Nick Smith Auckland Nat meeting open to public

[drummer]

Monday 30 November: Public meeting with Hon Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment, Climate Change Issues and ACC, National MP for Nelson, 7.30pm at Royal Akarana Yacht Club, Okahu Bay. Auckland lets all be there. Please pm for some inside info about the meeting... remember its a PUBLIC meeting.. organised by Tamaki electorate amongst others and a branch chairman who has jokingly told me to get a car (I have two) is interviewing him... lets flood this meeting folks!

Peter

[BMWST?]

be inteesting to ask Mr Smith how he can reconcile pricing motorcycles off the road with other potfolios of climate change and the enviroment

[drummer]

be inteesting to ask Mr Smith how he can reconcile pricing motorcycles off the road with other potfolios of climate change and the enviroment
Hi BM!

It sure will be... I just hope it remains peaceful..

Cheers Peter

[Zapf]

Looks interesting. I will be there and bring a few bodies along.

[Reckless]

Monday 30 November: Public meeting with Hon Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment, Climate Change Issues and ACC, National MP for Nelson, 7.30pm at Royal Akarana Yacht Club, Okahu Bay. Auckland lets all be there. Please pm for some inside info about the meeting... remember its a PUBLIC meeting.. organised by Tamaki electorate amongst others and a branch chairman who has jokingly told me to get a car (I have two) is interviewing him... lets flood this meeting folks!

Peter

Sounds like it could be our next organised ride Aye! Where's that man from Bronze?? Ixion? LOL!!

[drummer]

Great stuff.. see you all there.. spread the word!

[NONONO]

I'm in for this, lots of noise....

[drummer]

Hey there nonono and others

Inside the meeting we need to be a little reserved.. that is until question time.. then we let him have it ALL guns blazing. I have been told that if there is just mass noise and booing then Smith will walk out... you may like to spread that news to everyone.. Smith is running scared at the moment... he is under HUGE pressure... we need to break his will and come down on him very hard. We also need to absolutely annoy and disrupt any other non-ACC Nat meeting that they hold over the next few weeks.. I will keep you posted.. The Smith meeting is going to be very useful if we do two things... 1) Inside the hall we are quiet(ish) and then forthright and probing in our questions 2) We have media there.

The ones to really target and put extreme (legal at ALL times) ) pressure on are the party hacks.. the senseless yes men and some weak willed women who run the Nats in Tamaki and other electorates. This one is promoted by Tamaki electorate which has Allan Peachey a fairly new Nat man for its rep... The party organization is full of very weak very lame people who are just hugely ripe for the picking... Inside of the electorate are a lot of ambitious wannabe's.. plus the person who is "interviewing" Smith is a rather weak chairman of a local branch. He is very new to national politics and not equipped at all to lead a meeting with a large pressure group there.. he will be shocked I believe at the resentment... However the branch he leads is quite large in it's self.. and has a councillor and in it's past the Mayor in their ranks. Its one of the most blue ribboned branches and still has old Muldoon people amongst their committee.. they will be there. Allan Peachey needs pressure put on him as well here.. he is a weakest link around these parts... really nice guy but doesn't have the guts to speak for himself.. hes a party liner who will also be at the meeting.. He replied to my email re ACC with the party line. The chairman of the electorate is a rather silly individual who has a dream of being a Pollie.. he is very very easily annoyed which makes him exceptionally ineffectual.. again he will be at the meeting.

Lots of chances to show these idiotic yes-men party hacks what will happen to their lovely cupcake eating Chardonnay party meetings if these proposals go ahead.. we want all these type of people running fearful of their political futures..

I'll see you all there..

Peter

[Gubb]

Are you going to be getting people to join the National Party there too drummer?

[short-circuit]

Hey there nonono

Inside the meeting we need to be a little reserved.. that is until question time.. then we let him have it ALL guns blazing. I have been told that if there is just mass noise and booing then Smith will walk out... you may like to spread that news to everyone.. Smith is running scared at the moment... he is under HUGE pressure... we need to break his will and come down on him very hard. We also need to absolutely annoy and disrupt any meeting that the Nats hold over the next few weeks.. I will keep you posted.. The Smith meeting is going to be very useful if we do two things... 1) Inside the hall we are forthright and probing in our questions 2) We have media there.

The ones to target are the party hacks.. the senseless yes men who run the Nats in Tamaki and other electorates. This one is promoted by Tamaki electorate which has Allan Peachey a fairly new Nat man for its rep... The party organization full of very weak very lame people who are just hugely ripe for the picking... Inside of the electorate are a lot of ambitious wannabe's.. plus the person who is "interviewing" Smith is a rather weak chairman of a local branch. However the branch is quite large in it's self.. and has a councillor and in it's past the Mayor in their ranks. Allan Peachey needs pressure put on him as well here.. he is a weakest link around these parts... nice guy but doesn't have the guts to speak for himself.. hes a party liner who will also be at the meeting.. He replied to my email re ACC with the party line. The chairman of the electorate is a rather silly individual who has a dream of being a Pollie.. he is very very easily annoyed which makes him exceptionally ineffectual.. again he will be at the meeting.

Lots of chances to show these idiotic yes-men party hacks what will happen to their party if these proposals go ahead.. we want all these type of people running fearful of their political futures..

I'll see you all there..

Peter

This is no way to talk about your friends / colleagues in the party you worked for and still support.

Allen Peachey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Peachey) is not a new face. He's been involved with the Nats probably as long as you.

[scissorhands]

Are you going to be getting people to join the National Party there too drummer?

Does he imply that? I think Drummers idea is good....and your grammar is bad

[NONONO]

FFS.
Look, we just had all bikers, all walks of life gather to protest this thing.
I was pissed off by Drummers first post after the Bronz meeting and told him so.
But right here, right now he's making a lot of sense with this one, slack cutting time maybe?
And Drummer, dont you dare even trying to hand me a Tory sign up form cos Ive run out of bog roll.:mobile:

[drummer]

And Drummer, dont you dare even trying to hand me a Tory sign up form cos Ive run out of bog roll.:mobile: Dam and here I was thinking you'd be our newest Nat MP..:laugh: Thanks BTW

Peter

[drummer]

To all.. subject.. honesty! Short Circuit and other detractors.. READ This!!

For everyone's Info and to ensure no person is confused I will be open about my belief's. I was a member of the Nats for 6 years. A committee member for most of the time and a keen worker at last years election for the Nats.

Early this year I was ousted from our local branch. This was because I challenged some of the things John Key was doing. I didn't think all he did and is doing was what I expected. I was and am a little disappointed with the National led government and am NOT repeat NOT a current member. The people in the various branches around the eastern bays area are largely old party hacks or new fresh faced albeit weak individuals who gain strength through being around these agreeable old party hacks. I couldn't stand this whole regime and challenged them and as said some government decisions. I wont go into what I disagreed with because it isn't relevant to this thread.

Would I still vote Nat... probably... why? because they are in my opinion doing a better job than the last lot. Would I work for them as a volunteer again... NO WAY... not with this current decision making process and the decisions made thus far. Does that make me a Nat apologist? To some people it may... but i fail to see how... we all have some political view and most vote... I am open about my beliefs.

One advantage I have following the Nats even as a non-member is that I find out what happens with regards to meetings... and can inform others of such meetings, like the one with Nick Smith.

Am I pissed off at the Nats for this ACC proposed hike... well what do you think.. absolutely. However, I will remain close to what happens in the party because I believe the best way is to fight from a point where you can see your enemy.

I have been involved with politics for over 25 years both here and in Australia. I know what it's like to be a minority and a majority. I have been chairman at both branch, area and electoral levels. It has taught me a great deal about how to instigate change using politics. It is a very powerful weapon if used correctly.

I am passionate and angry about the proposed hike in ACC levies.. I am also angry at the party hacks who put their head in the sand.

Info about Allan Peachey may be useful for some... Allan joined the party before the failed Brash election. He replaced a totally ineffectual Clem Simich as MP for Tamaki. Allan became an MP in that election and this is his second term in office.

Tamaki is a blue ribbon seat for National. It has amongst others John Banks in its area. Plus a blue city council membership as well. The area has a large proportion of riders as the income level in the eastern bays area is high average. People generally own a bike as a recreational vehicle or a scooter for work commuting into Town Uni etc. Hence its a great area to protest in.

OK... thats my background. If anyone feels like slagging off anymore I will simply ignore them, we have a job to do as bikers and I am right behind the cause. I don't give a monkeys if you are far right far left or stuck in the centre... it doesn't matter... but use any connections you have in this campaign... it needs all it can muster.

Lets show Nick Smith and the Tamaki hacks that we can be smart enough to control this meeting whilst having a good meeting in our favour. Perhaps a loud outside protest could be held. Tamaki drive where the club resides and the meeting is to be held is a main road... a few hundred bikers with signs outside the venue whilst a hundred or so inside would be a great combination.. Both sides of Tamaki drive could be occupied.

Over to you... remember... people who just want to stir or persist in stupid comments will be ignored and I advise other people concerned about the issue to do the same... we don't need stupid derogatory remarks here... just good ideas!

regards

Peter Chatteris

[short-circuit]

To all.. subject.. honesty! Short Circuit and other detractors.. READ This!!

For everyone's Info and to ensure no person is confused I will be open about my belief's. I was a member of the Nats for 6 years. A committee member for most of the time and a keen worker at last years election for the Nats.

Early this year I was ousted from our local branch. This was because I challenged some of the things John Key was doing. I didn't think all he did and is doing was what I expected. I was and am a little disappointed with the National led government and am NOT repeat NOT a current member. The people in the various branches around the eastern bays area are largely old party hacks or new fresh faced albeit weak individuals who gain strength through being around these agreeable old party hacks. I couldn't stand this whole regime and challenged them and as said some government decisions. I wont go into what I disagreed with because it isn't relevant to this thread.

Would I still vote Nat... probably... why? because they are in my opinion doing a better job than the last lot. Would I work for them as a volunteer again... NO WAY... not with this current decision making process and the decisions made thus far. Does that make me a Nat apologist? To some people it may... but i fail to see how... we all have some political view and most vote... I am open about my beliefs.

One advantage I have following the Nats even as a non-member is that I find out what happens with regards to meetings... and can inform others of such meetings, like the one with Nick Smith.

Am I pissed off at the Nats for this ACC proposed hike... well what do you think.. absolutely. However, I will remain close to what happens in the party because I believe the best way is to fight from a point where you can see your enemy.

I have been involved with politics for over 25 years both here and in Australia. I know what it's like to be a minority and a majority. I have been chairman at both branch, area and electoral levels. It has taught me a great deal about how to instigate change using politics. It is a very powerful weapon if used correctly.

I am passionate and angry about the proposed hike in ACC levies.. I am also angry at the party hacks who put their head in the sand.

Info about Allan Peachey may be useful for some... Allan joined the party before the failed Brash election. He replaced a totally ineffectual Clem Simich as MP for Tamaki. Allan became an MP in that election and this is his second term in office.

Tamaki is a blue ribbon seat for National. It has amongst others John Banks in its area. Plus a blue city council membership as well. The area has a large proportion of riders as the income level in the eastern bays area is high average. People generally own a bike as a recreational vehicle or a scooter for work commuting into Town Uni etc. Hence its a great area to protest in.

OK... thats my background. If anyone feels like slagging off anymore I will simply ignore them, we have a job to do as bikers and I am right behind the cause. I don't give a monkeys if you are far right far left or stuck in the centre... it doesn't matter... but use any connections you have in this campaign... it needs all it can muster.

Lets show Nick Smith and the Tamaki hacks that we can be smart enough to control this meeting whilst having a good meeting in our favour. Perhaps a loud outside protest could be held. Tamaki drive where the club resides and the meeting is to be held is a main road... a few hundred bikers with signs outside the venue whilst a hundred or so inside would be a great combination.. Both sides of Tamaki drive could be occupied.

Over to you... remember... people who just want to stir or persist in stupid comments will be ignored and I advise other people concerned about the issue to do the same... we don't need stupid derogatory remarks here... just good ideas!

regards

Peter Chatteris

You are blue under your leathers.

You support their general ideology - privatisation and user pays...both of which undermine the Woodhouse principles which underpin ACC.

You have actively contributed to the situation bikers find themselves in.

No one is deluded into thinking bikers can "fight this from the inside". I think we should be more worried about Blue coloured puppets like you infiltrating us and undermining our position

[scissorhands]

You are blue under your leathers.

You support their general ideology - privatisation and user pays...both of which undermine the Woodhouse principles which underpin ACC.

You have actively contributed to the situation bikers find themselves in.

No one is deluded into thinking bikers can "fight this from the inside". I think we should be more worried about Blue coloured puppets like you infiltrating us and undermining our position

Probably more than half KB members voted National, and actively contributed to this

Are they blue puppets too?

We all say stuff and do stuff that someone wont like, even dissing ourselves, in hindsight.

Please avoid fighting amongst ourselves, just because someone aint from our hood

This thread has degenerated from a good protest action to a petty squabble and personality clash

[blossomsowner]

regardless of the squabbles in this thread

I think going to the meeting and asking some pointed questions and not letting him bullshit around them would be very good.......needs a decent number of people to work though.

[kave]

I would be keen on attending this meeting. Giving Allan Peachey a hard time would be amusing as well. I once attended a pre-election debate with Allan Peachey as one of the participants. Prior to the debate I was planning on voting for National, but as Peachey appeared to be senile and suffering from borderline retardation I changed my vote, couldn't support a party that would put people with his obvious lack of facilities in power.

[The Joka]

After being bored by the sqwabbling...

What is happening is there a ride to this meeting, a couple of hundred would be good!

But if it is going to happen you need to start telling people now!

[BMWST?]

i think this would work at any level,and in some ways a low key(no pun uintended) would work best?.If someone appears independently to ask this question not afffilated with an organised group,wouldnt that be just as effective.It may appear to be "spreading" out from the "bikers" to joe public????

[Kiwi Graham]

Monday 30 November: Public meeting with Hon Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment, Climate Change Issues and ACC, National MP for Nelson, 7.30pm at Royal Akarana Yacht Club, Okahu Bay. Auckland lets all be there. Please pm for some inside info about the meeting... remember its a PUBLIC meeting.. organised by Tamaki electorate amongst others and a branch chairman who has jokingly told me to get a car (I have two) is interviewing him... lets flood this meeting folks!

Peter

This sounds like a plan.

Dont bite to SC's jibes stay on topic this has potential.

[short-circuit]

This sounds like a plan.

Dont bite to SS's jibes stay on topic this has potential.

They aint jibes - they are genuine concerns. Bummer has repeatedly used this site as a forum for promoting the national party and recruiting. It is exactly these arseholes who are dismantling ACC and it was always their intention - all throughout the time Bummer was still a member, the intention was to privatise it

[Subike]

who gives a flying fuck about who belongs to which block of toilets. Blue / Red
if this is an oppotunity to cause problems for the goverment, then it should be done for that reason only.
If push comes to shove,
why the fuck did all you moaners sit back and do nothing the last time our leveys went up under the labour government.
I guess if it was labour making the changes now, the the OP would be a fucking hero!
Get over the squabling.
Just get on ya bike, ride to the meeting wait till the appropriate time and stick it to em.
If we argue over every reasonable idea that enters this site,
then we may as well fuck off home stick our bikes in the trash can and kiss our freedom goodbye
There will always be different political views on KB. fucken hell
did 6000 bikers ride to welly for nothing?
From the bickering in this thread it sure sounds like it

[drummer]

To those people taking this seriously... great stuff.. SS I can't see your posts and really don't care... but it seems you are annoying all others here... get the msg Bro...

OK... heres what I believe would be the best.. an organised ride to the venue... protests outside the venue and a limited number... maybe up to 50 inside. We dominate question time and ensure the media is there. This is perhaps the only chance to question Smith re the levies.. if you want co-ordination please email me or pm me... I'll assist...

Lets show strength and unity... and come on SS drop the trolls... its wearing thin... lets be togeather about this..

Peter

[James Deuce]

Purely from a personal perspective, I can't see what getting alongside National MPs is going to achieve. Mr Foss has either been selected as the sacrificial lamb to try and make National look a little less unfriendly to motorcycling, or he's seriously deluded in thinking that the National Party will tolerate a National MP dallying with a group that they've deliberately singled out to keep the signal to noise ratio high while legislation governing the setting of ACC levies is changed to facilitate the creation of further ACC "account" related levies, with the provision to raise them without consultation.

Let's see, we'll start with the recreation account. A recreation levy applied to sporting goods, from fishing tackle to kid's football boots to horse floats. Then the Recreation Account gets sold to an Australian Insurance corporation as a profitable business. Sports clubs get a further administrative burden in having to extract ACC payments from club members, playing and non-playing.

Creating a competitive Insurance market out of a compensation scheme is hardly Cricket, especially when the players and spectators get priced out of the game, and NZ's balance of payments takes a further hit as our money gets shipped to Australia.

I take it seriously alright. Seriously enough to know that sometimes you simply shouldn't try to keep your enemy close. To do so lends him a legitimacy he hasn't earned in the past, but wants to leverage on to improve his public standing and get back in the game.

It is a game to people like this chap. Everything is. The very core of this man's belief system is that if you aren't capable of competing at an arbitrary level established for his benefit then you are worthless.

Anything this man organises is for his benefit, he lacks the capacity for truly altruistic action.

[short-circuit]

Purely from a personal perspective, I can't see what getting alongside National MPs is going to achieve. Mr Foss has either been selected as the sacrificial lamb to try and make National look a little less unfriendly to motorcycling, or he's seriously deluded in thinking that the National Party will tolerate a National MP dallying with a group that they've deliberately singled out to keep the signal to noise ratio high while legislation governing the setting of ACC levies is changed to facilitate the creation of further ACC "account" related levies, with the provision to raise them without consultation.

Let's see, we'll start with the recreation account. A recreation levy applied to sporting goods, from fishing tackle to kid's football boots to horse floats. Then the Recreation Account gets sold to an Australian Insurance corporation as a profitable business. Sports clubs get a further administrative burden in having to extract ACC payments from club members, playing and non-playing.

Creating a competitive Insurance market out of a compensation scheme is hardly Cricket, especially when the players and spectators get priced out of the game, and NZ's balance of payments takes a further hit as our money gets shipped to Australia.

I take it seriously alright. Seriously enough to know that sometimes you simply shouldn't try to keep your enemy close. To do so lends him a legitimacy he hasn't earned in the past, but wants to leverage on to improve his public standing and get back in the game.

It is a game to people like this chap. Everything is. The very core of this man's belief system is that if you aren't capable of competing at an arbitrary level established for his benefit then you are worthless.

Anything this man organises is for his benefit, he lacks the capacity for truly altruistic action.

Thank you JD - wonderfully put

[NONONO]

Sorry, get alongside the National Party? WTF?...
The point, as I see it, is to go along to show dissent, to protest the ACC levies, to beard the bear in it's own lair.
Smith is in Auckland, addressing an OPEN meeting. What an opportunity.
Bullshit, Bullshit!!!!

[James Deuce]

Sorry, get alongside the National Party? WTF?...
The point, as I see it, is to go along to show dissent, to protest the ACC levies, to beard the bear in it's own lair.
Smith is in Auckland, addressing an OPEN meeting. What an opportunity.
Bullshit, Bullshit!!!!

Be careful who you follow.

[NONONO]

Be careful who you follow.

Thanks for your concern, but big enough and ugly enough to look after my self.
Why would you not go?
I would be disgusted if I attended only to see a load of sycophants politely questioning Smith.
Lets go and give him the razzle.

[Winston001]

Politicians do not like pressure and being put on the spot publicly. So attending this meeting and asking some cutting questions is a sound idea. My only concern is not enough people will go - the meeting with Paula Bennett only had 6 bikers. :crazy:

Grab the chance while you can, at this and other meetings. The more noise we make the more notice both the media and the pollies will take.

[Dean]

Picture this:

The '30 second spray and walk away' asian guy dressed up in corset and panites with a catwoman leather mask and whip sent into Nick Smiths office and dances to the song Love Game by Lady Gaga:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dChLeNbyNeY

"lets pray a ruv game pray a ruv game do you wan ruv or fame

[Clean_up]

if im not there, would someone kindly ask DICK SHIT ah hem, i meant nick smith, what if any proposals the ACC board has made in regard to raising car levies and how much they will be? Maybe we should try to get the general public to realise that this bill will allow ALL levies to be increased, and if we can get them saying it on camera people might start to think "oh those dirty smelly leatherclad bikers have a point"

[Lucyloo]

This sounds like a plan.

Dont bite to SC's jibes stay on topic this has potential.

I agree - this certainly has potential and I will attend if I can - my partner also. Any opportunity to keep the presure up has to be good surely?!
L.

[drummer]

Picture this:

The '30 second spray and walk away' asian guy dressed up in corset and panites with a catwoman leather mask and whip sent into Nick Smiths office and dances to the song Love Game by Lady Gaga:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dChLeNbyNeY

"lets pray a ruv game pray a ruv game do you wan ruv or fame

Interesting!

[drummer]

if im not there, would someone kindly ask DICK SHIT ah hem, i meant nick smith, what if any proposals the ACC board has made in regard to raising car levies and how much they will be? Maybe we should try to get the general public to realise that this bill will allow ALL levies to be increased, and if we can get them saying it on camera people might start to think "oh those dirty smelly leatherclad bikers have a point"

Good idea... will note the sentiment of the question and see what we can do... the bill should allow across the board increases at a level rate under the ACC policy of no blame..

Cheers Peter

PS... the jibes that are thrown by people like SS are unnecessary and people are right I shouldn't bite back.. I have them on my ignore list but see the posts in others quotes... so please.. don't quote JD or SS... I suspect quite a few people have them on ignore... that can only be good for the overall unity we are discussing here.. cheers guys and girls!

[Pixie]

Sorry, get alongside the National Party? WTF?...
The point, as I see it, is to go along to show dissent, to protest the ACC levies, to beard the bear in it's own lair.
Smith is in Auckland, addressing an OPEN meeting. What an opportunity.
Bullshit, Bullshit!!!!

We would have a definite effect,if we attended every public National Party meeting and did nothing other than sit quietly at the back of the room.
They would be very nervous,it would be like having a big mean looking bear in your living room every night.

[Winston001]

We would have a definite effect,if we attended every public National Party meeting and did nothing other than sit quietly at the back of the room.
They would be very nervous,it would be like having a big mean looking bear in your living room every night.

Exactly. :2thumbsup:

[Ixion]

We would have a definite effect,if we attended every public National Party meeting and did nothing other than sit quietly at the back of the room.
They would be very nervous,it would be like having a big mean looking bear in your living room every night.

File in one by one, in total silence. Black leather de rigeur.

One third line up at the left rear of the hall along the wall. One third at right rear ditto. One third in rank along the back wall.

All in silence. Ignore any welcome parties.

Once everybody is lined up , the leader, in the rear centre conspicuously points out an doors and such like (all in silence) to the others.

Round about now a gibbering MC will be on the phone to the cops.

[drummer]

Round about now a gibbering MC will be on the phone to the cops. I know the MC.. he's a mate but quite worried about what the meeting will be like. He also knows our friendship is not on the line and that I will do anything to stop Smith and his cronies from doing the wrong thing by us. To set the record straight again, I know him because of other reasons from politics.. hes a nice guy but a tad weak.

Peter

[MacD]

We could just ask him where his 5000 motorcycle claims for 2008 figure came from that he used in Parliament in an answer to a patsy question!?

And why he can't tell a loss from a liability unlike every other NZer with a mortgage!?

[Reckless]

Someone could bring a video camera so what he says can be recorded.

[drummer]

Someone could bring a video camera so what he says can be recorded.Good idea... plus the media MUST be there.. I've got a video if u like

Peter

[peasea]

File in one by one, in total silence. Black leather de rigeur.

One third line up at the left rear of the hall along the wall. One third at right rear ditto. One third in rank along the back wall.

All in silence. Ignore any welcome parties.

Once everybody is lined up , the leader, in the rear centre conspicuously points out an doors and such like (all in silence) to the others.

Round about now a gibbering MC will be on the phone to the cops.

Now there's a game plan I can relate to.
Front up and shut up.

Probably more effective than chucking eggs etc.

[scissorhands]

I know the MC.. he's a mate but quite worried about what the meeting will be like. He also knows our friendship is not on the line and that I will do anything to stop Smith and his cronies from doing the wrong thing by us. To set the record straight again, I know him because of other reasons from politics.. hes a nice guy but a tad weak.

Peter

So I take it...weakness is not your style?

[NONONO]

I'll go to your Tory gathering and say hi.

Why don't you come to Mission Bay this Sunday for brunch and a flat white? It's practically your hood

Fight, fight, fight.
For Fucks Sake..
As for the meeting. We know these forums are monitored, so why try and put up strategies here?
I will attend, and do whatever I feel like doing.
As for "Attending With Menace", if you want to turn up and politely allow Mr Smith the opportunity to spout more propaganda about ACC (which he will simply because we will be there), fine. I'm sure he will appreciate the audience.

[davereid]

The meeting is about climate change, so it is relevant to us as bikers.

It particularly gives us an edge with the concept of "greater good", the one the DomPost so lovingly attibuted to mountain bikers as they get fit.

I would certainly be asking Mr. Smith how he reconciles the "public good" of a low emissions motorcycle with an ACC levy 3-times what he sticks on a Hummer.

Id also make sure all the delegates and attendees really appreciated a bit of good old fashioned exercise.

As all the car parks for half a km were full of motorcycles.

Or better - cars with a sign - "I'm doing my bit for Climate Change, cos Nick Smith took my motorcycle"

[Ixion]

I'm not clear why thre is such argument here.

The Nickster is the enemy. Right ?

He's going to be publicly accessible, at a *National* party meeting . Right ?

So, it's a legitimate target.

And, it's about climate and environmental change stuff. So, we have a legitimate interest.

"Dr Smith , is it not hypocritical for you to pretend an environmental concern , while at the same time you are trying to tax motorcycles, with their significant environmental benefits, off the road ? If you really cared about the environment you'd have come here tonight on a motorcycle instead of in a limousine. Two tons of unnecessary wasteful environmentally hostile steel to carry one person. How can you justify that Dr Smith?"

"Blah blah balh weasel weasel weasel "

"BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT"

Meeting breaks up.

Done.

See you there.

[Squiggles]

I cant remember but didnt he recognise us as a more sustainable form of transport or something to that effect either in his office or just after he came out?

[short-circuit]

I'm not clear why thre is such argument here.

The Nickster is the enemy. Right ?


No! That's where I think people are missing the point. The National Party (and their supporters) are the enemy.

The intention to privatise ACC was quite overt prior to the last election, what has happened is no surprise at all.

Peter as a member knew damn fine well what he was supporting and he will continue to promote a pro-big business and anti-people (biker) party regardless.

ACC may be an important issue for bikers...it's also an important issue for sexual abuse victims who now (aside from the existing barriers) have to be diagnosed with an axis one mental health diagnosis to even be considered for treatment / specialised support.

I really hope people are enjoying their $12 a week tax cut

[scissorhands]

No! That's where I think people are missing the point. The National Party (and their supporters) are the enemy.

The intention to privatise ACC was quite overt prior to the last election, what has happened is no surprise at all.

Peter as a member knew damn fine well what he was supporting and he will continue to promote a pro-big business and anti-people (biker) party regardless.

ACC may be an important issue for bikers...it's also an important issue for sexual abuse victims who now (aside from the existing barriers) have to be diagnosed with an axis one mental health diagnosis to even be considered for treatment / specialised support.

I really hope people are enjoying their $12 a week tax cut

Many of us here voted National. I didnt, but I respect what others do even if I dont agree with it, as I do things others dont like. I think for the sake of solidarity, unity and strength of purpose, we should agree to disagree for the sake of our cause and for the success of this protest action.

The red vrs blue punch up could be postponed to a later date? Cmon, the bigger man is the one that lets it go, for the common good.

Imagine how it would look if opposing political party bikes got into a scrap with the media present.

DONT FUCK IT UP!

[sinned]

No! That's where I think people are missing the point. The National Party (and their supporters) are the enemy.

The intention to privatise ACC was quite overt prior to the last election, what has happened is no surprise at all.


Are you telling me that close to half the NZ population 'are the enemy'? And, that will include a significant proportion of motorcyclists who will not support protest which is tainted pink.

If you want to maintain broad support for the campaign then keep the eye on the ball and minimize politicking.

[short-circuit]

Are you telling me that close to half the NZ population 'are the enemy'? And, that will include a significant proportion of motorcyclists who will not support protest which is tainted pink.

If you want to maintain broad support for the campaign then keep the eye on the ball and minimize politicking.

Sorry - but the issue is political like it or lump it.

And no, I don't necessarily consider every National voter to be the enemy. Some (like Peter / Bummer) are - as they know exactly what National represents. Others are simply stupid / politically ignorant and they are redeemable

[ManDownUnder]

be inteesting to ask Mr Smith how he can reconcile pricing motorcycles off the road with other potfolios of climate change and the enviroment

Form an orderly line on the left - I bike per car park. Fill the carpark.

[PhantasmNZ]

ok... i see this thread has degraded some.

anyone know the latest real info about this meeting?

[ManDownUnder]

ok... i see this thread has degraded some.

anyone know the latest real info about this meeting?

good call -get it back on topic.

I'm all for one bike per carpark still... whereever he goes maybe - every public event

[drummer]

So I take it...weakness is not your style?

Intersting question.. I've had to be strong most of my life.. for various reasons... so i think I am a person of strength rather than a strong person

Peter

[drummer]

Many of us here voted National. I didnt, but I respect what others do even if I dont agree with it, as I do things others dont like. I think for the sake of solidarity, unity and strength of purpose, we should agree to disagree for the sake of our cause and for the success of this protest action.

The red vrs blue punch up could be postponed to a later date? Cmon, the bigger man is the one that lets it go, for the common good.

Imagine how it would look if opposing political party bikes got into a scrap with the media present.

DONT FUCK IT UP!
Absolutely agree.. this IS NOT about red vs blue its about the ACC and what the government is going to do with their recommendations.. plain and simple

Peter

[NONONO]

Hey Drummer,
Couple of things.
If I were organizing this meeting, and had been monitoring this site, I would have moved the meeting by now, or set up some contingency plans. Any info available?
Also, how are you managing on the inside? The local Nats must have your number and be giving you a hard time, or are they really just a bunch of fluffy, wonderful people who forgive and forget?
Anyway, are we riding down in a bunch (if so when and where) or getting there as we can?

[Pixie]

Sorry - but the issue is political like it or lump it.

And no, I don't necessarily consider every National voter to be the enemy. Some (like Peter / Bummer) are - as they know exactly what National represents. Others are simply stupid / politically ignorant and they are redeemable

What an arrogant prick!:oi-grr:

[Ozzie]

I think get there as you can, as soon as you can for the most part. Fill all car parks with bikes.

Would also be nice to give him a little motor cade, bikes all around him in his limo on the way to the event.

Does anyone know where he is coming from, what time and the like?

Would be a real shame if a bunch of learners were in the way, taking it slow, and a couple of alternate routes were blocked with broken down cars.

[drummer]

Hey Drummer,
Couple of things.
If I were organizing this meeting, and had been monitoring this site, I would have moved the meeting by now, or set up some contingency plans. Any info available?
Also, how are you managing on the inside? The local Nats must have your number and be giving you a hard time, or are they really just a bunch of fluffy, wonderful people who forgive and forget?
Anyway, are we riding down in a bunch (if so when and where) or getting there as we can?

All good questions

The Nats know there is going to be a protest... but they haven't the intelligence to monitor this site... To understand this area is to understand utter complacency. Not fluffy wonderful people.. although some are fluffy LOL... some are really nice people and some are right regular political animals who strive their hardest to get to the top. The area chairman is one such bloke.. a go-getter who has never really faced difficult times... he is essentially the guy in control... I very much doubt he would have faced something like this before. One thing... although we are using politics to get our point across... we are protesting the government not the National party as such... if we look as though it is party politics then we become fragmented... don't forget... the majority of people in this country like the Nats and more than some of us here voted for them... all governments of all colours make mistakes and this current ACC debacle is definitely one that John Key and the government is heading for disaster over.

The meeting CAN'T be moved... well not easily... its a public meeting with flyers gone out and email newsletters mentioning it even last week. However I will keep my ears open for any changes. As far as inside info goes, they tossed me out of the party committee. after I disagreed with some policies so I milk people I know for info and receive the newsletters etc still. I know all the Nat committee in the area and some are wary of me whilst some just don't like me and others are fine. They are finding out that I am more vocal now on the outside than I ever was on the inside.

I chatted to the branch chairman who is the MC recently. He is a good bloke who means well but as said before has political weakness. I told him there would be protests... and that was way before the idea was discussed here... I told him to expect opposition from bikers about ACC and thats when he told me about the Smith meeting. I was told that Smith would walk out if there was either violence or continual interruptions or shouting etc.. In my way of thinking if the media is there and this is important... IF Smith walks out then we need to have a reception committee of strong NON VIOLENT protestors waiting for him... not only would the walking out look very weak it would put him right in the hands of the very people he wants to tax out of existence.

I continually emphasize NON VIOLENCE and UNITY.. (hear that Short Circuit!).. this is essential if we want to get our point across. Question time is paramount to our success... we all need to have written intelligent questions about not only his ACC portfolio but also climate change etc and the impact bikes have on reducing greenhouse emissions. If all we do is take over question time with ACC arguments we will come across as disruptive to the other people at the meeting. I believe we should make our protest outside before and after the meeting and as people leave... a selected few.. maybe up to 50 or so should be inside... if the noise is coming from the outside then Smith can't justifiably leave the meeting. As the club is on Tamaki drive... protests should be both sides.. and the point made that Smith is in the hall speaking...

As for riding down... I think we should have a meeting point but ride separately... too hard to organise and it would look too menacing to the other people... one thing we don't want to do is alienate other non riders.. we want them on our side... leaflets etc would be great to hand to other meeting goers.

One thing all political parties have is "rosettes" which are basically big cloth badges with the party name on it... if we could get some anti ACC rosettes made it would be quite effective. Tee shirts are also a must, and have already been printed as far as I am aware.

I will research some more and post arrangements here early next week.

Hope this assists.. I would love to see a minimum of 250 there... can we do it?

PM me for my phone number..

Peter

[drummer]

I think get there as you can, as soon as you can for the most part. Fill all car parks with bikes.

Would also be nice to give him a little motor cade, bikes all around him in his limo on the way to the event.

Does anyone know where he is coming from, what time and the like?

Would be a real shame if a bunch of learners were in the way, taking it slow, and a couple of alternate routes were blocked with broken down cars.

I love the idea of a motorcade.. but after the meeting... and then protests outside where he is staying. Unsure as to where he is staying or coming from but probably from the airport. If I probed into that it maybe a little too obvious.

We want him at the meeting... lets wait till the meeting finishes before we block his way.

Ozzie... could you ensure people know about this through twitter and co-ordinate thru that media.. I will contact the various media outlets next week...

Peter

[drummer]

What an arrogant prick!:oi-grr:

yeah Pixie... just ignore him.. I do now and if we all do.. then he doesn't get any say.. I am concerned about him turning up at the meeting so those of you who know this character please.. keep him under control! I want to confront him in time and actually find out what he is on about but this meeting or any other ACC related event is NOT the time.

Peter

[Mr Merde]

Look at the map

approx 6 or 7 strategically placed bikes with pillions and mobiles could cover every exit route from this road.

Whatever route he takes he gets spotted and everyone else informed.

Same tactics used by police when conducting a pursuit.

This part of Auckland isnt that big of an area to cover.

[Ixion]

I think get there as you can, as soon as you can for the most part. Fill all car parks with bikes.

Would also be nice to give him a little motor cade, bikes all around him in his limo on the way to the event.

Does anyone know where he is coming from, what time and the like?

Would be a real shame if a bunch of learners were in the way, taking it slow, and a couple of alternate routes were blocked with broken down cars.


There's a LOT if parking there, and it's irregular - like not all marked spaces. Because of trailers and such like. Doubt we'd be able to fill it all, at best make them walk a bit further.

[twotyred]

All good questions

The Nats know there is going to be a protest... but they haven't the intelligence to monitor this site...

Peter

sorry,don't buy this for a second, The press, Pollies(both sides) the Police, ACC and I would expect,the SIS will all be monitoring this site far more at the moment than they usually do.

[short-circuit]

yeah Pixie... just ignore him.. I do now and if we all do.. then he doesn't get any say.. I am concerned about him turning up at the meeting so those of you who know this character please.. keep him under control! I want to confront him in time and actually find out what he is on about but this meeting or any other ACC related event is NOT the time.

Peter

Bummer why don't you confront me now publically instead of hiding behind the excuse that you put me on your ignore list.

It's you that has the ambigious position - a dyed in the wool Tory who voted for the these policies who is now acting like it's a bolt out of the blue

[drummer]

sorry,don't buy this for a second, The press, Pollies(both sides) the Police, ACC and I would expect,the SIS will all be monitoring this site far more at the moment than they usually do.
We are talking local branches... possibly the police may be monitoring it but they would expect a protest at the meeting.. and I have no doubt that they will be there... Our job isn't about violence or illegal activities. It is about a (I hope) a peaceful intelligent protest and discussion with the man himself Nick Smith... I think most of us (SS I hope that also includes YOU) want the same thing.. to sway the government's view on this.. I don't give a flying monkey's if the police are there or if they are monitoring the site... actually I hope they are! We (largely) have kept this to a good discussion about an important meeting. The police are welcome as far as I am concerned... we will need them if there's any idiots trying to go overboard... again... I plead.. lets keep this NON-VIOLENT and an intelligent protest and lets have decent people asking great probing questions in the meeting... hopefully getting more of the public ONSIDE not offside!

The question originally asked was if the meeting would be moved... I can assure you it wouldn't be... it could be stopped if the police or the government thought that threats were being made... and they are not...

So hence the statement... at local branch level the party is quite disorganised... and hence I am pretty sure they won't have any idea of the size of the protest.. even if they do, they won't be equipped or have the right to eject peaceful protestors and attendees.

However I understand your sentiments and thank you for your opinion... this is what this thread should be about.. exchanging views and putting forward ideas for the night.. not about SS calling half of NZ enemies! That sort of talk WILL attract attention!

Anyhow.. take care

Peter

[short-circuit]

not about SS calling half of NZ enemies!

In your dreams Bummer - 1/3 is about it (at best) as far as conservative block is NZ and watch it dwindle as the population getting browner and more urban.

Now that First Past the Post has been scrapped, your goons will never govern alone again. It's a minority government in power in case you didn't notice.

[Ixion]

Can we find what flight the Nickster's arriving on?

[mashman]

Is he not arriving on the private ACC Lockheed!!

[NONONO]

Can we find what flight the Nickster's arriving on?

Over to you Drummer, any info?
An escort from your friendly local "Citizen Motorcyclists" to and from the airport would just be such a nice warm welcome to the City of Sales dontchafink?
As for your concerns that we will all act like peaceable tree hugging rate payers at the meeting, nope, sorry, no guarantees on that one.
I also don't believe the security services are ignoring us, or the Nats are so stupid as to ignore us.
Not doing anything illegal, but no free ride for Mr Nick on this, or any other opportunity I get either.

[Ozzie]

There's a LOT if parking there, and it's irregular - like not all marked spaces. Because of trailers and such like. Doubt we'd be able to fill it all, at best make them walk a bit further.

agreed, if not all, at least the closest ones

[NONONO]

Dont let this thread fall below the waterline before the event eh?

[short-circuit]

He's a bit evasive is old Peter - a bit like his leader (flip flop Key)

[drummer]

Dont let this thread fall below the waterline before the event eh?
Yep.. been working all weekend... I'll make some enquiries tomorrow about Smith's plans whilst in Akl

Peter

[NONONO]

Bump.
Sticky?

[short-circuit]

Sticky?

Nah I'd say more slimey

[drummer]

Bump.
Sticky?

OK for those who are just joining the thread

Here are the details as received today.. they are still the same and as far as I am aware there is no worries from the Nats about the protest.

Cheers Peter

Monday 30 November: Public meeting with Hon Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment,
Climate Change Issues and ACC, National MP for Nelson, 7.30pm at
Royal Akarana Yacht Club, Okahu Bay.

[short-circuit]

Public meeting with Hon Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment

Typo - should read Con Nick Smith

[Reckless]

haha we where only in Mission Bay yesterday LOL!!
They will be getting to expect us bikers at this rate!!

[Dodgyiti]

Does anyone know one of those portable coffee people?
Can we let them know I wanna coffee (and probably 40% of the other bikers) and they can make some $$ by showing up at 6.45pm
Also one of those hot dog and hot chippie vans would be good too, or who knows what pizza company can deliver to that place?
And if it's a nice evening I could go a Mr Whippy for desert:o
We can't be protesting on empty stomachs and this meeting is right about my tea time:weep:

[Voltaire]

Does anyone know one of those portable coffee people?
Can we let them know I wanna coffee (and probably 40% of the other bikers) and they can make some $$ by showing up at 6.45pm
Also one of those hot dog and hot chippie vans would be good too, or who knows what pizza company can deliver to that place?
And if it's a nice evening I could go a Mr Whippy for desert:o
We can't be protesting on empty stomachs and this meeting is right about my tea time:weep:

Toughen up, hold two buns next to your Guzzi and have an oil burger.....less fat than a Maccers...:girlfight:

[NONONO]

OK for those who are just joining the thread

Here are the details as received today.. they are still the same and as far as I am aware there is no worries from the Nats about the protest.

Cheers Peter

Monday 30 November: Public meeting with Hon Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment,
Climate Change Issues and ACC, National MP for Nelson, 7.30pm at
Royal Akarana Yacht Club, Okahu Bay.

Interesting,
so the meeting is now about climate change AND ACC?
The Minister for ACC will be in Auckland talking about ACC,,,STICKY!
No news on arrivals in Auckland or departures?

[drummer]

Interesting,
so the meeting is now about climate change AND ACC?
The Minister for ACC will be in Auckland talking about ACC,,,STICKY!
No news on arrivals in Auckland or departures?

hey there... the meeting I suspect will be about his portfolios however thats always been the case.. if you check the first notice and all notices I have posted on all websites the notice reads the same... I would also think the meeting will be steered the way that the majority want it to go... hopefully thats us. Don't forget the climate change portfolio is also a concern of ours... if bikes are taxed off the road, then there are more cars hence more greenhouse gases.. I don't believe there will be a lot of greenies there but it would be great to also have them on our side.

No news about arrivals... kinda hard to get that info but will look into it...

Thanks and regards

Peter

[Ixion]

Ah. For some reason I thought this was a meeting about environmental issues, which we would have to hi-jack . If it is a "meet the minister" meeting then ACC is a valid topic and we don't have to hi-jack at all. We can just put him on the spot.

Andf it's a minister meeting, not an electorate meeting (his electorate is Nelson), so our presence is as valid as anyone eleses (also, the Greens support us).

So lets drop a couple of hundred bikers , committed to the democratic process , on his head.

[NONONO]

Yup Drummer, you're right, completely missed the ACC bit. I also thought it was just regarding climate change.
Can someone link the theme tune to Dambusters? Don't know why but it just seems appropriate

[Ozzie]

Does anyone know one of those portable coffee people?
Can we let them know I wanna coffee (and probably 40% of the other bikers) and they can make some $$ by showing up at 6.45pm
Also one of those hot dog and hot chippie vans would be good too, or who knows what pizza company can deliver to that place?
And if it's a nice evening I could go a Mr Whippy for desert:o
We can't be protesting on empty stomachs and this meeting is right about my tea time:weep:

Hell Pizza has "Hell on Wheels", a mobile pizza van.

Could make some spin on Nicky boy going straight to hell.

[Ozzie]

Ah. For some reason I thought this was a meeting about environmental issues, which we would have to hi-jack . If it is a "meet the minister" meeting then ACC is a valid topic and we don't have to hi-jack at all. We can just put him on the spot.

Andf it's a minister meeting, not an electorate meeting (his electorate is Nelson), so our presence is as valid as anyone eleses (also, the Greens support us).

So lets drop a couple of hundred bikers , committed to the democratic process , on his head.

Might be worth pulling some wool......out from under him.

"So, Mr Minister, if the National Government is trying to covertly target middle to high income earners, in a user pays modelled ACC system focused on average accident costs. Would it not be more relevant to target them across the board, given average accident costs for mid to high income brackets are far higher than average CC rated costs, irrespective of mode of transport (motor cycle, bicycle, foot, car), due to the income supplement component of the costs. About time you called a spade a spade don't you think Mr Minister, and fess up to your move away from a traditional National support structure?"

[drummer]

Ah. For some reason I thought this was a meeting about environmental issues, which we would have to hi-jack . If it is a "meet the minister" meeting then ACC is a valid topic and we don't have to hi-jack at all. We can just put him on the spot.

Andf it's a minister meeting, not an electorate meeting (his electorate is Nelson), so our presence is as valid as anyone eleses (also, the Greens support us).

So lets drop a couple of hundred bikers , committed to the democratic process , on his head.
Its extremely valid for us to be there... again as a peaceful protest. I am worried about the attitude of a certain person on this thread and his behavour on the forum in general. I am genuinely concerned about Ian and his apparent hatred of all National supporters... does anyone here actually know him... all we need is for some person like Ian trying to fight all Nationals present... there are a lot of good honest people going to attend and we need to be straight down the line and trying to encompass others thereby gaining support.. please PM me urgently if you do know Ian and can assure me he is not as bad as he seems.. I'm not worried for me... I can more than hold my own... but for the meeting in general we do need to behave like reasonable people... agreed?...

Peter

[drummer]

Hell Pizza has "Hell on Wheels", a mobile pizza van..

Good idea...

Could you contact them.. give us an answer tomorrow... also we need some idea of numbers.... anyone?

Peter

[rob 0]

sounds like nick is calling

"bring it on you bikers"

[NONONO]

Good idea...

Could you contact them.. give us an answer tomorrow... also we need some idea of numbers.... anyone?

Peter

Me, that's 1.

[Ozzie]

Good idea...

Could you contact them.. give us an answer tomorrow... also we need some idea of numbers.... anyone?

Peter

Hate to be the party pooper, but I wouldn't know where to start, and am off over seas tomorrow until Saturday.

Can someone else pick this up?

I will be there on Monday tho, look for the dude wearing a suit, not riding a bike, being the concerned medium to high income National voter that wants some answers.

[drummer]

Hate to be the party pooper, but I wouldn't know where to start, and am off over seas tomorrow until Saturday.

Can someone else pick this up?

I will be there on Monday tho, look for the dude wearing a suit, not riding a bike, being the concerned medium to high income National voter that wants some answers.
good onya Ozzie.. have a good trip. I could ring them... but if anyone else could I'd appreciate it... I too will be in a car... why? Nasty car driver knocked me off the Buell and the other bikes are in storage... bloody pissed off.. the moron in the car has actually pleaded his case and got off with no evidence asked from me.. hence very hard to sue the young fella... typical bike accident.. or should I say car... U turn in front of me.. I'm only doing 50k but banged the car.. both elbows damaged and as a drummer/muso thats not great... the Buell is not badly damaged but still enough to put it off the road...

Peter

[scissorhands]

hahahaha this war between you 2 has been a hoot, great to see some spirit!

Oh and yeah i can vouch for Ian, he'll be alright

[drummer]

hahahaha this war between you 2 has been a hoot, great to see some spirit!

Oh and yeah i can vouch for Ian, he'll be alright
Ok.. thanks.. I have him on ignore, so don't see his posts but the ones I have seen have been threatening... ll it would take is for Ian to run wild and we would be a laughing stock... I'll leave it to you to keep Ian under control... frankly I don't want to know who he is at the meeting.. sometime after he and i will I suspect meet and most probably talk sensibly.. its so easy being tough behind the computer screen but another thing altogeather when face to face...

I don't see a war between Ian and myself.. I can't see what he says and won't respond to him anyhow... a war takes two.. I've buried my hatchet...

Thanks for the assurance..

peter

[drummer]

I'll give Ian one thing.. he is a tryer... I am resisting the temptation to peek.. but sorry mate... ignore is IGNORE!

I do give one little piece of advice Ian... any violence at the meeting by you will be dealt with... I believe all of us here agree with the rule that protests MUST be peaceful...

Peter

[Ixion]

I'll give Ian one thing.. he is a tryer... I am resisting the temptation to peek.. but sorry mate... ignore is IGNORE!

I do give one little piece of advice Ian... any violence at the meeting by you will be dealt with... I believe all of us here agree with the rule that protests MUST be peaceful...

Peter

Hm. Lawful, yes. Peaceful is a more variable quantity.

I don't think Mr Smith should expect this to be positive experience.

[NONONO]

Peaceful, Hmmm.
On a scale of 1 to 10, where the variable 1 equals Gandhi and the variable 10 corresponds to Attila the Hun, just where is the cut off point over which we must not step?

[drummer]

Peaceful, Hmmm.
On a scale of 1 to 10, where the variable 1 equals Gandhi and the variable 10 corresponds to Attila the Hun, just where is the cut off point over which we must not step?LOL!

I reckon you can figure that out... Ian.. you too? just don't want to see the public get offside...we need to have the great unwashed masses onside... not aginst us..

Peter

[drummer]

Peaceful, Hmmm.
On a scale of 1 to 10, where the variable 1 equals Gandhi and the variable 10 corresponds to Attila the Hun, just where is the cut off point over which we must not step?
Actually Gandhi wasn't exactly a pacifist!

Peter

[scissorhands]

LOL!

I reckon you can figure that out... Ian.. you too? just don't want to see the public get offside...we need to have the great unwashed masses onside... not aginst us..

Peter

Fuck the masses! They choose to watch that crap on TV

[candor]

You are blue under your leathers.

You support their general ideology - privatisation and user pays...both of which undermine the Woodhouse principles which underpin ACC.

You have actively contributed to the situation bikers find themselves in.

No one is deluded into thinking bikers can "fight this from the inside". I think we should be more worried about Blue coloured puppets like you infiltrating us and undermining our position

Paranormal propaganda. Privatisation agendas are not the driving force here.
The financial woes are REAL REAL REAL, and if not sorted by major restructuring round 1 now, & round 2 in 2013 ACC is DEAD DEAD DEAD.

I know this from private discussions with members of the sacked ignored ACC advisory board. ACC is not meeting legal obligations to involve itself with injury prevention ='s main cause of major account blowout.

Cause of this cause - nzta and Police told them to sod off - you Dear ACC may support anti speed and drink drive campaigns but otherwise SOD OFF.

Vive la difference betwixt ours and Canadas system. It deals with root causes, its advisory board was heeded when it said "skid proof bridges" bringing related claims down 80% and when it said "aging population so better double the size of traffic lights, rather than put revenue traps on them" - another success story.

Right now - the client base is not worth any private insurer taking on, it is too accident prone and would never be willing to pay realistic premiums.

The truth has not yet been exposed - is why this consult was rushed, is why board and now advisors sacked. ACC HAS BEEN GROSSLY NEGLIGENT - due to bullying by outside agencies (NZTA/Police - at Bollards behest - at World Banks behest). It is time to pay the piper and some big heads are about to roll. Labour has the most to worry about... unless it can see a path to blame the international consultant which puppeteered it into the crisis.
Luckily they tried their quick partial fix out on bikers who aren't going to take it.

[NONONO]

Actually Gandhi wasn't exactly a pacifist!

Peter

No he was a Gemini.
All adds to the Bump factor as it looks bloody impossible to get a STICKY for this thread eh?
I mean its only the minister for ACC, in Auckland, talking about ACC, at an open meeting, and we know about it!
Jeez......

[scissorhands]

Does seem like a bloody golden opportunity

[drummer]

No he was a Gemini.
All adds to the Bump factor as it looks bloody impossible to get a STICKY for this thread eh?
I mean its only the minister for ACC, in Auckland, talking about ACC, at an open meeting, and we know about it!
Jeez......
STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY dam STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY

Peter

ps STICKY STICKY STICKY STICKY

[drummer]

Paranormal propaganda. Privatisation agendas are not the driving force here.
The financial woes are REAL REAL REAL, and if not sorted by major restructuring round 1 now, & round 2 in 2013 ACC is DEAD DEAD DEAD.

Labour has the most to worry about... unless it can see a path to blame the international consultant which puppeteered it into the crisis.
Luckily they tried their quick partial fix out on bikers who aren't going to take it.

Well said!

[drummer]

Fuck the masses! They choose to watch that crap on TV

So its our job to show them the truth!

P

[candor]

Drummer - shouldn't you be at the meeting? Or is it tomorrow? 2 braindead to dbl check, have good excuse

[NONONO]

Well done that Mod.
Now I can get some sleep.

[drummer]

Drummer - shouldn't you be at the meeting? Or is it tomorrow? 2 braindead to dbl check, have good excuse

Next Monday!

P

[coolhuskys]

Interesting thread...I believe it is a great time to show solidarity here and have lots turn up but have one strong calm spokesperson asking questions with a strong silent presence from the rest of us...but we must remain eerily silent...wouldnt that have effect?? Any group can make alot of noise but it takes a well organised and together group to have control amongst its peers and stand there staring in silence...man it would scare me..Benefit is we get the right questions asked in an orderly manner that the media can easily report. Remember the All Blacks at Munster..Dan Carter found it hard to kick and concentrate with the silence because he wsn't expecting or use to it...maybe we can throw Mr Smith off his stride by doing the same...

[drummer]

Interesting thread...I believe it is a great time to show solidarity here and have lots turn up but have one strong calm spokesperson asking questions with a strong silent presence from the rest of us...but we must remain eerily silent...wouldnt that have effect?? Any group can make alot of noise but it takes a well organised and together group to have control amongst its peers and stand there staring in silence...man it would scare me..Benefit is we get the right questions asked in an orderly manner that the media can easily report. Remember the All Blacks at Munster..Dan Carter found it hard to kick and concentrate with the silence because he wsn't expecting or use to it...maybe we can throw Mr Smith off his stride by doing the same...

That would be the approach I'd take... but with protests outside as well. I've been to a lot of these type of meetings and know how they operate... believe me.. there are a lot of National people going to be there... but I'd estimate 50% of them would be able to be swayed our way... why? Plain and simple.. most are weak willed... its only a very few.. in this meeting's case.. probably 2 or three apart from Smith and another couple of MP's who will be there, that are strong enough to counter good probing questions... then the media takes note....

I remember going to a Roger Douglas ACT meeting last election.. I was able to totally dominate by asking serious simple questions about ACT's education policy.. the "great" (Their words) man was flustered and people saw the policy for what it was... rubbish!

I absolutely support the same type of approach... however... a decent legal loud protest outside is also valid as well...

Food for thought and thanks for your input.

Peter

[drummer]

One idea worthy of consideration... knowing the Nationals and their local leadership, a woman I believe should maybe start the questioning... and probably be a "spokesperson". Simply because most Nats there will be traditionalists.. they will least expect a woman to start things off... it could be quite powerful and set the tone.. any other thoughts?

Peter

[scissorhands]

Souinds like the quick tip to trick.

Should this woman be a stripper?

[drummer]

Souinds like the quick tip to trick.

Should this woman be a stripper?
I reckon she should strip Smith of his power in the meeting LOL... hmm a stripper mind ticking....

P

[NONONO]

Interesting thread...I believe it is a great time to show solidarity here and have lots turn up but have one strong calm spokesperson asking questions with a strong silent presence from the rest of us...but we must remain eerily silent...wouldnt that have effect?? Any group can make alot of noise but it takes a well organised and together group to have control amongst its peers and stand there staring in silence...man it would scare me..Benefit is we get the right questions asked in an orderly manner that the media can easily report. Remember the All Blacks at Munster..Dan Carter found it hard to kick and concentrate with the silence because he wsn't expecting or use to it...maybe we can throw Mr Smith off his stride by doing the same...

So we have returned to the "Attending With Menaces" idea.
Please tell me why we are so willing, almost desperate, to provide the Nats with
1/ A polite audience.
2/The opportunity to plan the meeting strategy around already known opposition plans?
I would like to remind you, and those monitoring these threads (Nats not interested enough to monitor this site, Yeah Right!), that no here has signed up to any regulating body, no behavioral code, no club rules and regulations.
This is an OPEN meeting, anyone may attend and anyone may voice an opinion in whatever way they see fit. They may behave in any manner their conscience, and the law, dictates.
It is possible to police ourselves too harshly, or allow others to act as the moral compass for our actions (cos then we can blame THEM when we don't achieve our aims).
I also like the idea of a stripper.
Just what is the legal definition of public nudity and how much would one have to wear to be considered not nude in a public meeting?

[drummer]

So we have returned to the "Attending With Menaces" idea.
Please tell me why we are so willing, almost desperate, to provide the Nats with
1/ A polite audience.
2/The opportunity to plan the meeting strategy around already known opposition plans?
This is an OPEN meeting, anyone may attend and anyone may voice an opinion in whatever way they see fit. They may behave in any manner their conscience, and the law, dictates.
It is possible to police ourselves too harshly, or allow others to act as the moral compass for our actions (cos then we can blame THEM when we don't achieve our aims).


OK.. heres what will happen if we are inside the hall interjecting all the time.. easy.. Smith will walk away from the meeting, people will be offside and we will look like the big bad bikers the piblic expects us to be... Think for a moment... we want Smith Inside the meeting and questions asked of him that will tie him in knots... whats the use if he walks out.. yes he will look stupid but ours is NOT an agenda of making Smith look stupid.. the idea in all the protests is to convince the government that the increases are unfair and unwarrented... we have a chance to do that on Monday... but ONLY with him in the meeting.

Peter

[Waxxa]

a compromise?

a delegation of people inside the meeting asking questions of Mr Myth (I like this name- thanks Mom) because Drummer is right in that to expose the 'Bullshit' around this privitisation of ACC, questions need to be asked and responded to in a public forum, which requires preparation and co-ordination.

Nothing wrong with a second group outside the meeting venue making a raucus as democracy allows...:rockon:

[Ixion]

Interesting thread...I believe it is a great time to show solidarity here and have lots turn up but have one strong calm spokesperson asking questions with a strong silent presence from the rest of us...but we must remain eerily silent...wouldnt that have effect?? Any group can make alot of noise but it takes a well organised and together group to have control amongst its peers and stand there staring in silence...man it would scare me..Benefit is we get the right questions asked in an orderly manner that the media can easily report. Remember the All Blacks at Munster..Dan Carter found it hard to kick and concentrate with the silence because he wsn't expecting or use to it...maybe we can throw Mr Smith off his stride by doing the same...

I see very grave danger in such an approach.

MKr Smith believes time is on his side. That we will soon become bored with the topic, calm down and pay up.

Going along to his meeting like good docile little sheeple, sitting quietly and obediently, will be read by him as "I'm winning. They've already calmed down, another few weeks and they'll have lost interest completely"

We need to make it very clear that we are STILL ANGRY. Doing the docile and biddable undermenschen gig isn't going to send that message.

As to questions, I( will say there is NO question we can ask that Mr Smith cannot easily refute, simply because the issue by now has resolved itself down to fundamentals. Either one accpets (as Mr Smith does) that ACC is a user pays insurance scheme, or one accepts that it is a no-fault social compensation scheme. And his response to all questions can be very very simple and totally destroy all our arguments. "You paid 12 million. You cost 62 million. Other people are subsidising you".

If Mr Smith closes the meeeting, so what? I'd call that victory , actually.



ours is NOT an agenda of making Smith look stupid.. the idea in all the protests is to convince the government that the increases are unfair and unwarrented


Yes it is . The stupider he looks the better.

And we have ZERO chance of ever convincing the government that the increases are unfair and unwarrented. Because on a user pays insurance model, they are fair and warrented.

Our chance is to convince the government that fair and warrented or not, the political price of forcing them through is too great.

As to convincing anyone in the audience ? No chance, these are party political hacks . They won't step out of line.

[Bodir]

Has anyone got a schedule of Nick Smith public appearances.

We should be attending all of them. Imagine what it has to feel like if you prepare yourself for a public meeting knowing that you will have to face the bikers again .... and again .... and again. Sooner or later that will show its toll on Nick.

It does not matter if he walks out each time. This will only damage his agenda and reputation.

This approach is easily expandable to other politicians.

They might not listen to you but they cannot ignore you either. And on a personal level this is boarder-lining on psychological warfare.

[Mr Merde]

Has anyone got a schedule of Nick Smith public appearances.

We should be attending all of them. Imagine what it has to feel like if you prepare yourself for a public meeting knowing that you will have to face the bikers again .... and again .... and again. Sooner or later that will show its toll on Nick.

It does not matter if he walks out each time. This will only damage his agenda and reputation.

This approach is easily expandable to other politicians.

They might not listen to you but they cannot ignore you either. And on a personal level this is boarder-lining on psychological warfare.

It is a war and gaining a psychological advantage is one method to effectively wage war.

What use are you, if those you oppose do not fear you?

Maybe not physically but mentally.

If your opposition is getting to the point that they are looking over their shoulder whenever they do something, because they are worried that you may be there or watching, then you are half way to winning the war.

The government thrives on misdirection, why shouldnt we?

[Ozzie]

Because on a user pays insurance model, they are fair and warrented.

I would say I strongly disagree with that statement.

Either

a. A user pays fault based system would see those that cause the injuries paying the increased premiums, ie. not us, not the victims.

or

b. The they increase the amount taken from salaries to cover the disproportionate costs of high income earners having their incomes covered whilst unable to work.

In an insurance model, the at fault party wears the cost. In an income protection model, more cover costs more money.

I think we are loosing sight of one of our major beefs, the split between clases or sizes of motorcycles. I for one ride a 600 cc, so not as badly impacted as others, but, that has to be one of the major points of the battle. Equality, across the motor vehicle category as a whole, and definately within the motorcycle category.

ACC (and the Govt) are saying 601cc + cost more, they do, but why is that?

It isn't the extent of the injuries or that they crash more often, it is the cost of the income cover. This cost is the same for people driving flash cars, or more specifically car drivers with high incomes.

Not everyone that rides a big bike is on a high income, just the same as not all that drive BMWs are either.

It is the people with the high income that cost more, irrespective of mode of transport. :brick:

If ACC want to apply the costs proportionatly, then they should look at the earner premium IMHO, put any additional cost where it belongs, not in a broadly generalised sub group.

Having said that, that would suck just as much, if not more, for me. But, being a National Government, they arent likely to do that are they?

Long story short, if they want to put blame in it, it should be levied where the blame exists, not on the victim, on the perpetrator.

Rant done!

[NONONO]

Has anyone got a schedule of Nick Smith public appearances.

We should be attending all of them. Imagine what it has to feel like if you prepare yourself for a public meeting knowing that you will have to face the bikers again .... and again .... and again. Sooner or later that will show its toll on Nick.

It does not matter if he walks out each time. This will only damage his agenda and reputation.

This approach is easily expandable to other politicians.

They might not listen to you but they cannot ignore you either. And on a personal level this is boarder-lining on psychological warfare.

This is spot on, exactly what I was thinking.
To those of you who are arguing for a user pays, fault determining, litigation necessary rout...well I hope you can afford it. The reality (especially in such a low rent economy as ours) is that most of us can't.
If you long for a USA type system and all of the problems that go with it, personal, economic and social, then nothing I can ever say can change one iota of how you think, and I have no need or right to even try. But I wonder what your motives are and I hope you will always be as secure as you now appear to be.
No Fault Universal Compensation and Accident Prevention. Once it's gone, it's gone forever. I can see the lawyers and insurance brokers laughing all the way to the bank.

[Ozzie]

Dunno if you got the wrong end of the stick, but I sure as shit aint arguin for a user pays system, quite the opposite.

I don't like the words "fair and warrented", no matter which way you cut this, the way they are intending to change this prize system is NOT fair and warrented.

[Ixion]

I would say I strongly disagree with that statement.

Either

a. A user pays fault based system would see those that cause the injuries paying the increased premiums, ie. not us, not the victims.

or

b. The they increase the amount taken from salaries to cover the disproportionate costs of high income earners having their incomes covered whilst unable to work.

In an insurance model, the at fault party wears the cost. In an income protection model, more cover costs more money.

I think we are loosing sight of one of our major beefs, the split between clases or sizes of motorcycles. I for one ride a 600 cc, so not as badly impacted as others, but, that has to be one of the major points of the battle. Equality, across the motor vehicle category as a whole, and definately within the motorcycle category.

ACC (and the Govt) are saying 601cc + cost more, they do, but why is that?

It isn't the extent of the injuries or that they crash more often, it is the cost of the income cover. This cost is the same for people driving flash cars, or more specifically car drivers with high incomes.

Not everyone that rides a big bike is on a high income, just the same as not all that drive BMWs are either.

It is the people with the high income that cost more, irrespective of mode of transport. :brick:

If ACC want to apply the costs proportionatly, then they should look at the earner premium IMHO, put any additional cost where it belongs, not in a broadly generalised sub group.

Having said that, that would suck just as much, if not more, for me. But, being a National Government, they arent likely to do that are they?

Long story short, if they want to put blame in it, it should be levied where the blame exists, not on the victim, on the perpetrator.

Rant done!

You missed the "on a user pays insurance model" bit.

ACC is NOT a user pays insurance scheme.

Which is why they are not fair and warrented. But if it WERE , they would be . that's what user pays means.

But Nick is claiming it is an insurance scheme. So we are not going to change his mind by argument.

[NONONO]

You missed the "on a user pays insurance model" bit.

ACC is NOT a user pays insurance scheme.

Which is why they are not fair and warrented. But if it WERE , they would be . that's what user pays means.

But Nick is claiming it is an insurance scheme. So we are not going to change his mind by argument.

Ixion
What values are you giving to the words "fair and warranted"?
In what world is it fair and warranted to demand insurance cover, charge crippling premiums and then use your corporate legal teams to renege on payments at point of claim?
In what world is it "fair and warranted" for the corporate who sells the cover to evaluate the potential cost of the risk, then hike it up again, just in case the risk matures?
Fair and warranted? Read theft and usury.

[Ixion]

Ixion
What values are you giving to the words "fair and warranted"?
In what world is it fair and warranted to demand insurance cover, charge crippling premiums and then use your corporate legal teams to renege on payments at point of claim?
In what world is it "fair and warranted" for the corporate who sells the cover to evaluate the potential cost of the risk, then hike it up again, just in case the risk matures?
Fair and warranted? Read theft and usury.


Fairly obvious, I would have thought. In the world of international insurance companies.

Pretty much standard operating procedure for them. Fair and warrented by their standards.

Which , again, is why ACC should NOT be truned into an insurance company.

But Dr Smith thinks it should. And thinks insurance companies are good stuff.

[drummer]

OK... great debate here... but lets get don to the nitty gritty..

A few facts

1)This is our opportunity to make Smith and the government's thinking on ACC look foolish.

2) Inside the meeting we do that with good questioning and if necessary, debate. It has to be the only way... for those of you wanting a noisy meeting... think about it... not all people there are bikers OR Nat hacks... we do not want THEM offside.

3) Outside... I say go for gold! Rockon! However keep it legal.

4) I can't see Smith walking out as a victory which would be greater than if he was stumped and made to look stupid... trust me... he can be made to look like a fool... and surely that is a far greater victory... then once outside... let the shouting begin!

Peter

[DidJit]

Is SpankMe going to send out a mailout for this? We really need a lot of bikes to turn up to this.

[rob 0]

with all of the bad press about the nat's at the moment
i think that the public suport is at an all time low
they are simply pissing too many people off!

any thing that you say or do
will be like water of a ducks back to him
he doesn't actualy care!!

numbers matter to him
untill we have the suport of 50% of the population
the nats don't have to listen to us at all

45% against the anti smacking bill
and they didnt think twice about it

there have been a couple of things
that would have made this govt a great one

1 pass the anti smack bill as per the referendum ($9 mill)

2 stop atacking the little guy, as a smoke screen for an across the board tax hike (bike levies)

3 the Copenhagon thing, make the big companies pay their fair share
and not shaft the general population , ( didnt we setle with the Moari already)

4 make the fiber broad band free to
the population and charge the companies a small fee for usage 9 we are paying for it)










2

[drummer]

Is SpankMe going to send out a mailout for this? We really need a lot of bikes to turn up to this.
Good idea.. will organise

P

[Bounce001]

I am unable to attend the meeting at this stage due to work commitments. However, I was at an Adult Literacy workshop yesterday and have a copy of a book (published by the Tertiary Education Commission) titled "Teaching Adults to Reason Statistically". This basically shows you how to teach adults to read and interpret statistics.

If anyone going along to the meeting is able to meet me before the meeting date, I am more than happy to give this book to them to present to Nick Smith. Perhaps they might learn something. Please PM me to arrange a meeting point. I live in Tuakau but will travel to pass this book on!

[Nonbeliever]

be inteesting to ask Mr Smith how he can reconcile pricing motorcycles off the road with other potfolios of climate change and the enviroment

please can someone raise the subject of emissions etc with nick's myth?

I cant make it.

thanks

[Kiwi Graham]

Other questions to consider asking Nick Smith;

Is it the intention of the govenment to scrap ACC and privatise it as an insurance company?

Is it the intention of the govenment to introduce levys for competative sports and other higher risk passtimes?

Do any of the current govenment have personel intrests in NZ or Australian insurance companies?

Why despite the accurate interpretation of the figures available do you and ACC continue to choose to belive the inaccurate figures?

Perhaps this should be another thread IE:- Questions to be put to Nick Smith.

Edit; thread posted

[Waxxa]

if this meeting is concerning Climate Change, shouldn't the questions that are put to the minister be related, in regarding motorcycles? pollution, congestion etc.

bike levies are one thing, environmental impact over use of car vs bike is also an issue that can be pushed.

[NONONO]

if this meeting is concerning Climate Change, shouldn't the questions that are put to the minister be related, in regarding motorcycles? pollution, congestion etc.

bike levies are one thing, environmental impact over use of car vs bike is also an issue that can be pushed.

We are reliably informed by Drummer that the meeting is about climate change AND ACC.
Too good an opportunity to miss.

[Winston001]

Why despite the accurate interpretation of the figures available do you and ACC continue to choose to belive the inaccurate figures?



I like your questions :niceone: - except the above one.

I've been following the ACC discussions for over a month now and downloaded info from ACC. However no-where have I seen a comprehensive analysis of the ACC figures and calculations as to why they are wrong.

Don't misunderstand - I'm sure they are wrong but I want to be able to quote accurate numbers when arguing our case. The stats quoted on KB threads are all over the place.

Any allegation that ACC are wrong needs to be backed up with evidence. Surely that isn't hard for us to find after all of the sterling work done by Ixion, Stoney and others.

[Ozzie]

I am unable to attend the meeting at this stage due to work commitments. However, I was at an Adult Literacy workshop yesterday and have a copy of a book (published by the Tertiary Education Commission) titled "Teaching Adults to Reason Statistically". This basically shows you how to teach adults to read and interpret statistics.

If anyone going along to the meeting is able to meet me before the meeting date, I am more than happy to give this book to them to present to Nick Smith. Perhaps they might learn something. Please PM me to arrange a meeting point. I live in Tuakau but will travel to pass this book on!

I'm based in Pap's, can be go between if you like. Will be back on Sunday and will be going to the event.

Fark it is hot in Sydney at the mo :apint:

[Subike]

Mr nickster
What policies are you going to put in place to promote Climate Change in regards to lowering vehicle emissions?

Is your party going to promote Climate Change practices such as thue use of low fuel consumption scooters in the CBD's of our major cities?

Are there going to be any incentives for workers to use more enviromentaly friendly vehicles for daily commuting to their work places which assist in Climate Change?

[NONONO]

OK... great debate here... but lets get don to the nitty gritty..

A few facts

1)This is our opportunity to make Smith and the government's thinking on ACC look foolish.

2) Inside the meeting we do that with good questioning and if necessary, debate. It has to be the only way... for those of you wanting a noisy meeting... think about it... not all people there are bikers OR Nat hacks... we do not want THEM offside.

3) Outside... I say go for gold! Rockon! However keep it legal.

4) I can't see Smith walking out as a victory which would be greater than if he was stumped and made to look stupid... trust me... he can be made to look like a fool... and surely that is a far greater victory... then once outside... let the shouting begin!

Peter
Hey Drummer
Don't bottle out now cocker, it's all on.
You can't control what will happen so you might as well just surf along from now on....
What's the worst that can happen?
The Nats send you to the naughty step?
Old Nick has a melt down?
Santa Clause is coming to town..
Santa Clause is coming to town....
Santa Clause IS coming to town.

[Ixion]

The other thread turned into a bit of a mess

So I've started this

SPECIFICALLY to set up the game plan

A number of very important points

Firstly, this is really important. Nick got savaged at the BIKEOI. This is his first outing since. He's fervently hoping that we've had our rant, tossed our toys out of the cot, and now we've gone home , calmed down and lost interest.

If we tuen up wiht only a dozen bikes, he'll consider that hope confirmed. And figure he doesn't need to do too much .

Frankly the last national party meeting we dropped on , in Pukekohe, was an embarrassment. Only about 6 bikes, we were highly outnumbered , and we got allowed one token question!.

We can't afford a repeat of that. If we can't muster at least 100 bikes, it's better not to do it at all.


Second point, there's a theory that most all of the bikers should hang around outside while a few nice compliant patsies ask Mr Smith some nice questions and meekly accept what he says. No way I'm going for that. We want all (or almost all) the bikers inside, grilling the Nickster. Well done on both sides. Charred black in fact. We need to make this an experience he'll still be having nightmares about in a years time.

Thirdly we have to think about what we say . There's some strategy in this, and we want to make the most of it. Especially as we may get press coverage.

Now, I've got some ideas on these points. But I don't want to spout them out here in public, with Nick's snoops writing it all down. We want this to be a nice little surprise for him

So, I reckon we put on a wee bit ride Sunday (I can't do Saturday, sorry. My wife's birthday, and I reckon I need to front up for it). Weather forecats is good for Sunday.

All get together in meatspace (yeah, I know it's a strange place).

Bridge House? CowKop ? The Kentish? Clevedon pub ?

I'm easy with anything within an hours ride , say 100km north or south.

We'll sort out the battle plan and then post it up latish Monday when it's too late for him to do much more than panic

Yeah, I know he could still get a mole in. But I reckon , given that all the snoop types are in Wellington, that anyone on a bike is probably kosher.

I suppose they could plant a bikie cop in mufti , or even set up someone with a directional microphone, but we've got to draw a line somewhere

And of course, a lot of peole won't be able to make it. But we can pass the info on to quite a lot with email PM and txt. And those who miss out can pick it up when it's posted Monday

So, where suits.

Call the pub.

Bridge House might not have enough space. Cowkop can hold a lot of people. Ditto Kentish. North, or South ?

[Ixion]

See this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=113502) . But try not to fuck it up, OK.

[short-circuit]

What's the worst that can happen?
The Nats send you to the naughty step?


:nono: :spanking: :clap:

Thanks for the invite Peter :niceone:

[Kiwi Graham]

See this thread. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=108) But try not to fuck it up, OK.

It doesnt go to a thread Les?

[Ixion]

Garrgggh . It goes to the forum.

Fixed (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=113502)

[NONONO]

See this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=113502) . But try not to fuck it up, OK.

Hey Ixion, Try not to fuck it up Ok?

[Kiwi Graham]

Cant get out Sunday Les but keep me in the loop.

[yachtie10]

Im there
can do anywhere but north would be good
how about a pub in wellsford (puhoi too small?)
or even the mangawhai pub

[Little Miss Trouble]

Am busy Sunday AM helping at RRRS but depending on what time we finish up I may be able to make it to somewhere north in the late arvo, Kaukop is good

[Ixion]

I thought that the Govt were backing down?

Nope.

Gov say "Increases won't be as high , probably, maybe. Nothing definate, no dollars mentioned. "Not as high" could be just $50 knocked off.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that whatever they grudgingly remit this year, they'll be back for next year.



Im there
can do anywhere but north would be good
how about a pub in wellsford (puhoi too small?)
or even the mangawhai pub

Wellsford is Bridge House. Not very big, and tends to be full of locals. I'm OK with it though , hopefully Maha or Mom can give an opinion on if it can handle say 50 bikers?

(If we don't get 50 turn up to the planning session we'll be struggling to get 100 for the event - we really need numbers on the 30th)

[NONONO]

The other thread turned into a bit of a mess

So I've started this

SPECIFICALLY to set up the game plan

A number of very important points

Firstly, this is really important. Nick got savaged at the BIKEOI. This is his first outing since. He's fervently hoping that we've had our rant, tossed our toys out of the cot, and now we've gone home , calmed down and lost interest.

If we tuen up wiht only a dozen bikes, he'll consider that hope confirmed. And figure he doesn't need to do too much .

Frankly the last national party meeting we dropped on , in Pukekohe, was an embarrassment. Only about 6 bikes, we were highly outnumbered , and we got allowed one token question!.

We can't afford a repeat of that. If we can't muster at least 100 bikes, it's better not to do it at all.


Second point, there's a theory that most all of the bikers should hang around outside while a few nice compliant patsies ask Mr Smith some nice questions and meekly accept what he says. No way I'm going for that. We want all (or almost all) the bikers inside, grilling the Nickster. Well done on both sides. Charred black in fact. We need to make this an experience he'll still be having nightmares about in a years time.

Thirdly we have to think about what we say . There's some strategy in this, and we want to make the most of it. Especially as we may get press coverage.

Now, I've got some ideas on these points. But I don't want to spout them out here in public, with Nick's snoops writing it all down. We want this to be a nice little surprise for him

So, I reckon we put on a wee bit ride Sunday (I can't do Saturday, sorry. My wife's birthday, and I reckon I need to front up for it). Weather forecats is good for Sunday.

All get together in meatspace (yeah, I know it's a strange place).

Bridge House? CowKop ? The Kentish? Clevedon pub ?

I'm easy with anything within an hours ride , say 100km north or south.

We'll sort out the battle plan and then post it up latish Monday when it's too late for him to do much more than panic

Yeah, I know he could still get a mole in. But I reckon , given that all the snoop types are in Wellington, that anyone on a bike is probably kosher.

I suppose they could plant a bikie cop in mufti , or even set up someone with a directional microphone, but we've got to draw a line somewhere

And of course, a lot of peole won't be able to make it. But we can pass the info on to quite a lot with email PM and txt. And those who miss out can pick it up when it's posted Monday

So, where suits.

Call the pub.

Bridge House might not have enough space. Cowkop can hold a lot of people. Ditto Kentish. North, or South ?
With the greatest respect Ixion
But....
As I've said before, no one on this forum has signed up to any code of conduct, club rules and regulations or mandate.
If you have a specific plan for this meeting, as part of an overall strategy cool. But don't for gods sake attempt to keep this protest "in house".
This forum is a fine way to disseminate and collate information, but it is representative of no one, unless we, individually, decide to make it so.
Sometimes the 'elite" forget to be representative. Which is after all what we are arguing against.
I have joined in every protest so far, will continue to do so. But, I am not to be directed or marshaled into acting as others would have me act.
So far the protests have been fairly spontaneous, actioned with the best will in the world and often at short notice.
The organization has been wonderful, where and when. And mostly that's all it takes. We are all, for the most part reasonable men and women, please don't mistake us for drones.

[Ixion]

With the greatest respect Ixion
But....
As I've said before, no one one this forum has signed up to any code of conduct, club rules and regulations or mandate.
If you have a specific plan for this meeting, as part of an overall strategy cool. But don't for gods sake attempt to keep this protest "in house".
This forum is a fine way to disseminate and collate information, but it is representative of no one, unless we, individually, decide to make it so.
Sometimes the 'elite" forget to be representative. Which is after all what we are arguing against.
I have joined in every protest so far, will continue to do so. But, I am not to be directed or marshaled into acting as others would have me act.
So far the protests have been fairly spontaneous, actioned with the best will in the world and often at short notice.
The organization has been wonderful, where and when. And mostly that's all it takes. We are all, for the most part reasonable men and women, please don't mistake us for drones.


Sigh. Noone is trying to "marshall " anyone into anything.

But this forum, has one major downside.

EVERYONE IN THE WORLD CAN READ IT. INCLUDING NICK SMITH AND HIS MATES.

So if we want to plan out what we're going to do (as opposed to embarassing ourselves liek at Pukekohe), we need to do it off line.

If you ahve a better time or place, I'm easy.

But I see no point in working out anything when Nick is getting briefed on the whole deal.

[Mom]

Wellsford is Bridge House. Not very big, and tends to be full of locals.


Bridge House is Warkworth and we had our wedding there. Out back will hold 100+ no worries! The front part can be full of locals, but the back is likely to be empty or close to it day time on the weekend. I know the owner really well, the back bar is a great venue. We are away for the weekend, but may be tempted back for a Sunday Arvo meeting. Let me know if you want it other than that, I will heads Ian up.

[Mom]

Hey and Warkworth is 30 mins north of the bridge. Make use of the friggen toll road before we have to pay for that too!

[Ixion]

Oops. Wrong W. OK, if Bridge House can hold the numbers, lets make it that.

Sunday PM , brunch for the early arrivals, discussion after

Bridge House Warkworth

Calendar entry here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=2283&day=2009-11-29)

[Ixion]

Sigh. Bump to reinstate the original purpose of the thread

Off line meeting in meat space to discuss and settle the game plan for Nicks Nov 30th meeting

Bridge House Warkworth. Sunday pm.

And this thread shows EXACTLY why we need to do it off line.

Calendar entry here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=2283&day=2009-11-29)

[MadDuck]

Bridge House is Warkworth and we had our wedding there.

Easily confused. I once heard this funny story about someone booked a hotel in Wellsford but they were partying in Warkworth.:msn-wink:

Count me in. The food rocks!

[st00ji]

ixion,

i appreciate you dont want to give away too many details online, but i would prefer not to ride out to wherever you decide to have your planning meeting due to learner restrictions and open road temptations being a bad combo :D i would however like to be involved in the protest at the actual national party back slapping conference, are you planning a group ride / arrival to this that i could simply meet up with?

im quite happy just being another body for now, keen to get involved a bit and see some stuff happening.

cheers!

[Ixion]

That's fair enough, we'll update you by PM.

[Mom]

Easily confused. I once heard this funny story about someone booked a hotel in Wellsford but they were partying in Warkworth.:msn-wink:

Count me in. The food rocks!

Yeah, I heard that one too.

Come on guys, 4 of us so far and well, we may not get there till after all the decisions have been made really...LOL

[jafar]

Can the time be a bit better than "sunday PM " thats a bit vague & you can't really have a meeting if there isn't a time to be there !
:blank:

[phred]

Both our bikes will be in Tauranga for the next 2 weeks. If you broadcast the date time and place of gathering prior to the Auto Da Fe I will find a way to get there.

If anyone wants to offer a ride to a big fat bastard 120Kgs and 5'14" then please PM me.

D'Oh From Pakuranga

[ac3_snow]

working on sunday but will make sure im there monday night just tell me when n where:headbang:

[RiderInBlack]

Come on Dudes, there is many other threads in which we can discuss why we are battling the preposed ACC Levy increases. Here we need to stick to where we can meet to discuss how we are going to handle Nick's Myth on Nov 30th. Please keep to that thanks.

[Waxxa]

Warkworth is fine but can we define the time a bit more? may I make a suggestion of 1pm sharp? meeting gets underway...

[drummer]

Hey Drummer
Don't bottle out now cocker, it's all on.
You can't control what will happen so you might as well just surf along from now on....
What's the worst that can happen?
The Nats send you to the naughty step?
Old Nick has a melt down?
Santa Clause is coming to town..
Santa Clause is coming to town....
Santa Clause IS coming to town.

I aren't concerned in the slightest what the Nats think of me... but I AM concerned about what our image should be as bikers... surely we don't want people off side... hey this is not about the Nats, or anyone personally in my books.. its about the end result... bringing down bike levies.. for years we have sat around doing nothing but still paying more than cars... now all hell has broken loose because of the unjustified increase... don't lose sight of the target... its about ACC policy being NO-Fault... just attacking Smith won't do our cause any good at all... but making him look incompetent and forcing him to change his mind through ours and the publics support is essential.

Peter

[RiderInBlack]

I aren't concerned in the slightest what the Nats think of me... but I AM concerned about what our image should be as bikers... surely we don't want people off side... hey this is not about the Nats, or anyone personally in my books.. its about the end result... bringing down bike levies.. for years we have sat around doing nothing but still paying more than cars... now all hell has broken loose because of the unjustified increase... don't lose sight of the target... its about ACC policy being NO-Fault... just attacking Smith won't do our cause any good at all... but making him look incompetent and forcing him to change his mind through ours and the publics support is essential.

PeterExectly. Don't forget though that there is more at stake than just the Levy on Bikes, the whole ACC NO-Faults system is at stake.

[Ixion]

Can the time be a bit better than "sunday PM " thats a bit vague & you can't really have a meeting if there isn't a time to be there !
:blank:

I'll be there for lunch around noon.

Let's say 1:30 to start discussions. But I'm seeing thios as a relaxed sort of thing, not a formal meeting. Just like we'd chew things opver online here, but away from prying eyes.

So if y' want time to grab a beer first , say 1 pm. If you're a teetotaller , 2

[Lucyloo]

Hi Ixion
My partner and I will be there on Monday but can't make the Sunday briefing.
Please keep us posted - via pm if necessary.
Thanks
Luce.

[Max Headroom]

I intend being at the Monday night meeting, but I won't be able to make it to the Sunday briefing either.

[Ixion]

..
Oh and Les, good luck with this effort, great idea meeting offline

It's a pain really. Rather not do it, makes it difficult to get everyone n the loop.

But the alternative is sending him full details of what we are going to do days in advance. Which gives his spin doctors loads of time to program him with suitable answers.

We need to keep some element of surprise, keep him guessing a bit.

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.

[Ronin]

It's a pain really. Rather not do it, makes it difficult to get everyone n the loop.

But the alternative is sending him full details of what we are going to do days in advance. Which gives his spin doctors loads of time to program him with suitable answers.

We need to keep some element of surprise, keep him guessing a bit.

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.

Or leaked.......

[yachtie10]

It's a pain really. Rather not do it, makes it difficult to get everyone n the loop.

But the alternative is sending him full details of what we are going to do days in advance. Which gives his spin doctors loads of time to program him with suitable answers.

We need to keep some element of surprise, keep him guessing a bit.

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.

Im all for the offline discussion
but why cant you have an invitation only forum online for the same purpose?

[drummer]

Exectly. Don't forget though that there is more at stake than just the Levy on Bikes, the whole ACC NO-Faults system is at stake.
Absolutely.... but it hasn't really been a no fault organisation anyhow... the user pays system has always been in place... but it contradicts the no-fault system and policy that the ACC was founded on. Fault suggests user pays... thats the case in road transport and industry but doesn't apply in sport or recreation... I don't pay a single cent of rego or ACC levy on my boat.. I don't even need a license... however I have had more need of ACC with my boat (spike in hand... $2000 plus) and damaged knee (again $2000 plus) than all (two only both caused by cars and total ACC was well under $1000) accidents on my road bikes..

We have to convince the Smithy boy and the government at large that this is blatantly unfair... not cause a riot.

I spoke with the MC today for the meeting, they are fully aware that there will be protests... evidently they are expecting it... Nick Smith has had protests at every public engagement it seems... I was told quite emphatically that if the bikers try to shout and disrupt he will do two things... turn the other people against us and if necessary close the meeting. That would be a PR worse case scenario ... It would give the government MORE ammo against us... public opinion over minority groups is hugely important to the government... we as a minority group don't need to alienate the public.. anyone who thinks this is very silly... why on earth.. (especially with the gang thing so much in the news lately) would we be an unruly mob? Do we really want that.. I do NOT... I am not and will not be part of an unruly loud inside protest. I stand against it absolutely... its not about letting Smith off... its about letting him say his piece and about us picking that apart piece by piece until his argument for increased and unfair levies is completely dismantles... If anyone here thinks its about just making Smith angry and the public mad they ought to really look at why they want to protest.

Intelligence guys and girls, not silliness. will win our cause.

I was also told that if there was any threat made or violence leading up to the meeting the meeting would be canceled...

Do we want this? NO.. Ian... please absolutely take note...

Peter

[Ixion]

We sort of tried that, but it gets impossible to manage once you get past about 10 members. Unfortunately, the way it works is that only the group owner can do the inviting bit. Which quickly gets into a full time job. Fine if we want an area to (reasonably) securely discuss things between maybe a dozen people. Not so hot if the numbers are greater.

And the only way for someone to ask to be invited is to PM the group owner. Who of course will not always be online. And then of course you have the problem that if a request is received "can I have access to the discussion please. thanks" , you really may have no idea at all who this person is. Unless he is silly enough to pick a user name like NickRocks or something.

At least in meatspace we can see the person. If they arrive in a car , and wear size 16 boots we can be pretty suspicious. I guess a bikie cop could arrive in mufti and we wouldn't know. It's an imperfect world. And of course a meatspace meeting, a snoop would either have to rig himself up with recording equipment or make notes, bit obvious.

I thought of email too, but it still doesn't work well.

[Squiggles]

As a member of the 12 that sat in your office on Tuesday the 17th, i'm still yet to recieve your figures as promised. I left my contact details on a submission on your desk, have you read it? :lol:

[Ixion]

... its about letting him say his piece and about us picking that apart piece by piece until his argument for increased and unfair levies is completely dismantles... ..

Do you really imagine that any meeting chairman (given that he is a National hack) is going to stand by and allow that.

The only effect of meekly turning up and sitting nice and submissive while Nick makes his speech is that Nick will make his points,and the chairman will close down ANY attempt at 'discussion'.

This is NOT a neutral meeting. This is a National propaganda event and they will NOT allow us to put their Minister on the spot. I'm seriously wondering about your bona fides here.

A meeting where all we do is quietly sit and listen to Nick telling us how wonderful he is , and that we should be very grateful our levies are not even higher, and at the end of his speech we meekly go away is NOT going to be good for us.

The Chairman of the meeting will NOT allow Nick to be put on the spot. It is the easiest thing in the world for the Chair to close down any discussion that is not going the way he wants.

If the meeting were a neutral one with a neutral chair,I'd agree with you. It's not and the only way we will make our point is to take control of the meeting.

[drummer]

Do you really imagine that any meeting chairman (given that he is a National hack) is going to stand by and allow that.

The only effect of meekly turning up and sitting nice and submissive while Nick makes his speech is that Nick will make his points,and the chairman will close down ANY attempt at 'discussion'.

This is NOT a neutral meeting. This is a National propaganda event and they will NOT allow us to put their Minister on the spot. I'm seriously wondering about your bona fides here.

A meeting where all we do is quietly sit and listen to Nick telling us how wonderful he is , and that we should be very grateful our levies are not even higher, and at the end of his speech we meekly go away is NOT going to be good for us.

The Chairman of the meeting will NOT allow Nick to be put on the spot. It is the easiest thing in the world for the Chair to close down any discussion that is not going the way he wants.

If the meeting were a neutral one with a neutral chair,I'd agree with you. It's not and the only way we will make our point is to take control of the meeting.

OK.. a few points.. and some good points made by you.

Your idea of a neutral chair sounds interesting. Why don't we propose at the beginning of the meeting the chair (A Nat branch chairman) is replaced with a neutral one. One from the audience. It could be done...

Also could we suggest that the speech be capped at 10 mins max. If we approach it like that then it would have a good effect.

Most people won't be National hacks... they may be Nat voters but I have seen some sticky questions get asked in the past.

I totally agree we should take charge... absolutely but at the right time in the right way. Question time is normally far longer than the 'speech". I believe allowing him to speak will give is bullet points on which to debate and raise issues. WE also should remember that just arguing isn't debating... and surely thats what we need to do.

As for "I'm seriously wondering about your bona fides here"... I hope that you aren't serious... I am totally pissed off at the government over this... even more so than many because I assisted in their victory... to me its like being stabbed in the back by your former best mate... it hurts and I am seething with anger. However, I also know the party and politics in general very well. I know how these meetings work and am doing my level best to convince people that the best way to go is not go in balls and all... but go in as intelligent people and ask questions that will sway not only Smith but the party hacks and the public... it CAN be done...

For the record.. in case u missed the previous post some days ago.. I was dumped from the local Nats after arguing on a certain policy... you think I'm their favorite son... you have to be kidding!

Peter

[Waxxa]

at all times at any protest, we 'bikers' must come across as a determined and factual group with a clear purpose in mind.

common stategy people....numbers of people (us), facts and figures, intelligent means of pushing the message hard rather than arriving as a bunch of loud 'yobbos' talking personal perceptions...will hopefully change the course of this proposal.

But is the questioning going to be over levies or climate impact of motorcycles?

[StoneY]

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.

Hmmmmmmmm
The 'social group' was mildly successful, but does limit the number of people that get the info accurately

When I was an online gamer I hosted Teamspeak servers, was a free VOIP program that was cool for group discussion, as is Skype

Maybe a private Skype channel? You would have to authorise the users one by one but garantees some privacy without riding out in the wops.
There has to be a way.........

[short-circuit]

I'm seriously wondering about your bona fides here.


Been saying this all along - Peter is a plant and apologist for these scumbags

A grade A bullshit artist

[Ixion]

All those things fail at the "Hi I'm a biker I'd like to join the discussion" (aside "Yeah, they think I'm a biker, tell Nick we're in, boss" ) test. If someone wants to join in, how do you know they actually ride?

[drummer]

at all times at any protest, we 'bikers' must come across as a determined and factual group with a clear purpose in mind.

common stategy people....numbers of people (us), facts and figures, intelligent means of pushing the message hard rather than arriving as a bunch of loud 'yobbos' talking personal perceptions...will hopefully change the course of this proposal.

But is the questioning going to be over levies or climate impact of motorcycles?
Agree totally

The questioning on the two topics I believe goes hand in hand.... although I would think the majority is going to be from ourselves if we control it right and in that case probably more ACC related

Peter

[StoneY]

Can be managed via e-mail confirmation too....was just a thought
Could cross reference each e-mail vs KB logon....ah fuck it too much work

Deal face to face with a few trusted types
Set the meeting up at one pub, tell those that matter where it really is

[drummer]

Ian... ever got the feeling mate that people are just ignoring your posts... I can't see the content.. long ago I put you on ignore for the simple fact that you had nothing constructive to say. You pulled down and made enemies of people that are fighting for a common cause. I am very serious about what I have to say to you. IF you attend the meeting behave. I believe this is going to be a very good meeting with some good questions asked and a lawful protest happening... of course some people are fired up to interject all the time but I hope that won't happen too much because they will just close the meeting down and people who have travelled miles to see him will go away thinking bikers should have their bikes taxed even more. The other thing Ian, is that believe it or not there will be police there... and ministerial security service. They will NOT take kindly to any violence from you. I do not want to meet you at this or any other ACC meeting or event. We can save the intro's to later. Please do not cause trouble. This is as I have said a serious and rare event. We ALL get our chance to meet and question the minister for ACC... I want that meeting to have an outcome where he will be shown up to be entirely wrong about bikes and bikers... and that his thinking may be swayed a little by our activities. All we need is for you or anyone else for that matter to be out of control. If you really want to come, do so for the RIGHT reasons... not to show the rest of us how you evidently hate all people who vote National and want to abuse or threaten them.

Ian... consider this a honest attempt at asking you to show some commonsense... and perhaps a truce in this pathetic war you seemingly want to wage against me and many others. If you are prepared to do this then come, but if not.. stay away for the good of ALL motorcyclists..

I trust that many others feel the same way.

Peter

[Ozzie]

at all times at any protest, we 'bikers' must come across as a determined and factual group with a clear purpose in mind.

common stategy people....numbers of people (us), facts and figures, intelligent means of pushing the message hard rather than arriving as a bunch of loud 'yobbos' talking personal perceptions...will hopefully change the course of this proposal.

But is the questioning going to be over levies or climate impact of motorcycles?

What's wrong with both?

[scissorhands]

A 'War Room' of Auckland KB stalwarts ONLY would be fine with me.

Meeting weekly or bi weekly whatever, a group of trusted long time friends, leaving marginal newbies like myself OUT. However, still fishing for good ideas from the great unwashed.

So much energy is wasted here, too many cooks in the kitchen squabbling over left/right, bla bla bla, wank wank wank, too much reading, instead of keeping it lean and mean. Thats my feeling

[retro asian]

I say... test the water with quiet/polite at first...if it's getting nowhere....plan B!!! :bash:

e.g. (for those who weren't in Welly)

Everyone agreeing to be quiet...allowing Nick Smith to address parliament grounds.
Nick Smith starting his speech with "I was surprised as you were...".
A spontaneous united chant of "Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!".

Farkin' Priceless.

<img src="http://www.mastercardmoments.co.nz/Skins/Moments/images/moments_mc.png">

[drummer]

I say... test the water with quiet/polite at first...if it's getting nowhere....plan B!!! :bash:

e.g. (for those who weren't in Welly)

Everyone agreeing to be quiet...allowing Nick Smith to address parliament grounds.
Nick Smith starting his speech with "I was surprised as you were...".
A spontaneous united chant of "Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!".

Farkin' Priceless.

<img src="http://www.mastercardmoments.co.nz/Skins/Moments/images/moments_mc.png">

Good strategy... not sure about bash though LOL

See you there

Peter

[rob 0]

the irony

of a protest called up by nick at bastion point

beware , The Man will be there

so don't get too out of shape

could i sugest you don't leave your helmet on the bike ???

[short-circuit]

Ian... ever got the feeling mate that people are just ignoring your posts... I can't see the content.. long ago I put you on ignore for the simple fact that you had nothing constructive to say. You pulled down and made enemies of people that are fighting for a common cause. I am very serious about what I have to say to you. IF you attend the meeting behave. I believe this is going to be a very good meeting with some good questions asked and a lawful protest happening... of course some people are fired up to interject all the time but I hope that won't happen too much because they will just close the meeting down and people who have travelled miles to see him will go away thinking bikers should have their bikes taxed even more. The other thing Ian, is that believe it or not there will be police there... and ministerial security service. They will NOT take kindly to any violence from you. I do not want to meet you at this or any other ACC meeting or event. We can save the intro's to later. Please do not cause trouble. This is as I have said a serious and rare event. We ALL get our chance to meet and question the minister for ACC... I want that meeting to have an outcome where he will be shown up to be entirely wrong about bikes and bikers... and that his thinking may be swayed a little by our activities. All we need is for you or anyone else for that matter to be out of control. If you really want to come, do so for the RIGHT reasons... not to show the rest of us how you evidently hate all people who vote National and want to abuse or threaten them.

Ian... consider this a honest attempt at asking you to show some commonsense... and perhaps a truce in this pathetic war you seemingly want to wage against me and many others. If you are prepared to do this then come, but if not.. stay away for the good of ALL motorcyclists..

I trust that many others feel the same way.

Peter

Peter....Patronise me....Peter....Patsy of the National Party....Peter...Pulling off again....Peter....Pinocchio....Peter...Political agenda alert

Peter....Pretend Biker.....Peter....supports privatisation

[pete376403]

Keep the conversations face to face, no electronic comms, and talk only to people you know and trust. Well it works for Bin Laden - if all the resources of the US military and the CIA can't find him, if you use the same techniques chances are Nick won't be able to find out what you're up to. Until it's too late.

[paddy]

It's a pain really. Rather not do it, makes it difficult to get everyone n the loop.

But the alternative is sending him full details of what we are going to do days in advance. Which gives his spin doctors loads of time to program him with suitable answers.

We need to keep some element of surprise, keep him guessing a bit.

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.

Ixion, just a couple of quick thoughts:

I think it's safe to release the details of a protest in terms of "Nick will be here", "we are looking for a turnout >100 bikers", etc. I think what you are probably trying to keep secret is the content of your questions so that Mr Smith cannot develop pre-tested answers. That is to say you would like to keep him of guard. The reality is that if 100 bikers turn up, very few will likely get to speak. To me, that means that very few need to know the specifics of the questions that will be asked. The rest of us just need to know the date/time and the general feel of the questions (so we know that we agree with you approach). In that respect those things would seem to me to be quite safe to be made public.

P.

[MSTRS]

Sensible as usual, young man.
Mind you, gleaming pertinent info from any thread, dedicated to facts or otherwise, is difficult. Because, so often, the info is a work in progress, as new facts and figures come to our attention.

[Ixion]

Bumping.

Meatspace meeting.

Bridge House Warkworth Sunday 29th 1:30 ish . Informal. Like here but without snoops. And with coffee , beer , food. How bad can that be.

I am told that we will not be the only group protesting. Which may affect our strategy.

I have also heard it hinted that there will be a heavy police presence, and they may block off parking at the site to make life difficult.

We may need to scout out alternative parking, just in case .

Can we have a couple of volunteers to go in mufti - ie not look like bikers. Just to confuse them.

[yachtie10]

Can we have a couple of volunteers to go in mufti - ie not look like bikers. Just to confuse them.

Wobblyas and I are discussing just that will discus on Sunday

[flyingcrocodile46]

Bumping.

I have also heard it hinted that there will be a heavy police presence, and they may block off parking at the site to make life difficult.


There is parking along both sides of Tamaki Drive in the evenings (unused bus lane one side, full time parking the other)

[Hawk]

[QUOTE =
And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped.[/QUOTE]

mailing/discussion list that is membership controlled as opposed to self registration maybe the host of this site would set one up for you

[drummer]

The man?

Peter

[AD345]

The man?

Peter

yeah man

don't fuck with the Man, man

[drummer]

The Man... ahh you mean Helen Clarke... no hes overseas now LOL!

P

[candor]

Heard this from horses mouth today - NZ IS SCREWED

Penelope Bright was charged and convicted of criminal trespass during an Auckland Town Hall public meeting in 2006 for holding up a banner against the back wall which stated "Mayor Hubbard's DICKtatorship is a cereal matter, don't buy it". The obvious pun to Dick Hubbard's cereal company sought to drive home the strident push by the former Mayor to get a planned - and since scuttled - waterfront stadium approved by excluding opposing views from the public debate. The video of the meeting showed Ms Bright was quiet until the Mayor threatened her. The Mayor ordered her arrested and charged with criminal trespass when she refused his order to leave the Town Hall for being disruptive. Ms Bright was never warned of the criminal charge as the Trespass Act required. This would be but a minor legal point on her conviction.

The legislation covering such public meetings is the Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act (LGOIMA). It specifically allows for removal without criminal charge from public meetings and claims supremacy over all other legislation in relation to the conduct of public meetings. The New Zealand District Court, High Court and Court of Appeal all stated that LGOIMA did not exclude the use of criminal prosecution when an attendee refused a request by the "rightful occupier" to leave. All the lower court judges ignored the video evidence which showed Ms Bright had put the banner away before the Police approached her, was not warned for trespass and did not attempt to re-enter the building. Bluntly speaking, all the judges agreed she was rightfully convicted of criminal charge because of her "offensive" banner, even though she put the banner away before being removed.

According to the Supreme Court ruling, the Trespass Act legislation co-exists with LGOIMA. The upshot is all attendees need to be wary of offending the "rightful occupier" where the public meeting is conducted lest they end up criminally convicted and sent to prison.

This is dangerous to any democracy...

[drummer]

wouldnt be concerned for this meeting.. Old mother hubbards meeting was I believe private...

Peter

[NONONO]

You know,,,
Tamaki Drive is rather a thin road...
I'm just thinking,,what a bloody nuisance it would be if the road in and out was sort of blocked for a while. That would be awful.

[DEVVIL]

Im busy on sunday (dam)But will come on Monday. I think you guys need a meeting place around Auck to talk about strategys. The reast of us will come to any event like this. We need to stand up and be heard keep the pressure on. The time may come :soon:: when it is time to show them how pissed off we really are:2guns:. Dont forget a lot of us work for the govt and are getting sh#t all over. I may be locked out around feb grrrrrrrrr.:angry2:

[Ixion]

I know Ms Bright. She was not *quite* as peaceable as might appear.

But, as the percussion gentleman noted, local body meetings have their own rules. There is also a difference between a general public meeting (as Mr Smith's is) and a council meeting where the public are present only on sufferance. Same deal as Parliament- technically public are NOT allowed and any MP or councillor can require "strangers' to be removed.

However, if required to leave Mr Smith's meeting, we will of course do so, immediately and peaceably.

The media impact of THAT would be priceless.

"Bikers' interrogation too tough for Minster"
"ACC cracks down on free speech as well as levies"
"Minister runs for cover, evcist bikers to avoid questions"

Please ask the Minister to evict us. Please, please.

[MSTRS]

Info about Allan Peachey may be useful for some... Allan joined the party before the failed Brash election. He replaced a totally ineffectual Clem Simich as MP for Tamaki. Allan became an MP in that election and this is his second term in office.



I would be keen on attending this meeting. Giving Allan Peachey a hard time would be amusing as well. I once attended a pre-election debate with Allan Peachey as one of the participants. Prior to the debate I was planning on voting for National, but as Peachey appeared to be senile and suffering from borderline retardation I changed my vote, couldn't support a party that would put people with his obvious lack of facilities in power.

Alan Peachey is one of the strangest creatures...a National-supporting school teacher. He has never been a part of the real world, and has always been on the public's shilling. He was a first or second year teacher at Hutt Valley High, when I was there in the early 70s. He was not well-thought-of or respected back then either. He climbed the ranks and ended up headmaster at one of the larger Auckland colleges, before going into politics.

[Philz]

Nick Smith is to hold an environmental meeting at the Akarana Yacht Club, Tamaki Drive, Okahu Bay, Auckland on Monday 30 November 2009 at 7:30pm. Some of us need to attend, I for one am going to attend. Maybe we need to hi-jack the meeting and turn it in to an ACC levy meeting

[Ixion]

Sigh. Yeah man , we got all sorts of super secret plans. Always glad to have another comrade along. Email me at nick@nick4nelson.co.nz and we'll tell you all about it.

[drummer]

Alan Peachey is one of the strangest creatures...a National-supporting school teacher. He has never been a part of the real world, and has always been on the public's shilling. He was a first or second year teacher at Hutt Valley High, when I was there in the early 70s. He was not well-thought-of or respected back then either. He climbed the ranks and ended up headmaster at one of the larger Auckland colleges, before going into politics.
There are quite a few teachers who were sick of Labour and were strongly behind the Nats. Also Allan was instrumental to the reforms of a certain local school... he is well thought of now in the area but has got some people offside and tends to be a party hack

Peter

[drummer]

Nick Smith is to hold an environmental meeting at the Akarana Yacht Club, Tamaki Drive, Okahu Bay, Auckland on Monday 30 November 2009 at 7:30pm. Some of us need to attend, I for one am going to attend. Maybe we need to hi-jack the meeting and turn it in to an ACC levy meeting No need.. its about all his portfolios and I suspect the main one will be ACC

Peter

[drummer]

However, if required to leave Mr Smith's meeting, we will of course do so, immediately and peaceably.

The media impact of THAT would be priceless.

"Bikers' interrogation too tough for Minster"
"ACC cracks down on free speech as well as levies"
"Minister runs for cover, evcist bikers to avoid questions"

Please ask the Minister to evict us. Please, please. Thats actually not a bad idea... but we have to have it done because we are domineering the meeting not being abusive...

Peter

[MiniFlick]

I'm in for getting the Harley out on Monday but need some info on where and when if it's not being posted can someone email me the info please.......hopefully you can see it thru my profile

[DEVVIL]

Monday 30 November: Public meeting with Hon Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment, Climate Change Issues and ACC, National MP for Nelson, 7.30pm at Royal Akarana Yacht Club, Okahu Bay. Auckland lets all be there. Please pm for some inside info about the meeting... remember its a PUBLIC meeting.. organised by Tamaki electorate amongst others and a branch chairman who has jokingly told me to get a car (I have two) is interviewing him... lets flood this meeting folks!

Peter
Still learning about this forum stuff hope this helps.

[short-circuit]

There are quite a few teachers who were sick of Labour and were strongly behind the Nats. Also Allan was instrumental to the reforms of a certain local school... he is well thought of now in the area but has got some people offside and tends to be a party hack

Peter

No he isn't. He's known as a cunt - and a dirty one at that who was underhanded and a bully. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Peachey
As for teachers supporting the Nats - I haven't come across to many in public schools

[short-circuit]

I'm looking forward to tomorrow -

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[Dodgyiti]

The learning from the Mission Bay park up is;

Make sure you act in a sensible manner when riding in and out of the venue

Make sure your bike and you are legal and parked legally

There wil be a presence of police, uniformed or otherwise, and 'taxpayer paid others' in attendance (aka the man, man) as there was in Mission Bay.

[candor]

I imagine you have your gameplan for questions sorted.

But how about

Why is it that wherever a sane injury prevention method is avauilable ACC opts for revenue over safety every time eg it connives with the NRSC to promotes the long term revenue generating ongoing trauma promoter eg red light cameras not roundabouts or bigger more visibly placed lights or longer oranges or random drug testing (all things recommended by experts as far superior at preventing intersection crashes than red light cams which don't).

Why should we pay - if a proper road safety policy that accounted for evidence was used, one life and many injuries would be saved every other day, giving us parity with similar economies. Maybe this guy should pay...
http://www.unav.es/ecip/english/staff/AnthonyBliss.html

He just told Sweden his Kiwi bred model was in 2008 a “State of the Art approach already tested in low middle and now high income countries” which they ought adopt :buggerd:

Why should we pay more when you cause the accidents by use of the computer program in ‘Visual Basic® which manipulates CAS data to exaggerates the proportion of speed/alcohol in crashes so that interventions are misdirected, and by use of the resource allocation program which produces quotas proven by MoT to increase trauma and ACC claims?

Why would we paty more when Treasuries Pathfinders “intervention logic” project which spells out a process that “…enables management to systematically prioritise outputs to maximise departmental outcomes" is a project breaching the human rights and occupational safety laws, as the selected “impact measures” (much promoted by ACC) are ones that are ineffective, and furthermore predicted by your own software to only have the impact of creating more trauma?

Are you aware that our appalling International safety record caused by your policies is reflected in worlds worst accident compo costs - the Motor Vehicle Account represents the greatest component of the ACC liabilities. Based upon the current rate of increase the 2009 ACC Motor Vehicle Account Liabilities which stand at $6,845,000,000 (up from 1.7B in 2002) will have increased 600% in under a decade to $12,475,000,000 by 2011 !
Source: ACC Annual Reports (OIA 1982 request).
This is a second or perhaps third world portion of GDP down the gurgler.

Are you aware that even among the horrendous statistics its not us but car drivers draining ACC so if you force more of us into old vehicles this will not have the anticipated effect - we remain an unacceptable risk and also pose a greater risk to others.
• As at 2007, New Zealand had the FIFTH WORST percentage reduction in Road Deaths since 2000 and was among the highest in %age increases for serious injury. (Source IRTAD 2008). Spinal injuries total went from 191 in 2002 to 276 last year –and the rise is attributable to car occupants

How can ACC expect any motorist to pay evermore for its mistakes... given it took the 2006 advice from MoT scientists working on developing the NZ road safety resource allocation model for the world bank which said (quote) "we can ignore the results and try to believe we have the right system," and given that despite these results saying your clowny program only increases road trauma and social costs you proceeded to increase the dose of it, by doing evermore breath tests etc. Isn't that like committing assault and manslaughters to get revenue in petty cash then topping up to pay the injury bill by fining the mass victims?

Are you happy to plough on with the current national road "safety" trial and if so who gets hit next?

And finally, why is it that you had the advice of mensa members in your advisory panel but you long chose to ignore it then sacked the messengers last week - its not like Tony Bliss of the World bank has more than a dated graduate degree in far right economics, yet it is his word goes???

[DEVVIL]

The (dis)honorable Nick Smith
When you speak all I can hear is
BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!! BULLSHIT!!
So please fuck off and die.
I like the BULLSHIT!! part and will leave the rest to you guys!! Are we using one park each? Not to tight :scooter:

[The Everlasting]

I will attend,I am sick of this government trying to price us off the road!

[blossomsowner]

think i will try and find my way there too........anyone from southside want company on the ride up?

[DEVVIL]

think i will try and find my way there too........anyone from southside want company on the ride up?

Im in for that when and where:scooter:

[raster]

One thing I would like to ask:

If we have to spend so much on Climate Change reforms, why is the government not promoting the most efficient form of personal transport in the world, The excuse that it is dangerous falls flat when cycling is promoted and the road furnature being installed all over the roads is more dangerous to motorcycles than it has ever been?

[Ixion]

Meet up at Okahu Bay (by the toilets) 6:30pm. Hed to the Yacht Club at 7:oo.

We will have some mufti bikers there to confuse the cahiman

If we get enough riders we'll station a squad outside, but inside has priority.

I will ahve some questions printe dout for distributuon, and of course bring your own.

Tyr to avoid them being the ones that have been around the loop several times, he'll have his answers pat for those.

OBJECTIVES

What do we want to achieve:



To show the Minsiter as either domineering or not in control of his ministry (depending on his replies)
To suggest to the public that THEY'RE NEXT. And highlight that the government has an agenda that is a lot bigger than bikers.
To remind the public that it's not only bikers that are getting levy increases. Every wage earner is going to have the levy that is taken out of his pay packet each week increased. Most people will be paying between $500 and $1000 more a year. It's just that we pay TWICE. Joe Q is going to pay more too.
To highlight the unfairness of the ACC levy system for multi vehicle owners (be they car or bike)
To highlight that the proposal to split bikes by size is stupid, based on no rational facts, and flies in the face of the ACCs own figures
And, since the SUnday Star has leaked that ACC are going to stick to their original levy sizes, to suggets that there is more to it than bean counting and that John Judge is using his position to indulge in social engineering, trying to force motorcycles off the road (I think we can run with this now, JJs stubbornness makes his motives questionable)


Akahu Bay. 6:30.

[Chisanga]

And I can't think of any online way to discuss things that can't be snooped

mailing/discussion list that is membership controlled as opposed to self registration maybe the host of this site would set one up for you

Maybe someone can collect our e-mail addresses on Monday night for those interested in further action?

[Hanne]

Maybe someone can collect our e-mail addresses on Monday night for those interested in further action?

Yep, for those who did not sign the petition with an email address and have not been receiving email updates I will bring some sign up sheets and add you to the BRONZ mailing list. We have an email going out once a week atm. Alternatively you can send me a PM with name and email address and I will add you that way.

[Ixion]

Fielding lots of calls from the press. Reporters will be there. I've promised them 100 bikes. Don't let us down folks

[drummer]

Hi Folks

I'll be there early.. unfortunately in a car... Bikes off road due to CAR hitting my Buell and others in storage...

The meeting has been confirmed again so is definitely on.

The latest from a newsletter...

Upcoming Event TONIGHT:
Monday 30 November: Public meeting with Hon Nick Smith, Minister for the Environment,
Climate Change Issues and ACC, National MP for Nelson, 7.30pm at
Royal Akarana Yacht Club, Okahu Bay.

See you there and as said... minimum of 100 bikers hopefully many more.

Regards

Peter

[drummer]

Just had a email saying Reckless has asked there not to be a fall yout between "you two guys". I am unsure of what or who he means but if its SS and myself, i will be as I am on all these occassions very professional and lawful. If SS or anyone else for that matter tries to hijack the meeting with their own agenda or by violence or aguing with his or her fellow bikers I think we all (the ones who care) ensure that person is distanced from the rest of us... it is paramount to our cause that we act like mature people. Any foolish activity or open abuse should not be tolerated. As a personal note.. SS if you approach me please for the sake of the meeting do not argue or try to engage me in any kind of debate... the only thing I am interested in is the collective outcome of the night which is to ensure Nick Smith AND the meeting in general knows beyond doubt that the proposed levy increases will not be tolerated and are grossly unfair.

Lets be unified in that cause folks. For the record, I'll be wearing a worn AGVsport "classic leather" jacket with a NZ Music month shirt on with a guitar string logo on the front.

Take care and see you there.

Peter

[drummer]

Fielding lots of calls from the press. Reporters will be there. I've promised them 100 bikes. Don't let us down folks
Thats good... Hope TV there as well as papers

Peter

[Reckless]

Just had a email saying Reckless??

Shit that was blimmimg quick, (btw wasn't me that emailed) post was only up for about 60 secs or so before I deleted it?? Actually a bit of a mistake, instead of clicking last page, I clicked on main heading, and got page one and saw those hard out posts there, typed my post, then realised I was way out of sync and quickly deleted it.
Teach me to try an work and post at the same time! So at ease all!

[drummer]

Shit that was blimmimg quick, (btw wasn't me that emailed) post was only up for about 60 secs or so before I deleted it?? Actually a bit of a mistake, instead of clicking last page I clicked on main heading and got page one and saw those hard out posts there, typed my post, then realised I was way out of sync and quickly deleted it.
Teach me to try an work and post at the same time! So at ease all!
You make a good point though.... see you there

Peter

[scissorhands]

A few noisey bikes about town today....

[flyingcrocodile46]

Fielding lots of calls from the press. Reporters will be there. I've promised them 100 bikes. Don't let us down folks

Will be 6 or 8 of us BFTP lads there.

But not next to the toilets:no:. Will be hanging around at the first entrance (nearest city) at 7:00 to eat our Pizza. Don't bother coming over to see us until we's finished eating. We don't want no trouble :yes:

[Ixion]

List of questions. Add your own. I'll ahve hard copies of the oens below

<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith , how do you reconcile your environmental responsibilities with the fact that, as ACC Minister , you are trying to force motorcycles off the road, when motorcycles are agreed to be an environmental plus, reducing congestion and emissions and pollution .
<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith, the country is wondering who’s in charge of ACC.ACC is a Crown Entity, responsible to a Minister of the Crown, you. But John Judge doesn’t seem to be taking much notice of that. He’s always turned ACC into an insurance company (despite the Act saying it isn’t one). Now, you’ve publicly said that “I think that motorcycle levies won’t be as high as in the proposals”. But Mr Judge isn’t taking any notice . He’s told you to suck the kumara – he hates motorcycles and they’re going to get the levy the whole levy and nothing but the levy. So is Mr Judge a loose cannon who needs to taken in hand ; or have you lost control of your portfolio ?
<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith, John Judge has rebranded ACC as an insurance company. The Act specifically says it isn’t. Was this change made with your approval
<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith, motorcyclists hold or significantly influence about 250000 votes. At the last election those voters split about 70% for National or Act. And right now every motorcyclist hates National. Are you comfortable alienating that many voters? Are your marginal electorate colleagues also comfortable?
<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith, motorcyclist are being supported in this campaign by the general public, in a way that hasn’t ever been seen before. They’re doing that because they do NOT want the Woodhouse principles upon which ACC is based overturned. And you are hell bent on overturning them. Why are you allowing the obsession of a narrow group of ideological zealots to override the will of the people?
<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith, Mr McLea has suggested that ACC intend that those who indulge in risky pastimes like rugby and mountain biking will pay higher levies through the levy on wages. Does that mean a targeted levy against sports groups? And if not, why , of those whose pastimes are higher risk, are motorcycles , and motorcycles only, targeted to be levied twice – once through their wages levy and once through their licensing levy ?
<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith. I don’t indulge in risky pastimes like mountain biking. But I pay the same wages levy as those who do. Why am I subsiding mountain bikers, and when is ACC going to remove that subsidy
<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith do you think that the public realise that EVERY earner is going to pay an extra $500 to $1000 each year. Not just motorcyclists?
<o>> </o>>
Mr Smith isn’t it about time you came clean with the REAL agenda for ACC?

[drummer]

OK... thi seems to have developed into a down the Nick Smith campaign... I am not repeat not in favour of getting the rest of the crowd offside.. for goodness sake... e need to be a little mature... It was the ACC who proposed the rises... Smith agreed to a reduced amount still too much and in my books any more than cars is too much.. what e need to do is move the public thinkinjg as well as making Smith look incompetant... lets not allow our emotions to go to our heads...

Keep your cool folks..

Peter

[MSTRS]

Mr Smith - In attempting to show that there are more crashes now, when the reality is that there are actually less crashes per 1000 motorcycle now, than there was in years past...Why have you used the serious crash number from 1998 in comparison with the total crash number for 2008?

[MSTRS]

I do wish I could be a fly on the wall. Will anyone be videoing things?

[klingon]

It's 6:45! The team will be gathering! Nick and his gang will be shaking in their shoes! I wish I could be there!! :jerry:

Oh well, I will just wait here for the first reports to filter through... :yes:

[Ronin]

Mr Smith, is it true that you smoke cock.



Couldn't resist that one.

[Ronin]

It's 6:45! The team will be gathering! Nick and his gang will be shaking in their shoes! I wish I could be there!! :jerry:

Oh well, I will just wait here for the first reports to filter through... :yes:

Must watch the late news tonight. The Rock reported at 5 that Nick was in for a rough night.

[klingon]

Where are they?! <_<

They've either taken Mr Smith to the pub to thank him for backing down... or they're all taking a ride in the back of a paddy-wagon... :pinch:

[jafar]

Where are they?! <_<

They've either taken Mr Smith to the pub to thank him for backing down... or they're all taking a ride in the back of a paddy-wagon... :pinch:

They could be chatting up the girls from rape crisis or whoever the other group there is :Oops:

[dpex]

It was a good turnout. Smith, as he usually does, did the teflon coated number on most questions, but didn't get it all his own way, and he was caught out seriously contradicting himself....while on camera. :--))))

Anyway, tomorrow night there is a much juicier target. Mr Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi has invited the public to the opening of the new offices at 131 Kolmar Rd, Papatoetoe. Free food, BTW:

However, Kanwaljit is a new member, a back-bencher, and will have nowhere near the gross arrogance enjoyed by Smith. So we all need to be there.

[Oakie]

A soft target AND free food!

[dpex]

From the mouth of the minister. 'ACC is an insurance scheme.'

It follows that the way is now open for non-claimants in any year to claim a no-claims reduction. Also, the way is now open for us all to sue those who cause us grief.

[jafar]

A soft target AND free food!

:heart:free food:drinknsin:ride:

[Mully]

Onya Dpex.

Sorry I couldn't make it - too much wedding shit to do.