So - Is not paying ANY ACC the answer?

[DougieNZ]

OK - So we have seen the final figures announced...

So now we have many on here saying:

"I'm putting my registration on hold - and still ride"
"I'm not going to pay"

I have no doubt that the next move will be to put the no rego fine up to $500.

During the campaign we talked about the "freeloaders" quads, mountain bikers, sports people, etc etc.

For those advocating the above - is joining their ranks going to help the situation? Will they still want to claim ACC when they come off? Should they be entitled to ACC if they knowingly avoid payment? Will insurance companies pay out? Should they - using my premiums if I do pay my rego?

Intersting questions I reckon.

[Coldrider]

Freeload for an extra $175 all you like, I don't want to read posts about it if/when you get busted.
The fine is $1,000, it's the 'instant fine' that is $200.

[What?]

OK - So we have seen the final figures announced...

So now we have many on here saying:

"I'm putting my registration on hold - and still ride"
"I'm not going to pay"

I have no doubt that the next move will be to put the no rego fine up to $500.

During the campaign we talked about the "freeloaders" quads, mountain bikers, sports people, etc etc.

For those advocating the above - is joining their ranks going to help the situation? Will they still want to claim ACC when they come off? Should they be entitled to ACC if they knowingly avoid payment? Will insurance companies pay out? Should they - using my premiums if I do pay my rego?

Intersting questions I reckon.

Well, for starters, the "freeloaders" are paying for sporting injury cover. It comes from the Earner Premium attached to PAYE. Only the unemployed dodge that. Employers pay another levy again to cover you for work accidents.
As for me being a freeloader if I ride unregistered, maybe you have a point IF I owned one bike and no other vehicles. But I own two (road) bikes and two cars. And I still pay several hundred dollars a year in ACC levies on the fuel I use.
The only real freeloaders are the life-long unemployed who never use anything powered by an internal combustion engine (this includes buses, taxis and planes - think about it)

[Nasty]

OK - So we have seen the final figures announced...

So now we have many on here saying:

"I'm putting my registration on hold - and still ride"
"I'm not going to pay"

I have no doubt that the next move will be to put the no rego fine up to $500.

During the campaign we talked about the "freeloaders" quads, mountain bikers, sports people, etc etc.

For those advocating the above - is joining their ranks going to help the situation? Will they still want to claim ACC when they come off? Should they be entitled to ACC if they knowingly avoid payment? Will insurance companies pay out? Should they - using my premiums if I do pay my rego?

Intersting questions I reckon.

Rego is not the only form of collection ... and those who you mentioned don't take money from the motoring fund ... its from the general funds. Which we also pay shitloads into to. So the only person who it affects is you by not paying .. as others say don't moan if you get pinged .. but if you choose to not reg ... remember you still need to warrent.

[Maha]

OK - So we have seen the final figures announced...

So now we have many on here saying:

"I'm putting my registration on hold - and still ride"
"I'm not going to pay"

I have no doubt that the next move will be to put the no rego fine up to $500.

During the campaign we talked about the "freeloaders" quads, mountain bikers, sports people, etc etc.

For those advocating the above - is joining their ranks going to help the situation? Will they still want to claim ACC when they come off? Should they be entitled to ACC if they knowingly avoid payment? Will insurance companies pay out? Should they - using my premiums if I do pay my rego?

Intersting questions I reckon.


What is the fine for no Rego?

Those that are saying they will put thier rego on hold are counting on getting pinged once, whos to say they wont get pinged 3-4 times during a year?

I can see rego/warrent check points on the increase.

[twotyred]

I think the best idea is not "on hold" and ride, but pay in VERY short time frames...2 weeks, a month.
Sure it will cost YOU a little more(if you look at it in annual terms) but it means you are not giving your hard earned cash to the Gubmint for a years rego,for them to invest,spend or add tp the ACC surplus.
If all motorcyclists dropped the "pre-pay for a year" regime, that the state wants you to think should be the norm... what would be the outcome I wonder?

[Mcycle]

Putting rego on hold is one answer..... continuing to protest is the other. I like the idea of another Major ride in protest (say) in March just before the fees actually go up.


It is worth it......? Ask yourselves how many times has a cop stopped you to in the last 2 years. The answer will give you an idea.

As to the cops having to put the fines up - that would be a great indication that our protest is being noticed!

Lastly it is relatively easy to doctor rego's so while riding on 'Hold' it still looks valid..... it takes just one number (font is Times New Roman - 60 point) to turn 2010 to 2011!! But this is naughty so not advocated here!! Nudge Nudge......

[AllanB]

As for me being a freeloader if I ride unregistered, maybe you have a point IF I owned one bike and no other vehicles. But I own two (road) bikes and two cars.


It's been this way for ever - funny how it is a issue now. It is not a Motorcycle only issue as it affects all multi vehicle owners - hell even my trailer rego has a very small ACC content in it - probably due to some motorcyclist cutting a corner and hitting a parked trailer :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

The only way that not paying the additional rego would work is if 90% of motorcyclists did not pay, and then did not pay the associated fines. That would get their attention. A handful of bikers getting fines for unregistered bikes will only add to the Government coffers.

If you want to address the multi-user issue start writing to your MP and Nick Smith and ACC. A letter to Parliament costs nothing to post.

[Mom]

Putting rego on hold is one answer..... continuing to protest is the other. I like the idea of another Major ride in protest (say) in March just before the fees actually go up.


It is worth it......? Ask yourselves how many times has a cop stopped you to in the last 2 years. The answer will give you an idea.

As to the cops having to put the fines up - that would be a great indication that our protest is being noticed!

Lastly it is relatively easy to doctor rego's so while riding on 'Hold' it still looks valid..... it takes just one number (font is Times New Roman - 60 point) to turn 2010 to 2011!! But this is naughty so not advocated here!! Nudge Nudge......


And if you get pulled over for any reason the first thing they will do is run you plate. So you will also get done for fraudulently altering a rego sticker. Wonder what the penalty for that is?

All I can see happening is plod focussing more on checking bikes for rego/WOF etc much more often, and the fines being increased.

[AllanB]

Lastly it is relatively easy to doctor rego's so while riding on 'Hold' it still looks valid..... it takes just one number (font is Times New Roman - 60 point) to turn 2010 to 2011!! But this is naughty so not advocated here!! Nudge Nudge......


Problem here is if you get stopped for any reason and they run it through the computer it will show up as being unregistered. Then you need to be doing some fancy talking or dropping to your knees and forming a pretty 'O' with your mouth ......... :no:

[Headbanger]

And if you get pulled over for any reason the first thing they will do is run you plate.

Only if you stop.

[Headbanger]

Like any form of action it would require large numbers to participate, Waste of time if only a few bother unless they are doing it as a "Fuck you" personal protest.

However, If thousands of motorcycles suddenly dropped off the system then their revenue would plummet and they would get the message that we aren't allowing them to do that shit.

[Spearfish]

If there are less bikes registered then there are less bikes on the road according to ACC at any one time. .

[Mom]

Like any form of action it would require large numbers to participate, Waste of if only a few bother unless they are doing it as a "Fuck you" personal protest.

However, If thousands of motorcycles suddenly dropped off the system then their revenue would plummet and they would get the message that we aren't allowing them to do that shit.

I never said I did not support it ;)

[Pixie]

I think we should take the French option.
But I'm pissing in the wind with spineless kiwis

[What?]

If you want to address the multi-user issue start writing to your MP and Nick Smith and ACC. A letter to Parliament costs nothing to post.
I've been doing just that, regularly, for over twenty years...


All I can see happening is plod focussing more on checking bikes for rego/WOF etc much more often, and the fines being increased.
A walk around any BOP shopping mall carpark would indicate that the cops don't see rego currency as a priority. I'm guessing it is pretty much the same story elsewhere. Of course, if you get pulled for something else and play the arsehole, then you very likely will get done.

[Mom]

I've been doing just that, regularly, for over twenty years...


A walk around any BOP shopping mall carpark would indicate that the cops don't see rego currency as a priority. I'm guessing it is pretty much the same story elsewhere. Of course, if you get pulled for something else and play the arsehole, then you very likely will get done.

Between you and me I have never displayed a current Rego on my bike. It lives in my pocket, I dont have a holder on the bike, too poor to buy one :innocent:

I have also never been pulled while riding. My fear is that they will start targetting bikes for easy revenue.

I am happy to run the gauntlet ;)

[Katman]

Who gives a fuck how many 'no rego' fines you get?

You refuse to pay the fine and request a defended hearing.

Who cares if you are found guilty at the defended hearing?

You refuse to pay point blank. (It's not like you're up for murder, ffs).

Very soon the court system is gridlocked, ACC has no money coming in, the government are forced to front up across the table and we then get to demand some common sense be introduced into their decision making.

It is the only way we can force the governments hand.

[mashman]

Oh no, bike levies have fallen dramatically, what to do... hmmmm... i know, let's create a new account for motorcycles. But that's just 1 potential outcome.

[YellowDog]

I think we should take the French option.
But I'm pissing in the wind with spineless kiwis
I think that the term 'spineless kiwis' is a little strong!

But the analogy with the French is a good one.

Forget rego costs: Go back a few years and tell the frogs that as the government runs the country like a casino (which Dr Bollard does appear to do) and mortgage interest rates go up to 25%; what would happen.

Riots of the streets and off with their heads; is what the frogs would do.

What did Kiwis do?

Put up and pay up.

It's a cultural thing which has advantages as well as dissadvantages.

ACC is a Rolls Royce type service which is funded by Joe Public.

Seems crazy to me but it does have some strong merits and may be as efficient as many other systems form developed countries (I don't know).

Paying the ACC on your rego 2, 3, 4 or 5 times depending upon how many vehicles you register seems pretty unfair. Particularly as you are only able to drive/ride one at a time and hence the potential exposure liability does not match actual potential for any claim.

FYI: If you crash a vehicle in just about any other developed country in the world, it is the motor insurance company that is reponsible for the liability, injuries, and reparations.

There is no compusory insurance requirement in New Zealand and maybe this might be good start. It seems that a great deal of money is being drained from ACC reserves by uninsured accidents and ACC is being heavily relied on to reduce or remove any need for insurance (like it's a free insurance company).

The fairness for such a system is clear as insuring 5 vehicles to ride only one at a time would be more reasonably priced (IME).

And so far as adding 2.5% to GST; like the proposers of such actually understand the national ramifications of such a change. Yeh right!

I admire those whom staunchly support the founding principals of ACC but there is now a clear disparity with its original design and how it is presently been used. This disparity needs to be addressed in some way. The initial proposals were total madness and IMO thought through by unqualified idiots.

Much needs to change in an attempt to help ACC evolve into something that is better for New Zealand as a whole. I don't know what that will be however what I do know if that our plight and fight is just one small part of a considerably larger picture.

Many changes have been proposed and will be implimented. Surely it would be sensible to take stock at some future time when the actual implications of such changes can be gaged and reported back. I do certainly hope that ACC finds a way of acurately measuring motorcycle road accidents.

So my protesting is over and out. Yes I do think the system is unfair and I am very grateful to those whom have been able to calmly and consisely communicate the issues as we see them. It is very easy to lose control and the plot whilst facing idiots with their heads up their arses that they cannot see the light of day. But that is what politicians are and it takes a great deal of skill and determination to get any kind of message over.

So such efforts have been successful and indeed more successful that I had imagined considering the comments over the French analogy given above.

As Les rightly says, this is only round one. Round two will have some more concrete facts as to the effect of the expensive changed that we are having to endure.

We have now made a start. Prior to this we had not: so I commend those whom have worked so hard and also those whom have shown up when called upon to give support.

If some want to throw their toys out of the pram and ruin the hardwork and alienate the motorcycling community, then I would advise them to think again and consider the negative impact of such behaviour.

Over and out :)

[The Everlasting]

Most likely I won't be paying up,as I currently have three vehicles.

I don't even wanna add up what that will cost under the new levies.:shit:

[What?]

I think we should take the French option.


I assume you are referring to 1789 rather than 1989...

[mikeey01]

Who gives a fuck how many 'no rego' fines you get?

You refuse to pay the fine and request a defended hearing.

Who cares if you are found guilty at the defended hearing?

You refuse to pay point blank. (It's not like you're up for murder, ffs).

Very soon the court system is gridlocked, ACC has no money coming in, the government are forced to front up across the table and we then get to demand some common sense be introduced into their decision making.

It is the only way we can force the governments hand.


Now this makes sense, I like it!

Offer to pay the motor vehicle part only, as you've already paid the acc part on another rego.
This make sense?

[Mr Merde]

I think we should take the French option.
But I'm pissing in the wind with spineless kiwis

The French option.

Storm the Bastile (Beehive), Drag out all the aristos (polititians), execute them. Then start on the governmental beaurocracy behind them.

Oh it would be so right but as you said "spineless kiwis"

What good congregating en masse then going home meekly like the sheep that most NZers are.

Peaceful protest is a joke. It gives the politicos a group they can appease with carefully selected statements then when they disperse they can go about their previously planned way.

Violence achieves results. The greater the violence the greater the achievement.

[Katman]

Violence achieves results. The greater the violence the greater the achievement.

Bullshit.

Try - 'the deeper your grave'.

[Headbanger]

Violence achieves results. The greater the violence the greater the achievement.

So, How did that work out for Uganda?
http://templars.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/uganda3.jpg

[Mr Merde]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasjeff109180.html)To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

[peasea]

So, How did that work out for Uganda?

I think you're splitting hairs.

[Mr Merde]

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasjeff169586.html)

[Headbanger]

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasjeff169586.html)

And do you fear the Government?

[Voltaire]

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasjeff109180.html)To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson


Give up quoting history....:laugh:
Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner.
And he had slave mistresses.
Not much of a role model.
Just another politician looking after number 1.

[Mr Merde]

And do you fear the Government?


Isnt this what all the fuss is about?

We fear that the governmenyt is going to take away our right to equality in ACC, we fear that they are just going to decide that we as bike riders or individuals dont matter in the scheme of things.

We fear that they will set the enforcement wing of the government on us.

We fear that they are going to take more and more from us and give us les and less. Not just in this ACC matter but in all things.

Yes I fear the government because there are no checks and balances placed upon them. If they dcide its whats good for us they just do it. They may have to change "the law " to do it but when has that ever stopped them?

Every three years they play lip service to the masses and hold a sham coloquially known as an election. Once over they just carry on with whatever they wanbt to do.

[Katman]

Let's take the power back.

Don't pay your rego and bring Nick Smith to his knees.

[Mr Merde]

Let's take the power back.

Don't pay your rego and bring Nick Smith to his knees.

Active resistance. Beats the hell out of the passive non effectual talking that has been going on so far.

But bringing Nix Myth to his knees either figuratively or literally is an act of violence. Either way will demean him as a person and seriously damage him emotionally, well this is what the past 20 years of PC bullshit will have us believe

Oh if you dont do as we ask you we are going to have to use harsh words

[Headbanger]

Isnt this what all the fuss is about?

We fear that the governmenyt is going to take away our right to equality in ACC, we fear that they are just going to decide that we as bike riders or individuals dont matter in the scheme of things.

We fear that they will set the enforcement wing of the government on us.


Fuck em, Not paying sorts the issue instantly. I'm not paying them for the right to ride my bike.

And I'll fear the "enforcement wing" when one of them has me in his sites and he's pulling the trigger, In the meantime its no skin off my nose if they want to write tickets, I have an account.


Next they will be expecting me to get a license.....

[Katman]

But bringing Nix Myth to his knees either figuratively or literally is an act of violence. Either way will demean him as a person and seriously damage him emotionally,

And while he's there...........

:whistle:

[Mr Merde]

And while he's there...........

:whistle:

He can kiss my hairy arse

[Katman]

He can kiss my hairy arse

Not quite what I had in mind.

[Mr Merde]

Not quite what I had in mind.


I guessed what you had in mind but I will leave that him to enjoy with someone called "bubba"

[Mr Merde]

Just a thought for you all.

When you assembled in Wellington for the Bikeoi, who appearted with a personal protection squad.

Dont tell me the DPS doesnt go armed.

So to front up to you all he had to have armed guards to protect him.

Who is scared of whom?

[Katman]

Who is scared of whom?

We're only asking that he sits down and talks some sense with us.

I'm not sure they're allowed to shoot you for that.

[Mr Merde]

Give up quoting history....:laugh:
Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner.
And he had slave mistresses.
Not much of a role model.
Just another politician looking after number 1.

Slavery,

The natural state of existance for the majority of humans now or in the past.

We have just changed the name to democracy.

We are slaves to our employer, we are slaves to those who make our rules and govern us, we are slaves to popular ideals.

[Mr Merde]

We're only asking that he sits down and talks some sense with us.

I'm not sure they're allowed to shoot you for that.

Tell that to the family of the young man shot on the Auckland motorway. He was just unlucky to be in the wrong place.

Those who govern can always find ways to legitimise their actions.

Crusher Colloins came to apublic meeting in Papakura re the "super city", she came with a protection squad because she said she had "death threats". Here in NZ amongst the sheeple she had threats and fearewd for her life.

I digress, back to resistance, ACC and Nix Myth.

[avgas]

\A walk around any BOP shopping mall carpark would indicate that the cops don't see rego currency as a priority.
Unfortunately in Auckland we have parking Nazi's who have the power to do this.....and they do it in true SS form and efficiency.

[mikeey01]

Parking nazi's only ever look at month / year.

Don't pay rego and offer to only pay the road user charge, if not accepted.....
scan / copy / edit / print.
The card weight / texture they use is not hard to find and with today printers and puters......

[davereid]

Parking nazi's only ever look at month / year.

Don't pay rego and offer to only pay the road user charge, if not accepted.....
scan / copy / edit / print.
The card weight / texture they use is not hard to find and with today printers and puters......


I'm not going to pay rego, but you are a fucken idiot if you make a false label.

That changes it from not paying the rego, fine $200 to fraud. Fine $100,000 plus 10 years.

[Highlander]

What is the fine for no Rego?

Those that are saying they will put thier rego on hold are counting on getting pinged once, whos to say they wont get pinged 3-4 times during a year?

I can see rego/warrent check points on the increase.

Or even 3 -4 times during a day? I have been out for a two hour ride and been reg / wof checked twice in that time at random stops in different towns that I was passing through.


But bringing Nix Myth to his knees either figuratively or literally is an act of violence. Either way will demean him as a person and seriously damage him emotionally, well this is what the past 20 years of PC bullshit will have us believe

And then he can get ACC cover for Stress related to his job.

For those proposing not paying their Reg, and then not paying the fine either, I guess you are also not planning on heading overseas for your holidays? What about when the courts find against you and send the balif round to your house to collect anything of value to pay your fines? How much are you prepared to pay in order to avoid paying the increase in ACC levy tagged on to you registration?

[mikeey01]

fine $200 to fraud. Fine $100,000 plus 10 years.

Thanks you've answered my question, now I know which of the two is the cheapest!
For the record my rego is legit and will be going on hold when it comes due early next year.

[caseye]

It's been this way for ever - funny how it is a issue now. It is not a Motorcycle only issue as it affects all multi vehicle owners - hell even my trailer rego has a very small ACC content in it - probably due to some motorcyclist cutting a corner and hitting a parked trailer :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

The only way that not paying the additional rego would work is if 90% of motorcyclists did not pay, and then did not pay the associated fines. That would get their attention. A handful of bikers getting fines for unregistered bikes will only add to the Government coffers.

If you want to address the multi-user issue start writing to your MP and Nick Smith and ACC. A letter to Parliament costs nothing to post.

Now this is a good idea, even John Judge said that this was an issue that needed redressing.So get those letters rolling to him and ACC' Insurances CEO and Nick F...ing Smyth.Lets get the ball rolling on this one too.
Once again we motorcyclists are going to take the hit first for the good of the general public.

[Highlander]

Still cant understand how when I go out to the garage and gear up then hop on, umm, umm, umm the RED bike I'm suddenly half the risk I would be if I got in the BLUE one just because it is 400cc as opposed to 1100cc.

I get Registrations sent to me for 3 cars and 3 bikes, some days none of them are being used, other days 5 of them could be being used. I think the only way to attack the multy registration issue is to charge by fuel (which they do as well) or Km travelled (like Diesel road user charges).

[Katman]

For those proposing not paying their Reg, and then not paying the fine either, I guess you are also not planning on heading overseas for your holidays?

If bikers are being fined regularly and are regularly refusing to pay the fine (and the ensuing court imposed ruling) it will only take a matter of weeks before the system is clogged.

Taken to it's conclusion, I envisage the government being forced to sit down and talk sense with us and an amnesty granted for those who have partaken in the civil disobedience.

[Voltaire]

Anyone got John Judges contact details?

I'd like to ask him that if motorists are subsidising motorcycles....what is is called when I have three registered motorcycles and two registered vans and there is only one of me using them.

If it is indeed a personal injury insurance scheme rather than a compensation scheme why am I paying multiple premiums?:argue:

[caseye]

Anyone got John Judges contact details?

I'd like to ask him that if motorists are subsidising motorcycles....what is is called when I have three registered motorcycles and two registered vans and there is only one of me using them.

If it is indeed a personal injury insurance scheme rather than a compensation scheme why am I paying multiple premiums?:argue:

Damn fine question there voli.

[MSTRS]

Not paying rego has a certain appeal. But for it to be effective, it would have to be every single bike. It's a numbers game, after all, and it would take fairly big numbers to 'crash' the system.
Another way would be to put on hold, and stop riding. Every single bike is still in the NZTA system, but not ACC's. After a year of no riding *shudder* their accident stats would 'prove' that bikes are not dangerous anymore and the levy can be reduced to fuckall. Then we can start riding again. The cagers will love the reduced congestion too...
:drool:

[Highlander]

....
Another way would be to put on hold, and stop riding....

Stop Riding? No thanks, I'd rather shove wasps up my arse.

[MSTRS]

Stop Riding? No thanks, I'd rather shove wasps up my arse.

Yea yea...my point was that we can fuck with ACC's income, or we can fuck with the crash stats. It's too much to expect no crashes if we keep riding.
(sorry KM - I know it would ideal if that could happen)

[Katman]

It's too much to expect no crashes if we keep riding.

(sorry KM - I know it would ideal if that could happen)

Won't stop me trying.

:msn-wink:

[Ender EnZed]

The fine is $1,000, it's the 'instant fine' that is $200.

News to me. Could someone expand on how this works? (Assuming courts and such aren't clogged)

[davereid]

News to me. Could someone expand on how this works? (Assuming courts and such aren't clogged)

Instant fines are usually set much lower than the theoretical maximum that the court could impose as a way of encouraging people to pay them without going to court.

[cowpatz]

Perhaps frequently putting the reg on hold for short periods is a way to cause havoc. It will really clog up the system to have the reg on hold for 2 weeks then renewed again for 2 weeks later on and then do it all over again.

[MSTRS]

Perhaps frequently putting the reg on hold for short periods is a way to cause havoc. It will really clog up the system to have the reg on hold for 2 weeks then renewed again for 2 weeks later on and then do it all over again.

3 months is the minimum hold period. Unless there is some fancy form that no-one tells you about.