Westfield Mall protest support

[PhantasmNZ]

I'm interested to find out the split of KB'ers who support protesting malls. My veiws are clear in other threads - but trying to work out the weight of opinion is quite hard in terms of numbers of people.

Thought I'd post a poll about it...

[Ixion]

It really depends on how it is done. People WILL accept some inconvience from protests IF they can see the reason it is being done.

So , lots of signs, leaflets, polite explanations when challenged etc, will usually get acceptance.

Just inconveniencing people for the sake of it, and they can't see a reason, you'll piss them off.

Problem with malls is that usually the management won't allow the signs , leaflets etc. So the public just have the hassle and don't really know why. And get pissed off by it.

[LBD]

Council owned public carparks or long lengths of popular parking streets ...Yes

Privatly owned carparks...no

[Maha]

All those Westie blokes dragged by thier woman to go Xmas shopping? I dont think they will see the humour in 'cant find a fucking park'!...:bash:

[CookMySock]

What have you have effectively done, is announce to the world that this action is disapproved of by almost all members of this forum.

Aside from satisfying your own personal curiosity, there is little other purpose except to announce to the world that these people are outcasts. Why would you do that? :weird:

Steve

[Jantar]

There are two issues with protesting at malls that work against us.

The first one is that because of the size of the parking area at most malls the number of bike involved must also be huge. Many hundreds or even thousands would be reuired not just a couple of hundred.

the next issue is that we would be protesting to the wrong people. Its politicians and ACC bosses that we need to target, not Mum and Dad doing their Xmas shopping or the small business owners in the Mall. These people are the ones we want on our side.

The type of parking protest carried out last sunday is perfect. it was short lived, made a point and didn't inconvenience many people at all.

[Katman]

What have you have effectively done, is announce to the world that this action is disapproved of by almost all members of this forum.



So what does that tell you, Einstein?

[Gixxer 4 ever]

What have you have effectively done, is announce to the world that this action is disapproved of by almost all members of this forum.
Steve

Edit. I have said enough on this matter. But it is clear to me what people think.

[Ronin]

What have you have effectively done, is announce to the world that this action is disapproved of by almost all members of this forum.

Aside from satisfying your own personal curiosity, there is little other purpose except to announce to the world that these people are outcasts. Why would you do that? :weird:

Steve

Because he doesn't want the world at large to assume that all bikers support it. That's fairly obvious isn't it?

[dpex]

What have you have effectively done, is announce to the world that this action is disapproved of by almost all members of this forum.

Aside from satisfying your own personal curiosity, there is little other purpose except to announce to the world that these people are outcasts. Why would you do that? :weird:

Steve

I have yet to have any person tell me what difference it would make if I turned up in either of my cages, or on my bike.

So let me try again.

It is the visual impact which is important, not the spaces taken.

For example. At Westfield, West Auckland, on the ground floor (East) there are 108 parking spaces which are normally graced with 108 cages. The visual effect being, that area is filled up.

Now try...and I do stress try to develop a little imagination here....of the same spaces inhabited by 108 bikes. Each of which is there while the owner has a coffee, buys a pie, wanders around, etc.

The visual impact would create the perception the place was empty, accept for these fucking bikers.

But would that same perception intrude if the place was filled with cages?

No!

I normally fin a small rabbit hole in front of a cage to park my bike. Thus I normally take up no extra space, yet I go forth and spend in the malls.

This way....by parking in a whole space I'm doing nothing more than parking. Bike, cage, van. What's the difference?

The difference is the visual impact.

Jesus H Christ, I get more sense out of rabbits than some of you lot.

What is it that you don't understand about the right to park your bike in a mall?

What is it you don't understand about making a mall car-park 'look' empty?

What is that you don't understand about the fact that a simple bikoi to Wellington will gain us about as much value as a cat-flap in an elephant house?

What is it about the proposed rape of bikers you don't understand?

What is it you don't understand about getting proactive?

Guy Fawkes would have been ashamed of you all.

[nothingflash]

Council owned public carparks or long lengths of popular parking streets ...Yes

Privatly owned carparks...no

/\ what he said

[Maha]

''Jesus H Christ, I get more sense out of rabbits than some of you lot''.

If you wait till Easter next year, maybe, just maybe it will all become clear?
Pesky wabbits.

[Ronin]

What is it that you don't understand about the right to park your bike in a mall?

What is it you don't understand about making a mall car-park 'look' empty?

What is that you don't understand about the fact that a simple bikoi to Wellington will gain us about as much value as a cat-flap in an elephant house?

What is it about the proposed rape of bikers you don't understand?

What is it you don't understand about getting proactive?

Guy Fawkes would have been ashamed of you all.

You are confusing not agreeing with or supporting your choice with not understanding.

Yes you have a right as a shopper in the Mall to park there.

Yup, get the whole 'empty' analogy.

Simple Bikoi? Nothing simple about the organisation from the volunteers or the time and effort 10,000 odd bikers put into getting there.

Yes it is a rape of bikers, and cagers, and workers.

If you want to get pro active then pick something that the media will pay attention to and that has the support of the people you purport to represent.

[Katman]

The visual impact would create the perception the place was empty, except for these fucking bikers.



I rest my case.

[MadDuck]

.... is announce to the world that this action is disapproved of by almost all members of this forum.

So 51 votes is almost all the members? Good one Steve. That is called propoganda and misrepresenting the statistics. Maybe you should consider media liason for the National party or ACC


Now try...and I do stress try to develop a little imagination here....of the same spaces inhabited by 108 bikes. Each of which is there while the owner has a coffee, buys a pie, wanders around, etc.

If you not think the retail businesses will not be adversely effected you really need help. Bikers wandering around buying pies and a coffee is going to be detrimental to their Christmas takings.

[BMWST?]

...... accept for these fucking bikers.



you said it...

[Max Headroom]

DPEX, I've read your post and considered your position. For one thing, i don't respond favourably when I feel like I'm being bullied into doing anything. For another thing, your argument is fundamentally flawed.

If the primary function of a Westfield mall was to sell coffee, we would be welcomed. If most of the shops within a Westfield mall sold food, there would be no concerns carrying out a protest there, but it's not. We would be hindering the business of retailers whose product range predominantly include clothing, electrical goods and furniture and who have no interest in "our cause". The fact that we would be presuming on Westfields' privately owned open gate to do this will only create negative attitudes toward us. And even if you do manage to get 108 bikes to fill a floor at Henderson, who is going to see it?

Mission Bay on the other hand consists almost entirely of food & coffee retailers surrounded by public council-owned carparking in full view. We are legitimate shoppers/consumers in that setting, which is quite a different dynamic.

If this protest goes ahead, i wish you the best of luck but don't attempt to suggest or imply that your protest is supported widely by NZ motorcyclists if you do.

P.S. Does anyone have a good understanding of the laws regarding "unlawful assembly" and how they are applied, particularly to motorcycle "gangs"?

[jetboy]

Yeah I have been to pretty much every protest event I could go to, however I believe this is not the best way to go about it. As previous posts have highlighted you will be disrupting Christmas shopping (something which people loathe anyway, let alone trying to find a bloody carpark with all these "asshole bikers being disruptive"), plus it's not fair on the retailers inside the mall.

Kudos for coming up with an idea though - refine it a bit and I'm sure you'll get more support!

[PhantasmNZ]

What have you have effectively done, is announce to the world that this action is disapproved of by almost all members of this forum.

Aside from satisfying your own personal curiosity, there is little other purpose except to announce to the world that these people are outcasts. Why would you do that? :weird:

Steve

Thanks to those who also answered this question :)

It's interesting that you assert that this action is widely disapproved of - i for example deliberately did not discuss my position when I opened the thread. Participation in discussion by the highly vocal few does not in fact represent the weight of opinion - my interest was also in the more silent majority.

I don't (didn't?) presume to know where the weight of opinion actually lay - but the poll, and additional post here seem to confirm your view - that in general most BIKERS here seem to disapprove.

70-odd people still doesn't represent even a small number of "all visitors to this forum" - but your assertion that showing what the split of opinion is to be a bad thing - that's even more confusing?! A reporter or ACC mole trolling the site will in fact quite readily come up with the "most bikers disapprove" conclusion based on for and against posts in the sticky - if this poll had, for example , shown that there was actually a silent majority in favour - would you have reacted the same?

Let's be clear, that when I put the post up there were NO poll entries - so how could it be that I set out to show moles that most bikers were against this idea?

Fill car parks - yes I think that creates a bold statement - we did it last week. Fill private mall car parks - well, that's up to each of you out there whether or not that's the 'right thing' to do - YMMV

[Tunahunter]

I have yet to have any person tell me what difference it would make if I turned up in either of my cages, or on my bike.

So let me try again.

It is the visual impact which is important, not the spaces taken.

For example. At Westfield, West Auckland, on the ground floor (East) there are 108 parking spaces which are normally graced with 108 cages. The visual effect being, that area is filled up.

Now try...and I do stress try to develop a little imagination here....of the same spaces inhabited by 108 bikes. Each of which is there while the owner has a coffee, buys a pie, wanders around, etc.

The visual impact would create the perception the place was empty, accept for these fucking bikers.

But would that same perception intrude if the place was filled with cages?

No!

I normally fin a small rabbit hole in front of a cage to park my bike. Thus I normally take up no extra space, yet I go forth and spend in the malls.

This way....by parking in a whole space I'm doing nothing more than parking. Bike, cage, van. What's the difference?

The difference is the visual impact.

Jesus H Christ, I get more sense out of rabbits than some of you lot.

What is it that you don't understand about the right to park your bike in a mall?

What is it you don't understand about making a mall car-park 'look' empty?

What is that you don't understand about the fact that a simple bikoi to Wellington will gain us about as much value as a cat-flap in an elephant house?

What is it about the proposed rape of bikers you don't understand?

What is it you don't understand about getting proactive?

Guy Fawkes would have been ashamed of you all.
That is illogical Ronin

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Participation in discussion by the highly vocal few does not in fact represent the weight of opinion - my interest was also in the more silent majority.




I voiced this very idea in our local H/B thread, along with three other riders, and got in to a lot of strife on the thread. However the PMs and Emails indicated differently. Our thread was sent to the sin bin and I have fallen out with one of our local riders over it. Such is life and shit happens but I am pleased to see you have put this up. We will all end up back in Wellington over this and we need to make sure it is a big protest next time.




Guy Fawkes would have been ashamed of you all.

He did well didn't he? :innocent:

[yungatart]

We ran a local parking protest in a street in HB. We parked up outside a local cafe, sat outside there at one of their tables, availing ourselves of their scrummy food and divine coffee. We got lots of support from the public and the cafe owner was more than happy for us to be there. Why wouldn't he be? We were spending our money with him!
It was not well patronised by local bikers, very poorly, in fact, but we tried.....
However, I would not support a protest that purely took up car parks and prevented valid users from accessing them, if I was not legitimately on the premises, i.e. purchasing goods.
I don't hold with inconveniencing the public and shafting the retailer at all...not a good look for bikers...and nobody wins.
The Mission Bay, HB and Taranaki protests were different and wholeheartedly get my support.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

It was not well patronised by local bikers, very poorly, in fact, but we tried.....
.

And the fact that you made the effort is great. Well done u 2

[MSTRS]

I, too, add my vote against deliberately setting out to piss anyone off. It is counter-productive to our cause. As others have said, setting up for an hour (or 2. maybe) at a cafe is one thing, but for me, malls etc are a no-no.

[Swoop]

If "media exposure" is required, why not fill up a carpark with bikes and get plenty of photographs taken of this? Just do it at a time that does not piss off the public!

Perhaps gather up the assembled people then provide a total number?
Do the same with a carpark filled with cars...

THEN move all the bikes into a smaller space, to show the area required where we can park, yet still have the same amount of customers.

[MiniFlick]

Well I have to do my xmas shopping too sometime so the where and when and Im in, just how to carry all my shopping on the Harley?? mmm?

[bogan]

If "media exposure" is required, why not fill up a carpark with bikes and get plenty of photographs taken of this? Just do it at a time that does not piss off the public!

Perhaps gather up the assembled people then provide a total number?
Do the same with a carpark filled with cars...

THEN move all the bikes into a smaller space, to show the area required where we can park, yet still have the same amount of customers.

+1 for this, I perhaps voted in haste (for the protest) assuming it would be like the bikeoi, designed to make an impact in the media etc but not to piss anyone off more than is required.

[Ronin]

That is illogical Ronin

Not as illogical as quoting the wrong post.....

[Ronin]

If "media exposure" is required, why not fill up a carpark with bikes and get plenty of photographs taken of this? Just do it at a time that does not piss off the public!

Perhaps gather up the assembled people then provide a total number?
Do the same with a carpark filled with cars...

THEN move all the bikes into a smaller space, to show the area required where we can park, yet still have the same amount of customers.

Now see, that's a clever idea.

[Ronin]

Speaks for itself.

http://cracker666.wordpress.com/2009/11/20/more-idiocy-from-the-bludgers/


Yep, that’s right, hose off the people you are trying to get on-side. This guy is clearly a genius…

“Motorcycle protesters are threatening to block shopping mall car parks unless the Government abandons proposed accident compensation levy rises. They revealed yesterday a plan to “shut down” one of the Westfield retail group’s nine Auckland malls on Saturday next week by filling its parking spaces with “a conglomerate of bikers, taxis, couriers and truckies”. Unlike protests planned for this weekend, including a rally on Sunday morning in Mission Bay, the shopping mall action is not sanctioned by the Bikers Rights Organisation of New Zealand (Bronz), which organised this week’s “bikoi” to Parliament.
But an email sent to the Herald by veteran motorcyclist and former businessman David Peppiatt said shopping malls would be targeted until the Government backed down on the compensation levies.”

See kids, this is what happens when you have one bike accident too many…

[Nasty]

Or go public get a backlash ... and back out.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=113693

[Flip]

Waste of time targeting malls. Its the wrong target group, in the wrong place.

Mums and kids, are the wrong group. All the privately owned malls have to do is have you towed and or stick a trespass order on you. Probably turn very nasty very quickly and will involve the police and the media.

[Tunahunter]

Sorry about that Ronin

[Quasievil]

Retailers have had a crapola year this year and need the Xmas trading, some are banking on it to keep afloat.
To throw a bunch of bikers blocking the malls will hurt them.......thats not fair, as isnt the ACC levies, but dont go fucking around with other NZrs incomes just because you have had a hint of a ACC levy increase.

So I wont and dont support it, keep it away from the malls.:2guns:

[Azalrac]

The whole idea of protesting at malls shows the same sort of inspired genius that the cyclists who took over the Harbour Bridge demonstrated. Now just about every motorist in Auckland has a pathological hatred for cyclists and oppose their causes on general principle. I do not want to share the road with hundreds of angry members of the public. The 80% public support we currently enjoy will evaporate and people will write in to Nick Smith asking him to make the levies even higher. (I know I would). A much better place to target is ACC itself as they are the ones playing at social enginnering through taxation. Denying retailers their business and the public their ability to do their shopping is quite simply flawed in its conception and a good way to turn the situation to Nick Smith's advantage.

[Forest]

Council owned public carparks or long lengths of popular parking streets ...Yes

Privatly owned carparks...no

Couldn't put it better.

[pornoshauno]

Hell yeah!,i wouldnt hesitate to protest at the local shopping mall.firstly i own 2 motorcycles and no cars.i already pay more rego than the steel coffins and the way i see it as long as my bike is regoed and warranted and i got my licence im gonna park my bike where th f#%k i want!im so wound up about the proposed levies i got my own protest t shirt made up.....
"nz bikers v acc.
Another
corrupt
corporation"
"nz bikers v acc
another
cash cow
corporation"
and my bike is plastered with anti acc slogans which will stay on there until this insanity ends!!!