SS150 allowed slicks or not?

[woodyracer]

Hae im new to ss150, jus go myself a krr150, whats the situation on tyres in this class? [yes i know there's older forums on this, but i guessing the rules have changed since then} can you run old 125gp slicks?

Thanks -Max

[WarrenW]

Check the mnz website, it seems to contradict itself.
Rule 22-10-12

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Chapter_22_Road_Racing.pdf

[Shaun]

Hae im new to ss150, jus go myself a krr150, whats the situation on tyres in this class? [yes i know there's older forums on this, but i guessing the rules have changed since then} can you run old 125gp slicks?

Thanks -Max


Just PM OYSTER on here, and he will give you Facts, Not CRAP

[lostinflyz]

yea oyster will give you the run down. He was running it through it with us.

Is it just me or should we vote for Mr. Jones to become the 150 rule book??? haha.

[xr-rider]

Hae im new to ss150, jus go myself a krr150, whats the situation on tyres in this class? [yes i know there's older forums on this, but i guessing the rules have changed since then} can you run old 125gp slicks?

Thanks -Max

in the north island you have to have road legal tire from my understanding. no slicks or wets

[oyster]

MNZ rules are not too hard to interpret. Essentially you can slicks, road legal tyres or wets as long as the rim to tyre fit is within the tyre manufacture's recommendations. It's a bit clumsy and has a few anomalies but that's how it is (most rules are like that!)

But, if a club gets special rules (called supplementary rules), this can change. I don't know of Auckland or Pacific club rules, but I assume they adhere to MNZ. But the Vic Club is quite different, it only allows DOT tyres, which generally means "road legal"

[gatch]

Funnily enough the 250 class seems to allow wets, aaaaaaaand tyre warmers..

I wonder what the story is there :tugger:

[oyster]

MNZ rules allow wets for 150's.

[gatch]

MNZ rules allow wets for 150's.

Sorry, I meant with the vic club, not sure what the other clubs take is..

[Shaun]

Sorry, I meant with the vic club, not sure what the other clubs take is..

Email the Vic club direct mate, the Internet can give you a lot of false info. ONLY trust Oyster re the 150 class on here, or the club or MNZ them self

[ajturbo]

MNZ rules are not too hard to interpret. Essentially you can slicks, road legal tyres or wets as long as the rim to tyre fit is within the tyre manufacture's recommendations. It's a bit clumsy and has a few anomalies but that's how it is (most rules are like that!)

But, if a club gets special rules (called supplementary rules), this can change. I don't know of Auckland or Pacific club rules, but I assume they adhere to MNZ. But the Vic Club is quite different, it only allows DOT tyres, which generally means "road legal"
this is correct.. all due to a certain MNZ rep


i am the Vic club's Junior road race coordinator... so i know all!!!

[ajturbo]

Funnily enough the 250 class seems to allow wets, aaaaaaaand tyre warmers..

I wonder what the story is there :tugger:
wets.... tyre warmers???? WTF???

[woodyracer]

thanks for all your input, hopefully they'll change the rules {vic club] so that you can run seconds hand slicks because by doing that your supporting nz racers......

ATM the bikes got tt900's, so they better last, cos i they dont make them anymore and BT39's have limited performance.

Tire warmers?? i deffinitly hope we cant run them......their expensive and we dont even need them, although saying that, if anyone uses them they'll have a huge advantage.

[gatch]

I think in the vic clubs situation (dont know about the other clubs), it was the fellow who sponsored the 250 class, may have managed to sneak in some supplementary rules to suit the bike he had already..

[ajturbo]

I think in the vic clubs situation (dont know about the other clubs), it was the fellow who sponsored the 250 class, may have managed to sneak in some supplementary rules to suit the bike he had already..
wow.. thats news to me....

[gatch]

wow.. thats news to me....

taken from vic club website
http://www.vicclub.co.nz/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=468&highlight=minilite%20rules

Rear shocks
If the original shock needs to be replaced and an original OEM exact shock cannot be sourced, a similar OEM fitment shock is permissible for use. E.g. Fitting a rear shock from a 1991 GSXR250 in a 1991 ZXR250. The replacement shock must be of similar specification, dimension and/or period available for the original model and its variants.

Tyre warmers
Can be used in “Mini Lite 250” class

Tyres
Only tyre sizes that are suitable for the rim size of that model bike, according to the tyre manufacturers specifications, are permissible. Race style DOT road legal tyres are permissible.
If in the event of a “WET RACE” an alternative DOT tyre (refer to the preceding regulation) can be used with different tread. E.g. Bridgestone BT45 to suit the conditions.
Hand cut DOT size race tyres will be allowed. E.g. Dunlop GPR-a10 in the event of a “WET RACE”.
Non-DOT approved tyres will not be allowed. E.g. Race Slicks and Race Wets.

Now I KNOW that from being up close with some of the bikes, that the rules have been bent.

[ajturbo]

it was the fellow who sponsored the 250 class, may have managed to sneak in some supplementary rules to suit the bike he had already..

let me repeat myself...

wow that is news to me.....

as this rule came in 2 full years before the 250cc class was introduced.....

now you ARE talking about the SS150 class still right?

[gatch]

let me repeat myself...

wow that is news to me.....

as this rule came in 2 full years before the 250cc class was introduced.....

now you ARE talking about the SS150 class still right?

No, 250s.. I don't know when the 250 race was introduced.

Why be so sarcastic ? Its not doing anyone any good.

[woodyracer]

lets not fight now :cool:, i do agree with AJTURBO, because even the new hyosung 250 class isnt allowed tyre warmers......

Ive spent enogh money buying the bike, and it would be good not having people who are racing me running tyre warmers.

[budda]

just get yourself a set of BT39SS's and enjoy yourself man - thats what its all about, isnt it ?
Dunno where you got the "limited performance" idea from, work well in New Zealand, not sure about Pig Island

[quallman1234]

Argh this has been covered in a thread spanning freak'n many many pages.

Road Legal dot tyres only, for the vic series. South Islander's run slicks.
If you have a problem, get the vic series supplementary rules change.

[woodyracer]

they have the rules for a reason i guess......so ill jsut go along with them.

bt39's are limited compared with my tyres on my bucket {125gp slicks} so i was hopeing to have them same amazing grip on my ss150...

[Duke girl]

On my RG 150 Suzuki Streetstock I have Bridgestone BT-39F SS which are Awesome Tyres as they have excellent grip which I found out a couple of weekends ago when I attended the Suzuki Track Day and went out there in the rain, and they never once slipped out on me.

Each to their own but they are the tyres I will be sticking with.

[woodyracer]

On my RG 150 Suzuki Streetstock I have Bridgestone BT-39F SS which are Awesome Tyres as they have excellent grip which I found out a couple of weekends ago when I attended the Suzuki Track Day and went out there in the rain, and they never once slipped out on me.

Each to their own but they are the tyres I will be sticking with.

yes, there great in the wet and the hot, but i used to have a pair on my fxr150, and in the cold they felt slippery.

I got the bike today, looks awsome but it it has a slick on the front.....and with the TTRRS coming im going to have to find out if i can run an old front slick or not.....otherwise its BT39 time!!

[oyster]

Argh this has been covered in a thread spanning freak'n many many pages.

Road Legal dot tyres only, for the vic series. South Islander's run slicks.
If you have a problem, get the vic series supplementary rules change.
A minor point here, the Dunlops and Bridgestone are not DOT. They are JIS and other brands, (Pirelli etc) are EU> Just wording tho, what's meant is "road legal"
Are you sure all the NI clubs run Supp rules the same as the Vic Club?
I thought all clubs except the Vic club ran MNZ rules. Woody needs to know if he's riding at Taupo or Auckland if it's MNZ or Vic rules.

The BT39ss and TT900 are good, and will last well if ridden well below lap record pace. So, for example if someone does 2.03 around Ruapuna and 1.32 round Manfeild, they're fine. But if people are doing '54's and '25's
respectively, these types of tyre will only be good for a few meetings at the most. They "feather up" big time and don't necessarily lose their grip, but lose stability and feel. When the grip goes it goes with a "bang", literally. The slicks are no faster, the bike layout/suspension largely controls that. The lap records are on treaded road legal tyres, but, of couurse, brand new. But the slick's benefit is stability, feel and VERY long life, no matter how hard they're ridden. And when they finally wear out, they just "fade away" with no sudden loss of ability to "bite" the rider without warning. After all, they're a race tyre, not a glorified commuter tyre.

[ajturbo]

thanks "oyster"... i have used the slicks and i still recone they are the way to go.... but along with peter... these words fall on deaf ears.....

[woodyracer]

A minor point here, the Dunlops and Bridgestone are not DOT. They are JIS and other brands, (Pirelli etc) are EU> Just wording tho, what's meant is "road legal"
Are you sure all the NI clubs run Supp rules the same as the Vic Club?
I thought all clubs except the Vic club ran MNZ rules. Woody needs to know if he's riding at Taupo or Auckland if it's MNZ or Vic rules.

The BT39ss and TT900 are good, and will last well if ridden well below lap record pace. So, for example if someone does 2.03 around Ruapuna and 1.32 round Manfeild, they're fine. But if people are doing '54's and '25's
respectively, these types of tyre will only be good for a few meetings at the most. They "feather up" big time and don't necessarily lose their grip, but lose stability and feel. When the grip goes it goes with a "bang", literally. The slicks are no faster, the bike layout/suspension largely controls that. The lap records are on treaded road legal tyres, but, of couurse, brand new. But the slick's benefit is stability, feel and VERY long life, no matter how hard they're ridden. And when they finally wear out, they just "fade away" with no sudden loss of ability to "bite" the rider without warning. After all, they're a race tyre, not a glorified commuter tyre.

thanks oyster, ive PM'ed the TRRS fella's about their rules on this issue....
im with you on the bt39's and tt900's, im not new to racing and i do hang off the bike alot campared to other riders.....so tire grip is very important for me, im used to 125gp tires which in my opinion have unlimited potentual......even in the wet i thought they were good! :shit:

i dont have limited money for new tires becasue im saving up for a pro-twin bike when im older.....so bt39's would not be well suited for me....

Cheers -Max

[Str8 Jacket]

Jeebus, I am going to be using my winter series tyres @ Taupo on my RG. I use TT900's, I don't hang of my bike but I do get pretty close to the edge of the tyre to the point of chamber scraping (doh!) and they have done me very well and still have a decent life left in them. TBH didn't even think of using anything different cause im so used to Vic Club rules....

I use BT's on my FXR for commuting and Bucket Racing and have no probs with them either.

While I am not one of the "faster riders" I can personally say that I have had no problems with either in the wet and rain on the track and on the road. I know of many other SS's @ Vic Club that ran one or the other with no probs either. Though I am always of the opinion that if you are a good rider you're going to be competitive in something like buckets and/ or SS150's no matter your set up (within reason of course). Racing is always at least 80-90% physchological... Still like to give a decent pair of slicks a go. The last pair I had were fucked and helped to my fine spill at Ruapuna!

[xr-rider]

Jeebus, I am going to be using my winter series tyres @ Taupo on my RG. I use TT900's, I don't hang of my bike but I do get pretty close to the edge of the tyre to the point of chamber scraping (doh!) and they have done me very well and still have a decent life left in them. TBH didn't even think of using anything different cause im so used to Vic Club rules....

I use BT's on my FXR for commuting and Bucket Racing and have no probs with them either.

While I am not one of the "faster riders" I can personally say that I have had no problems with either in the wet and rain on the track and on the road. I know of many other SS's @ Vic Club that ran one or the other with no probs either. Though I am always of the opinion that if you are a good rider you're going to be competitive in something like buckets and/ or SS150's no matter your set up (within reason of course). Racing is always at least 80-90% physchological... Still like to give a decent pair of slicks a go. The last pair I had were fucked and helped to my fine spill at Ruapuna!

i run a bt39s on the front and tt900 on the back. they were second hand when i got them for round 2 of the winter series. they are great tires, i have yet to find the limits of the tires, when the pegs scrap the tires feel like they have plenty of grip left.

[puddytat]

Funnily enough the 250 class seems to allow wets, aaaaaaaand tyre warmers..

I wonder what the story is there :tugger:

MNZ rules state clearly that tyre warmers arnt allowed in Streetstock 250....
"Only tyres on general sale to the public in N.Z as road legal fitment are permitted"
" Front & rear tyres fitted must conform to the tyre importers specifications for the homolgated rim size that model"

[gatch]

MNZ rules state clearly that tyre warmers arnt allowed in Streetstock 250....
"Only tyres on general sale to the public in N.Z as road legal fitment are permitted"
" Front & rear tyres fitted must conform to the tyre importers specifications for the homolgated rim size that model"

It is different for the Vic clubs "minilite" 250 class, it says on the website.

Warmers are allowed.

[puddytat]

Fair enuff, but it makes you wonder how your going to get an even playing field if clubs make up thier own rules....or MNZ for that matter.
Waddaya need warmers for, on a a 30 odd hp bike ? None of the class uses them down here & I didnt see or feel that anyone's fluffing around waiting for thier tyres to warm up in a 4-6lap race....
Not hasslin' ya Gatch, just musing...:whistle::scratch:

[gatch]

I only know one dude that races a 250 in the minilites, he "probably has" (I don't know for sure) the trickest "stock" 250, uses warmers, has a second set of rims with other tyres for wet days. Only to come second for this last season..

hehe

[ajturbo]

I only know one dude that races a 250 in the minilites, he "probably has" (I don't know for sure) the trickest "stock" 250, uses warmers, has a second set of rims with other tyres for wet days. Only to come second for this last season..

hehe
and if you knew the full story, you will know that he missed a couple of races, therefore the important points....

[Billy]

and if you knew the full story, you will know that he missed a couple of races, therefore the important points....

And if he had finished those 2 races He still wouldnt have won it so whats your point ???

[huff3r]

So is the VMCC website current, regarding the bit where it says a 250 four-stroke can run in standard trim in SS150, or can have a few mods and run in minilites.. which is run with SS anyway? I'm just trying to figure out some options to get out racing myself :D

edit:
To make it clear.. would i be able to run a completely standard GSXR250 or similar in with the 150SS without having to worry about the minilite rules, and just following standars SS rules? Because minilites seem a little more complicated and outta my depth for a beginner..

[ajturbo]

And if he had finished those 2 races He still wouldnt have won it so whats your point ???
my point??

i have no point...

:beer::beer::beer:

[woodyracer]

So is the VMCC website current, regarding the bit where it says a 250 four-stroke can run in standard trim in SS150, or can have a few mods and run in minilites.. which is run with SS anyway? I'm just trying to figure out some options to get out racing myself :D

edit:
To make it clear.. would i be able to run a completely standard GSXR250 or similar in with the 150SS without having to worry about the minilite rules, and just following standars SS rules? Because minilites seem a little more complicated and outta my depth for a beginner..

a gsxr250 would be under minilight's....look under the VMCC website they have all the rules on there.

[huff3r]

a gsxr250 would be under minilight's....look under the VMCC website they have all the rules on there.

Umm... yeah, thats what i mean.. its kinda conflictin in that it says the 250 would come under Streetstock if you look at the streetstock rules bit, but then theres alsoo the minilights bit... so is it both options? Or just minilights? Or am i just making up an issue where there isnt one? :confused:


The DESL Motorcycles Streetstock class has come about via a lengthy process of evolution over the past 20 or 25 years. In the late 70’s to mid 80’s we had 250cc Production class which ran 250 cc 2-stroke road bikes (RD, RG, KR to RGV, KR-1 and NSR’s etc). Following the loss of these bikes to cost and attrition the class was abandoned in the late 90’s. At the same time however, 150cc 2-stroke commuter bikes made their appearance on the market. The organisers of the Suzuki Central Roadrace series saw the opportunity to provide an entry level class for novice racers and it really took off as 150 Streetstock. Now that these bikes are also disappearing due to emissions controls internationally and the move to 4-strokes, VMCC have taken the opportunity to evolve the class again to allow 250cc 4-stroke bikes to compete and we simplify the name to Streetstock.

Seems to indicate a completely standard 250 would be part of Streetstock?

[woodyracer]

with the VMCC, you cant run a 250 minilight in ss150, they dont consider them a fair match..as they arnt.... and thats goes for most clubs.

[huff3r]

with the VMCC, you cant run a 250 minilight in ss150, they dont consider them a fair match..as they arnt.... and thats goes for most clubs.

Oh, thats why i was asking as the VMCC site says otherwise. I thought possibly it might be out of date, as otherwise there would be no reason for a "minilight" class.

That quote i got in my previous post was taken directly from the VMCC page on streetstock, but i did notice that page apparently hasnt been updated since approx 2006 or something :Oops:

[woodyracer]

Oh, thats why i was asking as the VMCC site says otherwise. I thought possibly it might be out of date, as otherwise there would be no reason for a "minilight" class.

That quote i got in my previous post was taken directly from the VMCC page on streetstock, but i did notice that page apparently hasnt been updated since approx 2006 or something :Oops:

ifv you wanna do streetstock get a kr150, or rg150, they are bloody fast {they have double the horse power of your gn250}...and are only about $2500...alot cheaper than ss250

[huff3r]

ifv you wanna do streetstock get a kr150, or rg150, they are bloody fast {they have double the horse power of your gn250}...and are only about $2500...alot cheaper than ss250

Umm, $2500 is a lot more than the 250s ive been looking at, and i've heard that the frame on the 150s is quite small? I'm 6'3" so that doesnt really appeal. Also like the idea of four-stroke reliability (plus i have the skills to rebuild a 4-stroke).

The other concern is i intend to ride it on the road initially, and i dont know if a peaky 2-stroke would be suitable for a 30km daily motorway commute. It'd be a case of dailying it untill i get some decent practice on a sportsbike and get something bigger, then dedicate it to the track.

[woodyracer]

Umm, $2500 is a lot more than the 250s ive been looking at, and i've heard that the frame on the 150s is quite small? I'm 6'3" so that doesnt really appeal. Also like the idea of four-stroke reliability (plus i have the skills to rebuild a 4-stroke).

The other concern is i intend to ride it on the road initially, and i dont know if a peaky 2-stroke would be suitable for a 30km daily motorway commute. It'd be a case of dailying it untill i get some decent practice on a sportsbike and get something bigger, then dedicate it to the track.

ok first of one a ss250 that under $2500 is most likely goin to be unrealible. ss150s are actualy quite big for there engine size, my dad is 6" and he fits on it fine. ss150's are very relible {watercooled ones anyway} they are alot more reliable than an old 250 sportzbike. If you have the skil to rebuild a 4t you deffiinitly have the skills to work on a 2t....

Trying to race and road ride a bike isnt always as good as it seems.....

[huff3r]

ok first of one a ss250 that under $2500 is most likely goin to be unrealible. ss150s are actualy quite big for there engine size, my dad is 6" and he fits on it fine. ss150's are very relible {watercooled ones anyway} they are alot more reliable than an old 250 sportzbike. If you have the skil to rebuild a 4t you deffiinitly have the skills to work on a 2t....

Trying to race and road ride a bike isnt always as good as it seems.....

Ok, cheers for that. I don't intend to road and race at once, just figure i need sportsbike practice before i get a big one, and want a racer so may as well get a small sportsbike i can use as a racer when im done :D.

Also, the bikes i have been looking at for cheap are ones that have issues, but mostly easy ones. Enough to scare off the misinformed and make the bike ridiculously cheap though, so i still firmly believe that i could get a running, reliable ss250 for about $2 - $2.5k.

However, it seems maybe that isnt the way to go, so i might have to give it some more thought. Lots of very cheap kr150s around at the moment...

[ajturbo]

So is the VMCC website current, regarding the bit where it says a 250 four-stroke can run in standard trim in SS150, or can have a few mods and run in minilites.. which is run with SS anyway? I'm just trying to figure out some options to get out racing myself :D

edit:
To make it clear.. would i be able to run a completely standard GSXR250 or similar in with the 150SS without having to worry about the minilite rules, and just following standars SS rules? Because minilites seem a little more complicated and outta my depth for a beginner..
this is from the Vic club President

""this class ( 250cc, 4 stroke twins) will be up for discussion at the next committee meeting""

Note: at this point, we do not run this class... but it IS a MNZ sanctioned class....

[huff3r]

this is from the Vic club President

""this class ( 250cc, 4 stroke twins) will be up for discussion at the next committee meeting""

Note: at this point, we do not run this class... but it IS a MNZ sanctioned class....

Sorry, i wasnt refering to the twins... they are even more expensive again! But rather pointing out that the VMCC website indicates that 250cc 4 strokes are allowed in the SS150 class, but perhaps that bit of the site needs to be updated? As i've been told they no longer run the 250s in with the 150s as they arent really that comparable?

[ajturbo]

Sorry, i wasnt refering to the twins... they are even more expensive again! But rather pointing out that the VMCC website indicates that 250cc 4 strokes are allowed in the SS150 class, but perhaps that bit of the site needs to be updated? As i've been told they no longer run the 250s in with the 150s as they arent really that comparable?
we do run the the 4 stroke 4's in with the 150's they are a bit faster, but a good rider on a 150 will easily keep up, as i suck at racing, i cannot.... but get some who knows what they are doing... or some young smart kid from CHCH.. and they will get beaten.... unless of cause billy is on one (250)he kicks but... even for an old granddad!!!

[woodyracer]

we do run the the 4 stroke 4's in with the 150's they are a bit faster, but a good rider on a 150 will easily keep up, as i suck at racing, i cannot.... but get some who knows what they are doing... or some young smart kid from CHCH.. and they will get beaten.... unless of cause billy is on one (250)he kicks but... even for an old granddad!!!

the problem coems when both riders are similar and then the 4 cyl 4t wins....then people complain. Perosnaly i think they should have there own class. 250 twins are differnt, id say a 150 2t and 250 4t are similar power, i was offered to ride a hyosung one, but even with sponsorship my 150 was alot cheaper.....thats why the 150's are sooo good, fast & cheap.

The aprillia rs125's seem to be popping up alot lately in ss150.....could be a good replacement when they come to a realistic price.

[huff3r]

we do run the the 4 stroke 4's in with the 150's they are a bit faster, but a good rider on a 150 will easily keep up, as i suck at racing, i cannot.... but get some who knows what they are doing... or some young smart kid from CHCH.. and they will get beaten.... unless of cause billy is on one (250)he kicks but... even for an old granddad!!!

Cool, thanks for a nice clear answer. Still leaves me searching between a kr150 or gsxr/cbr250... but it'll come down to cost in the end i think :lol:

[woodyracer]

Cool, thanks for a nice clear answer. Still leaves me searching between a kr150 or gsxr/cbr250... but it'll come down to cost in the end i think :lol:

go for the kr150, save your money for after a few seasons of ss150 then when your more expirienced and can handle racing a big bike compeditivly you'll have that money saved! the financial advise is free of charge by the way :niceone:

[Billy]

my point??

i have no point...

:beer::beer::beer:

Of course!!What the fuck was I thinking???Now everything makes sense and its great grandad (although some would argue Im not that great at it) LOL

[xr-rider]

Umm, $2500 is a lot more than the 250s ive been looking at, and i've heard that the frame on the 150s is quite small? I'm 6'3" so that doesnt really appeal. Also like the idea of four-stroke reliability (plus i have the skills to rebuild a 4-stroke).

The other concern is i intend to ride it on the road initially, and i dont know if a peaky 2-stroke would be suitable for a 30km daily motorway commute. It'd be a case of dailying it untill i get some decent practice on a sportsbike and get something bigger, then dedicate it to the track.

most road legal rgs are about $2000. they are not to small either. they are pretty reliable if they have been looked after. easy top work on. they are easily ridden on the road and don't need high revs