Call to WAR

[caseye]

It'll be bye bye Johnny boy and the Nats once we've shown them what they're up against next time.

[oldrider]

It'll be bye bye Johnny boy and the Nats once we've shown them what they're up against next time.

Don't disagree at all but who you gonna replace them with, out of the motley bunch on offer? :confused:

And following the election it will be a fruit salad of a mix as well, bit of a lucky dip government that you didn't want and probably didn't vote for :buggerd:

We will probably be attending demonstrations and protests for the rest of our lives! :mad:

[caseye]

LOL Ouch! a low blow indeed, butt of course it's 100% right.
Pity is that this lot simply think (here we go again) that they know Best for the rest of us.
If we could educate them and get them to do our bidding, ie: referendum that bloody well binds we'd be much happier as a nation.
That damn flag would go, welfare would dry up, kids could be properly disciplined and a/holes would have to work for a living.
Oh shit, sorry dreaming again.

[wingrider]

Don't disagree at all but who you gonna replace them with, out of the motley bunch on offer? :confused:

And following the election it will be a fruit salad of a mix as well, bit of a lucky dip government that you didn't want and probably didn't vote for :buggerd:

We will probably be attending demonstrations and protests for the rest of our lives! :mad:

Yep, agree its a hard one, perhaps.

But to my memory there has been only one party that for the last 40+ years seems hell bent on privatizing SOE's, selling all state assets to the highest bidder for the profit of a few. And only one party has ever come close to bankrupting this country.

Of late there have been referendums that have been futile because who ever was in power, they didnt give a stuff about the outcome, just carried on regardless.

Acc changes this time round appears to have finally opened peoples minds to the point where we are sick of being a vocal majority that is heard by the deaf.

Lies and bullshit continue to be an accepted part of politics regardless of who's in power.

This time it didn't work.

All political parties need to hear it long loud and clear. When you play around with a social entity that causes such massive disruption and affects the everyday life of every living person and for generations yet to come, then the people are not going to shuffle silently into the corner and mumble to themselves.

The deaf are going to hear us, the blind are going to see us and the mute are going to be the loudest when we say enough!

There will always be changes that we dont agree with, But if the people are asked to give an opinion, then our democrocy demands that our voice be heard.

No one wants a nanny state, but shit we dont want a dictatorship that is run by the BRT either.

We elect people to govern in the best interests of and for all, not to continually give benefit to a chosen few.

They want us to be accountable for our actions, then they can bloody well be accountable for their own.

Bullshit is no longer an acceptable defense regardless of who is in power.

[Katman]

New Zealanders don't vote for what they want,

Oh yes they do.

The government just doesn't take any notice.

[jafar]

Don't disagree at all but who you gonna replace them with, out of the motley bunch on offer? :mad:

We replace them with our own people, if the Maori's can put aside their tribal differences & create the Maori party for the good of their people & culture then what is stopping us from doing the same thing ? The Maori party has done a lot for the people that they represent & could be used as a model for us to get what we want.

Behold the BIKOI PARTY for the good of all New Zealanders !:2thumbsup
Imagine telling nicky that he is full of it from INSIDE the government itself !

[_Shrek_]

Behold the BIKOI PARTY for the good of all New Zealanders !
Imagine telling nicky that he is full of it from INSIDE the government itself !

tiz i nice idea jafar, will watch with interest,
but aside that, (this is not directed at any one) whats the point in party bashing all labour will do is use it for their own ends & they started this in the 1st place who else is there to vote for, they're liars & fraudsters etc... best we stick together on this & refuse to pay & hit Wellington together & not to worry weather we piss any one off as this is a protest. no one else thats protested in the past as bothered to see if it up set any one or put them out so

cya in Welly

[maxf]

Cheers. Yours is not too shabby either...


I have had one reply (predictably, from Chris Tremain, spouting the partyline BULLSHIT)

I offered him a tailor-made serve...

Sorry to be late replying to this, but the National Party Line just shows what a bunch of asshole, limp little bottom-feeder shmucks they all are... Thanks to Mr Tremain, I'd like to propose one small action, since I now won't vote for any existing party (can't trust them, and/or they end up with extreme "pet" policies)

- we setup a website
- we allow online membership for $1 donation
- that membership makes you part of the Motorcylists against Politicians Party
- we make them feel pain in their pockets as all the senior party list MPs get squashed out due to us taking their seats and the first- & second-termers don't get a free ride onto a Parliamentary pension
- if anyone gets snarky, we adopt a manifesto of no manifesto - issues are debated online/whatever as they come, when they come. If it slows things down, then that can't be any worse that voting everything under Urgency (both sides do it, weasels) to a pre-decided outcome anyway!!

Sorry, this stonewalling behind all the lies has really got me going... wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so blatant, and ACCEPTED at so many levels (media especially - all they cover is how popular JK is, no investigation at all, are they all being ghostwritten from Oz now?)

PS - will be in for more protests, done all 3 Chch events, may well try for Wgtn in Feb if it comes together!

[drummer]

The upshot is this rating on the preferred Prime Minister stakes has dropped to under 50 per cent for the first time this year.

He has also suffered a 9.4 per cent loss on the approval ratings for how he is performing his role.[/I]This is exactly why I am leaving this debate here... you left leaning people think that this Nat government is to blame entirely... your solution... get rid of the Nats... that mr stoney is not only unrealistic but also shos me that you don't kno ho politics orks in NZ...

I agree with another poster ho said this should be about unity... but you and your left wing friends have made it into a debate against the Nats as a whole... I and many others kno all too ell that the Labour govt shafted NZ under Clarke and if you really believe for one moment that business people and the Joe on the streets ho suffered under Clarke, would ever elect another idiot like her, then you have another think coming... This MUST be about changing policy.. but you and a fe others have hyjacked this subject.. more is the pity hen because of your political views and the way you have gone about destroying any other rational thoughts.... ACC will change... hy? Because bikers are not united... and never will be unless they forget their personal hatred of National (or Labour for that point...).. hate the policy... change the policy... but don't start a ar you will NEVER win.

Peter

[StoneY]

This is exactly why I am leaving this debate here... you left leaning people think that this Nat government is to blame entirely... your solution... get rid of the Nats... that mr stoney is not only unrealistic but also shos me that you don't kno ho politics orks in NZ...



shos kno ho

FFS you expect me to take that illiterate dribble seriously?
WHEN you learn to actually write, type, and proofread, I may bother actually reading your crap

I spent 6 years in governemnet service in high level IT roles, and as a union negotiator.
I have been involved in policy, contract negotiations, tender processes...name it, been there done that

I garantee I know more about how the NZ govt machine rolls than your ever going too

Why do you think the speaker of the house takes my request to enter the grounds seriously? 9,500 people singing happy birthday StoneY comes to mind right about now

Go away drummer, your not worth the oil im losing off my finger tips typing this reply
Walk the walk, or stop dribbling on my shoes

[MSTRS]

shos kno ho

FFS you expect me to take that illiterate dribble seriously?
WHEN you learn to actually write, type, and proof-read, I may bother actually reading your crap.

I spent 6 years in government service in high level IT roles, and as a union negotiator.
I have been involved in policy, contract negotiations, tender processes...name it, been there, done that.

I guarantee I know more about how the NZ govt machine rolls than you're ever going to know.

Why do you think the speaker of the house takes my request to enter the grounds seriously? 9,500 people singing Happy Birthday StoneY comes to mind right about now.

Go away drummer, you're not worth the oil I'm losing off my finger tips typing this reply.
Walk the walk, or stop dribbling on my shoes

The guy's keyboard has a sticky 'w'.
I've proof-read your post and made the corrections (glasshouses, eh?)
:innocent:

[GOONR]

This is exactly why I am leaving this debate here... you left leaning people think that this Nat government is to blame entirely... your solution... get rid of the Nats... that mr stoney is not only unrealistic but also shos me that you don't kno ho politics orks in NZ...

I agree with another poster ho said this should be about unity... but you and your left wing friends have made it into a debate against the Nats as a whole... I and many others kno all too ell that the Labour govt shafted NZ under Clarke and if you really believe for one moment that business people and the Joe on the streets ho suffered under Clarke, would ever elect another idiot like her, then you have another think coming... This MUST be about changing policy.. but you and a fe others have hyjacked this subject.. more is the pity hen because of your political views and the way you have gone about destroying any other rational thoughts.... ACC will change... hy? Because bikers are not united... and never will be unless they forget their personal hatred of National (or Labour for that point...).. hate the policy... change the policy... but don't start a ar you will NEVER win.

Peter

The only thing that I got from this is that you need (a) a new keyboard or (b) new fingers!

[DEVVIL]

The guy's keyboard has a sticky 'w'.
I've proof-read your post and made the corrections (glasshouses, eh?)
:innocent:

This is better than TV lol:girlfight:

[drummer]

The only thing that I got from this is that you need (a) a new keyboard or (b) new fingers!
a new kb and give stones the finger LOL

[drummer]

[B] I spent 6 years in governemnet service as a union negotiator.Thought so... explains it all...

[caseye]

Peter? why bother coming into a thread just to pour cold water on ideas.Stoney did a hell of a job of work in getting us to parliament and making sure we were heard.
But for his large part in the huge effort that was BikeOi ACC Levie hikes would have been significantly higher.
You are fast becoming a spoiler rather than someone who has any positive contribution to make.
Argue by all means, but argue the point, not The man.

[OV Lander]

StoneY - can you give us a little bit of an update on your February plans so that we can re-unite the group and get behind the common cause.

I think we all need to get back to the core issue and direct our energies into supporting your efforts with a much more positive focus.

[Pixie]

Labour supports future funding for ACC.They supported it when they were in power.They support it now,but are very quiet about it.They are not our friends.
We should use them in our fight and then toss them aside.

[StoneY]

Hehe

Typo's aside you all still got the drift

Anyway Feburary, the date all the Unions willing to attend agree on is Feb 16 a Tuesday

Wont be any news more than that till we meet them in January and I will start pushing out more info then

Dont forget, Feb will be a biker LEAD issue, as in we had the idea, we called the others to come along, but it is about everyone, so WE will not be the focus, merely the core organiser

Hoping for massive numbers but only time will tell
Focus the unions wish to push on is on stopping privatization and ensuring we dont lose any entitlements rather than just raises in the levies (although thats still in the spotlight as well)

[Ixion]

Labour supports future funding for ACC.They supported it when they were in power.They support it now,but are very quiet about it.They are not our friends.
We should use them in our fight and then toss them aside.

It is correct that both National and Labour support full funding.

So long as full funding remains a requirment, we will continue to face large levy rises on motorcycles. There is no way that the motorcycle fund can be fully funded , even by the revised 2019 date, without $1000+ levy rates.

Only the Green party have come out in opposition to full funding.

It is in the nature of politics that the Labour party see motorcyclists at present as a convenient stick to beat the National government with. Once we are no longer useful to them they will quickly distance themselves from us.

We must adopt the same philosophy.

[NighthawkNZ]

Doesn't matter who you vote for a politican gets in and all governments are just puppets to a higher order anyway... NZ is no different... and you are a fool you think any government truly cares about the populus in any form and as I said they government are only puppets... you want change find the puppeteers.

They are only in the game for the own outcome, nothing more.

[Tone165]

I read pages 1 thru 5, then 15 to last..

Lots of arguement, lots of talk...

Looks a bit like too many ppl with different opinions...

Did not read much in the way of strategy, but at some point someone somwhere will call for action...for example..the Bikoi 2 in Feb.

At that time you better make up your mind are you in or out.

"WAR" is not a part time hobby, where you will do some shooting but wont drop bombs.....(figuratively speaking)

lots have said "I'm in...till the end!" but then later said "er well yes but......"

Nobody will ever be happy with all the details, but it's up to all of us to back ANY action that supports the main principal of our "SIDE" which is simply...no change to ACC.

My personal beleif and suggestion...hit em in the pocket..make a fabric cap, with "Who's Next" or a slogan on it, and put it over the numberplate of your unregistered cars trucks and bikes.

It would be great to hear from lawyers who could tell us what we can get away with and what we cannot.

[drummer]

I'm just goiing to ride my bike... yep I will protest against the ACC amendment bill.. but war is for the weak... real battles are won in our individual actions... not some kind of disruptive war... I'm our.. along with the huge majority of riders.... did a little survey in town... spoke to ten riders... only one knew of this forum and none hated the government as a whole... did surprise me... but 3 of them did know about the ACC protests... none were interested in "making war"

Get the point my little warmongers! You are losing support... and dividing the community... something that we haven't done up to now.. and something that will NOT work.

P

[NONONO]

My opinion (for what it's worth) is we must attack the target that's in front of us, and that's the Nats.
We can easily divide along party lines, especialy as the phoney war is over and the real battle begins.
Or we could go down the anarchist route of 'all government is bad" and dissolve into apathy.
Both of the above options provide a win for Key and his minions and masters.
But, if we keep the focus on the Nats, Smith in particular, try and widen any gap between him and Judge, then we keep the message strong and unified.
This allows us the chance to stop the Nats (a party ideologically commited to service privatisation in order to generate profit for a few) privatising ACC, but also sends a message to the next party in government that it would be folly to try it again.
Don't understand why we would be wanting to alienate Labour here, only to get in bed with the greens. Some nice semi agrarian notions but no real chance of obtaining the whip hand.
The Nats are the party in power, it's the Nats we have to beat.
Sorry Drummer, in my opinion THAT"S realpolitik, not your 5th column notions.
Beat the Nats at this and we send a message to all parties, "Hands Off ACC, don't even go there".

[caseye]

My opinion (for what it's worth) is we must attack the target that's in front of us, and that's the Nats.
We can easily divide along party lines, especialy as the phoney war is over and the real battle begins.
Or we could go down the anarchist route of 'all government is bad" and dissolve into apathy.
Both of the above options provide a win for Key and his minions and masters.
But, if we keep the focus on the Nats, Smith in particular, try and widen any gap between him and Judge, then we keep the message strong and unified.
This allows us the chance to stop the Nats (a party ideologically commited to service privatisation in order to generate profit for a few) privatising ACC, but also sends a message to the next party in government that it would be folly to try it again.
Don't understand why we would be wanting to alienate Labour here, only to get in bed with the greens. Some nice semi agrarian notions but no real chance of obtaining the whip hand.
The Nats are the party in power, it's the Nats we have to beat.
Sorry Drummer, in my opinion THAT"S realpolitik, not your 5th column notions.
Beat the Nats at this and we send a message to all parties, "Hands Off ACC, don't even go there".

Well said mate. Drummer as I've said inother threads you have shown up in lately.
If you have nothing positive to say then at least do us all a favour and "Dont say anydamn thing"
I see motorcyclists every day who obviously dont know of KB and or the ACC levies or the disasterious conswquences should the Govt be allowed to continue on their partial privitisation of ACC.
Support of the Motorcyclists and for changing the present Govts stance on ACC is continuing to grow,not diminish.

Tone165, you are right about there being plenty who say one thing and then blatantly do another, we have to allow that this is going to happen and carry on.As for opinions and ideas, well this is an open forum, we are all able to place our opinions and thoughts here.
If they are any good they will be noted and acted upon, I can assure you of that.
For instance your own opinion re Lawyers and cloth hats, questioning what can and can't be gotten away with. It has already been acted on,opinions of legal beagles has been sought.Butt it's Christmas and it seems they're the first one s to go on Holiday and the last to come back.
Hurrumph.

[NONONO]

Exactly ....
You read the last post on AAG re WMCC yet? give us a reply.

[StoneY]

Alright, for those keen to come along me and the Unions have pencilled in a big protest for Feb 16
Meeting several cheeses from these union groups in a few days.
Gonna need some grund zero assistance, sponsors, all the trappings of the last time.....

Dunno if I have the energy or willpower I had in November....too much has changed in my life since then
Seeking people with the get-up-and-get-it-done attitude to help out

This is not a BRONZ thing, no longer just a Biker thing either but they all want the bikers there, a good few hundred bikes minimum in Molesworth st and a huge foot march from the non-biker world

This is the last chance we get to show them numbers without the need to riot or burn the city down
But seriously....I took on way too much last time, and I need some more help on this one....or it will just fade out and disapear like so many other issues do

PM me if you're seriously keen to do some work on this

[StoneY]

I'm just goiing to ride my bike... yep I will protest against the ACC amendment bill.. but war is for the weak... real battles are won in our individual actions... not some kind of disruptive war... I'm our.. along with the huge majority of riders.... did a little survey in town... spoke to ten riders... only one knew of this forum and none hated the government as a whole... did surprise me... but 3 of them did know about the ACC protests... none were interested in "making war"

Get the point my little warmongers! You are losing support... and dividing the community... something that we haven't done up to now.. and something that will NOT work.

P


Ive spoken to HUNDREDS of Bikers and while about 1/3rd knew of KB or used it, ALL of them knew we had been to Parliament, and all of them were marginally appeased by the reduced levy hike
I have also spoken to may other organisations who said "StoneY, you and ya leather clad pal's were awesome, can you lead the charge for us too?"

Take ya head out of the hole in the sand your hiding in Drummer
The whole Nation saw us, they all heard us, 90% of them agree with us

So you asked 10 random bikers...wow what an effort you have made, we all must bow to your wisdom, research and loyalty to Bill n Ben! It so obvious....why cant any of us see it?

[avgas]

And if you think JK is still gonna be round in 3 years, thats your privellege, I for one disagree
Who will replace him? I am still yet to see a politician I don't want to push off a cliff.
SSDD with the NZ Government
Atleast if Key gets back in I won't have to remember the new morons name.

[avgas]

The whole Nation saw us, they all heard us, 90% of them agree with us
So true - its a shame that doesn't count for anything here anymore.
And we are too gutless here for revolutions.

[StoneY]

So true - its a shame that doesn't count for anything here anymore.
And we are too gutless here for revolutions.

You know...for once I agree with you
I keep saying lets protest, and some say 'not enough' others say' lets burn things' and you know, it became apparent at the Bike rally on NY at Ocean Beach, too many people think they can get bikers to actually DO shit...ldreamers.
This whole counrty is so apathetic, your meant to believe in people and 'trust' they will do right by ya

Well I have ONE more protest in me, then its time to see who REALLY has balls and whos just fucking loud and obnoxious

[bogan]

well I cant seem to PM at the moment, so Ill volunteer to do flyers/graphics etc if needed.

Mid feb seem like a pretty good time, great if people from all groups join in as well.

[Brian d marge]

Put pressure on BRONZ and Ulysses

I mean Really put the pressure , times dates . etc

And if you here one person say ,,,its ok , mustn't grumble

Let them have both barrels

Stephen

[NONONO]

You know...for once I agree with you
I keep saying lets protest, and some say 'not enough' others say' lets burn things' and you know, it became apparent at the Bike rally on NY at Ocean Beach, too many people think they can get bikers to actually DO shit...ldreamers.
This whole counrty is so apathetic, your meant to believe in people and 'trust' they will do right by ya

Well I have ONE more protest in me, then its time to see who REALLY has balls and whos just fucking loud and obnoxious

StoneY
Don't you give it away yet ...
Things IS happening, it's just Xmas, and kids and holidays and,..well, life gets in the way mate.
Am booking hols for the 16th and know others will be there too.
My belief is that it only LOOKS quiet at the moment, lots happening below the surface. Once the festering season is well and truely over (next week), things will shape up.
Know you will have a contingent from Auckland on the 16th.
We ain't done yet, in fact we ain't even started. So pace yourself a bit more, don't burn out and be nice to old ladies (some of em are hot).

[NONONO]

You know...for once I agree with you
I keep saying lets protest, and some say 'not enough' others say' lets burn things' and you know, it became apparent at the Bike rally on NY at Ocean Beach, too many people think they can get bikers to actually DO shit...ldreamers.
This whole counrty is so apathetic, your meant to believe in people and 'trust' they will do right by ya

Well I have ONE more protest in me, then its time to see who REALLY has balls and whos just fucking loud and obnoxious

As above, Fck double post.

[Owl]

Mid feb seem like a pretty good time, great if people from all groups join in as well.

Well it looks like you can add hoteliers & ski field operators to the list as they're next. Their levies up 70% & 80% respectively.:(

[Pedrostt500]

Well it looks like you can add hoteliers & ski field operators to the list as they're next. Their levies up 70% & 80% respectively.:(

Yep so how much are they going to hit the Trades with along with Farming?, my geuss is alot more than 80%.
Are ACC trying to make enemies out of everyone?.

[gwigs]

Just watched tonights news,the ACC have just kicked the tourism industry in the teeth with up to 80 per cent increase.Also employers in other industries facing big increases
Went all Muslim and biffed my shoe at the TV as I happened to have it in my hand at the time (cramp in foot),Acc boss Keith something sour faced git lying again...muttered something about him being a lying cnut and threw shoe..
We bikers know what the pricks are up to ,fatten up ACC up so they can sell it ,well fuck them ITS WAR,lets get it on .
I,m up for every protest,action ,civil disobedience and what ever it takes...Bring it on..:bash:

[bogan]

First they came for the bikers, and they spoke out
they also came for the victimized minorities, and they spoke out
they also came for the wage earners, and they were deceived
and now they come for the tourism industry, where will it stop?
We are all still here, let us speak out, let us speak together, and let us speak LOUD!

[NONONO]

Sorry mate but the Rape Crisis people were first, we missed it all till levie hikes.

[StoneY]

Well it looks like you can add hoteliers & ski field operators to the list as they're next. Their levies up 70% & 80% respectively.:(

Food and Service Workers Union onside already...trust me they know thier levy went up

Fact is the unions are on fire over this, all I wanna see is a few hundred bikers ride ahead, park up at Parliament in front of the house on Molesworth, and basically say 'were back, look who else came along' and have 20,000 foot marchers appear round the corner.....
That will be awesome.

Then, I can retire to my hermitage knowing my work is done

:niceone:

[DEVVIL]

Food and Service Workers Union onside already...trust me they know thier levy went up

Fact is the unions are on fire over this, all I wanna see is a few hundred bikers ride ahead, park up at Parliament in front of the house on Molesworth, and basically say 'were back, look who else came along' and have 20,000 foot marchers appear round the corner.....
That will be awesome.

Then, I can retire to my hermitage knowing my work is done

:niceone:

Mate we will all come and make some noise!!! smoke!!!
This is the last chance for National
We will not let this one go.......
What will Nick say at this one?

[Owl]

What will Nick say at this one?

That's obvious.........................More lies!:innocent:

[DEVVIL]

That's obvious.........................More lies!:innocent:

As long as he puts our levy back he can lie......and......lie.........and......
we need numbers at this one or just bend over

[Pedrostt500]

Well some how I dont think the Government or ACC are going to bend, much or any if at all, they have their agendas set in stone, we know their agendas have fuck all for the good of the Public, and more for making the rich multi national corporations richer.
We are Damned if we protest and we are Damned if we don't, but what we have to be careful of is how we fight this battle, Public Perception is every thing, so if we destroy our cridibility with Joe and Jane Public, then we are Fucked, at the Moement ACC and the Government are doing a good job of digging them selves a hole, and maybe quiet a deliberate one, Ie "ACC is to exspensive and Unpopular lets get rid of it".
keep in mind the biggest exspence for the Government is the NON EARNERS account, that is the tab that we as Tax Payers directly pick up, this is the main one that the Government want to be free of, so they are trying to fund it by raising the Levies of the other groups.

[chanceyy]

Will start the organisation again next week for our area ..

will have to organise a meeting of the palmerston north & Levin crew to get planning underway :yes:

[blossomsowner]

when something is organised for the capital...........i'll be there again..........and hopefully with some friends as well this time, other people might be starting to wake up a bit tp waht acc is doing. They are now realising that it is not just t he bikers who are getting shafted .

[Toaster]

Agreed. I am in Wellington (clearly summer forgot this place... so windy)... am really keen to be involved in any action here. Just sucks this whole levies thing.... so hard to afford anything with ACC and general price hikes hitting us so hard! So much for low inflation.

[caseye]

"WHO'S NEXT" was our cry , we knew then it wasn't just US and we told the general piublic this, they, as always put theiur head in the sand. Now it's coming home to roost.
STONEY my lad, we'll be there wilth bells on mate and those foot soldiers you spoke of, well I reckon there will be a darn sight more than 20,000 of em, once they all get their increases in the mail.
Oh, by the way mate , Great timing, me and half the BFTP will be half way there already!

[avgas]

Well I have ONE more protest in me, then its time to see who REALLY has balls and whos just fucking loud and obnoxious

hehe and if that doesn't work will you let me burn things ;)
I noticed that LTSA is chasing me about my bike rego........I wonder how many others have put the bike on hold.
Must be starting to hurt a bit - should be interesting. Am tempted to put the car on hold too

[Owl]

I noticed that LTSA is chasing me about my bike rego........I wonder how many others have put the bike on hold.
Must be starting to hurt a bit - should be interesting. Am tempted to put the car on hold too

The new levies won't kick in until June/July, so isn't that a little premature? Got to be more of an impact if the rego hold takes place after the fact!