or just ride without rego like someone suggested and pay the fine if caught.

zeocen
14th October 2009, 16:32
I personally haven't read further than the first page, but if there is going to be a mass stand off somewhere, I'll be bringing my wife-raping-drug-dealing-p-addicted Hornet 919 to the party, lord knows a fucking Hornet needs $750 to keep it's MASSIVE 240kmph top speed limit at bay .... I guess the saving I've been doing for a second bike is going to go for levies now.

EXCDirt
14th October 2009, 16:35
Just put your rego on hold and take the heat ($) of the tickets...... Until they put that shit up. 3 tickets for no rego equals years rego. (I know the insurance argument)
Cnuts!

AllanB
14th October 2009, 16:37
What if I said more Maori's were on ACC

Or more faggots were on ACC

and then I demanded they pay more.

It'd be called a racist and homophobe.

But hey it's ok to pick on some minorities like motorcyclists and gun owners.

-Indy

Imagine how much you'd have to pay if you were a Maori, homo, motorcycle rider - the Government would own your arse (so to speak).

AllanB
14th October 2009, 16:40
Governments are sneaky - they can release statements like say Motorcycle rego will go up to $800 pa. Then months later say well we reviewed all the letters and we will only increase it to $550 - the motorcycle community collectively pat themselves on the back and make numerous posts on KB stating how 'we got the bastards' then happily shell out the $ for rego.

ps I blame Helen Clark.......

rogson
14th October 2009, 16:40
I have a number of bikes - but I can only ride one at a time. I'd be comfortable paying more personal injury insurance - but why should I pay it on all of my bikes - after-all its me not my bikes that is being insured.

Also, if it is going to be user pays I expect motorcyclists will now get a discount on petrol and the non-ACC part of the rego and will pay lower income taxes - after-all we don't need 6 lane motorways, etc to drive on.

duckonin
14th October 2009, 16:41
ACC is this National Governments big cash COW, and yep Ladies and Gentlemen Keys Nat party is going to milk us dry..ACC is the year 2010 new tax take..

ACC had big investments that have turned to shit, or devalued since the USA went down for trillions, Keys told his henchmen to sell the sad story to the NZ public "ACC is broke", the worst part is the public believe it, for "Keys has spoken"...

AllanB
14th October 2009, 16:42
II'll be bringing my wife-raping-drug-dealing-p-addicted Hornet 919 to the party.


I got that fixed under warranty on my Hornet, now it only gives the occasional blow-job and has a bad coffee habit.

Trudes
14th October 2009, 16:43
I haven't been to a bike rally yet, can we have one on the Parliament lawn? Have a bon fire, do some stunts, wet t shirt comp, etc etc and every 10 mins we all start up our bikes and rev the snot out if them and then go back to our fire and beers. Have tent, will travel and camp. It'll be fun!!!

Bonez
14th October 2009, 16:43
How many KBers are sucking the ACC cow, go racing and are quite capable of doing a 40 hour week at work?

McJim
14th October 2009, 16:43
Can they increase the levies by 3 times on modified cars? They crash Waaaay more often then bikes.

Indiana_Jones
14th October 2009, 16:43
I think rule 303 needs to be applied to Nick smith

-Indy

phred
14th October 2009, 16:44
Right, if nobody else will, I'll organise a fucking Hikoi down to Parliament against this bullshit.

Fuck upcoming exams, this is pricing us off the road, and in doing so is impinging upon my rights. I'm not going to fucking stand for it.

Edit: The cunts are meant to be encouraging the use of more environmentally friendly transport for fuck's sake.

SO when and where's the protest then? Count me in. I finally get a bigger bike and now I can't afford to run the bastard thing. I haven't yet heard of any insurance scheme that bloody works Doesn't matter whether it's tarted up as superannuation or ACC or whatever the premiums get out of control and you try and get the pay out you expected.....Rastus where's ma gun ah needs ta shoot me some federalis.

Elysium
14th October 2009, 16:45
I haven't been to a bike rally yet, can we have one on the Parliament lawn? Have a bon fire, do some stunts, wet t shirt comp, etc etc and every 10 mins we all start up our bikes and rev the snot out if them and then go back to our fire and beers. Have tent, will travel and camp. It'll be fun!!!
If you want stunts, better give the Mormon boys a call.

Pixie
14th October 2009, 16:45
Remember these rises are proposal by ACC. One thing we can do is to make submissions to ACC (see elsewhere in this thread). That is the bureaucratic portion. The final decision is however a political one.

ACC will make submissions to the Minister, the Hon Dr Nick Smith. Aside from making a submission it is also important for each one of us to email Dr Smith:

(N.Smith@ministers.govt.nz
and also for those of you in his electorate, nick@nick4nelson.co.nz)

I have already done so and if its helpful here's a template that you can adapt (I have multiple bikes):



"I read today reports regarding changes to ACC, in particular the increases in ACC levy for motorcycles. For myself, owner of [insert number or type of bike with engine size, e.g., "two motorcycles both over 600cc"], the increase[s] amount[s] to $493.08 [per motorcycle, or a total of $986.16 per annum to owners of two over 600cc: adjust as required]. This for a person that has private vehicle insurance and no previous ACC claims and who uses motorcycles for leisure [adjust for your situation].




I am sure that some motorcycle riders are at a high risk of accident; the appropriate method to ensure that they pay their fair share is to target by demographic rather than use a blunt tool such as engine capacity. I also note that there is no levy whatsoever proposed for casual players of sports such as rugby, despite their high risk of accident. Nor is there any concrete proposal to limit the increases you propose I should bear by reference to my driving or claim record.




I am disappointed at this proposal and write to advise you and your colleagues that if this comes to pass the National Party loses my vote in perpetuity. I am simply appalled that you feel I should pay [adjust as required (in my case "close to an extra one thousand")] dollars per annum for nothing.


I shall also encourage others to take the same stance; the sort of people that can afford large capacity motorcycles also being within the demographic that traditionally supports your party."

Add any other points you want to make. I suggest keeping it civil. You will get an autobot reply. Don't expect a personal reply - the aim here is to impress with sheer numbers, so encourage others to email as well. Those in the trade should also email their local MP and probably also the PM, pointing out the threat to business from this move.
How about this email:
Dear Dr Smith
Fuck ACC.Fuck it in the arse with a big rubber dick.
Then break it off and beat it to death with the broken end

sunhuntin
14th October 2009, 16:46
well, im all up for a protest ride. just name the time and the date and i will skip work for a day or two to attend.

however, if that doesnt work and the fees still go up, ill be saying goodbye to miss texas jane and putting her back in the showroom. which will be like cutting an arm or leg off. :weep:

zahria
14th October 2009, 16:46
Right, if nobody else will, I'll organise a fucking Hikoi down to Parliament against this bullshit.

Fuck upcoming exams, this is pricing us off the road, and in doing so is impinging upon my rights. I'm not going to fucking stand for it.

Edit: The cunts are meant to be encouraging the use of more environmentally friendly transport for fuck's sake.

I agree. I'll be there.

rosie631
14th October 2009, 16:47
I haven't been to a bike rally yet, can we have one on the Parliament lawn? Have a bon fire, do some stunts, wet t shirt comp, etc etc and every 10 mins we all start up our bikes and rev the snot out if them and then go back to our fire and beers. Have tent, will travel and camp. It'll be fun!!!

I'll be there. One big rally outside parliament instead of small regional protests. Central, so we can ALL get there.

Indiana_Jones
14th October 2009, 16:48
Only one thing the govt will listen to....


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-Indy

AllanB
14th October 2009, 16:48
If you want stunts, better give the Mormon boys a call.

It's Fucking Carvers fault - there was no mention of this before he did that bridge stunt ..........

mrchips
14th October 2009, 16:50
i just got my latest bike rego due & i can't believe it $382 /yr!
+
Petrol driven car/van only goes up to 4000 cc @ $418.44/yr... what the hell happens if you've got more than 4000cc ?????

God I'm spewing.

TOTO
14th October 2009, 16:51
Not according to this site: http://www.acc.co.nz/for-business/levy-consultation/consultation-process/levy-consultation-2010-2011/index.htm

Submit away boys & girls!!

Submition sent.

Indiana_Jones
14th October 2009, 16:51
Don't just have a rally for a few hours outside.

Camp outside.

People take turns etc.

Make it like Mad Max 2, go all night and day with the bikes going etc

-Indy

tri boy
14th October 2009, 16:52
Govt's can legislate whatever they want.
I'll either abide or not.
My choice.
Fuckem
When did riding become so apathetic that we(riders) gave a fuck about a pollie pissing?
Bring it on ACC!

Katman
14th October 2009, 16:52
Any protest action has to be impeccably organised and conducted with dignity and, dare I say it, with a degree of humility.

Motorcyclists need to accept that we have largely brought this shit upon ourselves.

It's time to show the general public and the government that we're not just a bunch of irresponsible fuckwits.

firefighter
14th October 2009, 16:52
Fuck. It's now more expensive to run my bike than to use a comfortably sized car to get to and from work.

I may have to down grade.

I'm one of those in the category that ca'nt afford an increase like that......unless they lower my rates of course!

Makes me feel like having an accident to get my moneys worth......a pretty immature statement but I think you get my drift.

Fuck me now i'm going to claim every little bit of ACC entitlement that comes along. Fuck em'.

SPman
14th October 2009, 16:53
The prciks before National should never allowed ACC to go into $4 bill def.


You really haven't got a clue, have you!

Brian d marge
14th October 2009, 16:53
Just found out that my Enfield is going up by $ 36 dollars

ohhhh the pain

Stephen

Brian d marge
14th October 2009, 16:55
ACC sets the levy rates each year to provide enough funds to cover the lifetime costs of injuries
that will occur during the upcoming year, and ongoing costs of injuries that happened before 1 July
1999.
You have the opportunity to have a say on the proposed rates for the coming year by making a
submission during our consultation process. Legislation requires us to consult levy payers about any
changes we want to make to rates and regulations before we take our recommendations to the
Minister for ACC.
The consultation process has four stages:
1. We publish the proposed rates in the consultation documents
2. You have four weeks in which to make a submission on our proposal (this year 14 October to 10
November)
3. We consider everyone’s feedback and finalise our recommendations on the rates
4. We submit our recommendations to the Minister for ACC.
The Minister considers ACC’s recommendations and then makes his recommendations to Cabinet on
what the final rates should be. Once Cabinet agrees on final rates, levy regulations are passed for
the new levy year.

Stephen

candor
14th October 2009, 16:56
Its not really about who caused the crashes. They want bikes off the road as the fastest way to reduce the death toll to levels not outrageous - in order that they can call our road safety policy experiment a success - its due for export to all second and 3rd world countries under a charge led by the new global org Road Pol, just this year set up by the world bank in Welly - with dear Rob Robinson as Master of Ceremonies. You are all just collateral damage to the unbridled ambitions of Rob. Cars are the main ACC drain but mcs can achieve a quick n easy toll trim after they drop the alcohol limit. So Rob is the robber. He has a dream.

It was the resource allocation model quota experiment he implemented that blew out the road crash account causing this crisis - lame him, Annette King, and Tony Bliss (world bank transport boss who once ran LTSA to facilitate this trial).

You would be far better to get behind the reqiest of several major motoring groups for a royal comm of inquiry to road safety - to be filed next week. It should see big egg on Hellens face as a bonus.

dipshit
14th October 2009, 16:56
I haven't been to a bike rally yet, can we have one on the Parliament lawn? Have a bon fire, do some stunts, wet t shirt comp, etc etc and every 10 mins we all start up our bikes and rev the snot out if them and then go back to our fire and beers. Have tent, will travel and camp. It'll be fun!!!


And with the usual half a dozen motorcycle crashes to and from the rally too?

Cool... that will show them!

Oakie
14th October 2009, 16:58
So on the way home I came across an accident scene ... black sportsbike which I won't describe further. Lane blocked, police, first response unit and ambulance there working on the guy and all of a sudden $700 didn't seem that much. If he survives he'll use up way more than $700 from ACC coffers. Different perspective.

sunhuntin
14th October 2009, 16:59
Makes me feel like having an accident to get my moneys worth......a pretty immature statement but I think you get my drift.


fucken a. thats the reason i use my right to ride in whatever the fuck i like. if i want to ride in a tshirt and shorts, then i damn well will.

Bonez
14th October 2009, 17:01
And with the usual half a dozen motorcycle crashes to and from the rally too?

Cool... that will show them!Let's not forget the broken limbs for stunts gone wrong. Thank goodness for ACC!

Molly
14th October 2009, 17:01
So when are we having a co-ordinated NI and SI protest ride?

MadDuck
14th October 2009, 17:02
wet t shirt comp

THAT will get their attention I bet!

ready4whatever
14th October 2009, 17:02
The government does hate motorcyclists. Clayton Weatherston is getting treated better than this.

Brian d marge
14th October 2009, 17:02
The five guiding principles proposed by Woodhouse and
his fellow Commissioners encapsulated the above concerns
and represented a socialised response to accident and
injury. Those principles are:
• community responsibility
• comprehensive entitlement
• complete rehabilitation
• real compensation; and
• administrative efficiency.


From the committee that set up ACC

Stephen

squip
14th October 2009, 17:03
Absolutely furious - I'll protest it!

SPman
14th October 2009, 17:05
Does giving 2 fingers to ACC and their "residual levies" before fucking off to Australia sound drastic and attention seeking enough?
Hmmm..... rego for FZ1 - 12 mths $222.45 - includes $126,32 for "third party" - which is the injury component, $56.60 for rego plus sundry stamp duties and GST (10%) doesn't seem so bad after all..

Ender EnZed
14th October 2009, 17:06
$745

That's fucking insane.

Big Zappa
14th October 2009, 17:07
come ooooon you all voted national in.

hahahahaha

ukusa
14th October 2009, 17:07
$745

That's fucking insane.

fuck the fucken fuckers.....needs mass protest!

SMOKEU
14th October 2009, 17:07
Fuck this, let's start a riot. I bet if a whole lot of gang members cruised the streets on their Harleys and wore their patches intimidating the public in protest, that will get the governments attention more than a few people doing wheelies on sports bikes.

StoneY
14th October 2009, 17:07
Im looking aty Aussie now

Fuck this shithole, fuckin National Govt, fuck everyone that voted National

scumdog
14th October 2009, 17:08
Over the price of three no-rego tickets, you do the maths, get caught three or less times? - you are ahead!:clap:.

" how lucky do you feel, punk?"

Mandy
14th October 2009, 17:08
Man I'm a poor student, how do they expect me to pay for all this?

I'll have to say bye-bye to my bike :crybaby:

Another good reason to move to Australia...

scracha
14th October 2009, 17:09
Motorcyclists need to accept that we have largely brought this shit upon ourselves.


Katman, whilst my brain agrees with me, for once my fingers just can't help but type

FUCK OFF

There's a time and a place and this has all wound us up enough.



Wonder if this will violate some Treaty rights?

grusomhat
14th October 2009, 17:09
FFS, for the sake of a National News broadcast about ACC, that guy on the Ducati could have at least wore gloves! (TV3 News)

dman
14th October 2009, 17:09
sucks the increase is so big for a 250cc (or even a mere 150cc)

why cut it off at 125cc? surely it would have made simple sense to have matched it up with the learner licence max of 250cc

Winston001
14th October 2009, 17:10
Just have to join in -


THE BASTARDS




even if my wife who is currently looking after me recovering from an accident seems to think its fair enough........Hrrumph!! :Oi:

grusomhat
14th October 2009, 17:11
Over the price of three no-rego tickets, you do the maths, get caught three or less times? - you are ahead!:clap:.

" how lucky do you feel, punk?"

How often do plates get randomly checked for stuff when cops are sitting behind them?

ie, will I get caught randomly, or would it mostly be if you get pulled over?

Voltaire
14th October 2009, 17:11
Im looking aty Aussie now

Fuck this shithole, fuckin National Govt, fuck everyone that voted National

When I lived in Sydney 20 years ago I'm sure my Ducati was $350.00 rego and compulsory third party...and the Kombi was $400.00...on $14.00 an hour that was a lot.

Bonez
14th October 2009, 17:11
Fuck this, let's start a riot. I bet if a whole lot of gang members cruised the streets on their Harleys and wore their patches intimidating the public in protest, that will get the governments attention more than a few people doing wheelies on sports bikes.Only if they wear tassles.

nighthawk
14th October 2009, 17:13
$745

That's fucking insane.

Im with you,its just another case of lets pick on the small guy and hope he's gonna role over ...... like HELL

zeocen
14th October 2009, 17:13
The whole capacity thing just grinds my gears, what about the cruiser scene? Some of them those capacities just to move! It's not always about speed :/

scumdog
14th October 2009, 17:13
How often do plates get randomly checked for stuff when cops are sitting behind them?

ie, will I get caught randomly, or would it mostly be if you get pulled over?

The cops would probably do more checks at random from now on, so anytime...

glanvillejon
14th October 2009, 17:13
I would just not register my bike however, no rego or warrant, NO INSURANCE. Fucking wankers they can suck my fucking balls, im so fucking angry with those bastards. Dr Smith if you see a motorcyclist coming your way I would walk the other way or you will get pissed on! Any ideas how we can ENCOURAGE them to re think?? I heard an idea of getting every bike in the country to ride to Wellington early, take up every car park in the city - as we are entitled - and make life just a wee bit harder for them.

What about the wankers that pull out in front of us?? or the stupid fucking campers that think they can drive on the wrong side of the road?? Of course if a camper hits a bike it is going to be expensive to rehablitate, thats if the biker is not dead.

Excuse the french, I'm just angry, as will most of the rest of you! I don't give a shit how they justify it with their statistics, its bull shit.

Maha
14th October 2009, 17:15
Yea, lets just have our own quiet little protest and make sure we don't piss anyone off. I suggest a group ride through Eketahuna at midnight or so, when no one will notice.

Get real. If you want to get somewhere you have to PISS PEOPLE OFF.

Loan voice of dissagreement...:Pokey:
I have been on a number of protest rides and its never about pissing people off.....ever.
Its about getting the message across, the days of classroom sit-ins has long gone, we are adults aren't we?

Car owners (yes I am one also) are effected, motorbikes are insanely effected. I am up for about $1300+ per year (just with bikes) when all this kicks in and Im surely pissed off about that fact.

Who said anything about being quiet? did you not read what I said?
1000-1200 bikes will make alot of noise without pissing anyone off.

Pixie
14th October 2009, 17:16
So. I gather that people are a tad peeved by the proposal.

But, if it be true that bikes are costing so much, how is it unfair for ACC to charge us that much?

If we can't provide some answers to that question, we won't get far.

So, who has any ideas on why we shouldn't pay what they claim we owe?

There are a few possibilities

1. I personally have never been convinced that off road injuries don't end up included in the claims attributed against the licence levy. Off road should of course be regarded as a sport , like rugby.

2. read this bit carefully


What this means (I think) is important to motorcyclists. Prior to 1999, ACC operated on a pay as you go basis. Money was collected every year to pay the cliams costs for that year. In 199 they changed to fully funded. That means a huge pile of money is being set aside each year , so that if you are injured now, there is enough money put into an account immediately to pay all the costs your injury is likely to accrue, for the rest of your life.

The problem with this, is that in 1999 there were a lot of people (all sorts, not just motorcyclists) , who had been injured BEFORE 1999. But no money had been set aside to pay for the future cost of those injuries. (the "residual claims" )

So, each year the ACC collect some money from each levy payer to add to the pool, to retrospectively fund those old injuries. They were previously going to try to have all the old claims funded by 2012, Now the government has moved that to 2019. So the amount they need to collect each year is less.

For car drivers, it's no big deal. there are a lot more car drivers and cars now than in , say, 1985. So it's not a big sum.

But for bikes, the picture is different. In the 80s and early 90s there were a HELL of a lot more bikes on the road than now. And, a lot more injuries and deaths. A lot of which are still being paid for. But, there are a lot fewer bikes now than then. So the amount per bike is much higher

What the quote above says , I think, is that the government has said that ACC can take till 2019 to fully fund the 'tail'. But ACC are NOT including that in their calculations . If they did, the OVERALL reduction would be $100 per vehicle . But, for bikes , much more. Of course, that means that NETX year , they'll collect far more than they need.

3. The employee account has a fixed cap on the earners levy. You can't be levied more than a certain sum (about $1000 I think). This is because the payout on ERC is also capped. But there is no cap on vehicle levies. Even though your ERC will be capped. A good argument could be made that the TOTAl payable by any individual should be capped . Only helps those with multiple vehicles of course.

4. A good argument can be made on an equitable basis that ACC ought not to introduce a change of such magbnitude in one hit. The extra payable per year will be many thousands of dollars for some people. Bringing that in in one hit could be argued to be unfair

Give me some more people. We need ammunition.
How about:If the levy rises that much we won't register our bikes.ACC gets nothing.
Sorry,I forgot,we are kiwis,with the bending over and spreading thing etc.

Katman
14th October 2009, 17:16
Katman, whilst my brain agrees with me, for once my fingers just can't help but type

FUCK OFF

There's a time and a place and this has all wound us up enough.


Perhaps you should pull your head out of your fucking arse.

I said it about the cheesecutter campaign and the same applies here - until motorcyclists are seen to be accepting of the fact that we have created a lot of the woes that befall us there is no hope of us getting any process reversed.

chrispy121
14th October 2009, 17:16
so this is where this goes wrong
does any one have the stats on how many scooters are involved in Accidents vs learners on 250 and below then big bikes?

this would be interesting as most scooter riders dont wear proper gear and therefore have more injuries.

if there are more accidents on scooters and claims they should pay more and even this out

Victoria in Australia is investigating changes in their acc the lees gear you wear the less they pay that makes sense to me.

ZephyrMark2
14th October 2009, 17:17
Just a thought..

But what if motorcyclists, en masse, refuse to pay it?

I suppose the obvious is that they wouldn't cover any motorcycle accidents.. but 'power in the people' man!

The french govt tried to ban smoking in pubs, in france (go figure), the people ignored the legislation.. eventually the govt had to accept that the legislation wasn't going to work.

Zephyr

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 17:18
If we want groups to "pay their own way" then scrap it all together and PAY YOUR OWN WAY? Or does my logic not follow theirs?
TAX FAT PEOPLE, they're eating up health dollars.
TAX cigarettes and ALCOHOL they are FAR in the red when it comes to "PAY YOUR OWN WAY"
My PRIVATE insurance excess is less than a motorcycle rego.
How much will they be in deficit if we ALL BOYCOT regos?

James Deuce
14th October 2009, 17:18
so this is where this goes wrong
does any one have the stats on how many scooters are involved in Accidents vs learners on 250 and below then big bikes?

this would be interesting as most scooter riders dont wear proper gear and therefore have more injuries.

if there are more accidents on scooters and claims they should pay more and even this out


I posted the stats a few pages back.

vindy500
14th October 2009, 17:19
Just a thought..

But what if motorcyclists, en masse, refuse to pay it?

I suppose the obvious is that they wouldn't cover any motorcycle accidents.. but 'power in the people' man!

The french govt tried to ban smoking in pubs, in france (go figure), the people ignored the legislation.. eventually the govt had to accept that the legislation wasn't going to work.

Zephyr

the problem is kiwis are pussies and will just fall into line

jtzzr
14th October 2009, 17:20
So how do we stop these fuckers fucking us over, any real suggestions?

glanvillejon
14th October 2009, 17:20
Perhaps you should pull your fucking head out of your arse.

I said it about the cheesecutter campaign and the same applies here - until motorcyclists are seen to be accepting of the fact that we have created a lot of the woes that befall us there is no hope of us getting any process reversed.
watever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Oi::Oi:

scracha
14th October 2009, 17:21
I posted the stats a few pages back.

Stats are good. Be good to collect stats on how ACC collate motorcycle accidents. I'm sure plenty farm workers fall off quad bikes, the nursey ticks the "motorcycle accident tick box" and then the farm worker claims ACC, rehab etc for the next 10 years.

dieseldave
14th October 2009, 17:21
For Nick Smith this is a double edged weapon.

1.Address an anomaly 'bikers have more accidents and drain the ACC fund'

2. 'Sort out the "organised criminals*" who happen to generally ride bikes -big capacity bikes'

*heard this on the radio today..

chrispy121
14th October 2009, 17:21
also if a motorcycle goes off the road and the accident is caused by unmarked road works can we now sue the council for our acc levie as they might have caused the accident to begin with.


there are a lot of arguments but I agree with some on here we need to arrange a protest ride and everone needs to come together and fight this.

jtzzr
14th October 2009, 17:22
the problem is kiwis are pussies and will just fall into line

Ya reckon , I don`t think so

Lias
14th October 2009, 17:22
I havnt been this ragingly angry in years..

Right now pretty much all I can think about is maiming politicians and ACC employees.

Lets see the fuckers try and take my money when we cut their fucking fingers off.

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 17:22
watever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :Oi::Oi:

I reckon mate, it's only when it's a minority they THINK they can pick on do they do it. TAX MAORI WOMEN more because they smoke more.
Oh wait. that's discrimination.
TAX MOTORCYCLISTS MORE.... oh wait.... that's..... what's that again?

Brian d marge
14th October 2009, 17:22
You do realize that the govt isn't expecting this amount to actually happen

the have an agenda , they will be followed through , if not by this government , but by the next

if you are lucky this year ACC will go up by say half .... but it will happen

Stephen

scracha
14th October 2009, 17:22
The cops would probably do more checks at random from now on, so anytime...

So thus actively target a particular road user group....isn't that illegal?

Kiwi Graham
14th October 2009, 17:22
submission sent
http://www.acc.co.nz/for-business/levy-consultation/consultation-process/levy-consultation-2010-2011/index.htm

Still cant belive they can shit on a a whole industry and a minority population like this.......bastards

glanvillejon
14th October 2009, 17:23
the problem is kiwis are pussies and will just fall into line
Too many kiwis DO roll over and go "oh well, the government has the stats so it must just be our problem" FUCK THAT

marty
14th October 2009, 17:23
Prices in Aussie (in ACT)


Motorbikes

Registered for 12 months with no concessions. CC Fee in Australian Dollars
up to 300cc $197.80
301 to 600cc $511.40
over 600cc $511.40


UK is 66 quid/12 months. Insurance though on a bike over 600cc is over 1000 quid/year

bsasuper
14th October 2009, 17:23
FS! makes me feel like if I dont get nailed by a car im not gettin me moneys worth!

sleemanj
14th October 2009, 17:23
Your mind is already running into alternatives eh. In that case you'd be saying another $700 per year on insurance.

But if you have a lil wee wee on the road you're scrooooed.

No reg does NOT mean you instantly lose insurance.

This was discussed a couple weeks back in a thread titled WOF grace period. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=109004&page=3)

In short, for insurance to decline a claim the reason cited for doing so must be the result of something which had an affect in the claim. Eg, if you didn't have a wof, and your tyres were bald, and you ran off the road, they are within rights to say "yep, tyres shit, no insurance", if you didn't have a reg and ran off the road, they can NOT say "no reg, no claim" because not having a current registration label is not going to have any impact on if you have an accident or not, no way, no how.

Matt_TG in that thread posted the legals, I also posted a quote in the thread from an insurance policy.




The official Insurance line on not having a WOF could be covered under Section 11 of the Insurance Law Reform Act 1977 that covers exclusions that cannot be applied... The bold and underlining is mine.

It means that you can have an unwarrantable vehicle, be pissed as a newt, and driving outside the terms of your licence but sitting at traffic lights. Someone hits you, but the above issues don't have relevance to the accident, so your insurers may not refuse your claim if YOU prove that the issues weren't relevant.


Where

a) By the provisions of a contract of insurance the circumstances in which the insurer is bound to indemnify the insured against loss are so defined as to exclude or limit the liability of the insurer to indemnify the insured on the happening of certain events or on the existence of certain circumstances; and

(b) In the view of the Court or arbitrator determining the claim of the insured the liability of the insurer has been so defined because the happening of such events or the existence of such circumstances was in the view of the insurer likely to increase the risk of such loss occurring,—

the insured shall not be disentitled to be indemnified by the insurer by reason only of such provisions of the contract of insurance if the insured proves on the balance of probability that the loss in respect of which the insured seeks to be indemnified was not caused or contributed to by the happening of such events or the existence of such circumstances.

Not what the original question was about though, but perhaps relevant.

Ender EnZed
14th October 2009, 17:24
Hikoi:headbang::headbang::headbang:

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 17:24
also if a motorcycle goes off the road and the accident is caused by unmarked road works can we now sue the council for our acc levie as they might have caused the accident to begin with.


there are a lot of arguments but I agree with some on here we need to arrange a protest ride and everone needs to come together and fight this.

and we can have a big pile up and up the ACC deficit and blame the government for causing it as we HAD to protest :)

bga1
14th October 2009, 17:24
Take a look at any emergency department in the weekend during winter - Rugby players all day. What ACC fees do Rugby players pay?

DarkLord
14th October 2009, 17:25
So regardless of whether we have had an accident or not, we are all just being lumped together with those who have had accidents and hurt themselves and others.

Fantastic.

It should be the same as insurance - on a pay as you go system. What about bikers who have had an accident where they are not at fault? Why should they have to pay extra?

This is robbery. If there are any protest rides on in Wellington or Auckland, I'm there. Bastards.

scracha
14th October 2009, 17:26
Perhaps you should pull your head out of your fucking arse.

I said it about the cheesecuhttp://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/images/bgold/editor/menupop.giftter campaign and the same applies here - until motorcyclists are seen to be accepting of the fact that we have created a lot of the woes that befall us there is no hope of us getting any process reversed.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. I did say my head agreed with you. However, I also said there's a time and a place. At this particular time and place, telling everyone "we've created our own mess" is only pissing everyone off.

So unless you've something constructive to say about how we can avoid this ACC hike (whether deserved or otherwise), then
GO FORTH AND PROCREATE WITH YOURSELF

Jonno.
14th October 2009, 17:27
Fuck this who's organising the ride.

From Auckland to Wellington time it to land in Welly at rush hour.

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 17:27
I'm putting a hitch on the front of my bike and registering is as a TRAILER!
hahahahahahha

lozz900
14th October 2009, 17:28
$745 is just the acc component.. A rego will around $950..
Ive 3 bikes, Ill register none. Just pay the fines. Ive been doing it for a few years now and havnt been nicked once..

nothingflash
14th October 2009, 17:28
So regardless of whether we have had an accident or not, we are all just being lumped together with those who have had accidents and hurt themselves and others.

Fantastic.

It should be the same as insurance - on a pay as you go system. What about bikers who have had an accident where they are not at fault? Why should they have to pay extra?

This is robbery. If there are any protest rides on in Wellington or Auckland, I'm there. Bastards.

Me too - what a fuckin joke.

monkeymcbean
14th October 2009, 17:28
It's all relative, the gubmint has spoken it's going up. The prciks before National should never allowed ACC to go into $4 bill def.

Someone has to pay for it now, guess who that will be :p

Pricks before this government! Idiot! National Govnt are liars, they are only lining there own pockets and all there business friends over ths one.
Labour govt was the most honest govnt you will be seeing until there crooks that are in are out.
Wait until you have to pay you own hospital bills, or your own private health....if they decide they want to insure you, riding a motorcycle and all.....because that is where this government is heading, you will have to have health insurance.....then lets see who you are calling pricks!

Katman
14th October 2009, 17:29
So unless you've something constructive to say about how we can avoid this ACC hike (whether deserved or otherwise), then
GO FORTH AND PROCREATE WITH YOURSELF

It's called due process.

We are not going to get anywhere by simply standing there screaming "FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKERS".


I did say my head agreed with you.

Go re-read your post. You appeared to say quite the opposite.


Katman, whilst my brain agrees with me, for once my fingers just can't help but type

u4ea
14th October 2009, 17:29
:buggerd:I feel like Ive just been fucked up the arse by the government..there goes my virgin arsehole

lozz900
14th October 2009, 17:30
Wadda bout buying just the miles you do like diesel miles.

ukusa
14th October 2009, 17:30
Stats are good. Be good to collect stats on how ACC collate motorcycle accidents. I'm sure plenty farm workers fall off quad bikes, the nursey ticks the "motorcycle accident tick box" and then the farm worker claims ACC, rehab etc for the next 10 years.

exactly, how many ACC claims are non registered bikes, like motocross/enduro/farm/trials/race etc

The pricks. Everyone gets tarred with the same brush. Bikers that do 2000 k's a year pay the same as one on the road for 50000 ks a year.. The whole ACC tax should be done on fuel, that way if you use your bike less or if you have several bikes, you still only pay for the kms you do.
Nasty for those who have 3 or 4 bikes in the shed!

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 17:30
100000 bikers camping cold kiwi style in spaghetti junction for a week screaming it would.
But I just like camping and screaming

Ragingrob
14th October 2009, 17:31
What really grinds my gears is how they rip out all the stats about how likely we are to crash, and what the injury rates/costs are etc etc... But seem to discount the fact that one car crash can injure/kill 5 people or more in the ONE car! Whereas bike incidents mostly involve the sole rider.

Like they said at the end of the report, gonna be a lot of people banking on the fact they might just get the odd fine rather than paying the yearly rego.

glanvillejon
14th October 2009, 17:31
I havnt been this ragingly angry in years..

Right now pretty much all I can think about is maiming politicians and ACC employees.

Lets see the fuckers try and take my money when we cut their fucking fingers off.
lmfao shit I was angry as hell, but now im laughing my titts off that was fucking good mate!! cut the fuckers fingers off that'll do it!

Ender EnZed
14th October 2009, 17:31
$745 is just the acc component.. A rego will around $950..
Ive 3 bikes, Ill register none. Just pay the fines. Ive been doing it for a few years now and havnt been nicked once..

How much is the fine???

oscarnz
14th October 2009, 17:31
Right, if nobody else will, I'll organise a fucking Hikoi down to Parliament against this bullshit.

Fuck upcoming exams, this is pricing us off the road, and in doing so is impinging upon my rights. I'm not going to fucking stand for it.

Edit: The cunts are meant to be encouraging the use of more environmentally friendly transport for fuck's sake.

Great idea I think a Hikoi to Parliament along with a petition is a awesome idea

jtzzr
14th October 2009, 17:31
Hikoi:headbang::headbang::headbang:

Can`t be fucked walking , I`ll take my unregistered bike.

But i`ll be there .

Meanie
14th October 2009, 17:31
Guess im gonna have two unregistered bikes in the shed, no way im gonna pay that

Ixion
14th October 2009, 17:31
Well, here's an interesting figure.

Acc claim


In 2008/09 ACC paid more than $62 million for motorcycle riders but collected only $12.3 million in levies from them.


But, from here (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motor%20vehicle%20crashes%202008_Section%204%20Mot orcycle%20casualties%20and%20crashes.pdf)
(official and authorative source ) , total motorcycle casualties for 2008 were 1396 injured and 50 killed. Total 1446. Now unless my calculator has sprung a leak, that works out at $42876 average. For EVERY motorcycle crash. Including the minor ones, where the riders just given some sticking plaster and sent on his way.

Not at all sure that I believe that figure, in thes ense that it is probably true BUT massively inflated by a BIG contribution toward historical residual claims. Which the government have now said they can take till 2019, instead of 2012 , to fund. But ACC are ignoring the difference that extension would make to the levy. It works out at $100 less for ALL vehicles, but would be MUCh higher for bikes.

Mikkel
14th October 2009, 17:33
I am thinking I've got the solution.

Let's introduce an ACC levy for idiocy online - the amount of stress and discomfiture caused by this is significant and constitutes a real threat to public health - and then use that to fund the deficit.


No argument is ever going to make doubling or tripling ACC levies in one fell sweep reasonable.

Headbanger
14th October 2009, 17:33
Over the price of three no-rego tickets, you do the maths, get caught three or less times? - you are ahead!:clap:.

" how lucky do you feel, punk?"

How lucky do you feel?

Maha
14th October 2009, 17:34
Fuck this who's organising the ride.

From Auckland to Wellington time it to land in Welly at rush hour.


The logistics of making that happen will be near on impossible, can you imagine 1000 + bikes trying to negotiate thier way through peak hour traffic in Wellington?....the bike numbers may well be more, you should join Maki and his jaunt through Ekatahuna on the stroke of midnight..:headbang:

glanvillejon
14th October 2009, 17:34
No reg does NOT mean you instantly lose insurance.

This was discussed a couple weeks back in a thread titled WOF grace period. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=109004&page=3)

In short, for insurance to decline a claim the reason cited for doing so must be the result of something which had an affect in the claim. Eg, if you didn't have a wof, and your tyres were bald, and you ran off the road, they are within rights to say "yep, tyres shit, no insurance", if you didn't have a reg and ran off the road, they can NOT say "no reg, no claim" because not having a current registration label is not going to have any impact on if you have an accident or not, no way, no how.

Matt_TG in that thread posted the legals, I also posted a quote in the thread from an insurance policy.
Sweet, im not paying the fuckers then. Done.

squip
14th October 2009, 17:35
Watch this:
http://www.3news.co.nz/ACC-changes-to-be-announced-today-by-Govt-/tabid/370/articleID/125281/cat/67/Default.aspx

Towards the end is some interesting information - "They are collecting more levies than they are paying out in compensation" "No urgent need"

dmc
14th October 2009, 17:35
So if I go for a ride to the track to watch the racing I have to pay an insane amount of money in ACC levies, but if I drove to the track and then rode my bike as fast as I can on the track I pay nothing?

yod
14th October 2009, 17:35
reading the ACC stats doesn't actually state who (or what) was AT FAULT in each crash; e.g: there were 66 injury crashes on straight sections of road, but that doesn't explain whether it was the riders fault or not, there is no indication of that at all, (as far as I can decipher)

a point worth making if you choose to make a submission

Lonebull
14th October 2009, 17:36
For me it's up from $250 odd to $750 odd... Fuck me that's quite a rise!

I fit into this catergory. I don't own a car and don't bloody want one. Have had two minor accidents in 30 years of riding (more than 20 years ago) and no visits to the quack. I average about 20,000k per year and most of the shit I see (and I see a lot) are stupid bloody cagers.

Damn the bastards. Next election you pricks are toast and don't think I won't remember. I am sick to death of being blamed and persecuted for other peoples fuck ups.

Angry does not begin to describe how i feel at the moment. Nick Smith pray to christ almighty you don't bump into me in the next few weeks or the next three years for that matter.

I will be watching for proposed action on this site. Whatever gets sorted I'm in. The more of us the better. We need to be organised and smart.

Damn them to hell:mad:

glanvillejon
14th October 2009, 17:36
I reckon mate, it's only when it's a minority they THINK they can pick on do they do it. TAX MAORI WOMEN more because they smoke more.
Oh wait. that's discrimination.
TAX MOTORCYCLISTS MORE.... oh wait.... that's..... what's that again?
fuckin oats, i agree, if the gonna tax us more, tax every other minority, Yanks should pay more cause they have a tendancy to cross the centre line and fuck motorcylists up

yod
14th October 2009, 17:37
can you imagine 1000 + bikes trying to negotiate thier way through peak hour traffic in Wellington?....

yep

can you imagine peak traffic in wellington trying to deal with it? not a bad idea....

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 17:37
How much are COPS going to be DOCKED? How much did it cost for those 2 poor bastards HE decided to do a U-TURN infront of?

Squiggles
14th October 2009, 17:38
The harold called me for my thoughts on this :laugh:
Told them i think its a crock and that balancing the books isnt going to reduce the size of em. That cc limits are no indication of power... Many would simply run the risk of getting and that some of you coonts were already calling for groups like BRONZ to start up the protest machine.

scracha
14th October 2009, 17:39
We are not going to get anywhere by simply standing there screaming "FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKERS".

Five stages and all that. First stage for me is swearing like a bastard.




Go re-read your post. You appeared to say quite the opposite.
Syntax Error...semantics should have been obvious.

firefighter
14th October 2009, 17:39
Anyone that paid insurance as a young'un for a 2L turbo vehicle will tell you it costs you a shit load....

Why is that I wonder? Because you are more likely to crash?

I hope the young drivers and drivers of larger capacity cars are going to get a big hike too.

Hows that for perspective?

offrd
14th October 2009, 17:39
Wadda bout buying just the miles you do like diesel miles.

Good idea! then disconnect the speedo same as in a diesel light vehicle! and dont they know it!

My thoughts are firstly screw them, run no rego! Second thought rego for one month to get the wof so fines are cheaper, third thought protest like hell while doing the second thought..

If we all do that, they dont get the revenue.....

Organised protest in the main centers!

Thousands of motorbikes "out of fuel" on the auckland harbour bridge should get a little attention, northern group and southern group, block that sucker!:clap:

ZephyrMark2
14th October 2009, 17:40
Hikoi:headbang::headbang::headbang:

JIHAD!!! :headbang::headbang::headbang:

ctrain
14th October 2009, 17:41
Thats just bullshit.

Will just mean i wont register the thou. No doubt they will increase the fine tho for not being regod if ur caught or demerits or some crap like that

Why couldnt they just up everyones levy by the same amount - that said, I pay rego (and the increased levy) for my car too but i can only be hurt once - double taxing at its best.

Will be calling my MP tomorrow, not that they will do much about it as it already sounds pretty set to go throuhg - o well gotta try dont we.

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 17:42
reading the ACC stats doesn't actually state who (or what) was AT FAULT in each crash; e.g: there were 66 injury crashes on straight sections of road, but that doesn't explain whether it was the riders fault or not, there is no indication of that at all, (as far as I can decipher)

a point worth making if you choose to make a submission

Lol, it's like taxing people walking on the pavement cuz someone runs onto the footpath!

sinned
14th October 2009, 17:43
Private insurance cover? It would be interesting to see what the commercial insurers would set the premium at to cover the risk. My guess is a lot less than the ACC calculation.

ZephyrMark2
14th October 2009, 17:44
You know what?!?!

Maybe ACC should sell they're shit-arse excuse for a shopping mall in Papamoa!! I'd hate to think how much money ACC lost in building a shopping mall that has failed..

Anyone want a refund for the stupidity?

spookytooth
14th October 2009, 17:44
Just a idea.Instead of a ride/protest Wouldnt leaving the bikes home and do it in cars instead.Cars with sines like this is what 1000 more cars looks like (we can't afford our bikes)But na fuck it bikes would look so much better

Bald Eagle
14th October 2009, 17:45
Heres a suggestion for all you.

All the regular ride events around all the regions become protest rides to parliament / MP's offices / through main roads.

All multi bike traffic holds up every weekly recurrence until further notice.

ukusa
14th October 2009, 17:46
Private insurance cover? It would be interesting to see what the commercial insurers would set the premium at to cover the risk. My guess is a lot less than the ACC calculation.

Interesting.... ACC tax will be more than most bike insurances

tomobedlam
14th October 2009, 17:46
Private insurance cover? It would be interesting to see what the commercial insurers would set the premium at to cover the risk. My guess is a lot less than the ACC calculation.

Something tells me that might be the point. Wouldn't that motivate us toward privatisation

glanvillejon
14th October 2009, 17:47
Well, here's an interesting figure.

Acc claim


But, from here (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motor%20vehicle%20crashes%202008_Section%204%20Mot orcycle%20casualties%20and%20crashes.pdf)
(official and authorative source ) , total motorcycle casualties for 2008 were 1396 injured and 50 killed. Total 1446. Now unless my calculator has sprung a leak, that works out at $42876 average. For EVERY motorcycle crash. Including the minor ones, where the riders just given some sticking plaster and sent on his way.

Not at all sure that I believe that figure, in thes ense that it is probably true BUT massively inflated by a BIG contribution toward historical residual claims. Which the government have now said they can take till 2019, instead of 2012 , to fund. But ACC are ignoring the difference that extension would make to the levy. It works out at $100 less for ALL vehicles, but would be MUCh higher for bikes.
Every time someone is transported in an ambulance and it is ACC related, ACC pays the ambulance service $700 fuckin bucks for that 5 minute ride to hospital. That is one of the reasons the cost is so bloody high.

Dafe
14th October 2009, 17:47
Yep, There's heaps of New Zealanders that milk the ACC system because it's there for the taking. ACC are so heavily staffed for what they do. The entire ACC system has failed and it's times like this, somebody lucks out. Unfortunately, It isn't the ACC management. Looks like the Govt are doing some high level negotiations with their mates at ACC.

I'm keen to attend each and every protest at parliament.

How about doing a motorcycle ride and camp out on Parliament grounds, every few months for the entire weekend?

I feel really bad for the bike shops and the workers/owners there.

rosie631
14th October 2009, 17:49
Private insurance cover? It would be interesting to see what the commercial insurers would set the premium at to cover the risk. My guess is a lot less than the ACC calculation.

Yep, I reckon. Either it's a no fault system and we all pay the same. OR it's user pays and it's privatised. Then if all the shit heads that play rugby, mountain bike etc etc want to be covered for those pastimes they have to declare them and pay accordingly. As it stands motorcyclists are the only high risk minorities being targeted and everyone else gets off scott free.
WHAT A CROCK OF FUCKING BULLSHIT

ZephyrMark2
14th October 2009, 17:49
What about the 290 odd people working for ACC that earn over $100k per year???

Wonder how many of those have a bike?

DMNTD
14th October 2009, 17:50
So, what are y'all going to do about it.

Bleat on here, and spread 'em and take it?

Or get out and protest?

Exactly...more than willing to utilise work's database to spread the word of a well organised protest will full support of management.

Personally I'd like to see all cities brought to a stop...the truckies did well from memory

Mikkel
14th October 2009, 17:50
Well, here's an interesting figure.

Acc claim


But, from here (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motor%20vehicle%20crashes%202008_Section%204%20Mot orcycle%20casualties%20and%20crashes.pdf)
(official and authorative source ) , total motorcycle casualties for 2008 were 1396 injured and 50 killed. Total 1446. Now unless my calculator has sprung a leak, that works out at $42876 average. For EVERY motorcycle crash. Including the minor ones, where the riders just given some sticking plaster and sent on his way.

Not at all sure that I believe that figure, in thes ense that it is probably true BUT massively inflated by a BIG contribution toward historical residual claims. Which the government have now said they can take till 2019, instead of 2012 , to fund. But ACC are ignoring the difference that extension would make to the levy. It works out at $100 less for ALL vehicles, but would be MUCh higher for bikes.

Indeed, I am very suspicious of the statistics used here. Just to give an example from this (http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/Documents/Motor%20vehicle%20crashes%202008_Section%202%20Cas ualties%20and%20crashes.pdf) data: in 2008 8699 car drivers were and 3470 passengers were killed or injured. Compare that with 1362 motorcycle riders and 84 motorcycle pillions for the same period. What I am getting at is that the ACC cost for putting a driver back together is no higher than for a passenger, yet the passenger segment is relatively much higher for cars than motorcycles - which hardly is a surprise.

Then we can consider, from the same data, the fraction of killed versus injured for a given category:
Car driver: 163/8536 = 1.9%
Car passenger: 105/3365 = 3.1%
Motorcycle rider: 48/1314 = 3.7%
Motorcycle pillion: 2/82 = 2.4%

I hope we can agree that there will be no long-term expenses associated with those killed in an accident, which is what I am brought to understand is one of those things causing the current shortfall. So considering that motorcycle riders are about twice as likely to be killed in an accident and thus half as likely to be costing ACC a lot of money down the road actually suggests that our levy should be relatively lower than for cars.

I wonder if such considerations have been included in the currently proposed ACC levy increases.

de_wood_elf
14th October 2009, 17:51
I'm keen for any protest ride that gets organized. We gotta fight this bull, we can't just sit back and let them screw us over, we bloody voted them in.

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 17:51
No disrespect to our Brown, Yellow, Black, Green, Red and Orange Rider brothers and sisters, but do any of you get the feeling that they think they can get away with this because it's mostly WHITE DUDES who ride bikes?
The ONLY ethnic/gender group you can discriminate against these days?
We "can't" scream "discrimination" because we're mostly white dudes.
We ARE the devil. We discriminate, not the other way around right?
Ahhh fuck, that's just a whole other bucket of worms. hahahahha

Bounce001
14th October 2009, 17:52
DIRTY THIEVING MONGREL BASTARDS :argh: :mad:

phred
14th October 2009, 17:53
Here's the link to make a submission
http://www.acc.co.nz/for-business/levy-consultation/index.htm

Danae
14th October 2009, 17:53
I haven't been to a bike rally yet, can we have one on the Parliament lawn? Have a bon fire, do some stunts, wet t shirt comp, etc etc and every 10 mins we all start up our bikes and rev the snot out if them and then go back to our fire and beers. Have tent, will travel and camp. It'll be fun!!!


How about doing a motorcycle ride and camp out on Parliament grounds, every few months for the entire weekend?

I say we do this. We aren't pissing off other road users (we need em on our side) and a whole bunch of bikers camped out will bring the attention of the media and especially parliament. I also like the idea of starting up the bikes every now and then XD

hospitalfood
14th October 2009, 17:53
call your local mp in protest, do it now, leave a message if you cannot get through !

do it !!!!!

u4ea
14th October 2009, 17:53
So it's settled then, a Labour weekend protest starts 6 am in the norf shore and blocks the bridge friday morning, then moves south to meet 6 am teusday morning On the kapiti coast for a very very slow ride into parliment (Hell some 200-400 odd bikes may get gridlocked at the Hutt coast interchange on the way in and not move for several hours) !!! Seem to recall they dont like bikes parked on the grass at parliment neither, so be carefull you park in the correct manner !!

Well my 64 650 bonnie is running as of today..What is the revin gunna cost now and what will the cost of ongoing rego for a classic be?? I can do the ride with no rego..so long as I dont get locked up and criminilised.

Mrs Busa Pete
14th October 2009, 17:55
Update on submission question.

Yes, you will be able to make submissions. Deadline is 10 November . At present these are proposals.

Be aware though that historically, ACC have totally ignored all submissions.

Only time they ever blinked was the great revolt in '93 .

But bikers were tougher and harder in '93.

I don't think the modern breed has it in them for concerted protest action.

You'll all bleat and pay up, or sell the bike and tell everyone you never liked those dangerous things anyway.

BRONZ (Auckland) will discuss an action plan next Wednesday evening . 7:30 pm. Danish House 6, Rockridge Rd Penrose.

See you there. Or not.

This from the ACC


Xion who orginized that protest ride in 93.

We would be in for a protest ride on parliment. And we also will not be registering our bikes.

rustic101
14th October 2009, 17:55
nick.smith@national.org.nz


I am personally gutted by this and I am a pro National supporter. It is a fact that most bike crashes are caused by cages... Scooters have a higher crash rate. I'm going to get the Crash facts and stats and post them on here.

I am fumming beyound words.... Bike riders are not, are not a minority and we need to address this issue collectively..

Dafe
14th October 2009, 17:55
Who's Gonna Organize The First Parliament Protest for This Weekend?????

Big Zappa
14th October 2009, 17:55
Constructive post:

A fully funded model of ACC is completely unjustifiable, especially in this current climate.

Wouldn't it be more sensible to move to a system where some proportion is fully funded (ie 1/3 to 1/2, which is most insurance companies do)?

But then of course you couldn't tout that ACC is a failed and outmoded system, and how can the public have all this juice pork, when your rich insurance company mates can have it... and misinvest it... and avoid paying out at all costs.. and gamble it away... and trigger a complete fucking global mess.

rosie631
14th October 2009, 17:55
Something tells me that might be the point. Wouldn't that motivate us toward privatisation

But, we don't have the option to go private. I would cos I reckon I could get it damn site cheaper but ACC is COMPULSORY. Oh, wait, no it's not. That's the last time I rego my bike. They can go and fuck themselves.

Charlied1
14th October 2009, 17:56
This whole thing has the look of a political game and we are the football. Prepare for the coming of private insures to push out ACC, coming in with low premiums (for now) until we are hooked and then they can really screw us. Sure am glad I didnt vote for these bunch of bastards but that is no excuse not to fight them from now until the next election.

rosie631
14th October 2009, 17:57
Xion who orginized that protest ride in 93.

We would be in for a protest ride on parliment. And we also will not be registering our bikes.

Same here. And if I get done for no rego too fuckin bad.

Danae
14th October 2009, 17:57
RIGHT

Who's keen for a campout on Labour weekend?

Gather your motorcycling buddies and ride down in your own time...bring food or money for food. If you're already in Wellington you have no excuse!

To make any sort of difference we need media coverage and we need them to know what we are actually protesting about.

Burger
14th October 2009, 17:58
649cc. Mental.

I'll rego the bike for a year before it comes into effect, after that I'll either deregister it, or sell it.

Fuck you ACC.

kiwi cowboy
14th October 2009, 17:58
What about the 290 odd people working for ACC that earn over $100k per year???

Wonder how many of those have a bike?

If i earned 100k a year it probly wouldnt worry me cos i could afford it:Pokey:

Oakie
14th October 2009, 17:58
Slow up on the posting guys! This damned thread is growing faster than I can read it!

zeocen
14th October 2009, 17:59
In my uneducated opinion, they should get rid of the 50cc moped on car license deal, from only 4 months commuting into the city so far, I have seen some fucking wierd shit from those little scooters. Some of them make me tense up on my bike while watching them run red lights and do all sorts of whacky shit.

Unless a 50cc scooter on a car license isn't counted towards motorcycle statistics, but yeah.

Katman
14th October 2009, 17:59
It is a fact that most bike crashes are caused by cages

Why do you people keep banging that bullshit drum?

Thunder 8
14th October 2009, 17:59
fuckin oats, i agree, if the gonna tax us more, tax every other minority, Yanks should pay more cause they have a tendancy to cross the centre line and fuck motorcylists up
Yea could'nt agree more. Lost two friends from that exact scenario.
As for the absolute assholes running the acc they can get fucked right along with the fucker who came up with this discriminatory bullshit.
Feel really angry at the moment.
Just another example of NZ going mad:angry2::angry2:

slimjim
14th October 2009, 18:00
aaarrr crap $1700 odd dollars to reg one 1300 , 0ne 400 and a 250...shit o dear.. crazy man..:weep::weep:

archie-no2
14th October 2009, 18:00
wont it end up cheaper to be caught riding an unregistered bike and pay the fine than paying for the rego each year.

Madmax
14th October 2009, 18:00
How often do plates get randomly checked for stuff when cops are sitting behind them?

ie, will I get caught randomly, or would it mostly be if you get pulled over?
No plate
Dont stop

bike will look good with no plate hanger as well

:mad:

Indiana_Jones
14th October 2009, 18:00
RIGHT

Who's keen for a campout on Labour weekend?

Gather your motorcycling buddies and ride down in your own time...bring food or money for food. If you're already in Wellington you have no excuse!

To make any sort of difference we need media coverage and we need them to know what we are actually protesting about.

For people in Auckland who can't afford to get down to Wellington etc, they should camp out the local MPs offices and the ACC buildings.

-Indy

NordieBoy
14th October 2009, 18:01
Then we can consider, from the same data, the fraction of killed versus injured for a given category:
Car driver: 163/8536 = 1.9%
Car passenger: 105/3365 = 3.1%
Motorcycle rider: 48/1314 = 3.7%
Motorcycle pillion: 2/82 = 2.4%

Next will be ACC trying to work out how to tax car passengers.

Dafe
14th October 2009, 18:01
I've motorcycled on and off for 16 years. Never received a medical/hospital treatment as a result of biking.

I've played Rugby the last 18 years and been to hospital at least 6 times.

I played Indoor soccer for 2 years and went to hospital 3 times.

I've got 1 child and he had problems at birth. I went to the hospital over 40 times (Visited him every day for six weeks).

I can't work it out! Motorcyclists are very unfortunate.

zoom
14th October 2009, 18:01
This is such bull shit. IS it going to keep going up every year like it always does too? The govt should be encouraging bikers to free up parking and traffic instead of discriminating against them as per usual. Besides the majority crashes are not the bikers fault but some prick in a cage that takes it for granted that they own the road. The one at fault for an accident should be the one to pay any ACC costs required. I mean seriously, yea bike accidents are pretty up there in stats but much as we dont want to admit it if you do crash on a bike you are much more likely to cark it then if you were in a car. So in this case who needs ACC anyhow when your six feet under?

Pixie
14th October 2009, 18:02
I'm pissed off.
I'm gunna watch Fergies' lumps on Close Up

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 18:03
and Associate ACC Minister Pansy Wong HASN"T BROUGHT ANY SIGNS FROM ME YET! I'm on her ass tomorrow! lol.... wasting my time. I'll have to charge her for climbing up on her roof, my acc charges for such dangerous activity will send me bankrupt... especially as I rode there!

megageoff76
14th October 2009, 18:04
Can you buy up loads of rego in advance before the price increase?

If its the case ill go down tomorrow and buy 2 years worth.

Thaeos
14th October 2009, 18:05
wont it end up cheaper to be caught riding an unregistered bike and pay the fine than paying for the rego each year.

If you own more than 1 bike then quite possible

spookytooth
14th October 2009, 18:05
Why do you people keep banging that bullshit drum?
"crap" i hate to have to agree with Katman,but on that i do

Thaeos
14th October 2009, 18:06
... Besides the majority crashes are not the bikers fault but some prick in a cage ...

Not according to the stats ACC is using

zoom
14th October 2009, 18:07
You cant get more then 12 months worth...

Dafe
14th October 2009, 18:09
I can't wait to see Parliament covered in angry Bikies. :banana:

Danae
14th October 2009, 18:09
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1129456757#post1129456757

No one started a thread so I dun did it mahself.

BMWST?
14th October 2009, 18:10
No they're not. 50% are people falling off on corners. By themselves.

what about the other 50 percent...

Sharry
14th October 2009, 18:10
Email bomb Nick Smith and John Key NOW

nick.smith@national.org.nz

john.key@national.org.nz

I just sent this:

Dear Dr Smith

I thought I would let you know that the proposed ACC levy increases for motorcycle registration are outrageous.

The likely response to this from motorcyclists will be similar to protests that have occurred in Europe i.e. We will not register our vehicles.

Regards


I have sent an email to then both.

Where does $257.69 come from? I have just registered my bike for 12 months and it cost $321.24

bogan
14th October 2009, 18:11
those figure dont smell right, we need an acc insider to clarify exactly what falls into the motorbike accidents cost.

Also with regards to the process, i agree with many other, we dont want to piss off the car drivers, we do want to draw attention to the issue. Big pile of bikes on welli waterfront with signs or summat, and maybe when we disperse the could be some skidmarks left telling of our cause.

also, holy shit popular thread, over a hundy members viewing!

Cr1MiNaL
14th October 2009, 18:11
So who is ultimately responsible for all of this BS I say? Us, we are ultimately responsible. We elect a group of people from amongst ourselves to govern our Nation without our permission. In other words we democratically elect a dictatorship. Nice.

atothek
14th October 2009, 18:13
Take a look at any emergency department in the weekend during winter - Rugby players all day. What ACC fees do Rugby players pay?

The NZRU pays a massive amount to ACC - luckily they make shitloads as well. Not sure if individual Unions also pay.

High_Voltage
14th October 2009, 18:13
Man wat the hell and it isnt even april fools day.
thats not going to encourage me to get a rego. its going to be cheaper to deregister your bike and re register it every year or yet still if you get puled over twice each year (on a 250 more on a 600) with no rego youll come out better off.
So whens the protest?

MadDuck
14th October 2009, 18:15
For people in Auckland who can't afford to get down to Wellington etc, they should camp out the local MPs offices and the ACC buildings.

-Indy

Well John Keys electoral office is in Kumeu (what wasnt burnt down) and Lockwood Smith is the local MP here in Rodney......

Dafe
14th October 2009, 18:15
When do these changes take effect?
I wanna go to the VTNZ in the morning if I still can..... Or can I do it online now at the old price??? Hmmmm

https://transact.landtransport.govt.nz/transactions/renewvehiclelicence/step1.aspx

Ixion
14th October 2009, 18:15
Just had a call from Tv wanting comment

And, an interesting comment from the ACCs submission document (please read this)



While ACC would like to improve the equity between vehicle classifications and move closer towards their true relativities, we recognise that the affordability of levies is important, as is the desire that the level of levies charged does not result in vehicle owners choosing not to license and warrant their vehicles each year.

pzkpfw
14th October 2009, 18:15
Ive 3 bikes, Ill register none. Just pay the fines. Ive been doing it for a few years now and havnt been nicked once..

I'm not writing this to hassle you, you do what you want, that's cool.

But this points out another problem with this type of "law".

The law abiding folk end up paying, and those that ignore the law get a free ride.

And if you come off your bike (your fault or not) you'll still get the same ACC cover as those that paid their ACC fees.


Stupid useless systems. (Like firearm registration - like when are the bank robbers going to go register their weapons? Nope; it's just the folk who want to follow the rules who go through all the hassles.)


(Again, this is not at you in particular...)

Trudes
14th October 2009, 18:16
Who's Gonna Organize The First Parliament Protest for This Weekend?????


RIGHT

Who's keen for a campout on Labour weekend?

Gather your motorcycling buddies and ride down in your own time...bring food or money for food. If you're already in Wellington you have no excuse!

To make any sort of difference we need media coverage and we need them to know what we are actually protesting about.

I am so in!!! I love camping. I'll bring the camp toilet.

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 18:17
10 most dangerous occupations according to ACC levies:
Rugby player (league or union)
Horse racing and husbandry
Logging and forestry
Cricketer
Pest control, hunting and trapping
Fishing
Meat processing
Equine sports (not racing)
Shearing
Sawmilling and chipping
Source: ACC

davereid
14th October 2009, 18:17
Any protest, or disagreement needs a goal.

IMHO.

ACC is a "no-fault" system.

So, I suggest we set our target at the same rego fee as a car.

Otherwise we may be tempted to accept a $500-%600 figure as "a good deal".

The fact that we have more accidents or that they cost more, in a "no fault system" is irrelevant.

For example, should women pay more than men because they have a higher risk of rape ?

Should tall people pay more than short because they have a higher risk of back injury ?

vstrom
14th October 2009, 18:18
One bike in the middle of every car park in the middle of town for a day in every town would get a lot of attention ,would only take 50 bikes per town. i got three bikes ,still cant ride more than one at a time if i rego all three ,well bugger me $2250 per year,plus the increase levy im going to pay at work im fucked

my_r32
14th October 2009, 18:18
I have sent an email to then both.

Where does $257.69 come from? I have just registered my bike for 12 months and it cost $321.24
The $257.69 is JUST the ACC levie portion of what you pay. The rest is GST: $35.69, License Fee: $24.50, Administration: $6.72 and Other Levies: $1.64. (I have my rego letter here as its due on the 29th :P)

And I am farking pissed off about this. Would much rather a pay as you go system, but would prefer more that ACC got there bloody act together and run the company properly.....

glanvillejon
14th October 2009, 18:19
Email bomb Nick Smith and John Key NOW

nick.smith@national.org.nz

john.key@national.org.nz

I just sent this:

Dear Dr Smith

I thought I would let you know that the proposed ACC levy increases for motorcycle registration are outrageous.

The likely response to this from motorcyclists will be similar to protests that have occurred in Europe i.e. We will not register our vehicles.

Regards
Done. Go on every one DO IT!!!

zoom
14th October 2009, 18:19
yea but those ACC stats count scooters too don't they. Fair enough scooter riders should have to pay more because some of those scooter drivers are lets face it idiots who don't respect the road but motorcyclist are already paying enough. Plus what about push bikers, my friend is a radiologist and she says the majority of accident and emergency people are push bikers done completely over. They should have to pay ACC too in that case.

burden2
14th October 2009, 18:20
wont it end up cheaper to be caught riding an unregistered bike and pay the fine than paying for the rego each year.

How many random stops are the Highway Patrol going to have to do once this starts happening? I bet three an hour is going to tripled or quadrupled and the fines will have to go up to pay for the printing of more ticket books.
The sad truth is the coppers on the road are gonna be firmly instructed by the Schutzstaffel in Wellington to be more active in randomly stopping motorcycles for "safety" checks -as we all know the focus for the Highway Patrol and all Police on the roads is on Safety and I am absolutely sure that my bike is so much safer when I have lightened the load on the suspension and steering by having an empty wallet. This is probably going to have a long term effect of reducing my carbon footprint as I wont have to carry all that evil money around.

Wiki Drifter
14th October 2009, 18:23
Over the price of three no-rego tickets, you do the maths, get caught three or less times? - you are ahead!:clap:.

" how lucky do you feel, punk?"

The cops will just end up doing more checks on bikers knowing that more than likely they'll be unregistered. ($more fines$)

Rape is a war crime, Smith needs to be sent to The Hague.

BMWST?
14th October 2009, 18:24
If they don't stop riding on SH2 in the Hutt like it's the Tour de France, I will PERSONALLY make sure that cyclists cost more than motorcyclists. They have a cycle lane they don't use. I think I will start by mining the service lanes.

The "cycle lane" is a poorly disguised rubbish tip.A road bike Will get a puncture. Its a great design that dumps cyclists on the wrong side of a 100 kmhr road.Your attitude towards cyclists is strangely similar to that of most motorists towards Motorcyclists.

rustic101
14th October 2009, 18:24
Dear Dr Smith,

I write to express my outrage at what you are reported as saying in the media with respect to ACC levies; more so the increase to motorcycle owners, particularly those of us that own over 600cc bikes.

There are some facts that your advisers have failed to identify or factually present. Some of these are:
• Cars are reported to cause more accidents to motorcyclists
• Scooter riders have a higher crash rate than higher CC rated motorcycles
• Most Motorcyclists own one or more vehicles in addition to their bikes, yet only use one at a time, yet are expected to maintain all registrations and levies.
• The ACC crash stats are flawed when comparing with the LTSA and Road Policing data
• Sports injuries and recreational injuires have a higher fiscal claim that Motorcyclists

If your intention is genuine you are treading a very thin line with your supporters. If this is a political game based around prepping for privatisation, be very careful as it may just come back to bite.

National have always had my support. I work hard and do not fit into any of the hand out boxes. Motorcycling is my one freedom and reward, not just a method of getting to work.

The Kiwibiker and Trademe message boards are in overdrive as a result of the release you made. I will compose myself and write again as well as try and find out if I am able to make a public submission on the issue.

Kind regards

[name and address supplied]

Madmax
14th October 2009, 18:24
I am so in!!! I love camping. I'll bring the camp toilet.
dont bother the place is full of shit anyway

Maha
14th October 2009, 18:26
Well John Keys electoral office is in Kumeu (what wasnt burnt down) and Lockwood Smith is the local MP here in Rodney......

Lockwood has a farm at Ruawai, heaps a bulls too, we could camp there and Barbie a few beefs...:headbang:

imdying
14th October 2009, 18:27
Any protest, or disagreement needs a goal.

IMHO.

ACC is a "no-fault" system.

So, I suggest we set our target at the same rego fee as a car.

Otherwise we may be tempted to accept a $500-%600 figure as "a good deal".

The fact that we have more accidents or that they cost more, in a "no fault system" is irrelevant.Definitely, love this post so far.

5150
14th October 2009, 18:28
where is AlQaida (sp?) and their suicide bombers when you really need them!!!!

So i am going to sell my slow(er) BMW R1100 GS and replace it with a 598cc R6, or 249cc RGV250 so i can pay less levy. Can anyone point out the logic behind this??? There is a reason why Beehive in Wellington is round. Have you ever seen a square circus???? :oi-grr:

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 18:30
Claims from last 07 -08
horse riding, motocross and trailbiking accounted for $22.8m
Claims for motor-racing injuries cost $18
Rugby union claims. 39 million.
Rugby league 10 million.

How much shortfall is there in these?
They said 40 mill for bikers.

Ok, i'm sure theres more than 40 mill shortfall here.
where they going to find that money?

Oh crap, I motocross and mountainbike!

banditrider
14th October 2009, 18:30
Ok, where to start?

(1) I'll be looking at over $2K for 2 bikes and a car (well more than my combined full insurance cover) yet I can only pilot one of them at a time and only have 1 accident at a time. I've scratched my head and I can't seem to work out how this could possibly be fair. Any ideas?

(2) ACC is supposed to be like insurance - you have an accident and you get patched up. Where's my no claims bonus for 20 years accident free riding and no ACC claims in 38 years.

(3) Vehicles don't have accidents - people do. Insurance companies recognise that different people/activities have different risk and adjust premiums accordingly. Shouldn't ACC be able to do this? That way they we can share the cost with the rugby players, mountain bikers, motocross riders, parachutists, ballet dancers etc...Also, maybe you should be able to loose your cover eg a repeat drunk driver or squids (car or bike) wiping out every weekend. I can see where demerits might be your enemy here too...

The reason why they are doing it through registration is because it's easy and someone else collects the money for them. We need to fight these potential increases but we need to fight them intelligently. Protest rides are fine and I'll be there but let's get those letters and submissions in - and think before you put pen to paper. I may have not put my thoughts together as well as I could but I've a few more that I want to work through and get down before sending anything off.

Ride safe!

PrincessBandit
14th October 2009, 18:30
Just a idea.Instead of a ride/protest Wouldnt leaving the bikes home and do it in cars instead.Cars with sines like this is what 1000 more cars looks like (we can't afford our bikes)But na fuck it bikes would look so much better

That might not be such a bad idea - imagine the congestion with cars. The comparison then with the same number of bikes surely couldn't be missed. I hate to think what Auckland traffic will be like if we all have to lose our bikes and take cars; not to mention the surge in demand for parking.....

Thunder 8
14th October 2009, 18:31
There is a reason why Beehive in Wellington is round. Have you ever seen a square circus???? :oi-grr:

:clap: Right on.:lol:

Ixion
14th October 2009, 18:32
A little bird has whispered to me, that one of the prime movers behind tehse increases has been our dear friends the AA. I'd believe that.

F'instance



What you’ve got here is a recognition that motorcycling, in terms of ACC, is a very high risk, and the injuries are severe because you are exposed on a motorcycle,” says Mike Noon from the Automobile Association.


Maybe a suitable target for protest?

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 18:38
I'm Sorted.

Just finished tapping a power point out of the back of my mains distribution board to feed my house heating. That'll save me $500 a year. Problem solved.

Sometimes you have to fight crime with crime!

Hey Dafe, I must live up the hill from you.
Drop round and wire me up bro ;)

Del Fuego
14th October 2009, 18:39
OK I only managed to get through about half the million pages but to my eyes it looks like this:

Bikers break themselves, user pays would suggest that the new fees (or higher fees) are needed to cover the patchup costs.

I am not for the price hike however I would argue that (assuming a normal 1 bike 1 car type scenario) private health/accident insurance would still be more expensive than the ACC levies.

HOWEVER, given the benefit to society that bikes produce, including traffic, parking etc etc (as an aside was at a large corporate HQ today, there must have been HUNDREDS) of bikes and scooters there) You can imagine the gridlock if every single biker (scoots included) said fuck it and just drove cars everywhere. No parking, no travelling, buses blocked, you name it!

The advantage to the economy and life in general is surely worth a couple bucks subsidy from each car driver surely?

Im down with a protest... should be used to put across the point of what would happen if all those bikers grabbed a car each and publicised as such...

jamiey
14th October 2009, 18:39
Power to the People

tigertim20
14th October 2009, 18:39
Done. Go on every one DO IT!!!

I have too just now

How many random stops are the Highway Patrol going to have to do once this starts happening? I bet three an hour is going to tripled or quadrupled and the fines will have to go up to pay for the printing of more ticket books.
The sad truth is the coppers on the road are gonna be firmly instructed by the Schutzstaffel in Wellington to be more active in randomly stopping motorcycles for "safety" checks -as we all know the focus for the Highway Patrol and all Police on the roads is on Safety and I am absolutely sure that my bike is so much safer when I have lightened the load on the suspension and steering by having an empty wallet. This is probably going to have a long term effect of reducing my carbon footprint as I wont have to carry all that evil money around.
to do so would be counter intuitive. fines go to the courts, not ACC. ticket us heaps, gee sorry, now we REALLY cant pay rego, cos you fined us too much, and ACC goes up in flames, which they dont want.

Its fucking bullshit. I for one will be riding with a WOF and reg on hold permanently. I refuse to fucking pay that shit.

Thaeos
14th October 2009, 18:41
One thing that doesn't make any sense is that they are CURRENTLY collecting more in levies than what they are paying out ... so why the need for any increase in the first place ???

HungusMaximist
14th October 2009, 18:42
Start pedalling bitches!

Pedal power! And you get fit along the way.

Dafe
14th October 2009, 18:42
Suddenly - I don't feel so bad about stealing that computer mouse from ACC. :headbang:

monkeymcbean
14th October 2009, 18:44
649cc. Mental.

I'll rego the bike for a year before it comes into effect,
after that I'll either deregister it, or sell it.Fuck you ACC.

Thats right, roll over.

Bangbug
14th October 2009, 18:45
Suddenly - I no longer feel bad about stealing that computer mouse from ACC. :headbang:

and I don't feel bad about the acc receptionist i have under the valiant in the back yard

Dodgyiti
14th October 2009, 18:46
33 pages in this thread so far.
Phew, took me an hour:o

If only it could be constructed in a direction that would serve some purpose towards legal protest be it in person or submissions to ACC.

Sucks for multiple bike owners
Sucks for classic and vintage bike owners
Sucks if you recently had a bike accident that was not your fault
Sucks for bike industry workers
Sucks for the environment

Sucks for me:(

But that does not mean I will bend over and take it, already composed and sent a lovely submission, await the protest action. Let's hope BRONZ are up to being leaders and organisers in this.

dmc
14th October 2009, 18:47
OK I only managed to get through about half the million pages but to my eyes it looks like this:

Bikers break themselves, user pays would suggest that the new fees (or higher fees) are needed to cover the patchup costs.

I am not for the price hike however I would argue that (assuming a normal 1 bike 1 car type scenario) private health/accident insurance would still be more expensive than the ACC levies.

HOWEVER, given the benefit to society that bikes produce, including traffic, parking etc etc (as an aside was at a large corporate HQ today, there must have been HUNDREDS) of bikes and scooters there) You can imagine the gridlock if every single biker (scoots included) said fuck it and just drove cars everywhere. No parking, no travelling, buses blocked, you name it!

The advantage to the economy and life in general is surely worth a couple bucks subsidy from each car driver surely?

Im down with a protest... should be used to put across the point of what would happen if all those bikers grabbed a car each and publicised as such...

Don't forget you can race your bike at the track or a mx track, play rugby or any other contact sport and not get charged, so because you own a car or 2 and a bike or 2 you have to pay for every other bugger in the country.

gunrunner
14th October 2009, 18:50
Im currently off on ACC at the moment having been thrown off the road by strong winds , should be back at work next week . Now im a very experienced rider and if the same thing happened again chances are would be same result . Not much damage to bike or me but a stress fracture all the same . As i ride a Vmax yes i will be hit but my bike is my hobby and have spent many hours getting it to the condition it is or was and i will be doing that again .
Accidents happen as i sure as hell didnt want to put it down but i did and this was on straight road , not much i could do when you have a road bike all of a sudden off road .
Now as the public or the News reports like it did tonight with those bikes scattered all over the road wasnt there a car involved i think we as riders get unfairly targeted when there is an accident . Now i do about 13000kms on mine per year i see alot of stupid shit from riders on the road . My point is complusory Private insurance . Punish the individual not others and leave rego charges etc alone . Now in my case having just come off my bike with no one else involved i would put my hand up guilty as charged i will except the increase but why should the next guy .
Some sort of private insurance for the person regardless of what he rides, drives or how many vehicles is the best way to go . Why are they only targeting riders . Havent the police issued the most speeding tickets ever , not to mention these turbo charged import cars now i used to own 1 and it would of kicked the arse of the 6 cylinder i now have .

The Government need to be fare on this instead of pointing the finger and taking the easiest option for them .

Pixie
14th October 2009, 18:50
A little bird has whispered to me, that one of the prime movers behind tehse increases has been our dear friends the AA. I'd believe that.

F'instance



Maybe a suitable target for protest?

If you are a motorcyclist and you still buy AA membership ,you are an idiot.
Vote with your wallet

BASS-TREBLE
14th October 2009, 18:52
My old mans been riding since he's been a teenager in Germany, where the road system is a little more, umm, sorted I'd say

Over there, big bikes pay less in insurance/ACC (to a point) etc because they are safer. Think about it.

Power to get outta shit, Bigger brakes, Bigger contact patch, More big bikes have ABS, More stable on the road.

If they had FACTS to back them up, it would be a different story.

I think we should mention that in our letters of complaints.

jamiey
14th October 2009, 18:53
500 posts in one afternoon, some kinda KB record perhaps????

chasio
14th October 2009, 18:54
My email sent to ACC and CC Key and chums (sample attached).

Remember if you email ACC to include the following or they'll probably ignore it:

Your submission must include:

* Your name

* Your address

* Your contact phone number(s)

By email:
consultation@acc.co.nz

BASS-TREBLE
14th October 2009, 18:55
500 posts in one afternoon, some kinda KB record perhaps????

Join in mate,
You're lucky with 600cc

yomikey
14th October 2009, 18:55
Perhaps we should all do the sensible and safe thing. We could all arrange to take our safe cars to work on the same day at the same time and then all just stop halfway there. Block evry road in and out of all our cities?

daniely
14th October 2009, 18:55
Honestly I can't help feelin' the hypocrisy. All this stuff about global warming and developing initiatives for more environmentally friendly transport, and now we have to pay up to more than 3 times as much as those idiots who drive a car on their own everyday!?!?!?!?

What would be fair is if they dropped our levy for what we're doing for the environment (which is of course why we all ride motorcycles ;) ), and upped the levys for the car drivers who are CAUSING the accidents, not asking the VICTIMS OF THE CAGERS STUPIDITY to pay more, for being the victim??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

What BS that the ACC levy for my GN250 is so much more than all those idiots with Skylines?